FH,

I agree entirely. Believe me, if it had not been for the Lord meeting my needs, my marriage would not have survived. My number one need by far is SF. All of the other ones do not even come close. As a matter of fact, if my wife met JUST my SF need and none of the rest, I would be okay. Of course, things would be a lot better if more needs were met also <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! But not meeting SF for me causes my wife to lose HUGE truck loads of love units out of the love bank. I mean bank vault amounts!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I will say it again...I do agree with what you wrote FH. That is the basis of the whole problem. My response to the ladies, though, was one of trying to let them know that they would be better served not denigrating the differences and needs of men...but instead finding a way that they can fulfill those needs.

My wife's number one need is financial security. But, that isnt even close to defining what her need is. for some women, financial security is a roof over their head, and three hot meals. For others, it is having the things they want for themselves and their children. Nice house, nice car, nice schools. Now, of course, the first focus should be on Christ! But beyond that, if I want to know what it will take to fulfill my wife's need of financial security, then I need to research. I need to tal kto her. I need to understand what that means. And then I need to go do it. That is if I want to deposit love units in such a way that it will be accepted by my wife.

On the flip side, my #1 is SF, as I have said before. For my wife to ignore, denigrate, minimize, etc. my need for SF just means that not only is she NOT depositing love units in my bank, but she is also taking out love units by denigrating my needs. Sure, in my case, I turned to the Lord to meet my needs. And He does. But guess who gets no credit or closeness due to her actions? My wife. Because my needs being met were met by Christ...while she contributed nothing to the equation. In that type of environment, then it is true to say "well, I have Christ...what is my wife for? She isnt meeting my needs anyway."

I know the answer to ll of this, FH. what I am trying to do here is to get the ladies to see that men have needs different from them. Shoot, my wife's number three need is SF (one of the reasons I married her...because i wanted someone that wanted sex a much as I did). But you know what? Even though both of our needs for SF are high, hers are different than mine!

Ladies, if you really love your husband and want him to be satisfied with you, then you are going to have to meet his needs in the way that he needs them met. If you dont think you can, then that is where you have to understand that Christ will give you the strength and desire to meet those needs. Just as He gives us men the strength and desire to meet yours.

The attitude of "men are always wrong" permeates this society. You know the jokes!! And with those jokes, there is reality attached to it. And as long as women insist on keeping mens needs and desires penned into "why do you want sex all of the time?", then the problem will remain.

I have a responsibility to love my wife as Christ loves the church. Thus, I do for my wife as Christ would for her. But the Bible also says wives are to respect their husbands...to submit to them, to seduce them, and to surrender to their Biblical roles. When both men and women are doing this, then everyone will find joy in their marriage.

But as long as we denigrate a husband's needs, these problems WILL continue.

In His arms.

MM -

I had to laugh at your post. I'm a neat freak and keep our home spotless. I also am an excellent cook, and always made breakfast, lunch and dinner for my husband. Our home was always a warm and welcoming place.

So I was completely AMAZED, when my husband told me to forget it all, and notch up the sex a bit. I honestly never realized how important it was to him.

I believed I was meeting his needs by having everything perfect, and all he wanted was more rolls in the hay.

Now, if you ask him "Would you like more rolls in the hay AND a great house..." he would of course say yes!!

Men are really NOT that complicated. We are basic in our needs. We are basic in our conversations. Most of us can be figured out in a very short period of time. That isnt to say we are shallow...just that our needs are much more basic.

Our house could be a total mess (except those men with OCD <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />) and we could willingly go at it with our wives. That is how important SF is.

I hope you have learned somethign there Believer. We husbands really do desire our wives. women spend a lot of money and time making themselves look good. we do appreciate it. so much so, that we not only desire you to hang out with us, talk with us, build a life with us...but also to get down and dirty with us.

Why any woman would turn that down, it amazes me! I mean, for at least one man on this earth, you are the end-all-be-all of women, of our sexual fantasies. Please dont squash that. You just might find a guy with a remote in his hand and not caring less on how you look...or maybe even worse.

In His arms.

What happens when you find out your guy has been pleasing himself using visuals of models you can never compare to or females he knows and you find this out after years of being together. And only because now he can't get real excited with his spouse or has issues finishing however at the mention of other females name can get very excited.

I have a hard time understanding how men can have daughters....and then look at pornography.....

I don't think I can understand that....

who would wish upon their daughter a life in the pornographic industry?

ARK^^

Good question!! What he has become addicted to is the porn. When I was using porn, it never reached this stage (but it probably could have with more time). I still wanted to be with my wife...MUCH more than looking at these other women.

But, once it becomes an addiction, it is just like what the WS feels for the OP.

So, my question back to you is...what does Dr. Harley say about the WS being addicted to the OP? How can a WS stop being addicted to the OP?

Well of course, the first thing is to get away from the OP. So, the first thing for your husband to do is to stay away from porno forever.

The next thing is to get over withdrawal. And finally, it is for your husband to allow you to meet his needs. And that will take time.

I dont know your whole story. But if you guys would do this...your husband leave porno alone forever, go thru the withdrawal period, and you meet his SF needs the way he needs them met...I think you will find a man that will come out of this very much desiring you!! Much more than the ari brushed models!

In His arms.

Oh, that was another huge wake-up call for me. it was having a daughter and watching her grow up. Mine is almost 12. In just a few years, she would be old enough to participate in all of that stuff. I cant think of anything that worries me more. The thought of one day opening a magazine and seeing my daughter there...that is a nightmare!

Good point Ark.

In His arms.

Mortarman,
Spouse says he doesn't look at porn, just the regular type of movies people would watch that has sexy women in them, or super models. He says he hasn't done it in awhile. He is dealing with some guilt as to past behavior, now realizes dinner out with other woman was indeed dating, that possibly pursuing her for sex but says it never got to the touching stage at all. He now says he feels very guilty over past behavior and this is one of those behaviors he is admitting to. He has become very angry with dealing with all of this. Feels the guilt is why he can't accomplish anything with me. Swears there was never any PA. I've wanted him more before he ever had the problems with desiring me. Says he used to be able to just think of us being together and he would get stimulated now he has a hard time with that. But just talking about certain females from his past and he has no issue.

Then it is time for a heart to heart talk without love busters with your guy.

Keep in mind that the same thing happens to beautiful married women who would have no problem attracting other men, so don't fall into the beleif that it only happens to less attractive women. Porn viewing, like an affair, drug addiction or alcholism, is many times [not always] an escape from a reality. Castigating the man solves nothing and further exacerbates the problem. If both H and W approach the problem without love busters, and commit themselves to improve their sexual lives, then there is a good chance that porn viewing [BTW a love buster combo of independent behavior and dishonesty] can become a thing of the past.

My W and I like to play games to spice up our sex life. One of them is acting as though one of us is a secret admirer that expresses a burning desire to know the other very intimately. We sometimes call each other at work [on our cell phones of course] and if we are not too busy, we continue our little game of seduction. By the time we get home, we are so hot for one another that we have the most incredible, mind-boggling sex sessions imaginable.

My point is that if a couple makes the committment to improve their sex life, then there is going to be less of a desire on the part of the man to engage in porn viewing which will be viewed for what it is, an extremely destructive, and sterile activity.

TMCM

You two have other current issues in front of you...those other females offer no downside. Do you understand what I mean?

My wife and I are still not back to where we were sexually (or even where I need to be). There are times I do not want to be with her.That she actually disgusts me. Why? Because what I saw with her and OM. It happens less now...but still happens. Same thing goes for her. She has a hard time getting over the guilt...and over some of the things I have done that cause her to distrust me. Which weighs heavily on the libido!!

It takes time and a whole lot of effort. Iask my wife to understand when I feel that way. To just let me work thru it. That maybe we can try tomorrow.

You and your husband are going to have to make a conscious effort toward rebuilding intimacy. It will take BOTH of you. it can happen, but it will take time.

Those women are the EASY way out. But anything easy aint worth much. I figure, if my wife and I work hard and get thru this...the sex should turn out to be pretty AWESOME! And will be worth all of the effort!

In His arms.

Thank you TMCM:
I need hope and you have given me that. My spouse has told me he thought we have had great sex at times. He didn't start having issues with our sex life till he spent time with another female about five years ago. Swears no PA however is carrying huge guilt for the thoughts he had. His difficulties didn't start till the past couple months and I had tried to become more spicy per se. It's always been hard for me do to (abuse when I was young) however I had realized about five years ago that I wasn't giving what I should. I just feel hopeless at this point.

Thank you Mortarman:
I saw you were military, mine also. Do you feel that that contributes to guys using the visual aids more? My spouse always told me he used me up until recently when he told me that was not true.

The key there is "meeting his SF needs the way he needs them met". That includes quantity, quality and variety <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I've turned to porn a few times, but only because my FWW was unwilling at the time to meet one or more of those three requirements. It's not something I'm happy about, but the only other option is to go outside the M for SF, and I'm not inclined to do that.

I would say that post D-Day we have become more vocal about our SF needs and it's helping a little.

Have you ever looked into the abuse being part of your SF problem in your marriage. If not, I would suggest you get some counseling. It may be blocking you from allowing your husband the level of intimacy you both need for you to be able to be what he needs.


Oh, porn is everywhere in the military. Guys use it to pass the time when away from their gals. My last deployment (when my wife's affair started), I took naked pictures of my wife with me. And you know what? That was enough. The guys over there that didnt really partake were usually the guys that had outlets like that. Their wife would send pictures or videos. Or letters laced with sex talk. These things helped the husband a) he had a visual outlet for himself; and b) she had shown that his needs were important to her. Thus, no need to stray...no need or porno.

The military environment is ripe for porno because we are forced to be away from our gals for long periods of time. The best marriages have found a way to overcome that. Those are the models that everyone should copy, whether in the military or not.

In His arms.

Ok,let's debate more MM.



Yes I have heard about this.I don't know how true it is but if I had to make an educated "guess" I would think it to be accurate.Hence my statement about the other planet of sole purpose.I honestly do not think I know or have ever known a woman that could face that stat and not roll her eyes.Not in a demeaning way but if there is any expectation to have sex that frequent it just aint gonna happen.It's one thing to think about it just for fun but not being a man,I will just say that I would not want to preoccupied,for lack of a better term,with one act all day long.Including conversation.It's overkill.And it's also another thing to have to deal with a man who has a high sexual drive in her life.It would be exhausting to me mentally and physically.


I agree it's not "bad" just exhausting to think about.



I don't think it's wrong that men are like this but rather I just feel it can be a problem for couples and it has been.I can't change the male gender of course but how would I deal with this is the question.I wouldn't expect a man to converse with me in inordinate amount of time anymore than I would want to be expected to have sex every single day.Like I said,there should be some balance and that is the only way I see handling a man,in *my life,who has a high sex drive.I love sex too and would love to have it 2-3 times per week but more than that and we have a problem.POJA? With all the other things that goes on in ones life sex is important but there has to be room and time for all of it.Sex isn't as important to me as it may be for some men but it is important on some level and I guess the trick is finding someone who is willing to compromise to where we both feel good about the frequency.


Agreed.I didn't mean to imply it's only for procreation,certainly not.But,along with sex,I find there to be many other pleasures in life I want to experience.



There you go blaming the woman again.I am talking about the usage of porn with the male sex drive.If it's so "high" and men are finding that they need to go out an use porn to get "release" or for whatever other need then that is the issue.If some men really are that weak and cannot control their urges,as we all have,and goes out to seek the next prostitute on the corner or porn rag then that is HIS fault and wrong choice to handle such matters.



That is great that you found your W desirable even thru pregnancy and afterward.What I am saying is,what are women to do to keep men enticed,if they have done the best they can and more,even going under the knife to secure some sort if false image about attractiveness,and their husband just isn't engaging since the porn mag is around.In my case,I was the same size as I was in HS,never looked better in fact if I do say so myself.I feel like I am one of those women that gets better looking with age rather than older looking but that didn't "keep my H from straying".Why? Because it was HIS problem.It had nothing to do with me and how attractive I was/am.If men are all visual then those who marry "supermodels" would never divorce.It's just not the case.If what is needed is graphic pictorials and what I call,disgusting poses that are degrading to a woman then again,there is a problem.



Agreed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I threw that idea in there for those few that do use it and argue that it can enhance a marriage,blah,blah,blah. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


I agree but it is my understanding that many more men use this form of sexual stimulation than women.Sure some women use it too but if you could find me one woman that was addicted to it and her marriage was failing because of it and her husband was not in agreement with it then I would like to talk to her.



Agreed again but porn is not one and that was the crux of this thread to me.And what was intially brought to our attention by the poster.

Ok,on to the next.Thank you for your discussion MM.

O

No porno woman can ever compare to a sexually enthusiastic W, ever.

TMCM
[dirty ol' caffeinated sexy bast**d <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ]

I am envious. Not necessarily that you have a great sex life, but that you have so much time to devote to it. Yes, both me and my W would just love to spend lazy weekends in bed, just like we did in grad school. For better or for worse, we just don’t have time to waste playing games. Two 1-hr love-making sessions is about what we can afford to squeeze into our schedules. We are not willing to give up sleep, or work, or activities with the kids, or church, or housework, or remodeling, etc.. Our schedules overlap about 4 hrs per week (her and me alone); if we were to devote as much time as I’d like to making love to my wife, there would simply be no time to spend with her on anything else. We really to spend time together besides having sex. It thus makes sense that we devote only about half that time to sex, and other to other activities.

Use of porn is simply a time saver (10 min vs. 1 hr.) which I can use on my schedule, and do not have to coordinate with W. It simply makes sense for us.

And yes, if I could take a pill so that I drastically lower my sex drive so that I don’t have to spend any time on sex, and I’d have more time for other activities, I’d take it.

TMCM,

I couldn't have said this better myself and it touches on how many women *I* know feel.It's a slippery slope that many of us are on now and it is what is helping to shape the landscapes of our relationships.



This is how I see it.Porn images are not **REAL.They are 2-dimensional pages that cannot interact,don't have feelings,don't talk back,don't disagree,don't express feeling,don't move or laugh or love,etc.How can you compare?? This is why IMO many women feel so disgusted with porn.How can a man you love want to be with these images and not the real life woman right there in their lives? It's painful and confusing.

So what happens? Women PULL AWAY.They start to disconnect emotionally and physically.It's like the chicken or the egg.What happened first? IMO it's the invention of this smut that has ALWAYS interferred with couples.And what is just as sad and maddening is the women who do these things that does a HUGE disservice to the rest of our sisterhood.The madonna/****** complex is alive and well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

** A WOMENS SEXUALITY IS BETWEEN HER EARS NOT HER LEGS**

If there is a women pulling away sexually in a relationship,you can bet your bottom dollar it is one of several issues such as not feeling respected,secure,safe,loved.Same could be said for men but the age old question of why women seem to not be interested in sex,aside from the daily issues of kids,work,household duties,etc,is that she is not feeling good about the man she is with and his attitude toward her and she will NOT have sex and be close with a man if she is not feeling good about that relationship.

It's not a punishment but rather a feeling of how can I be expected to have sex if I am not respected ?,etc.Porn is probably at the top of my list as a reason why not to be close to the mean I was with.Also,the difference between men and women IMO is that a woman cannot just "do it" anytime and anywhere as men *may feel they can but rather,a woman has to feel good about most aspects in her life to be comfortable about being close.Porn wrecks that security.



Agreed and is very important.Porn MUST NOT be anywhere near a marriage.It is sacred and deserves protection.

O

I am sorry for what you went through but I will keep saying this as long as I am here: NO ONE else can make you happy.If you are not fulfilled in your life as an *individual,then you will seek answers elsewhere and in inappropriate ways.



I disagree with you IHE.It SHOULD be a shock to everyone that porn is still being used.We have become somewhat desensitized to it so it still exists and it will always plague relationships as long as it is being used.Self control is a lost art I think.We are in an age of entitlement and self gratification of tremendous rapid proportions.

If my WH was not meeting my need for FS then I would not run out and rob a bank or steal from someone else just to have money and expect people not be shocked.Bad behavior is bad behavior.Maybe someone could understand why I did what I did but it doesn't make it right.

If men truly feel that they express their love for their W/GF/SO thru sex then that is good but there also has to be other ways too that a W can feel good about.A balance is needed,for women too.I wouldn't want my H to only hear about my love for him thru conversation either.

Just typing all this makes me feel even more sure that so much more is needed to help couples understand eachother thru education about love,marriage and needs,etc.It shouldn't just be after there are problems identified."On the job training" doesn't seem to be working very well for many marriages.

O

Well,AG,in reality they don't,usually.But talking about such high sex drives and needs is difficult.Porn was the main aspect I wanted to address and why men think they need it due to high sex drives or desires.In a way I do think high sex drives are a curse,almost like an "addiction".Same could be said for women.

I would love to meet the SF needs of the one I loved.But what is the limit that that *particular couple is comfortable with? Same to be said for conversation,recreational activity,etc.I would not expect nor want my WH to feel he had to talk non stop all day to me.And,at least in my world,the planet EARTH is where we women all do the talking,we gripe about you MEN! LOL.

All I am saying is,when I read about porn and sex drives and all the problems going on here,in my circle of friends and elsewhere,it just seems to me that the balance isn't there.Life is out of balance,porn has taken hold of so many and I truly do think it encourages more and more young men to keep upping the ante: start using porn,then more is needed to get "off",usage increases,more graphic pictorials are used,it the whole problem snowballs until what a *normal relationship is like with a woman is blurred.Disrespect and a skewed vision of women inhabits the minds of thoise who view it.Not all but many,especially if there is no one there to say,"this is wrong".

I can't tell you the difference I notice now for men than years and years ago when I had several male friends.I feel like a piece of meat walking down the street.It's become so bad that I carry mace around with me at all times now and I live in the country! I don't feel safe with all the eyes upon me and now my older daughter who is very beautiful.I am scared for her and the evil in men's minds and the sexual nature.

Chivalry is all but dead IMO.

O

Ha! We both have full time jobs plus I have 2 teenage daughters from my first M that live with us and who still require my parental supervision. We also have housework, church, gym, etc. yet we make a committment to each other to make time for US.


You could try chemical castration. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />