Maybe your definition of quality time is different than mine. Going over business info is not quality time. It is business time....family business but business nonetheless.

What do you consider t/b quality time? Me cleaning the bathroom while they are watching TV isn't quality time.

L.

Cherished, is there a deadline on this plan? Maybe a set time or date? Just curious...

Jennifer68

Daisy, when you said this, you reminded me of something Dr. Phil said a few weeks ago on Larry King. He said that type of man is the "bait and switch." Meaning during courtship
he romances you like you've never been romanced before, during which he baits you, then you both sign on the marriage line, then he switches. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Lady

I married a "bait and switch" guy. He was so awful on our wedding night that I cried and considered going and sleeping in the car. One of the worst months of my life was the month we got married.

Eight years ago today, he got upset with me and pressed his hands together on top of my forehead. I have very visible lumps there to this day, not as bad as before, but still noticeable.

Orchid, I'm not looking for quality time. I'm just looking for time together alone, and anything that fits that definition will qualify. Working on quality time will be after we attend the MBW this summer.

Jennifer68, the plan is 15 hours together alone. He said he'd go to the MBW this summer. I think that, after that, maybe we can start to work on meeting emotional needs. As for what qualifies, he got upset at me when we went to pick up a child from a birthday party and, when we returned, she fell asleep in the car. I counted the time going to pick her up, when she wasn't in the car, but not the time bringing her back home. I said it's time alone together. He called just now on the way to the airport and we talked about the weather and my plans for the day and the roads. That counts.

Cherished

Okay you win <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...my H waited till the day after the wedding.

It is bait and switch...it is a conscious decision to behave that way. It`s not like your average couple who slowly become bored with one another...it is a conscious premeditated choice to treat your spouse like crap once you have them roped and tied.

But on the upside because it was a conscious choice of my H to mistreat me as soon as he married me he made another deliberate snap decision not to treat me like that anymore after d-day when my bags were packed at the frontdoor.

Cherished you must decide that you H will treat you properly, lovingly, consistently or he won`t treat you AT ALL. That is the only thing that will work IMHO.

Daisy37,

I've made that decision, but it comes in two steps:
1. From now until the MBW this summer, we eliminate neglect.
2. After MBW, we follow the program.

Cherished

Cherished,

Are you still afraid of him?

Yes.

Last week, he said, "If I had a gun, I'd shoot myself." He's been sick all week -- all six of us got sick, but he's been really sick. I think that I have really forced the issue by saying we spend 15 hours per week together or separate. My IC told me she thinks his preferred marriage is a marriage of convenience. I've eliminated that option for him.

Also, I really, really don't understand what is behind how he is acting today. OK, I can appreciate "the fog". You're in love because you were foolish enough to become intimate with another person, and you use all sorts of justifications to decide that what you are doing is OK. I understand that, at least to a certain extent. BUT -- the affair has been over for more than three years. Why is he treating me so badly today and yet not moving out?

Also, eight years ago today, he cracked my skull. I have to deal with that fact every day because there are lumps in my forehead that I try to cover and the thing hurts for a time and then seems to look better. You don't forget that. It was far worse than the broken arm.

Cherished

Cherished,

My sister and I both married substances abusers. There were however a few differences between our H`s. My BIL could not hold down a job and he physically attacked my sister on a few occasions, one time grabbing her by the throat and choking her.

I did not know about the other instances of abuse until the choking incident. My sister called me when my BIL did that. My parents were out of town, they had my sister`s children with them for a vacation. I called my brother who is a lawyer, he was as equally horrified as I was. We both insisted that my sister immeditately go to a woman`s shelter and see a divorce lawyer. My sister did both. And she kicked my BIL out of the house. At first he refused to leave and he threatened her again. My sister picked up the phone and dialed 911. My BIL left.

My brother and I fully expected this to be the end of it. What my BIL had done was SOOOOOOOOO over the top. Totally unacceptable. However my sister decided to allow him back after a few days. My BIL used the children to guilt my sister into allowing him back. My BIL made all kinds of promises. My sister had "hope". My sister gave him "ultimatums".

My BIL never changed. He never physically attacked her again but he did emotionally, verbally and spiritually abuse her FOR ANOTHER TEN YEARS. TEN YEARS!!!!!!!

He never sought any kind of consistent help. For the most part my sister let things slide. She "hoped" he would change....But every so often, almost like clockwork my sister would "decide" that she had had enough and give my BIL another "ultimatum".

They did church based counselling weekend seminars and I remember that after one of those weekends my sister called me very upset and told me that at the end of the seminar the minister had taken a poll of all the participants to see which couple needed the most prayers for the recovery of their M. My sister and BIL were chosen, the group physically lifted up my sister and my BIL and prayed for them.

This insulted my sister to no end. For the life of her she could not figure out why the members of the group felt she and her H needed to be singled out for extra prayers.

I knew why and I told her why.

She didn`t like what I had to say anymore than she liked the extra prayers. These people in that group were basically a bunch of strangers, I was family. We could all see it but she could not.

My BIL also cheated on my sister, my sister never caught him in bed with an OW but all of the signs were there. Hang up phone calls over the years, unknown women answering the phone when my sister *69, my BIL out walking for hours on end with various umarried neighbours and the icing on the cake...when my sister came home unexpectedly from a weekend trip to find wine, candles, and flowers on the table, all prepared by my BIL for one of the unmarried female neighbour "friends" my BIL had invited over for dinner. Yup my sister bought the "friend" explanation.

No wait, that`s not the icing on the cake....the REAL icing on the cake came when an old flame of my BIL`s googled him and found BIL`s e-email. She contacted the address and my nephew answered.

This woman was a real piece of work. She was an evil manipulative alcoholic nutcase. She started chatting with my nephew online. She asked my nephew all kinds of personal probing questions about his mother and his parents M. My nephew was only about 15 at the time and found all this attention from a strange older woman fascinating and exciting. And he spilled his guts. Of course he told my BIL and they both entered into a pact not to tell Mom....because of course Mom would overreact, Mom wouldn`t understand, Mom wouldn`t like it. My BIL got online with her too. A shared activity....quality time with his son don`t you know. My BIL was finally paying attention to his son and my nephew loved it.

Eventually a chat session was accidentally left on the computer and my sister found it. And what she found almost killed her. She read about the sorry state of HER M written by her own son. She saw sexy photos sent by this skank to my BIL and HER SON. She read that this woman was drunk while chatting online and asked my sister`s 15 year old son to sneak upstairs to get a drink too. She read what my nephew wrote to this strange woman "I WISH YOU WERE MY MOTHER"

I cannot imagine anything more heartbreaking for a Mom to read than than that.

And whan confronted my BIL and my nephew stood together. They weren`t doing anything wrong...and my sister`s reaction was all the proof they needed that they were RIGHT to go behind her back. Can you imagine????

My sister was the most wonderful and loving Mom I know. But this caused a rift between my sister and her son that has never healed. My nephew to this day (several years later) thinks his Mom overeacted and is too sensitive. He has never apologized to my knowledge.

I can`t blame my nephew though...he learned from the master.

I am posting this to you Cherished because you need to see how things can take unpredicable twists. I don`t know what will become of you and your children but I am sure it won`t be good unless you put a stop to this.

My sister now experiences overwhelming guilt for not ending the marriage when she FIRST had the chance. Had she ended at anypoint BEFORE this online craziness she may have been able to save her son. But hindsight is 20-20.

My sister finally put an end to the insanity. It was frightening and yes my BIL did go off the deep end. But my sister had a very tight plan worked out and pulled it off successfully. The D was not the hardest part for her, the DECISION was the hardest part. Once the decision was made she stuck to her guns. She now has a beautiful home of her own and lives in peace. She doesn`t have her son back though...he is now grown and has very little to do with her.

Four years ago, when I found out about the A, I told my parents about that and the broken arm from four months prior. My mother's immediate reaction was, "Throw the bum out." I told her a few days ago that she had been right.

This 15 hours per week ultimatum is my last attempt, my very last attempt, at reconciliation, and I'm not even sure it's worth it.

I'm worried about our son. He' 9 now and takes almost cruel pleasure in teasing his sisters. A few weeks ago he told me that he would want to marry someone who agrees with anything he wants.

Thank you for your story. I know that there are worse things than divorce. I have told my mother in law that I think her hurt may have been worse than mine. What I have not told her is that I dread the possibility that I could find out just how hurtful it is to have a son who abuses and cheats on his wife.

Cherished

PS. Harley told me this morning that spending 15 hours per week with someone who seems to be intent on making the time miserable probably won't work. I do realize that. I'm willing to put a few more months into our relationship before calling it quits. My timeline is to endure whatever as long as it is 15 hours per week until the summer MBW and then actually go through the program. He said he'd be willing to go to the weekend if I lost 30 pounds. In the fall, our youngest enters kindergarten. If we cannot make the transition from miserable time together to enjoyable time together, it will be a good time to transition to divorced and working. Either way, I'm better prepared for the future. And I absolutely hate being this fat. I feel like Aunt Marge in one of the Harry Potter movies -- she got blown up like a balloon.

Cherished

Cherished,

Do you think you will be successful with your weightloss if your motivation is "my husband is "making" me do it"?

I went through this with my H. I lost 60lbs. in 5 months but only once I decided to do it for me. This was after d-day and I no longer gave a hoot about my H. I did it for me and because I did it for me my resolve was so much stronger. Rensentment is NOT a good appetite suppressent.

You really must start thinking of yourself, do what`s good for you and maybe, just maybe your H will "Get it" but if he doesn`t it won`t bother you one way or another. You must decide to be happy no matter what your H does or whether or not you remain married. Take care of yourself because no one else will. I learned that the hard way. So did my sister. I remained married, she did not but both of us are happy with how things have turned out once we started caring for ourselves.

The only thing that will lead you (and your children) out of this mess is to care for yourself FIRST.

I thought of my weight loss as doing it for me as well. I lost so much and fast to while on and still am on the low carb diet. I lost a pants size every 4 wks. H did not nitce but I sure did and felt better for it. I figured if things were going to end then at leaset I would feel good about myself. Also not have to buy new clothes for the increased sizes or losses. When Wh did notice I had gone from a size 18 to a 10. That changed him alot. Now as for the abuse do not stand for that at all. It really hurts the children.

Daisy37 and realtor,
I will lose weight for me. Reading up on weight loss programs has given me some insight. I always thought that I gained so much weight so quickly because of the emotional upset. It has occurred to me that there may be another reason -- I stopped exercising, and my taste in food changed. I decided to return to exercise and set a goal of losing 5 pounds, stabilizing for a month, and then losing 5 more. As a result, I'm just losing 5 pounds, but I'm going to do it 12 times.
Cherished

So given Steve's insight, what are your thoughts now about those 15 hours?!?!?! Worth the effort as is?

L.

Orchid,
Actually, it was Dr. Harley's (the father's) view. He provides email support as part of the MB program. We got into the program without attending the weekend, something Dr. Harley no longer offers -- as he told me, in part, because we and a few other couples who selected that option never really got off the ground. Dr. Harley has said that he thinks part of the reason why we never succeeded in following the MB program is we never attended the weekend. I've talked with Dr. Harley a lot -- on the radio and by email -- but Tom hasn't. Now Tom is saying he's willing to attend the weekend if I lose 30 pounds. And I am letting Tom know I cannot stand a marriage of emotional divorce one more day. If he's willing to spend 15 hours per week with me, I'm willing to stick it out to the summer MBW program. We're going to watch a lot of movies together.

This 15 hours per week is really a stopgap measure until we attend the MBW. It's the only way I can continue to tolerate this marriage. Despite all that he has done previously, it really caught me by surprise that he was willing to try to leverage the fact that my parents wanted me to drive the kids two miles away to have a pizza dinner with them three days before my 80 father was having heart bypass surgery with a fatality rate that was "non zero". Something just snapped in me. It seemed so utterly heartless that he would want, in exchange, to take the kids to visit his family 200 miles away for several days -- it's not as if we don't visit them; we've been there three times since the fourth of July. And my parents rarely see us. They live in NJ, they won't see Tom since I told them he broke my arm, and they were in town because we live in the Twin Cities and they were having the surgery done at the Mayo Clinic.

As LM says in his byline, some people just don't get it. Well, I get it. I'm not willing to tolerate it. If he's willing to spend 15 hours per week alone with me, maybe, just maybe, he'll learn some empathy for me.

Thanks for caring, though. I realize it's a long shot. He does seem, right now, to be trying to make our time together at minimum neutral. He's traveling and he told me this morning that travel is making him realize what he has that he doesn't want to lose.

Cherished

Okay, Tom wants a thin beautiful wife. I don't see anything wrong with that. He wants you to look attractive. It's that simple. He thinks if you look more attractive he will be more attracted to you. At least he is honest with you about that. And you have been saying you need to lose weight due to your health.

Lady

Lady,
I don't have any problem with that, either. The funny thing is that I assumed that I ate for emotional reasons. Now I've been reading up on the theory of setpoint -- how people are comfortable with a set amount of fat, but level of exercise can affect setpoint -- and I thought back and realized that my weight gain may have more to do with Tom's complaining about my taking time away from the family to exercise -- so I stopped exercising! This from a guy who worked so hard that he deserved the time to train for and run a marathon!

My weight gain may have more to do with stopping exercising than emotional distress. What's interesting is that I also started eating different things -- my tastes changed radically. I remember craving oatmeal -- I haven't had oatmeal in a long time, and I used to have it routinely for breakfast -- I'm wondering my change in exercise routine led to a change in food tastes led to weight gain -- which is the result of Tom complaining about my taking time to exercise rather than my being emotionally upet and sedating myself with food. I used to think that food was my anti-depressent of choice. Now I think my overeating could be the natural result of not exercising.

So -- I'm back to exercising. Whatever comes of our marriage, I need to be healthy.

Cherished

Oh NO!!! You know I think Tom needs a good kick in the rearender!!!

Oh well, don't feel bad, I need to lose a few sizes myself.
Your helping me get motivated to do it.
I hate excercising. It's too hard!! Why can't we just be skinny without exercising?

Lady

I like to exercise. I just have to value myself enough to take time to do it! I found a great out-of-print book called The Dieter's Dilemma which explained how exercise helps to reset what your body considers to be the ideal weight. Dieting itself is just a way to torture your body.
I tend to think the book is accurate.

Cherished