Because that question did not come to my mind. If you don't like the question I asked, why did you bother to respond?

Oh Great,

Two of the people I respect most on this board arguing symmantics over a marriage that no one thinks should have taken place. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Ok, you two let's argue "world peace". Is it good for mankind to have "world peace"? Answer carefully you will be graded. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

God Bless BOTH of you.

JL

JL...you're crackin me up chere!


I couldn't have put it better.

Pep....some contracts are legal and binding, and some are not....but they are still both contracts. Did you notice that you had to but the word "marriage" in your question about marriage? "Do illegal marriages fall under your definition of marriage." The answer is that they fall under my definition of illegal marriages. I could just as easily ask "Is an abusive marriage still a marriage?" And the answer would be "yes, a really crummy unhealthy one". "Is a woman-child marriage still a marriage?" "Yes, a horrifying one. Yes, one that should never be legal to take place and I can't believe it did!" But if your question is really a philosophical one: "Robin, do YOU (personally) recognize this as a healthy, honest, real and true marriage?" Then the answer is "No, of course I don't (and you SO know this), and any help I might try to give would be geared to pointing these people towards treatment and protecting this child." I don't consider it "beneath me" to do what little I can to point out the problems inherent in a situation like this in a logical and compassionate way IF I'm given the opportunity to do that. (which by the way is about as likely as being hit by lightning)


Aw come on chere....let's cut to the chase shall we? Anybody with half a brain whose even "kinda" paying attention knows what this question is really about. You know why I answered. This couple is going to come to MB when he11 freezes over.....answering the question was never the point. People can call me lots of names....but stupid is not going to be one of them.

??? because the topic is of interest to you ???

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

this was nice ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here's the deal about my personality JL ... When anyone tells me what I ought to be talking about when I am already discussing what is of interest to me ... I start to feel that I am being censored ... and I do not like that.

Now on to "world peace" ... or, as I like to call it "whirled peas" ... is this "peas" at any price? or is it a POJA style peas? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And this could be the exact "help" I would give to this M. What I meant in my post, is that if someone came here seeking guidance, I wouldn't just ignore them ~ or "flame" or shame them. I would treat them with kindness and compassion.

Guilt and shame only create temporary change, IMO. Kindness, compassion, listening to what someone is thinking and feeling, frees them up to make wise choices ~ choices they can feel good about.

I'm not happy about their M, I don't think it should have happened. But, it did. Where do they go from there, is the question. Change the laws, arrest the woman ~ those are not within my control. But if they came here, seeking aide, that is within my control.

Spidey

they already did this .... both made choices and there is NOTHING written (so far) that says they don't "feel good" about their choices.

The adult defends her choice to molest then marry a boy. She feels very good about her choices.

The absence of guilt and shame in someone's personality make-up allows psychopathic behavior.

Clearly, the inspiration for "political correctness" is to prevent people from feeling offended ... even by truth.

Politically correct-tyrany is all I can call it when we are advised: "Don't label a woman who molests a boy as a 'child molester' ... because it might hurt her feelings."

If NAMBLA members/supporters began to post on MB ... are we to hold our tongues and not say that they are child abusers?

I'm sure NAMBLA members would prefer to be called "boy-lovers" and not child molesters.
Well, excuse me ... I refuse to be muzzled by political correctness .... What do you say to a child molester ...

"You are making bad choices."

They say "I am making loving choices."

They ARE child molesters ... and they ought to be called CHILD MOLESTERS ....

To deny a child molester the proper label is to deny the child their status as a VICTIM.

I prefer my feet in the child's camp, even if I have to offend the molester.

Pepperband, I am not saying that I condone what she did, or that I think it was a good idea. Nor am I being politically correct.

All of us here know that feelings change. We have all witnessed this happen over and over. Often, when someone feels free to explore their feelings, they realize that what they thought they felt, isn't really what they were feeling at all. Which frees them up to make different choices.

My experience is that when someone must feel they have to defend their feelings, they tend to dig in their heals about those feelings, and they won't budge ~ it then becomes a power struggle ~ they become more "stuck."

Spidey

I don't care one whit about changing someone's feelings.

I can feel murderous ... and as long as I don't murder ... then these feelings belong to me.

But once I do murder ... my feelings are no longer important ... my deeds have defined my fate, NOT MY FEELINGS.

If I ever murder someone, please label me as a murderess Spidey. I would greatly appreciate that factual and honest label.

If I ever molest a child, please CLEARLY label me a child molester ... because if you don't .... then the person I murdered lacks a murderer .... and the child I molested has no molester.

Thanks

I know that you "help" WS's that come here, even though you don't approve of their actions. And I have read you tell them things they don't want to hear, but I have also read where you asked them pertinent questions about their actions, and their feelings ~ questions that provoked self-exploration and insight.

I don't know why you do these things, like helping WS's who are still lost in the fog. Maybe you do it to "help" the BS who is heartbroken. Maybe you would help this 14 year old boy by guiding this woman through her confused feelings, so that she could come out the other side.

You see Star*

What you said here, is very offensive to me ...

Because without naming a perpetrator, you have no victim.

Label her correctly. She is what she is.

She is likely a psychopath ... and will remain so unless she is introduced to shame and guilt. But you say that she should not be introduced to shame or guilt.

I think that is "feather pluckin' insane" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Folks,

I think Pep is really saying something different than you are hearing. If you would indulge me a moment perhaps I can offer a slightly different way to express what I think Pep is saying and asking.

I have been here a long time. I have posted to WS's and BS's and frankly some of my harshest posts are to BS's. But, I never post to someone I feel cannot be helped or who's views seem to be so divergent that I feel we have no common ground. It is a waste of time.

This woman's view of children, and yes a 13 or 14 year old boy is a child emotionally if not physically, is so out of whack that NOTHING I could say would affect her. I feel the same way about males that pray on children male or female.

These people lack some intrinsic human qualities that most of us have and so it is virtually impossible to appeal to these qualities...they don't exist. Only skilled, careful and deep psychiatric care MIGHT help, but child molesters are KNOWN to be the most difficult to affect.

Pep has labeled this woman a child molester. I agree. You may not. If you do agree with that assessment, then there is NOTHING here at MB that could possibly help. If you do not than you might feel you could help.

I agree with Pep, she is a child molester. She has harmed this boy more than most realize but the harm is very likely not as obvious as when a male molests a female child. I have no doubt that the boy loves this woman right now. I have no doubt that young girls can fall "in love" with a older adult male. Frankly it is this fact, that made child molestation laws necessary. The ability feel and physically respond preceeds the ability to think and understand by many years.

My answer is NO I would not try to help them other than to post telling her to seek counseling and turn herself in to the authorities.

Does this make sense?

JL

JL it sure does. If she were a he and he were a she, it would be big a time jail sentence.

Thanks JL ... you pretty much captured my point very eloquently.

Pep,

I had the help of your thoughts and guidance. You are really good, you know?

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Your post makes perfect sense in the context if your understanding....and you're a doll for trying. Thank you so much.

I think Pep is really saying something different than you are hearing.

And I think Pep is really saying something entirely different altogether. I'd like to link the thread that might help you understand, but I can't find it....and it was huge...oops...got removed...oh well.

JL....you're a gentleman, but this thread is not a good example of Pep's normally direct and honest style (because if it were, it would probably disappear too.)

no Star*, you are incorrect ... JL has summarised my topic very well