Why is this bad news? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

H agreed (willingly) to counseling together. That's wonderful, and ya'll will hopefully reach some fantastic discoveries in those sessions together!

why are you upset??? He didn't propose, and never did say for sure there would be a wedding... why were expecting it? Is that what you're upset about??? And upset that he wants sex in March, and can't wait until July? (I don't blame you for being upset about that!!!)

Lordslady - No one is gloating... I actually think this is great news... it will give you time now to slow down.. Maybe you should evaluate your stand on a couple of things.... Not everything is totally "gods" fault... And praying I think is suppose to help you not make you doubt anything about life...You sound so upset... Why???

"Once again, I prayed and prayed for something, once again it looked very promising, and once again things have blown up.

Story of my life. Why pray? In fact I had a brief moment last night where I wondered if God is even out there."

Okay, this is an example of "My plan for me is better than your plan for me, God" thinking.

Besides, what did you want God to do? Did you want Him to force R to marry you? Surely not.

LL, try stepping back from yourself for a minute. Look at last night, both at what happened and then your reaction to what happened. How do you feel about wishing you would stop breathing in the middle of the night? Does your reaction appear to be in proportion to the circumstances?

((LL)), do you honestly think any of us want to gloat? Heck, I don't really even know what that means let alone want to do it.

What I am glad about is that you can see now what was so obvious to us. He is pressured and he is doing it for totally selfish reasons. That is him. He is willing to bend his previously stated boundary and long as he gets to have sex.

This coupled with the long laundry list of red flags I posted the other day, that once again were simply your quotes, should be enough for you to begin to open your eyes and see that not only are you not ready for marriage in the near future, he isn't ready for marriage in the near future. Moreover, I'm willing to bet that if you continue in counselling and get to that healthy place, you'll look back at 'R' and say "What the Heck Was I thinking?"....

Anywho, interested to know what your plans are? And do know, that your family here loves you very much and we truly do want what's best for you....

Hi LL:

I've been reading all along, but am just now posting.


First, I am so sorry you feel that way. I recall a period in my life I felt just that way {{{{{{{{{{{{lordslady}}}}}}}}. Secondly, I think this is exactly why your counselor wants to focus on your anxiety and insecurity issues. Until you address the underlying reasons that cause you to feel sooo awful, you really are not ready to be in a relationship.


I've also been in a position of praying and praying for something, and then losing what I so desperately wanted. God doesn't always answer prayers the way we want Him to, or on our schedule. I do, however, believe that His love and care surrounds us, even when things seem at their worst.

Sending you hugs and prayers--

Kathi

Faith,

Yes, I was happy to hear him agree to premarital counseling. We didn't discuss when. But that's not the issue. I posed some very pointed questions after that, and it was the responses to those questions that are breaking my heart...mainly that it's obvious he's not comfortable with his March date.

He said to me, "LL, why do you have to make this so difficult? Why can't you just be happy that I decided to throw caution to the wind and move things up?"

Well..because it's not for the right reason.

I want him to marry me because he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, not because frustration is getting the best of him.

But when I suggested moving the date back to June, he doesn't want to do that because it's too frustrating.

He did admit that while he hasn't done all that great with boundaries, I haven't made it all that easy either because I throw on the breaks at the very last minute. He's completely correct in that statement. I'm putting it ALL on him when we're together, and that's not fair either.

Maw,

Why am I so upset? Because he sounded so sure over the weekend that he'd decided I was the one he wanted in his life, and last night some of his answers said exactly the opposite to me. No, he hasn't agreed to marry me (I told you guys it was an "almost" proposal, not the real thing), but that's not the issue. The issue is that he also won't agree to wait longer because the frustration is too much for him. THAT's what I'm upset about, because I feel like my only choice is to just end things now, and I love him dearly. I truly do want to spend the rest of my life with him. So I am caught between a rock and a hard place and it hurts like h*ll.

GG,

My problem with prayer is that I can think of scant few times in my life where I've prayed for something very serious and it's ever actually happened. Generally, no matter what I pray or how much it seems to follow what I believed to be God's will, it just doesn't happen.

You know, if I wanted to get into the whole "election" theory about Christianity (the issue that sent me on my only other huge spiritual downward spiral a few years ago until I finally just let it go and said, "I'm seeking God, therefore even if "election" is true, I shouldn't worry because I wouldn't be seeking if I werent "elect")...I could start to really feel like I wasn't called of God, and that there is no hope for me, that no matter how hard I try I will never find what I'm looking for simply because I'm not His. (Thankfully, I haven't totally adopted that philosophy, but it does come back and haunt me at times like this.)

Did I want God to force "R" to marry me? No. Did I want him to change his heart and help him past his fears of moving things faster if he truly did feel I was the right person, "yes". That's what I thought had happened this weekend, but it would appear it didn't.

How do I feel about wishing I'd stop breathing? I don't have big problems with that. I've pretty much reached the point where I'd like to just throw my hands up and give up. My daughter isn't even staying at home at night, because I've refused to let her boyfriend who is now back from SLC stay at our house. Holding my ground, but not furthering any relationship with her. My son is an adult in his second year of college. He is all but independent. One doesn't need my help; the other wants nothing to do with it unless it means I let her do exactly what she wants to do. I am frustrated, I am in love with a man but it's breaking my heart because of the situation, and it appears that the only way through it is going to cause even more excrutiating pain. I'm tired of pain. I want it to end, and believe me, if I died and went to Heaven right now, that's sounding pretty darned good.

LH,

All I can say is that I don't know what my plans are. I truly don't. I had toyed with the idea of saying, "R, let's look at June, not March. I know you say you can't, but if you truly believe I'm the right person, we can find a way to make it that long, and will give both of us time to figure out if this is right and how to go about it."

On the other hand, I feel like I should just shoot the thing in the head and be done.

The third option, marry him if he asks me and take my chances.

Truly, I have no answers. They all make my stomach churn.

Kam,

The reason I'm feeling so awful right now is because I'm torn with what to do about "R". Ever since I pulled the sex from the relationship, it's been very difficult for both of us because he's been torn by what to do and I've been fearing he'll leave me because of it, and that's very hard to face when you love someone and had hope of spending your life with them. Up until then, I wasn't having extreme anxiety issues, in fact I was feeling good enough that I opted (stupidly) to go off my antidepressants. Yes, I am a worrier, and do let things get to me, and I'll tend to dwell on them and think in circles. But this whole breakdown only came after our relationship went into it's crisis.

I want to believe that God wants the best for me. I just would like some proof of that someday. Everyone has troubles, but my sis and my mom have commented on how it would seem I've had far more than my share over the past 20 years, and they've questioned from time to time how I've held up under some of it. Okay, God has kept me going apparently, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to want to continue on because I'm losing hope that anything I truly desire in life will ever go right.

LL

haha... don't know why it just came to mind. The movie Bruce Almighty. If you think you can do better, try it for a week. LOL Good movie, really. Have u seen it? Remember the scene where he breaks down on his knees and surrenders everything to God.... he gives up trying to control everything?

Why not try praying for peace and serenity and strength to handle and accept whatever is supposed to happen?

You know what the answer is, but you continue to deny your inner voice....

Have you ever read the book In The Meantime by Inyala Vanzant? I suggest you do. Seriously.

Good luck
DW

HUGS, LL. You are not foresaken, and you are called, even though I'm not Calvinistic.

You know, I prayed and prayed to God I wouldn't have to file for divorce. I wanted God to make B. cheat, to make B. file, to have a bus run over B. Yep, even the last one. Finally, I realized God was having none of my nonsense. He insisted I take responsibility for my own health and well-being. It was really hard for me. Just as working on my marriage had been really hard. But, I know He knew best.

Asking God to change R's heart may be nothing short of asking God to change R himself. It's really hard to tell. Also, God is all good, all knowing. He knows what's best and because he's all good, he'll do it. I believe that with all my heart. I also believe a lot of times it's going to look to me like God is screwing up royally simply because I can't see the whole picture.

You are seeing a teeny tiny snippet of a picture right now. You don't know what's best. You only know what you want right now.

We want what we want. Like right now, I want a really big piece of chocalate cake. However, since chocolate cake isn't here and isn't good for me anyway, I'm going to work at something else... grilled shrimp.

Maybe, you could realign what you're focusing on. Maybe you should put R at the bottom of the pile for a while. Yeah, you want him. But as you pointed out, you've done without a lot the things you wanted, and you're still alive.

After all, what's love got to do with it? We know that you can fall out of love if you don't allow someone to make deposits. We know we can fall in love with a wide pool of people. Unfortunately, all of us here also know we can live through heartbreak and disappointment.

Successful romantic love is not our life's purpose.

I know I sound cold and hard. I'm not really. I know there's lead brick in your stomach and a walnut stuck in your throat. I know you ache and wonder why this has to happen to you. That's okay. That's normal.

But you also need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. So this guy may not work out. So what? You know there's a lot of other men out there who will work out. You'll be in love again. It wasn't so long ago you thought you'd never love anyone but your X. Isn't it nice to know that's not the case?

R did email me. I emailed him back. Nothing big, other than he wanted to know what was up with me last night and why I couldn't just take a chill pill and enjoy the ride. I told him I like rollercoasters but they make me queasy after a while, and that I am mulling over the answers from last night. Left it at that.

So I'm supposed to be working but have been following some links to some sites on sexual addiction. I see a few tendencies in him, mainly how he obsesses over sex. But I followed a link to another link, and the one I'm posting below is the reason I have my spiritual struggles and what is striking my fear into me.

It's not just that I may need to give up "R", but is much more. I've always feared the "narrow gate" statements in the Bible, and I take a much more conservative approach to who is truly saved than many others do. I think there are a lot of people who think they're saved because they've trusted in Christ's blood to save them, but they haven't submitted themselves to his Lordship (and I'm so afraid I fall into this category even though I so badly want him to save me).

I don't buy my pastor's statement that some people may barely make it to Heaven with their robe smoking, but that they'll make it. And this is truly why I question my own salvation, because I have not submitted 100% of my life to Christ, I don't deny myself and take up my cross daily, and I do sin...repeatedly.

If anyone cares to do a little reading, here's the link:

http://www.purelifeministries.org/Unchained/2005/Dec_05/Features/Other_Writers/Pink_Narrow_Way.htm

LL

Lordslady - Give yourself a break... my you are gonna drive yourself nuts... just sit back relax... You can only Control YOU not the universe or the people that live in it...... Maybe you should look into that chill pill because from where I am sitting you are causing all of your own misery right now....

D-R-A-M-A

Can we say it all together??

Alluring and Maw,

Well said.

LL, your life's plan doesn't have to be decided/played out by 3/06 or even 6/06. There's a lot to be said for enjoying the moment, the day, the week, the month, and yes, even the year. Soak it all up. Choose to be happy! If it causes stress, let it go....Thrive on the good stuff of life.

Upandrunning
M 18 years
Filed 3/04, Divorced 11/05

What you want is to be happy. Right?

LL, whether you are by yourself or married to the kindest, richest, most handsome, most spiritually perfect man on the earth, you won't be happy until you work on YOUR ISSUES.

Until you deal with the issues in your life, you will not have any successful relationship. Not w/ R. Maybe not even with God. Get right with yourself. Go to the shrink. Look in your mirror.

You take your car to the shop and you want it fixed. That means that you have to have working parts put in the car. So, you have broken relationships. You want healthy ones. That means you have to have properly working people.

Until you reach the point of being emotionally healthier (and I do not think you are emotionally healthy at this point), you will continue to have these massively broken relationships.

There is no relationship counseling that can help you build a healthy relationship unless you are both healthy people. And any man who would decide to marry you so he can have sex with you is NOT all that healthy, either.

People have already said most of what I wanted to say, but there are several points I wish to emphasize...

First, regarding the recognition of what is or is not an answer to prayer, I agree with what others have said about it being unwise to assume that just because something happens which could possibly be interpreted as matching a request, it should be interpreted in that manner. Heck, I could pray that the sun will rise tomorrow morning, but it won't be much of an answer to prayer if that's what happens. Or, I could flip a coin and pray that it comes down heads, but should I conclude that God chose to answer or deny my prayer on the basis of how it actually does come down? Personally, I find it more reasonable to believe that God refuses to play those sorts of games.

Remember, James 4:2-3 says "And yet the reason you don't have what you want is that you don't ask God for it. And even when you do ask, you don't get it because your whole motive is wrong--you want only what will give you pleasure." We can expect an answer to prayer only when our purpose goes beyond our selfish desires. Not that there is anything wrong with receiving pleasure; Jesus himself said "My purpose is to give life in all its fulness." But it is only when our desires are aligned with God's heart and what will bring Him glory that our prayer life can be truly effective.

Of course (and this something I personally find scary), sometimes God may choose to grant a request even though it is not what He would choose for us. See I Samuel 8, for example. I think sometimes this is the only way He can break through our stubbornness, so that we can learn to see how much wiser He is than we are.

In your case, lordslady, the concessions which R is now considering (whether seriously or just because he hopes your boundaries may perhaps shift a bit if you can persuade yourself that you are "practically engaged" - don't forget that he has a history of saying what you want to hear without being entirely sincere) appear to follow much more from a thought process of "what do I have to do to get what I want" than from a newfound passion to make choices which would honor you and God. Is that really what you were praying for, lordslady? What should you have been praying for?

I hope that you would want much more than that. Although, how much you can legitimately ask is another facet of the question. Greengables made the excellent point that "asking God to change R's heart may be nothing short of asking God to change R himself." And I don't believe God does such things; He gave us free will and He will not take it back. He may push and prod and whack us over the head with a 2x4 so that we are totally miserable when we forge ahead on our own foolish path, but the choice remains ours.

One thing I think it is safe to say: if we are tempted to suspect that God is pushing us or "helping" us in a direction which is contrary to His Word and His principles, we are mistaken (Acts 10 notwithstanding). As far as I can determine, R still shows no interest in being any kind of spiritual leader. He seems to have a certain grudging intellectual respect for your own principles, but I have an extremely difficult time believing that God would be enthusiastic about that kind of match-up. Sure, R could experience a turnaround somewhere along the road and get serious about his "faith," but it would be the height of foolishness to count on that.

You would perhaps be "comfortable" with R. But can you truly expect him to help you on your own spiritual journey, unless it be through what incidental growth adversity may bring? Do you really want to walk the "Narrow Way" alone?

And speaking of Mr. Pink's "Narrow Way," I think it needs to be balanced with Paul's perspective in Romans 7:14-25. Mr. Pink justifiably censures those who wish to claim all the benefits of Christian faith without any intention of paying the price of discipleship. But perfection is one goal of the journey, not the prerequisite for setting out.

I say it's one goal, because the journey should be about much more than "not sinning." It should really be about walking with God, because there's no one better to walk with.

Not even R.

Oh, and by the way, lordslady, I hope that comment about gloating was just an attempt at an expression of dark humor. I know it may feel sometimes like we're all set against you, but surely you know that we have your best interests at heart. {{{lordslady}}}

And how is lordslady today?

L.L.

I do understand what a blow this is for you. I'm really sorry.

I am glad you get the opportunity to deal with it now, before you have had to make life changing decisions. I would have given anything to have known before I married H and the blow after the fact was completely devastating.

The comments about God and your faith. Am I to understand that you want to follow God and do his will but you are angry that his will isn't your way or in your time. I'm not sure it works like that. If you are looking for answers from God maybe what he is trying to tell you is you are NOT ready for M. Maybe he is telling you the same things we all have been here. Get healthy, get your life straightened out and get your beliefs and faith right with God. Good things will come. Maybe you are ignoring Gods messengers right here at MB.

Hugs,
Symphony

HUH? Where did June come from? I was thinking that someone had shot out a date of September, am I incorrect? If you were thinking September and pushed your own boundary to June and that still isn't good enough and this relationship ain't worth waiting an additional 3 months for, then what does that say?



Again, what about all the previous red flags, do they get weight in this decision? None of them seem to have been dealt with, rather pushed aside for the "Problem of the Week", yet they are all still there. So add this latest revelation that he won't wait any additional time to marry you because he wants to get laid in March (Another Red Flag) and he's admitted to feeling forced into marriage (Another Red Flag) to the growing list we've already established and where are you at? What's changed? To me the only thing that has changed is we've added more red flags but nothing else.



In this case, that seems like the best option....



A lifetime of drama, that is what you'd sign up for. Again, look at the list I posted you. If that list was 1 or 2 items y'all could work out in a month, then heck yeah, Get 'Er Did... But it ain't and they won't go away, they will be masked for a while tucked away neatly but will come back again and will be the things y'all trip over. You can't run from yourself forever.

PS.... Did you happen to look at your communication with him about this, it's his way or no way... Hmmmm...... Sounds pretty positive and promising to me...

“””Nothing big, other than he wanted to know what was up with me last night and why I couldn't just take a chill pill and enjoy the ride.”””

Awesome communication, he validated your feelings and communicated positively working to alleviate your concerns, fears, and anxiety…… Oh wait, nevermind, he did nothing of the sort, in fact he threw your feelings out the window as invalid and wrong. Is that the communication style you desire in a partner?

I am a little overwhelmed at work lately and if I sit and type here too long, it just gets worse, and then I feel guilty because I'm not giving my all to my job. So this may be my only post until later tonight.

I didn't break up with "R" last night. In fact, I don't know if it's going to happen at all.

We had a much better conversation. He did more of the talking. I expressed some concerns, one of which is that I feel like we really need more time than March if we decide to do this thing because I really want us to be sure and I DON'T EVER WANT TO DIVORCE AGAIN! I again threw out "how about late May or June?" And then we just moved on to more conversation, so he didn't say "no" but neither did he say "yes".

We more talked about our expectations and desires about marriage, and I talked a little more about how important it is for me to be able to look back and see growth in my self as a Christian and how I want someone who understands and supports that. And I also expressed my fear of being married and having him bolt at the first sign of trouble, because we didn't go about it right in the beginning. That statement and ones like it forever frustrate him because as he has said, "LL, I've had several fairly significant things come up with you since we started dating. Have I bolted yet?" No, he hasn't. (And yes, a lot of guys if they found out right before I met them for the first time that I was afraid I might be PG by someone else, and then they found out about my past, and then they found out about my daughter and her issues, and then I abruptly pulled sex out of the relationship...this all in the first 5 months...there are a lot of men who would have thrown in the towel and said "it's not worth it". So he does deserve a little credit for sticking it out and trying to give me the benefit of the doubt to prove myself. But I also totally understand how that is a big part of why he wanted more time to get to know me, to get past those red flags.)

Anyway, we are still seeing each other as of this point. And I've gone rounds with asking myself what do I feel I need to do, and what would be best from God's perspective.

Well, if I'm going to completely deny myself, it would seem that I should give up him and any other man or anything at all that would take away my time from God, and that I should spend my entire day immersed in the Word, and prayer, and do nothing else. (Be a nun, for example, except I'm not Catholic nor am I a virgin.) So I have to resolve all that.

If I take a less strict approach, I still haven't concluded that he's just out-and-out the wrong guy for me and that I need to drop him (I know that goes totally against what most of you think). I DO think we need more time than March, though. I think part of what was making me so sick yesterday was the panic of thinking I have less than 3 months to figure all this out and to jump into a life-long commitment. Even 2-3 additional months would be a lot better. That would put us very close to having known each other for a year, which to me seems a reasonable time if you've been exclusive that entire time, and it would give me longer to see the therapist to get my head on straighter.

Pre-marital counseling would definitely be a "must". I'd like to start back into our study of "A Purpose Driven Life" which maybe we could do as a part of our dating. My other thought would be that perhaps we should only see each other, say, every 3rd weekend...and then work in a weeknight meeting each week for dinner in a town that is about the half-way point for the two of us (we've met there a few times in the past). And finally, it is an absolute MUST that I figure out how to not take things right to the very edge of my boundaries and then slam on the brakes. I need to be braking right at the beginning.

The final thing I'd like to see us do is pray together for for God's guidance in this whole situation.

I have not proposed ANY of this to him, other than trying to slip in that statement about waiting a few more months. I'm not sure how to bring it up, because I am the queen of "foot-in-mouth". I chose to keep things calm last night because I needed an evening without "DRAMA" (as some of you like to call it. I really would like a different word. That one grates on me for some reason.)

I have a feeling if I suggest that he has to wait until say the very end of May, that he'll balk. I need to figure out a way to explain it such that he can see that it makes a lot more sense to deal with his "frustration" for 2-3 extra months than it does to jump into something that neither of us are totally prepared for.

Still very scared of how this is all going to play out. But at least at this second feeling like I have a plan to propose to him that would make me a lot more comfortable than the current one does.

I'm still making no promises to either you guys or him or anyone else because I'm still just too unsure of things.

But that's the update for now.

LL