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Joined: Nov 2004
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Tom,

Yes you sounded VERY disrectfully sarcastic in your reply. I’m not sure if you are trying to help or hurt. I will assume the best and thank you for your attempt to help.

Capt,

Not sure how to answer your question. FWH means Former Wayward Husband, right? We are still married. Maybe you can click on my name to get some background info as to what bought me to MB in the first place. You probably will find the answer to your question there. I haven’t done a lot of posting so it shouldn’t be too tedious.


Me(36)FS
H(36)WS
D's - 3 mos,2 & 15
Married 8/04
DDay 12/04 Him
Joined: Nov 2004
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BJS,
Thank you soooo much for responding. You hit it on the money. I’m going to discuss this post with my H. Hopefully we can learn from your mistakes and get on the right path to “organizing” (as ARK put it) our home. Right now I don’t have a lot of resentment about my H being gone and b/c before we got married I was use to taking care of everything on my own. Honestly, for me the since I don’t have to work and my H gives me full control of our money that it sort of balances itself out for me. In otherwords, I’m ok with handling everything while he is gone, since I don’t have to worry about the financial side of things.

Where it seems our guys get to leave for months and focus totally on their job and then get time off in port. The wife does not get that unless she makes it a priority YES, this is what I’m talking about. Even when he isn’t gone on a 6mos deployment and it’s just 1 wk. I don’t and now that I think about it. My H makes me feel guilty, not intentionally, about wanting to get away by myself. He can understand being away from the children, but not him.

We both have done pretty good with prioritizing in our family. God, spouse, children…(let me add for those who will take what I’m saying out of context…with everything there is a balance, for example, when I fix our dinner plates I always fix the youngest plate first, sometimes I even sit down and feed her. My H can fix his own plate and feed himself).

After years and years I realize I was demeaning my spouse and sending him a signal that he was less to me because of that. If you leave your kids with your husband on several occasions what is the worst thing that could happen?

Great advice!!!! I will start immediately letting go more. I do trust him and with pratice comes perfection.

Set up chores for your other kids. I also fought this one with my spouse. Not sure why other than I thought I was a SAHM I should be doing it all. However it is teaching my daughters to be responsible. Have them take the clothes out of the dryer and find their own clothes and put them up. Give them things to do, you will get a lot of grief from it but I have found that just having them do some of those things frees me up to do other things.

I could write a book on this one. For many, many different reasons I majorily contributed to my D(15) irresponsibility. On one hand we are both paying the price now, and the other we are making up for lost time in this area. So with the 2 yo I’m am doing things totally different.

Something that my H does that we don’t see eye to eye on and that is how much responsibility should we give the 15 yo, especially when it comes to taking care of the little ones. In one of the earlier post someone else bought this issue up. Our 15 yo NEVER like kids, she never wanted to babysit, she has always said since I could remember that she never wanted children. She was an only child for many yrs which probably contributed to her attitude. So to spend 5 minutes playing with the 2 yo or taking her to the park to play, is more like a chore to her or as she puts it punishment. My H has to remember that the little ones are our children not hers.

I want to comment more on this but I will have to do it later. Thanks.


Me(36)FS
H(36)WS
D's - 3 mos,2 & 15
Married 8/04
DDay 12/04 Him
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Not going to comment anymore about your "predicament." You have recieved excellent advice here. But you don't seem to want to accept it. From Arc to Camo to Grapegirl and Frozen, all of them gave great insight and active advice. You seem to keep wanting to restate your concern trying to get a different answer.

Now about your 15y/o daughter. I have to disagree. She is going to have a hard time learning strong family principals if you are not asking her to do things because, "she don't like it" or because, she was an only child and doesn't want to play with her step sisters. Not wanting to be a baby sitter is one thing, but being a big sister is not the same thing.

Also saying that the little ones are not her responsiblity .... I think all children have a responsiblity to the family commisurate to their age and abilities. Each child participates in the benefits of being a part of your family, when they can contribute they should. That quite frankly is what makes a family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

There are other things she can do besides watch the babies. She can clean, she can help cook, she can collect laundry and fold her own clothes.

I'm sure she is wanting allowance, and learning to drive, and cool clothes. The family provides that and she should contribute.

I am glad you are straightening that out with her, she will be a better person for it.

Quote
My H has to remember that the little ones are our children not hers.


This is a bit out there, but if the little ones are not her responsiblity because they are only step sisters, does that mean you H has no responsiblity to your other 2 children?

You are all one family now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Tom Joad; 01/05/06 07:00 PM.

. I walk the recovery path too, ... but I walk alone. HOW 'BOUT THEM STEELERS! . I've finally realized now, that you just have to keep breathing. Tomorrow the sun will rise, and who knows what the tide will bring. Tom Hanks (Castaway, 2000)
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White dove,

I'm glad to hear you sounding upbeat and positive. I am equally as impressed with the way you have chosen to address Tom's post. I sometimes have difficulty with taking some things very personal, so I admire your methods.

POJA is The Policy of Joint Agreement. It is the meat of Marriage Builder's principles, so if you haven't heard the term, it would probably be extremely beneficial in aiding your H and yourself in coming to a resolution on a system regarding domestic support, not to mention in almost every other aspect of your marriage.

The Policy of Joint Agreement states:
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse...

Here is a link for additional reading...

POJA

POJA is about negotiating. When Patriot and I first read it, we actually thought we were practicing it. I guess we had the idea that it was more about boundaries and the things you COULDN'T do.

It actually took us a few months, and we felt kind of silly for having thought we knew so much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Now that we understand the concept a little better, we use it for just about EVERYTHING from what we are going to have for dinner or what order we run our errands in to bigger issues, such as career changes, major purchases, etc...
The process of negotiating has become almost like a game for us and it really enables decision making to be more fun, instead of something heavy, dreaded and stressful.

Example

Froz: Patriot, what are your plans for the evening?

Patriot: I was hoping to spend some time playing online games and also maybe do some studying. Was there something you had in mind?

Froz: I actually thought it might be nice if we could watch a movie.

Patriot: Well, would it be acceptable to you if I spent the next hour studying and save the online gaming for tomorrow evening when you are working late?

Froz: That sounds great, because I could actually use the next hour to go to the grocery store. I could get some ice cream while I am there and I don't even mind letting you pick the movie. I don't care what we watch at all, I just wanted an activity that was something we could do together that was also relaxing.

Patriot: Ice cream sounds wonderful. Is Chunky Monkey okay with you (uh-oh, another POJA in the works)?

That's kind of a dorky example, but you get the picture. Often, the more creative you can be with your negotiations, the more fun it is.

When we were negotiating our plans for New Year's Eve were, we discovered what we both really wanted was to stay at home and do something together.

We often have the burden of indecisiveness as an obstacle, and the concern that the other person is making a sacrifice.

Once we agreed on having appetizers and playing games together, we had all day to come up with a list - each person had to list their 5 top appetizer choices, and their 5 top game choices.

At the end of the day, we actually had a draft pick. I was excited about doing the draft pick all day long and I was very interested to see which things he picked and if we had picked any of the same things and we really had fun with it. It also sure beat the heck out of our usual method of

"What do you want to eat?"
"I don't know - what do YOU want to eat"
and back and forth and back and forth...

As far as division of household and children responsibilities and systems that are efficient, we've never really had an issue with that (because I do it all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />).

Patriot works more hours than I do and attends school. I have an extremely flexible work schedule, so I don't mind being responsible for most of the work (except what I call the Man Jobs, like taking out the trash or anything that involves a ladder or tools).

In exchange for these services, he is extremely willing to help whenever I ask for it. He will help me fold laundry. He always does any cleaning that involves strong chemicals because I am asthmatic.

I try to do things for him that would involve time, like running errands, as he doesn't have near as much free time as I do, so that he can enjoy his free time.

He tries to do things that make my life easier, like putting gas in my car (because I hate to do it).

One day recently, he even came up to my salon when he was off for the day and I was extremely busy. He folded towels, refilled shampoo bottles and other tasks so I wouldn't get behind and could work on my clients.

Once you get a routine established, households run much smoother, and of course, what works for one family may not work for another but I'm sure, through creative negotiation, you could arrive at a system that works well for you both.

Who knows, maybe a draft pick for household chores would speak to his masculinity...

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Thank you Froz, Point taken <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


. I walk the recovery path too, ... but I walk alone. HOW 'BOUT THEM STEELERS! . I've finally realized now, that you just have to keep breathing. Tomorrow the sun will rise, and who knows what the tide will bring. Tom Hanks (Castaway, 2000)
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Tom,

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear with my meaning. I wasn't making a point, where you were concerned.

By the comment I made that mentioned your name, I meant only that I admired the way White Dove chose to view a situation where SHE could have chosen to view it negatively.

I, personally, have a tendency to sometimes view comments made by others as personal attacks, when perhaps the only intent of the person is to be helpful by pointing out elements to my situation that might have escaped me.

I was simply conveying to White Dove that she set a positive example for me.

I'm truly sorry for the misunderstanding and hope you'll accept my apology for not being more clear.

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No apology needed from you Frozen, I admire you. Wish you would have talked to my STBX, I asked her to come on here last year and recommended you.

I don't have the smooth edges you ladies do.


. I walk the recovery path too, ... but I walk alone. HOW 'BOUT THEM STEELERS! . I've finally realized now, that you just have to keep breathing. Tomorrow the sun will rise, and who knows what the tide will bring. Tom Hanks (Castaway, 2000)
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Tom,

I must say I am more than a little shocked to read your statement above. I would be glad to talk to your STBX, when and if she is willing, although I truly have no idea why you would recommend ME or what the source of your admiration could possibly be, although it is unbelievably nice of you to say that. I am a far, far step behind most of the ladies here, with reference to Recovery.

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Frozen you came on MB right around when my STBX said she wanted to reconcile, and agreed to the conditions. (she quickly regressed) But I'm sure I sent her some links to your posts, and asked her to come on here for support. She got her support someplace else though.

She has an account here, but she won't post because she wants to be right all the time. If you tell her she's great, that you'll support her no matter what foolish thing she wants, then you are her best friend.

Anyway done with the thread Jack.


. I walk the recovery path too, ... but I walk alone. HOW 'BOUT THEM STEELERS! . I've finally realized now, that you just have to keep breathing. Tomorrow the sun will rise, and who knows what the tide will bring. Tom Hanks (Castaway, 2000)
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Frozen,

Thank you so much for the reply. It helps a WHOLE lot. Especially giving me the example of how you and Patriot use the POJA. Yes I have read through all of Dr. Harvey's information at some pt since discovering MB. But I didn't know abbrev.

Yes I remember thinking the same thing that my H and I are practicing the POJA, but it looks like we have a lot to learn. Thank you again.

On a side note...even though I haven't had a lot of time to keep up with your recovery but from your reply it seems like you and Patriot are doing great. I'm sooooo very happy b/c as you know I been on the side lines cheering you guys on. Keep up the good work!


Me(36)FS
H(36)WS
D's - 3 mos,2 & 15
Married 8/04
DDay 12/04 Him
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