1) In my eyes, I do love him.

2) It's 10:15pm. He's not called me, and I've not called him. I came home, ate Chinese food, took a Xanax which is starting to make me sleepy, and I'm going to read a Psalm and go to bed now and try hard to sleep.

3) My world revolves far more around him than it should. That is an issue I know God isn't happy about.

4) I'm disorganized and lose track of things even on a good day. But yes, I am full well aware that I am suffering depression, and that is making the issue 100 times worse.

But this is very difficult for me because it's the first day in a very, very long time--almost since our beginning--that I've not heard boo from him. A telling sign.
LL

A telling sign that he wants SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is good, to be aware of that.

Are you too aware that you are obssessed with your bf and what he'll decide?
And that's the centre of your universe? Not yourself, not your daughter, although both of you (you and your daughter), so troubled and unhappy, deserve more of your attention and care than any bf in the world?

Are you aware, if he now decides to marry you, after this 'sex-blackmail', that that marriage wouldn't bring you happiness?
You think if you just can marrie him, everything else would be just easy??
C'mon, LL, you have to know more than this!

Huh... sorry...

There was life before him, and there will be life after him. You have to know that too.

I recommend a good evaluation, LL. And maybe some Welbutrin. It's an antidepressant with some ability to help you focus better. That is what they started my daughter on when she was depressed last spring.

Lordslady - I think getting rid of the boyfriend would be the easiest answer then you wouldn't have to spend anymore time worrying about him... For one thing he really doesnt' want anything to do with your daughter and even though she is 16 and difficult she is always gonna be your daughter.. That right there should be the deal breaker.... And if you knew you were depressed then why did you ever stop - taking your antidepressants... And just for the record I think you are blaming to much on god and what he wants or what he thinks you should do.. It is time that you stand on your own two feet - and take care of you and your daughter and your son... and no one else.. And everything will fall into place with you and god...There will always be another man.. But you only have one son and one daughter....

Sigh, LL, I hurt for you. And yet I rarely post to you because I just don't understand the self-destructive path you put yourself on.

The root of all of your pain is yourself. You took a perfectly good relationship that was making you very happy and shredded it -- over your beliefs.

I don't think Mr. Guy has any issues at all. He seems like a perfectly normal man with perfectly normal expectations. Now you on the other hand have gone off the deep end (quite suddenly I might add...) with all of this long-distance marriage and ending the relationship talks. And now you MUST KNOW RIGHT NOW his every thought. You've caused a rift in the relationship -- you don't have a right to know his every thought. And if you keep badgering him, you won't have him in your life at all.

I just wonder what it is that will make you happy? Having him leave will make you miserable. But if he stays what new drama will you create?

Get yourself right. You are simply too conflicted within yourself to be a healthy partner for anyone.

Yep, I think it's pretty much unanimous on here.

LL, you really NEED to be alone for a while. You need to learn to be happy with your own company and to enjoy being with yourself before you try finding someone else again. Your reactions to these problems with BF have been way out of proportion. You haven't been depressed and sad - you've been manic and desperate and acting like this is your only chance ever of finding someone to be with and marry.

Being upset and sad by a breakup or by a rift in a relationship is normal. But what you've been doing is not. And it isn't healthy. We are all saying, and I can't stress this enough, that you really need to get yourself emotionally healthy again before trying to be in a serious relationship. And for you, I think that means before being in any kind of dating relationship at all! Because that's where it's going to go for you in the state you are in right now.

We all care a lot LL. And we're saying this because we see you heading down a road that is very likely going to lead to a whole lot of heartache if you don't do something about the way you are handling things first. None of us want to see you hurt even worse than you already have been.

Belonging,


It is very difficult to give my daughter attention when she's not home when I am. Last night she actually was here, and I brought her home Chinese food, but shortly after I arrived, her friend arrived and they shut themselves away in her room and that was that. Two teenagers don't want Mom horning into their private conversations. SHE chooses not to want to spend time with me. Things I want to do re NOT things she wants to do. And when I push, they just create tension.

Cinderella,

Right now I'm taking Lexapro, because according to my Dr. it has a better chance of also working with the anxiety I deal with. Some of the A/D's are just for depression. Don't know about welbutrin--heard of it, but he's never suggested it for me.

Maw,


His comment has been that he doesn't think he could live under the same roof with my daughter with her acting the way she acts, nor does he want his children interacting with her because of that same thing (how she treats me). And I do understand that to a degree. Once my daughter is 18, she will either be working or be in school and living by my rules, or as tough as it is to say, she will probably find herself looking for another place to live. I can't teach her anything by just allowing her to get by with her way of life forever. But true...she will ALWAYS be my daughter, regardless where she is. He knows that.



I went off my A/D's SLOWLY several weeks before things blew up. At that time things were going very well and I wasn't feeling depressed at all. I was feeling good. But I had been off of them too long when I made my "no sex" decision and now I'm having to start all over.

Lexxxy,


And that is one of the thoughts that haunts me more than anything. I could have still been in a wonderful relationship had I not messed with it.

But if I'm truly a Christian, and if the Bible is so clear about the consequences of pre-marital sex, and if I have become aware of that, then how can I continue in that sin deliberately and expect God to just overlook it? How can I really be making Jesus Lord of my life if I'm deliberately defying one of his very clear commands over and over? I think the decision seems crazy to most of you. There are one or two people on here who understand why I did it. But it was one of the most difficult decisions I've had to make in a LONG time, possibly even more difficult than deciding to file DV on my ex-husband, because by the time I did that he had walked away, was living with OW, and was treating me like poo. I didn't feel like I was the one ruining a wonderful relationship. I was just dealing it it's final blow, and it was a blow at that time that needed dealt.

This decision, on the other hand, when things were just awesome, has put me through h*ll. But that's because what I was doing was wrong, I shouldn't have been doing it in the first place, and now I'm having to pay the consequences of my actions of opening myself up so deeply to someone else under the wrong circumstances.

Drama: I did not choose to make this decision to create "drama" in my relationship. I spent a good day or two once it became very clear to me what I needed to do reading the bible, researching things, and hoping that somewhere...ANYWHERE...there was some clause that would let us continue things the way they were. But there isn't. So I had to do it.

But I really am so tired of drama. I look at people I know whose lives aren't perfect, but they don't deal with one thing after another like I feel I do. It's been chaos since I married at 19 for the most part. And what I'd had with Mr. Guy had been wonderful, aside from some issues with my daughter and a couple other little things...until this. I think it's the first time I've been in a relationship where I felt the person cared about me, was attracted to me, enjoyed being with me, enjoyed having me want to please them, and I didn't feel like I was constantly walking on eggshells to keep from upsetting them. It is so very difficult to imagine never having anything like that again.

And yes, I'm very down today. He didn't call at all last night, not that I'm completely surprised after the fact that he didn't respond to my email yesterday. And no, I didn't call him.

But it hurts badly. This is the first time since the beginning of our relationship that we've not spoken. My fear is that if I don't call him, he'll not call me and it'll just end this way...with no one saying anything... And I see that as a coward's way out.

LL

Oxsgirl,


You're not entirely incorrect here. It's a two-fold problem, coupled with depression.

1) I love this guy. Yes, I do. I truly have enjoyed every minute I spent with him, and wanted more than anything to please him (however, within the realms of my beliefs which is now the big issue). And I just wish the love would die, but it's not doing that. It's still very strong. Try as I may to tell myself this is no good anymore, my heart says otherwise.

2) Yes, I have a very real fear of being alone and celibate for the rest of my existence because of my stance on pre-marital sex and my stance on only dating someone who has divorced for biblical reasons. And I have not come to terms with that. I spent 18 months or thereabouts alone between when my ex moved out and when I first started dating. I had come to terms with short-term aloneness. It was okay in a way. I didn't have to answer to anyone, I came and went as I pleased, and in the summer I could work in my yard and take walks and such. But the key was I saw it as "SHORT TERM". Not "PERMANENT". I really believed at that time that God had opened up a new door for me and released me from a tough marriage, and that I had this opportunity to find the Christian husband I had prayed for and longed for, and so I was just biding my time.

Now I just have this sickening feeling that November 17, 2005 may have been the last time I'll ever experience the joy of making love to someone I'm in love with, and that last weekend may be the last time I am held and kissed and feel wanted by a man I love. Ever...

I am not wired that way.

LL

Maybe it won't end at all but if you call him it probably will- let him get a clear head.... let him decide what he wants dont' beg him - for an answer that he is so obviously not ready to give... And as for your no sex before marriage thing I don't believe that you really believe that - or else you wouldn't have had sex with two guys that you saw more than a couple of times.... I think that Lexxxy pretty much summed up the gist of the entire situation... You are doing this to yourself and you may not think you want the drama - but really I don't think you know any other way... Make a decision to wake up alone tomorrow not worrying about some guy and try to live your life that way... and as for your daughter yup typical teenager but I am thinking with the way that you feel she knows that and probably doesn't want to be around you when you are depressed or anxious...

Ok, you know what, I misspoke. It isn't that you need to learn to be happy in your own company. I understand that you aren't wired that way, it isn't what you want. I can really understand it - it isn't what I want either. Yet I've come to accept it may be what I get. I just don't know. I have decided I have to be patient and wait and just live my life the best way I know how and see what comes. I believe God has something in mind, and I need to let him be the one in control.

So it isn't that you need to be happy alone, that may never happen. But you do need to learn to be content. To accept where you are and what life brings, and make the best of what comes along. If you are going to try and follow what God wants you to do, you can't pick and choose; you should be trying to follow all of it. And accepting what he chooses for our lives, and letting Him be in control is a part of it too.

God tells us we shouldn't worry. Worrying is a sin as well, you know. It's one I struggle with a lot. I'll have to go look up the verses to give them to you exactly, but there is a passage that talks exactly about this. So in a way, you are only trading one sin for another here at this point.

And, as so many others have pointed out, even if things did work out between you and BF, this is not a very healthy start to a relationship at this point. And you are going into it with a lot of unhealthy behaviors. Those are things that need to be worked on regardless.

Again I will stat - we are worried about seeing you hurt. Yes, I know the thought of losing this relationship hurts you. But it is nothing to the hurt that will happen if you somehow do end up in a marriage to him that crashes in a few years because of the red flags so many of us are seeing now. Part of the point of being here is to avoid the mistakes we made the first time around, and hopefully avoid the mistakes we didn't make the first time around too. To have more successful relationships after our divorces so that we don't have to go through that horror again. That's all we want for you. And right now, we see you jumping in with both feet to situations that are leading to heartache now, and will likely lead to even bigger heartache in the future.

LordsLady:

You think you don't have a choice, but you DO!

If religion is important to you, then the happiness that you attain from following the *rules* should overtake the unhappiness of being celibate and alone. There should be no issue there if you truly believe that you're doing the right thing.

If you truly can't imagine being celibate for the rest of your life, then do what you want to do now and deal with the consequences (whatever they may be) at a later date.

You are conditioned to believe that you'll be cast into the fires of *the unholy place* if you disobey God, but you're pretty much in *the unholy place* right now--so what's the point?

“””Drama: I did not choose to make this decision to create "drama" in my relationship.”””

Point of clarification here, you did choose to insert drama into your relationship by not enforcing your boundaries in the 1st place.

“””This is the first time since the beginning of our relationship that we've not spoken. My fear is that if I don't call him, he'll not call me and it'll just end this way...with no one saying anything... And I see that as a coward's way out.”””

It’s his choice to be a coward or not. If’n I were you, I’d wait until Friday to call if he hasn’t called by then.

“””I had come to terms with short-term aloneness.”””

I beg to differ. LL, don’t rewrite history here. We can pull up a bunch of posts that will show otherwise.

“””I really believed at that time that God had opened up a new door for me and released me from a tough marriage, and that I had this opportunity to find the Christian husband I had prayed for and longed for, and so I was just biding my time.”””

Again, I beg to differ. I, personally, don’t believe you ever made it to the point of relying on God for anything or found any resemblance of peace while you were alone. Again, it was and is pasted all over these boards.

”””Now I just have this sickening feeling that November 17, 2005 may have been the last time I'll ever experience the joy of making love to someone I'm in love with”””

And the circle is complete…. Here we go again, same old stuff again….. This type of thing is where I truly wonder about the OCD thing. Before this new thing, you cycled very regularly from problem A to B to C back to A to B to C and so on. Obsessing on an issue, then acting out of a compulsion on that obsession…. I think that everyone on the board would agree that no matter what other circumstances exist, that you have more healing to do before you date. I would highly recommend that the next time you talk to Mr. Awesome guy that you tell him y’all need to take a break while you get your head on straight the Get ‘Er Did….. Get into or continue going to counseling, dear, you truly cannot afford not to be there. Get comfortable within your own skin, something I’d wager you haven’t been in like forever. And once you are truly comfortable, happy, and peaceful within yourself, then pursue a relationship…..

The one pattern I see over and over again is mourning what you think you'll never have again, instead of looking forward positively to a happier future.

Instead of wailing about how no one will ever want you, and no one will agree to your boundries, and you'll never have this or that or this in your life again (and you were saying these same things prior to your divorce....that no one would want you.....)

Why don't you try look at the future as full of possiblities of getting what you truly desire!? Why not let go of this relationship that is causing you pain and confliction with your faith -- AND GO GET A NEW ONE -- that doesn't cause you pain, and insn't in contrast with your beliefs.

Its all out there. But you'll never have it if you keep yourself blocked from it.

Hi LL. I haven't followed along with your whole story. It certainly looks like those familiar with your situation are giving you very wise advice.

I feel compelled to say, I do agree you need counseling. Relationship upsets can be quite traumatic. I think this board can be very good for you as well, allowing you to vent and share feelings...as long as you are using it in a healing way, learning more about yourself and not remaining in the muck and mire. Does that make sense? I am concerned because on this thread alone, I see your depression, your obsessive tendency, and your fatalistic/victim attitude.

This is downright frightening:


I've commented that I don't feel "wired" to be alone either. As a result of not entirely dealing with my abandonment issues, I jump into relationships too quickly. My bag to deal with. Ya know, a whole, whole bunch of people want to be in love; that's why all the dating sites do so well! I realize you feel love for this man, but do you realize how much power you are GIVING him over you? You're behaving, emotionally, like he's the only man on earth. Not true, obviously. Out of those millions of men, I'll bet there's some more who would suit you just fine. You refer to your Christian beliefs. As a friend on here told me in the past, when I was bereft over my separation and divorce...why are you giving this man so much control over you, why are you putting him on a pedestal above God?

And this quote is disturbing:


It doesn't sound like you're the mom here, you've given up control to her too. Plan time with her. She balks, so what, she's a teen...it happens. You stay calm and say hey, sorry, mom/daughter time, we're going to make this a regular habit. I want to know what's going on in our life and do things with you...and that's that, 'cause I love you. With a SMILE. I really don't know all the background here...but if she's not respectful to you, or following the program now, what makes you think she will once she turns 18? Seems to me it'll get worse.

I'll wrap this up by saying I think it's great you continue to respond even when caring posters get a little terse with you. Work on your self-discoveries, I think there's a wonderful person in there. Give her a chance to enjoy life.

I'm somewhat reluctant to respond to this thread because my views on pre-marital sex are much different than yours. I would never marry a woman I hadn’t had sex with. I would have to know her views on sexuality, I would have to know that we were sexually compatible before I made a life-long commitment to fidelity. That being the case, feel free to ignore this as I'm not a Christian so my opinions may not matter to you.

I don't think the issue is wether you can find a man that will respect your desire to not have sex until marriage. I think that some men would agree to this, but you would have to up-front about this. If this is a core believe to you, you have no business hiding or lying by omission. It almost seems that this sex issue is more important that how the guy treats you, if he respects you, if you feel cared for and loved when you are with him. Sex is one aspect of a relationship, and it is pretty important. But, in my mind, it isn’t the end all be all.

I see the problem that you are having with BF stems because you changed the rules. You were having sex with him then you, unilaterally, decided to stop. I think that he resents you for portraying yourself as something that you really weren't.

I would certainly date a girl even if I knew she wouldn't have sex. Not every girl I dated I even wanted to have sex with in the first place. There are a lot of wonderful things that are fun to do that have nothing to do with sex. If we were having sex and she decided she didn't want to anymore I would be very confused. I would wonder if there was something wrong with me . . . with my body . . . with the way I make love. I would feel tricked and used. I would feel that sex was used to attract me, as a tool to help cause me to fall in-love, and once that happened it served its purpose and is now removed. I would wonder if I married this woman if she would continually use sex, the giving and the taking away, as a tool to manipulate the relationship.

I'm sure you can find nice Christian men to date. I think you can find some that will be willing to wait until marriage before you two have sex. I just think that you need to be very honest about this before you two get involved in a relationship.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Was going to let this thread die, but there are lots of people to respond to:

Maw,

I know I can tell you and others 'til I'm blue in the face that I believe sex before marriage is wrong, and you won't believe me. But one can believe something is wrong, truly not intend to do it, and have it happen anyway. Many, many articles warn young Christian teens not to get involved in "making out" because even with their best intentions, they can quickly slide down the slope to the point of no return. And for someone who for 20 years was in a sexual relationship, I believe it's even more difficult because it's sort of a conditioned response...when the body starts feeling a certai way, it wants a certain thing, and that's where my mind (my willpower) wasn't strong enough. Even though I told Mr. Guy of my desires for no sex before marriage, we let things get too heated and they went there because my body wanted it and my emotions were eating up the feeling that I was desirable to someone. And once it started, I went three months and shut my beliefs out because it felt so wonderful. But I couldn't continue.

And it was sort of the same scenario with the one-time mistake with the guy prior to him who I dated about half dozen times. He was competitive--I knew that. I think our bantering back and forth about life issues was sort of an invigorating challenge for both of us. I knew from the start he wasn't "the one". I had NO intentions of ending up where I did. But he made moves and they felt good after not being with a guy for 18 months, and I thought I had things under control. Not so. That one ended very quickly after my mistake with him, because I knew from the very start it was wrong, I was very sorry, and I wanted to change things. Not the same with Mr. Guy. I love him. I love the way he made me feel when we were together.

Osxgirl,

Thank you for clarifying. I feel angry sometimes because I can't seem to resolve myself to being "happy" as a single person because it's not who I desire to be deep down inside. I don't feel that "calling". But I do understand that I need to be "content". I'm not there either.

And you are SO very correct--my worrying is a big sin. And it's a continual one. I believe every Christian probably has one or two things that they struggle with (feel free to correct me if you don't). For some, it may be an addiction, for some it may be sexual sins, for others it may be something harmful to their body...for me, it's worrying. I am my mother's child! And I pray and I pray for God to take my worries away and show me that he is enough. And I can look back to times where he has shown me that. But no matter how many times I read thoses verses (in Matthew, I believe, are the ones you are referring to), and I KNOW I'm supposed to just let go and feel peace, it doesn't come easily for me. Satan knows my weakness and he has a heyday with it. And the fact that I can't get the worry under control is almost as frustrating as the no-sex thing, because I just keep sinning. And then I question my own salvation.

I truly want to feel "normal" again. I did, up until this all happened. But when I feel this way, I find myself wondering if I'll ever feel normal again. Granted, in the past, God has always healed me eventually. But this time it seems to be taking longer than most. Maybe it's because of the holidays, and that I'm still in limbo with Mr. Guy, and that yes, I am dwelling on being alone forever.

I guess I'm afraid to have hope that God does indeed have someone out there who will love me for who I am and who will share my feelings for waiting on sex until marriage, and that it's just a matter of time until I meet this man, because I'm afraid of getting my hopes dashed once again.

Aeri,

I wish it was as simple as just doing what I wanted now and dealing with the consequences later. But I can't. First, the consequences are eternal--and eternity is a LONG time. Second, I can't just because of who I am. Does that make sense? I just can't do something over and over deliberately that I know is wrong and live with myself. The sadness, the unrest would eat me alive.

But that doesn't make the idea of a lifetime of celibacy any easier to deal with. It's not about happiness from "living by the rules". I truly want to live a life pleasing to God, and my mind also is aware that his way IS the best way for me, but my emotions are getting in the way.

LH,

I know I had some really depressing posts over the last couple years about how no one would want to date me. But if you do some searches (I was going to, but haven't had time yet), there truly are a number of posts about how much better I was feeling and how things were going well, and how people were right, that I wouldn't die if my ex left me. Most of those are probably over on GQII. Overall, outside the dating realm, I was fairly calm when my DD wasn't having her issues. But the dating stuff was the issue, because yes, I do have this fear of being alone for ever. That's what I meant about being okay with short-term aloneness (defined by LL as 1-2 years max outside a relationship). Okay, my ex has been gone 2 years in February. I've been DV for over a year. I truly do want to be in a relationship. And I truly do desire to not "casually date" but to find someone with whom I can spend the rest of my life. There...said it.

Counseling: I have a number to call to see what someone charges, but she's clear on the other side of the city so I also am going to as my pastor about another person they mentioned, and see what she charges. They are both Christian counselors. Will also have to find out, though, if they take a credit card. Cash isn't exactly available for more than maybe one session per month.

Lexxxy,

You're right...I'm mourning instead of being hopeful. I'm afraid to have hope because it keeps getting dashed.

Lucks,

This is a tough one to explain if you don't know my DD's history, which I won't explain here except to say she has lots of issues and I believe my DV and her father walking out on our family couldn't have happened at a worse time in her development. But I can't just "make" her spend mommy time with me. First, she's rarely ever home when I get home from work. And I can't demand that she be home because she just won't be. It's that simple. And she's a teenageer--she doesn't desire much mommy time anyway. If she feels like talking to me, sometimes she does. But to actually do things together, that's tough. I don't agree with her lifestyle or her friends. I'm friendly to them, but they know I don't condone the way they all live. I don't condone her foul language, and she tends to use it around me, and then I get angry and demand that she stops it and all mommy time goes out the window. I have a gift certificate to a Sushi place that someone gave me and she and I both like Sushi, so maybe if I can find some time when she's around, we'll go there. We do that about every 3 months. But that's about the only common interest we have.

I truly don't know what to do with her right now. She's quit school (she can by law, and I can't stop her). She's not working, though now she's telling me she may have a job at a diner here starting in January. Time will tell. No, I don't expect a miraculous change when she turns 18, but she's been told many times that she is making poor choices for her future, and that once she turns 18 and is legally an adult, she WILL either be in school (vocational, GED, or otherwise) or working AND she will be obeying basic house rules, or she will not be living in the house. That will be a very hard thing to do if it comes to that, but I watched my ex's sister do basically what my DD has done, and people constantly bailed her out as an adult, and now at the age of 42 she is still not responsible for herself.

CN,



Yep, and that's the comment I hear over and over that sends me into obsessing over my being alone forever... But I give you credit for at least admitting you don't share my Christian beliefs. It's those who do but don't agree with the no-sex stance who are really depressing me.

I was upfront with Mr. Guy at the beginning. However, when push came to shove (and there really wasn't much of either--it was by mutual decision after making out that went too far), we did go to a physical relationship. And once that happened, and even worse, because I shut God out of my life and let it continue for almost 3 months, YES...that was a very difficult thing for me to stop, and it's been a very difficult thing for him to deal with. And frankly, he's not dealing with it. But he did know my feelings going into things, and actually while he had admitted that his history of staying out of bed with L/T girlfriends wasn't successful, he agreed that the bible does say sex outside of marriage isn't right.

I have been upfront about it with the only three guys I dated more than once. Guy #1 agreed with me, though said it would be very difficult and that sex is very important, but felt that it might be do-able as long as lots of questions of compatibility were answered beforehand. But we freaked each other out for different reasons.

Guy #2 challenged me on that from the beginning, and he won, and I stopped dating him.

And Guy #3 --that'd be my current non-BF. I was upfront with him, too.

The thing is, two of these three guys professed to be Christians and said finding a Christian woman was very important to them. Yet when it came down to it, neither were too hot on the idea of obeying God's word where it comes to sex.

Final comments/questions:

1) Have you ever truly been incompatible with someone sexually who you deeply cared for? (I'm not sure it's possible, and even if it were, can't believe it could ruin a relationship. If two people truly love each other, they'll be willing to communicate and learn.)

2) What guarantee do you have that just because a woman puts out before marriage, that she will continue to after marriage? I'll turn this around--my ex and I had a fairly active sex live as we dated (I was not saved at the time) and into part of our marriage. But as his resentment and dissatisfaction, and his addiction ot alcohol and my resenting his drinking grew, the thing he withheld more than anything else was affection and sex. We went months at a time without. Would I have ever dreamed that prior to our marriage? Never!

And as for why I no longer am having sex, with my non-BF, it has nothing to do with my not wanting it. I explained very clearly WHY I was making the decision and that what we had together had been wonderful and that I truly wanted it again with him someday, but in the propert context (a marriage). He said he understood--the problem is one can understand, but not agree with the decision.

Finding an honest Christian man. I'm not sure there are many left out there, and most of them are married. In a city of only about 400,000 people it's not like I have millions of singles to choose from.

If I believe the bible, I know all things are possible with God (meaning even if there was only ONE, he could somehow put us together if we were supposed to be), but my emotions are really messing with me right now and I'm seeing that glass as very much half-empty.

LL

you just love the drama of it all!!

If you have sex before marriage the guilt will "eat you alive" and if you let HIM go, it will kill you....DRAMA...pick one or the other...no sex or sex...knock the drama queen act off and grow up!

IF you ever talk to him again tell him I said to run like heck and never look back!

You really need to see someone about your problem.

LL,

I have no desire to convince you that you belief is wrong, strange, or anything like that.

I was a Christian most my life. I'm one of the few people that I know that has read the entire bible . . . from begats to revelations. My decision to question my faith probably come from my career training. I'm a scientist. It is hard to be a scientist and a Christian . . . there is just too much in the bible that isn't logical to me. I still have great respect for people of the Christian faith, but it isn’t the path for me.

Anyway, to answer your question.

"1) Have you ever truly been incompatible with someone sexually who you deeply cared for? (I'm not sure it's possible, and even if it were, can't believe it could ruin a relationship. If two people truly love each other, they'll be willing to communicate and learn.)"

Absolutely. I've had SF with women that were incompatible with me. Sometimes it was a physical thing . . . things just didn't mesh well. Others it was more of a temperament issue. You've been married and have had SF with more that one guy. You know that it can feel wonderful and be a blessing to you. Other times, SF can be a very uncomfortable and miserable experience. I don’t know of anyone who would be happy with lousy sex after knowing the pleasure of being with someone that really is in to it . . . someone that spends the time to make it the best that it can be.

Case-in-point, My one-time college girl friend and I had non-sexual relationship for over a year. We were great friends and really liked being with each other.. We became sexual and it was a disaster. We didn't like the same things in bed. It didn't feel right at all. It was kind of like kissing my sister if you know what I mean. I am very glad that I didn’t marry her.

I don't have an answer for you, but yes I think that people can be sexually incompatible. It is a risk that I wouldn't be willing to take. I used to think that "love" was all that really mattered in a marriage. I don't think that way anymore.

"2) What guarantee do you have that just because a woman puts out before marriage, that she will continue to after marriage?"

None. It isn't an issue so much an quantity for me as it is an issue of quality.

You are right . . . sex could be wonderful before marriage and turn bad during marriage. At least I would know that the possiblity of returning to that state of great sex existed, for it was once there. If I got married and found out that we just couldn't please each other . . . then what?

" I'll turn this around--my ex and I had a fairly active sex live as we dated (I was not saved at the time) and into part of our marriage. But as his resentment and dissatisfaction, and his addiction ot alcohol and my resenting his drinking grew, the thing he withheld more than anything else was affection and sex. We went months at a time without. Would I have ever dreamed that prior to our marriage? Never!"

Your right here. There is no guarantee. But, past performance is generally positively correlated to future performance.

"And as for why I no longer am having sex, with my non-BF, it has nothing to do with my not wanting it. I explained very clearly WHY I was making the decision and that what we had together had been wonderful and that I truly wanted it again with him someday, but in the propert context (a marriage). He said he understood--the problem is one can understand, but not agree with the decision."

I know you explained why . . . I'm just telling you as a man I would hear from your refusal to continue have SF that I was somehow inadequate. I know that you said your decision is based upon you belief system, I could even understand that. But deep down I would think that I just didn’t do it for you and that I was defective. We men are really pretty fragile and anxious with how our mates view our . . . body let's say, and our ability to satisfy you women. I know you said to him that your decision to stop has nothing to do with him and everything to do with you faith ... I just telling you that that probably isn't what he is hearing.

I know lot's of honest Christian men. I know they exist.

If things don't work with this BF . . . well the next you will have to approach differently.

Tell him up front (again) that you don't want to have SF before marriage . . . that you feel it is inconsistent with your faith and that you will lose respect for both of you if it happens. Tell him you are weak and that you may not always be able to say NO in the moment, but if he respects you he won't put you in that position. This means kissing is probably o.k. but no heavy petting . . . It just makes things too hard and you may end up doing something that you will regret.

Not all men want to bed every women that he dates. I didn't. I just don't think I could marry a woman I haven't slept with. It isn't a religious issue with me, it is a practical issue. Marriage is just so hard. I wouldn't want to add sexual uncertainty to the mix.

Alluring,

I do appreciate your input, though it is obvious that we will probably never understand each other. You don't share my convictions about sex before marriage, so it is very difficult for you to understand why I can't just "do it" and quit making this so darned difficult.

But the only way I could would be to turn my back on God, on my beliefs, on everything that I am inside and throw my hands up and say "I give up! I'm living how I want to." And for lack of any better way of explaining it, I just can't do that. Call it guilt, call it knowing how grieved God would be with my behavior and my turning away from him, call it my fear of separation from God...whatever...I just can't do it.

But as for letting Mr. Guy go, I truly do love him, and you tell me how you let someone you love go and how it doesn't about kill you emotionally. It about killed me emotionally to let a man go (my ex)who was blatantly sleeping with another woman, because I loved him. And that was HIS choice to blow up a relationship. In this case, it is much more difficult because I know I caused the problem by first going against my beliefs initially, and second by then pulling the plug on the sex.

I hurt terribly for me, and I hurt for him, too. I don't like to hurt people.

I don't like the drama. I hate it. If I liked it, I wouldn't have lost 10 pounds and be fighting like crazy to keep from losing more. I hate waking up feeling like I do. I'd like to wake up to just LL's normal life of dogs barfing on new carpet, my daughter being out way too late and my not knowing where she is most of the time, being short of money because child support is forever behind, and work being crazy.

This is NOT how I desire to live! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

And it's not how God desires me to live. Of course I was on browsing for some good books on divorce and came across all the ones that talk about how the early church didn't even condone remarriage at all after divorce. That just takes me down a whole other tangent that I've been down before. Maybe that's why I have this nagging feeling that God is going to have me alone for the rest of my life--maybe it's because I'm not allowed to remarry anyway.

I actually have problems reconciling that belief because why would God even allow divorce if it were not to free the person to remarry. If you're not going to remarry, why do you even need to divorce? Why not just live separately? I know, it's something even churches don't agree on, so it's not something I'm going to find a concrete answer on myself.

I am trying to find a Christian counseling service that will accept my insurance....

LL