Exactly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
L.

And he has reaped.

As I said before,if one innocent human being is put to death and it was a mistake(via DNA or whatever) then capital punishment for crimes I am against.Unless you can be 100% about someone being proven guilty then I don't think we as a society have the right to do this when we have the control.

Now,I agree with you FH.If someone was harming my children or tried to kill me then I might just have to kill first.Self defense and protecting my daughters is not in argument for me.

And I don't believe anyone here is not in agreement that what happens to the poor victims is anything but heinous.It's the way in which we handle these criminals that is important.For many,especially those who commit murder,they no longer have any rights in my view.So,lock them in a cell to think about what they did,every day, *without the "luxuries" of weights to train,TV,activity outdoors,etc.I'll use my tax dollars to keep them there but not to live a simple life and have privaleges.

However,there was an interesting book that I read called,"Going Up The River: Travels in a Prison Nation" by Joseph T. Hallinan.He basically goes on tour of the prisons in our country and what it is like for workers and prisoners.It's not pretty and many of these incarcerated people do go insane and are not living a decent life( of course we want them not to after their atrocious crimes).Some of the maximum security prisons are designed to break these people down and that's exactly what they do.What is left can hardly be viewed as "human" in some cases.


Well we disgaree on that and as I said before,no one will make me carry to term the unborn child of a rapist or family member.

O

I guess everyone's sense of justice is statisfied today...

The problem I am having with this thread is the 'smart alecky'

BUH-BYE in the topic title.

If Tookie has repented and asked forgiven, he will be in heaven with other believers.
Keep in mind that Paul in the Bible was Saul: a pursuer and killer of Christians.
After he was born again, he became one of the greatest Evangelists ever known and has written much in the Bible. (Through God's divine inspiration.)

I guess the bottom line is, although God blots out our sins as if they never happened (when we repent and ask forgiveness) we still have to pay the price in this world and for Tookie the price was the death penalty.

Some of us have to pay the price of broken marriages and broken homes even after we have 'reformed'. Others pay different prices; some of us have been forgiven through the precious grace of our spouses.

Edited to correct the spelling of 'smart alecky'.
(I had to look it up in the dictionary.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I guess you were never a stewardess for a major airline....

Thanks for the criticism of my vernacular .... which is innocent until proven guilty <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

The law was carried out.

Whether or not we think the law is morally upright, is subjective to personal opinion.

JL, I believe the jury considered the tapes and testimony of Amber Fry as evidence. Not just of an EMA, but of EMA and Scott's desire to rid himself of a marriage he no longer wanted to get into a relationship with his affair partner. (Whom he knew would not be with him if he were honest about his being married.)

As to Robert Blake - I can't believe he got off.

And what will the people think one day when life is proven to be at conception (if it is)...and these people have killed, living innocent human beings? How will the Pro-abortion people think then?

In His arms.

me either ... but he was found "responsible" in the civil trial

Let me use yourwords then on the other side of the coin...
Works both ways, me thinks.


But abortion for these reasons happens a minority of the time. What about the other 90+% of the time when it is just for convenience?

In His arms.

It seems to me that pro-life people can come up with all kinds of exceptions to kill people (e.g., war on terrorism, war in Iraq, death penalty, death penalty for kids) and yet still say with a straight face that life is sacred.

In reality, it seems that the real standard is "cuteness". A fetus, being inately cute, has the highest protection, and should not be killed in any circumstances, even if the fetus may kill the mother. Babies also should not be killed. Their life is sacred.

At 13 years old, a person becomes less cute, and therefore his/her life is only "somewhat" sacred. Under certain situations, if the 13 year old does something heinous enough, he/she can be killed.

At 18 years old, boys and men are marginally cute; thus, their life is only marginally sacred. They can be sent to die due to clerical errors. I.e, they can be sent to die in Iraq to "protect the US from terrorists" even though there was no link between Iraq and terrorists as well as to "protect the US from weapons of mass destruction" even though there are no WMDs. ("Whoops...sorry about the 2000 men. NOTE TO SELF: Read those footnotes in the CIA report next time...")

If people are not US citizens, not white and not Christian, they are by definition not cute. Thus, killing 30,000 of them for the same clerical error is barely worth mentioning.

By the time a person is 50 year olds, they can be put to death simply because we can do it. There is no need for a nexus or even a suggestion of a nexus between their death and any societal good. We can do it simply when 12 people get p*ssed off enough to have someone killed.

*FOR FUN: Get a pro-lifer to give the "what would Jesus do" speech about abortion, and then ask them whether that standard should apply to the death penalty. Suddenly, it becomes a "what would Rush Limbaugh do" speech.

*FOR MORE FUN: Get a pro-choice person to give the "woman should have reproductive control" speech, and then have them explain why a confessed raping murderer should not die but a six month old fetus should.

I become more appreciative of the Catholic Church's stance on abortion, the death penalty and war every day. Perhaps they really are onto something in Rome.

AMEN TO YOU, JIMMY MACK!!!

This is exactly my opinion on this...I'm with you....

Jimmy Mac wrote: “The Catholic Church's stance on abortion and the death penalty is consistent and moral--they oppose both.”

This is true, with a notable exception regarding the death penalty.

A society that is not able to protect itself is morally able to use the death penalty in certain cases. An example given is martial law during civil strife or war. Some third world countries without adequately evolved government institutions to protect citizens are justified in using the death penalty in extreme situations. This is analogous to the right, even the duty, to use deadly force to protect your own or someone else’s life in an extreme situation.

But a developed society with the ability to protect its citizens (i.e. a functioning justice system with rule of law and working prisons and an honest police) has no need for the death penalty.

Reference: http://www.americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0195.asp


With prayers, for the condemned and their victims everywhere,

My H and I have been talking about converting to Catholicism, BTW.....

mimi1254
"My H and I have been talking about converting to Catholicism, BTW...."

WHY????????

Happy...

It's a LONG STORY about the Catholicism thing...

Has a lot to do with the BELIEFS shared by JIMMY MACK....

We are talking about a number of different ways, though, of beginning to share our FAITH with OTHERs...

Religious issues having to do with our prior church were associated with my H's crisis prior to his A...

Mimi - why? From what? Perhaps on another thread or via email.

No, a pro-life would know that Jesus and the Bible authorize capital punishment. A true pro-lifer would be for the saving of innocent lives...not the targeting of innocent lives for death.

That is what is the difference between a terrorist and a soldier. A soldier targets bad guys and sometimes accidentally hits innocent by standers. A terrorist targets the innocent (which is why we in the military say to terrorists "Leave the people alone...come take us on!" But alas, they are cowards and will not.)

That is the difference between a police officer and Tookie Williams. A police officer, when he has to shoot, targets the bad guy...the guilty. And sometimes he might hit an innocent by stander by accident. Tookie? He targeted innocent people. And again, military and police officers say to Tookie and his ilk "Leave the innocent alone. Come take us on instead." But alas, they will not because they too are cowards.

The issue isnt cuteness. It is guilt or innocence. I respect a person who says they are against the death penalty. I do. What I dont respect is a person that says they are against the death penalty, but would allow for the woman's right to kill an innocent human who had no choice but to be conceived.

My prolife position is consistent. Save innocent lives. Take guilty lives. And, as a Christian, that is a very Biblical stance. It is what Jesus would do...and will do when He comes again.

In His arms.

Where is it stated that Jesus AUTHORIZES capital punishment?