I would never 'zero in' anyone's beliefs (no matter how far they might be from mine), as long as the one really has them and moreover, live according to their beliefs...



Of course, for just that night... I understand that, but for 3 months...?



My son is 4, and I am going to raise him to have sex with someone he loves and respects, when these feelings are mutual...
Well, he'll find his own way, regardless of what I say, and that is absolutely his right. So far he knows who he is and is happy with himself, and take full responsibility for whatever he might be doing in his life.

Swan,

Thank you for understanding...

Alluring,

I do understand what you're saying. I guess I'm just waiting for HIM to tell me he's done, instead of saying "I'm very conflicted--50% of the time I feel one way and the other 50% I feel the other way". I want him to make his decision 100% one way or the other. Yes, actions right now say which way he's swinging, but I'm always afraid to assume too quickly. And frankly, I'm very weak, and breaking up 2 days before Christmas is not something I want to deal with.

Maw,

Okay, one more time here...said almost the same as before. Christians aren't perfect. They can fall into sin. And sometimes, if they shut God out like I did (because let's admit, this whole thing can be sort of addicting...look at what happened to our WS's...they became stupid for a time), the sin can continue for more than one occasion. Willpower wasn't even the issue for most of that time. I wasn't trying not to. I truly didn't feel wrong at the time I did it, nor did it start feeling wrong for almost three months, because I wasn't praying, I wasn't reading my bible, I wasn't doing much of anything except sitting in church on Sundays. I love him and think in my brain I'd convinced myself we were on our way to marriage an that and how good things were was my sole focus. But as I started to feel the pull to do those other things, and then just as I heard things or read things, God's voice started to sink in and it became very clear to me and I could no longer deny that I was living contrary to his word. I had no choice at that point but to either quit doing it or deny God. It was one of the most difficult choices I've made in a long time, actually more difficult than the day I opted to file for DV from my ex.

Belonging,

Hypothetically (which we can very much agree is almost impossible now), if he said he accepted my boundaries and promised to marry me in 2 years, as long as he continued to see me and our relationship continued to grow and he didn't constantly push those boundaries, that's all I'd need. TRULY! I mean that.

Why did I 'ruin' my happiness this time. As I said dozens of time now. I can't continue to deliberately disobey God on this, even if it does mean I lose the relationship. I just did a lot of praying that he was strong enough to accept my decision, and it appears he's not.

LL

Belonging you said
"My son is 4, and I am going to raise him to have sex with someone he loves and respects, when these feelings are mutual...
Well, he'll find his own way, regardless of what I say, and that is absolutely his right. So far he knows who he is and is happy with himself, and take full responsibility for whatever he might be doing in his life."

If we were all taught to wait for the one and wait until we did get married them this web site would not exist, becuase all of us waywards would be in the feeling with the other woman or other man because we would know that the giving of our bodies in marriage only is right.

I hate to say it but your son will have that feeling right and left as he meets different woman, so is it ok with him sleeping with all of them. Because what he felt right then and there was right at the moment? Because of the mutual feeling were ther what do you think we tell ourselves as we cheating on our partners? The greatesr gift you can give your future H or W is the fact that you valued yourself enough to wait for the one that was right for you. This is something that I will always regret knowing that I gave up my virginity for a moment of pleausre with someone that I would not marry.

You didn't listen to you mom?
See, and I did...

Yes and no, I rebelled at a certain point only because she was so afaid that she would lose us too after my father died on the job that she became so over protective of all 5 girls and I did noy give up the valued V until I was 25 and out of the house.

HEY LL...... Just pooped in to get something from the office and thought about you, I guess that's what friends do. Anywho, hope you have and are having a very Merry Christmas.....

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers.....

SO now that people are here, where are you??

I am about to take my kids to their dad's for a coupld of days, and then I, too, will be alone until BF gets back from his sister's house 2 hours away. Yes, I was invited, but I declined and plan on NOT moping around, and getting some materials ready for a class I"m teaching. LL, I hope you can find a way to spend your day, happily. I will be on and off all day so chime in if you need to chat.

CM

Me thinks LL is with bf, and we are alone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] B2M- [/color]
If you were hoping that comment would get a rise out of LL, it appears you're mistaken! Hopefully she has found something other than BF to keep her occupied.

[color:"blue"] LL, [/color] I hope today was better for you than you had expected! There are a few of us here if you need/want to post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LH, CM, B2M, Avondale,

Thanks for thinking of me. I've been trying to be independent and keep myself from obsessing. It worked better yesterday than today, though this evening once everything has wound down I've started to feel that familiar "down" feeling and the anxiety start again.

No, I'm not with Mr. Guy. I have heard from him over the weekend, though not today. He called me Friday night as I was doing my last-minute shopping and we talked about 45 minutes while I was at Target. Nothing big, no talk about "us", but he filled me in on what he'd been doing the night before at poker and what he'd done with his kids on their day of shopping on Friday, and then talked about some of his Christmas Eve plans as they were going to celebrate yesterday, because he had to give the kids to his ex for most of today, but then should have them back this evening.

We talked briefly about NY Eve (his ex is giving him the kids again), and that my kids had plans, and I said something about how I would be hanging out with my puppies having some munchies.

He said, "I guess you could come over here, but you'd probably be subjected to several games of chess with my son." It took me by surprise and I made some comment about not wanting to feel like I was butting in. He commented back that he thought it was an invitation. I said, "I'm trying to give you space and not push you." He said, "I didn't think you were pushing."

I wasn't sure what to do because I wasn't sure if he was inviting me because he WANTS to see me or because he feels sorry for me because I'll otherwise be alone (and am no sort of kicking myself for looking ungrateful for the invite), so I said we could talk about it more after Christmas.

Then he called me again yesterday (Christmas Eve) morning and we talked briefly before I headed with my kids to my ex-in-laws to spend the day with all their family. He was on his way to do some very last minute shopping and just wanted to wish me a Merry Christmas.

We didn't plan on talking last night, not knowing what time I'd be back or when he'd be back from taking his kids to their mom's. So I told him I'd give him a call Christmas afternoon (today). He did say he'd probably be hanging at his parents' and that if I didn't happen to reach him when I called, his phone was probably in the car (he generally leaves it there).

So, I tried to reach him this morning about 10am before I went to church. No luck. Just left a quick "Merry Christmas. I'm going to church and am turning my phone off now. My parents will be up after church. I'll try you this afternoon after my parents leave." message. Tried him again at 3pm when my parents left. Still no luck so just told him what I'd done today and said, "When you get my messages, give me a call."

It's almost 6pm. No call. Okay, I'm not patient. I keep thinking now that he knows I've called him (as opposed to Friday when I didn't call and he finally called me instead), he won't call me at all today. But then again, I HATE that I'm this way because it's not even late yet. Plausible reason for no call: His phone could be in his car, and he may have never left his parents' house yet today because I believe his ex was supposed to drop the kids back off there for him. So why can't I just relax and turn it over to God. I did very well until about 2 hours ago, and now I'm strugging trying to keep my focus off of not hearing from him. And I realize it's Christmas and most people DO have a life, and they may have other family stopping and visiting, or be with people where he can't call me, or any number of things.

I go from periods of feeling like I'll survive even if we split up to really, really missing him and wanting to be with him or at least hear his voice.

And I know you all think I'm nuts. And sometimes I do, too. And LH said "actions speak louder than words" when I asked what "being conflicted" meant--meaning that Mr. Guy has made it clear with his actions that he's done...that he's not willing to try....because he's not even seeing me.

And then he goes and calls me twice on his own (Friday night and Saturday morning) and he sort of invites me over for New Year's Eve. And then I get all hopeful, and then I don't hear from him today and I start thinking all sorts of things, and I get myself all messed up.

And it's harder now because I have less to distract me. My son has left to see his GF. My daughter has chosen to seclude herself as usual in her room until just now when she's got a friend who has stopped over. It's dark out now. It's been cloudy and dreary all day as was the case yesterday (and the day before, and the day before...)

And truly I do need to find a different church. I went this morning. I was only one of two people there over college age not there with a spouse. I'm happy for all the families who were all dressed so cute and were all lauging and smiling and sitting with their arms around each other. But it does really drive home the point of what I had and lost, because my kids don't go to church with me either.

So yeah, I am around. I'm going to try and work on some bills and stuff to keep my mind off my cell phone not ringing.

I've been praying to God to "strengthen me and help me" over and over (one of my favorite verses, and one of the only ones I've ever managed to memorize is Isaiah 41:10), and like I said, yesterday I did feel stronger. I actually had very little anxiety at all. But then again, I heard from Mr. Guy yesterday morning and I know that unfortunately played a part in my relative calm, too. Today, not hearing...I'm worrying more. I've also been praying that God will help me do a better job not "what if-ing" about the future all the time because it's totally unproductive and all it serves to do is worry me about things that may or may never be.

Anyway, I'm not calling him again tonight. If I haven't heard by 10-10:30pm, I'll probably just shut off my phone.

So, been better on this Christmas Day, but supposed I've had days where I felt worse. At least I'm eating again and almost have an appetite. My Dr. told me it would take 2-3 weeks at my current dose for my A/D to level out my moods, and I've only been on them a week.

LL

LL, I am so sorry to read your post, but I wanted to respond. His comment above is not, repeat, [color:"red"]NOT [/color] an invitation. Do not take it as such. It is, at best, a crumb thrown your way, and anyone with any shred of dignity would respond with the only equally appropriate statement: "Thanks honey, but I'll be busy changing the air in my tires".

Step back and think for a second, LL. When you and he started dating, is that how he wooed you, "guessing" that you "could" come over, but you will have to play with his kids? Me thinks not. So, do not allow him to treat you this way now. Me also thinks he might be getting horny again, hence the invite. Ugh.

I wish you hadn't called him twice today, he really does have you hanging on a string. IMO, if it were me, I'd do the only thing in your power - cut the string, and walk away. From what I have heard about this "guy", I think he is not someone you should be focusing your life on.

AGG

Hi LL,
It sounds like you're doing OK. That's good. You sound sad, but not desperate like some of your other posts. The fact that he called and (yes) invited you over is a good sign.

I told you this story before, but i'm going to tell you again. My current BF and I had been having "relations" for about 2 months when I decided for reasons I won't go into (because it doesn't matter, really) that we needed to abstain from sex. I dropped the bomb similarly to your method, sort of out of the blue.

Do you remember what his reaction was? His exact words were, "OK". Did he freak out? NO. Was he disappointed? Most likely. But he continued on as I wanted to discuss it, and he continually stated it was WHATEVER I wanted. Did we spend less time together? Absolutely not. He made it very clear he wanted to BE with me, and while sex was great it was NOT THE REASON he was with me.

We even still managed to sneak in some overnighters with nice snuggling and he NEVER made a move!!!

I guess that while I still hpe things will work out for you, I'm not sure this is the guy. My BF was SOOOO understanding and respectful of my decision,which is so different from what we're seeing from your BF. That worries us quite a bit, because he really is putting sex ahead of the relationship with you.

I do agree, however, that just because he's "conflicted" right now, does not mean that he doens't care for you. Only time will tell. Please continue how you have been and don't bug him.

Enjoy your new years' with him, adn I'll be on again later if you want to chat.

cm

AGG,

I'm not saying you're not right about the "not being an invitation". That's why I haven't accepted yet.

But the comment:



Actually, I enjoy his son who is 12, and who has indeed sucked me into a lot of chess games. The chess comment was sort of joking-truth if that makes sense. He will have his kids all day on New Year's Eve so it wasn't like he was inviting me to go out with him somewhere. It would just be hanging out with his family which is what I generally have done when I go over there. We have never been a couple to go out much on our own other than to an occasional movie or quick dinner, and that's actually fine with me. We generally just hang either with his parents and his kids when it's his weekend, or we hang by ourselves at his apartment (which is what has caused all the problems).

And I keep thinking he wouldn't have had to say anything at all to my comment about being alone, and maybe he genuinely does want to try and see me again, but then again it hurt bad last time I went over to see him and thought it meant we were an "us" still, and we weren't. So I don't know.

But still, I go back and forth. On one hand I think he's not seeing me because he's done with me. On the other hand, because of the comments he's made about being with me and knowing he blows past my boundaries and then feeling bad about that, I wonder if he is avoiding seeing me because he's not sure how to act when he is around me, since each time he's pushed past what he knew he should and then felt bad about it afterwards, but still calls because he's not sure he wants to be be done yet.

Maybe he really is conflicted, and truly hasn't made up his mind for sure yet?

Oh, I only called him 2 times today because I had originally said I'd call in the afternoon, and was following through with that. But granted, if I want to think on it another way, if he knew I was going to call in the afternoon, he could have brought his phone in from the car, too.

LL

CM,

Oh, I've felt a little desparate from time to time today, but mostly just very sad and lonely, and just tired of not knowing. I'm really glad that you have someone who understands and who is willing to wait, whatever the reason.

Your comment:


That's the part that bothers me. I understood his initial disappointment and his shocked reaction. It did come out of the blue to him. And I understood that it might take time for him to adjust and that it wouldn't be easy. But it's been over a month now and we've rarely seen each other. At first we did, but then, and I do think it's mostly because each time he's with me it drives him crazy and he does things that he knows he shouldn't do, that he has now taken to just not seeing me because no-see-me means no-do-wrong-things. The problem is that it's just not a relationship this way, and the tension is growing, and I can cut it with a knife sometimes. Our last couple phone calls have been more joking and less tense, but still...it's just not good.

But I guess I'm just so afraid to let go for fear of the unknown, that I won't find anyone else who I feel about like I feel about Mr. Guy. (And then there's that whole thing for me about only dating guys who have been DV for biblical reasons which further complicates the whole picture.)

Why do I doubt God so?

LL

LL,
I'm glad that you do see it as a warning sign that he would rather NOT be with you than be with you without sex. That's a HUGE red flag for those of us who are on the outside looking in. I don't have much of a dating history, since I married my BF from age 21, but this BF makes it very clear he doesn't care what we do, or don't do, he wants to be with me.

Why do you doubt God? I honestly think it's something many people here have suggested. That you may not be completely comfortable with just yourself, and are still looking for a relationship with a man to fulfill yourself. I am not overly religious, so I can't profess to what your relationshop with God should be. I do know that I am comfortable with my spirituality, so don't doubt God as much as I did, say, one year ago.

On the human flesh and bone kind of relationships. Many would say I got into this one too quickly. Maybe. I do know that I was NOT looking for a relationship when I met him, and it just kind of happened. This seems so different from you this summer, when you REALLY wanted a man in your life. Your goal was to get a boyfriend. Soembody a few pages back suggested that maybe you were in this relationship because it was better than the alternative. Only you can answer that.

I wish I had some good advice for you. I don't speak as eloquently as others, and I don't really have spiritual guidance. I just feel the anxiety and desperation through the net and can almost touch it.

I hope you do get into counseling, and I hope you can change your attitude from thinking it's a waste of money to looking for guidance.

later,
cm

You are welcome, LL.


This is very good, LL! Just be persistent. It's not easy at the beginning, but the more you try and occupy yourself with other things, the less you'll be obsessed and feel bad about the situation.
And you have to recall similar situations from your past. You must had felt (like all of us) that your life would never ever again have bright moments, you'd never fall in love or be with someone again, yet, it's happened! And it will again! Just recall...
So far we are alive, we have a chance to love again and be loved and happy again.
So, take care of your health, for many nice things are going to come. It cannot always be raining, just get rid of clouds of your worries about future, revive and rely on your own strength and you'll see the sun eager to embrace you.


Of course you will survive!
And, this is OK, all of us went through this at the time, just be aware that you are stronger than you think.
Take care.

CM,

I have very little dating history as well. Other than the guy I married, who I dated from the time I was 15 and married at 19, I dated one other guy off and on during that period, and we never got serious. Since my DV, this is the first (and I was hoping ONLY) L/T relationship I've had. I don't see the benefit in dating people long-term, falling for them, and then breaking up. Seems stupid. I want to find someone who is right for me, and who I am right for, and just be with them. And of the guys I've dated, this guy just felt "right".

Why doubt God? I should clarify. It's not that I doubt that God can do what he can do. It's that I doubt that God wants me to be with someone. I have this gut feeling that he wants me to be single forever (i.e., no cuddling, no partner, no kisses, no sex, just female friends to drink coffee with), because it's like my biggest fear. And I feel like I'm going to just keep struggling against him until he finally breaks me down. But yet I struggle.

I won't lie. I do want a man in my life. It's not that I can't function on my own. I own my own home, I'm good at taking care of things, I've always sort of been "alone" in a way, even when I was married. But I want a partner, someone to come home to at night to share my life with, and yes, someone to snuggle with and share that type of love that you just can't share with even the best female friend. I long for that. And I had it for a while with Mr. Guy, which is why it's so hard to let it go, and fear that it may never happen again.

I dearly want someone who wants to be with me, FOR ME, and not just for sex. But are they really there? I don't want to marry a church pastor. I just want to find someone who cares more about pleasing the Lord than pleasing himself, if the two are in conflict. And I want a man who wants me for me, not just for what my body might provide.

Maybe a part of why I don't want to let go of Mr. Guy is that I'm afraid to be alone and start over again, for fear that this time there will be NO ONE. But another reason is that I truly care about this guy. I miss being with him.

LL

B2M,

Agreed, I felt like there would never be anyone after my ex left me. Thought I would die. Knew no one would have me because of my past and because of my desire for no-sex.

Okay, found Mr. Guy. He has accepted me, past and all. But as we all know, the no-sex thing is blowing it up. So I was still half-right which furthers my fears for the future, and not ever, ever finding anyone.

I do keep thinking that eventually I won't feel this way, that eventually I'll wake up and feel half-normal again. And yesterday I really did (but I think that was because he called me and we had a fun conversation yesterday morning). Today, the day started okay, but has gone downhill to the point that right now I am feeling some true anxiety again.

No phone call yet. And I know the football game that he'll be watching is on right now and probably will be until late, so it's doubtful he'll call at all. Why didn't he call earlier? That's what bugs me.

1 1/2 hours and I'm shutting off my phone if he hasn't called. I just think it's cruddy not to call me on Christmas.

And yet it's driving me nuts not hearing from him. UGH!

LL

Precisely my point. If you enjoy time with his son, then there is no need for him to "warn" you about playing chess with his son. I see his comment as one of those "well, if you insist, go ahead, but don't complain if/when I don't pay any attention to you once you are here". You are right, I don't know your inside jokes, but I think you are being thrown crumbs.

I guess time will tell. I just remember what happened last time you went there (you became the "booty call"), and I wonder why you would want to subject yourself to that again.


Would you ever have seen yourself being seriously involved with someone who does not call you on Christmas? If not, then why are you hanging on to this guy like he is the last man on earth?

AGG

Update:

He did call me. He and his family had been at his brother and sis-in-law's all day and he was just getting home when he called at 10:45pm. We had the normal "superficial stuff" conversation for about an hour, and just as he was starting to get tired, I picked the very poor time of deciding NOW was the time to talk about New Year's Eve, and heck, our relationship or rather lack thereof in general.

I started by trying to bring up NY and plans, but digressed and basically went into the "Where are we? Are we dating or not dating? Are you going to see me, or not see me?"

And then I mentioned NY Eve and my feelings that he wasn't all that hot on seeing me. No, he says, he did want to see me. But he's still "conflicted", just as he's been saying forever, that 50% of the time he thinks about how great I am and how wonderful we get along and it seems stupid to let the sex break us up, and the other 50% he thinks of how frustrating and stupid this is because how can it work?

Of course he's now talked to his younger brother the agnostic, (nice guy actually, but doesn't share my biblical beliefs at all), who volunteered that I'm rather attractive for a 40-yr-old (thank you, I think?), but he thinks it's absolute craziness that I don't want to sex and that two consenting adults shouldn't interpret the Bible so literally. Not helping the cause...

So, NY Eve is on hold right now because I told him I don't want to come over and just get my hopes up and then find out that things never were. And he admits that while he wants to see me, it's very difficult every time we are together in person, and that he is still beating himself up for pushing my boundaries further than he should have last time, but that he also knows that if I stop him earlier, that will be difficult for him, too.

Sounds like a no-win situation (and right now I feel like someone's hands are gripping my throat and squeezing)--just not the type of Merry Christmas conversation I wanted to have.

But where we sort of ended it is this. I told him he either needs to move forward and start seeing me again and see how it works, or....(and I hesitated for a second...)

And he said, "So to use a line my brother would use, you're saying I need to either sh*t or get off the pot?"

Told him that I didn't want it to end, but by not seeing each other, we're not really growing a relationship this way either, so yeah, I guess that's what I meant. Make a decision one way or the other and then move forward with it. Get out of this holding pattern.

He told me I've given him something to think about. He'll talk to me later (no idea when).

The ball is rolling. I am feeling sick, because I'm pretty sure which way it's rolling. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

LL