I'm new to the forum but have been lurking for awhile. Short history: In July my wife starts avoiding me. I questioned why and she said she's been unhappy for years and should have said something long ago. She said she needed to see a counselor. I supported her in this and asked if there was anything I could do to help. She started seeing IC. Said it was helpful to her. In August I find text message from guy. Very personal and informal. Says "from a guy who likes you likes you." I questioned it. She says he's just a friend. I let it go but keep watching. I find out she's in email contact with old highschool BF. She says he's just a friend too. Late August the counselor tells her to let me, her husband know how she feels so she writes me a long (8 page) letter saying how she doesn't love me and maybe never did. She says we would have split up long ago if not for the kids. I decide to try plan A stuff on the assumption of an affair. I later found more confirmation in form of text messages. She said it wasn't physical. That doesn't make me feel better. She's been staying out late at bars with her friends. Seems like a different person from less than a year ago. She avoids me as much as possible and has asked me to move out of the house. I have not, saying that I want to make things better. Anybody have any ideas. This is getting very old and taking a toll.
Me 37
Her36
DD 7
DS 4

First...don't move out. PERIOD.

If she wants to leave, you can't stop her, but you CAN stop her from taking the kids, and there is no way she can remove you from the house unless there has been some sort of abuse.

If you leave, you lose both a legal and emotional high ground. And it's very hard to regain either of those...so do NOT leave.

Just because 'it's not physical' really means nothing. It's still an affair. These are called 'emotional affairs', and are every bit as marriage destroying as a physical one.

Have you told anyone else (your family, her family, mutual friends, etc...) about the nature of her communications with these OM (other men)? If not, then sit down and work out a plan to do so. This is called exposure...and it's devestating to people trying to carry on a secret affair. When you talk to your family and friends and such, make it clear what's wrong with how she's communicating with these men, and that you're not telling them to get 'revenge' on your wife, but to ask their aid in helping to end contact with these men.

Does she use a cell phone that you pay for or have access to the online invoice? If so, print out and/or copy that invoice and save it someplace safe that she can't get to. And use that to track the length/frequence of her calls. You can also use this to get more information on the OM as well.

Do you own the car she drives? If so, the consider getting a digital voice activated recorder and hiding it in her car, like under the passenger seat. You can use this to hear her side of her conversations...this might not be legal in court, but it IS a method for you to learn what's going on.

How about home computers? Does she email or IM from them? If so, get a good keylogger program installed so that you can track her email/IM accounts, logins, passwords, etc...

You might even consider seeking a good IC for yourself here as well.

LHL,

Welcome to the marriagebuilders forum. Sorry you have to find yourself here, but it is a good place with warm-hearted experienced people who can help you.

First of all, read everything you can on this site.

It sounds very likely that your wife is involved in an emotional affair, if not physical. Emotional affairs, like physical affairs, are like a cancer to a marriage and rob it of its potential to promote positive growth and emotional nourishment. Emotional affairs are easier to disguise as harmless and thus more difficult to battle.

Please read the link in my signature about what is called Plan A. Do continue to post here. Do some discreet investigation on a possible A, gather evidence. Let us know what you find out. There are tried and proven tools and techniques not just to save your marriage here, but turn it into a better relationship that either of you may think possible.

I have keylogger on the computer. That gave me access to the internet email password to discover the highschool BF stuff. Her conversations with him are very personal and somewhat flirtatious. She's become very flirtatious with men lately. She knows all the bartenders, doormen, and local cops in town. She's done a personal style change as well. Went from being a very conservative dresser to dressing like a teenager, getting a new hairdo and wearing lots of perfume on her evenings out. She goes out with her friends as often as she can. We've been to two different MCs and neither one was worth a second visit. It always ended up with me obviously trying to repair the marriage and her trying to get me to move out. She says: "love is like a plant. We both stopped watering it and now it is dead". How can I do plan A when she won't talk to me? She never initiates conversation except when she wants me to do a task. If I try to talk to her I get one word answers and no eye contact. She's in withdrawal from me. It is very hard to get her to answer the phone when I call from work. She's a SAHM.
Me 37
Her 36
dd 7
ds 4

Whatever you do, DO NOT MOVE OUT!!! For if you do, you might as well give up on your M and CHILDREN.

Will you commit to stay in your house...WITH THE CHILDREN?

Seems to me like maybe some of her emotional needs weren't being met, and she has now found a way to meet them.

Have you checked out the emotional needs section to see if you can meet some of hers?

Thanks everyone for responding. I have no plans to move out. She says she thinks our best shot at getting back on track is if I move out. I think that sounds like she wants me out so she doesn't have to be as sneaky, plus I'd lose daily contact with my kids. I just wonder what to do next. She won't talk to me or let me touch her. She's as completely withdrawn from me as one can be and still be in the same house. We do still sleep in the same bed. No touching or anything. She usually waits until I'm asleep before she gets in. One interesting note: She said the guy I suspect of being the OM is really my best friend because he's the only person counseling her to stay with me.(He is separated from his wife and tells her the separation/divorce scenario is too painful so he doesn't want my W to subject herself to it. Several of my wife's girlfriends are divorced with kids. She says they understand the way she feels about not being in love with me anymore. How can I meet her emotional needs in this situation. Any advice appreciated greatly.

Ok, now that we agree that you will be staying home, it is time to get down to business. In other words, you need to start Plan A. Plan A has two prongs: (1) meeting the ENs your are allowed to meet and (2) busting up the A.

As Believer suggests, learn all you can on this site about ENs, determine your WW’s ENs, and try to meet them. You need to get on with this ASAP.

Second, you need to snoop and confirm with whom your WW is having an A with. Then expose to her parents and OMW or OMSO. If you do not bust the A, there won’t be any progress in your sitch. Thus, you need to work on this part while simultaneously trying to meet her needs.

These are good starting points in trying to save your M.

68

My wife had an affair with her high school boyfriend also and we are recovered now. It was a battle and luckily our marriage prevailed. Our story is not available on-line but if you want more just email me at my address below.

The best thing you can do besides calling Dr. Harley himself is to continue posting and heeding the advice given. The MB principles are the best known principles to marital recovery. If you've been reading here awhile you are probably well aware of many of the concepts. Now that your posting we will be encouraging you to follow through and follow through you must. Doing nothing will insure only that nothing will change.

You and your wife have no idea how she really feels about you and the marriage until she pulls her head out of the fog and begins to really delve into your marital problems and see if they can be worked out. To get to that point you must bust up the affair.

You must expose. Without forewarning or threats and in one swoop so as to minimize the anger and acheive the greatest impact.

You must stay home... Get your legal house in order and fight for custody. The custody battle is not to be vindictive...you can always share custody down the road IF YOU CHOOSE...but for now you must protect your children from your WW inappropriate choices and the consequences to their mental stability should you enable and go along with WW choices. In so doing you are creating a "magnet" to attract WW back home to you and the kids to see if things can be worked out (albeit after No Contact is established).

Keep reading and posting.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

ps-I am on vacation through the 3rd so I will only be checking in periodically

By staying in the house, don't I lose the option of a plan B? How do you go dark if plan A doesn't work. There may not be an easy answer here. Just wondering if anyone has encountered this situation.
BS me 37
WS 36
DD 7
DS 4

Plan B is months down the road, 68. And by then, she will have either responded to your Plan A, or be so addicted, that her anger will lead her to be stupid and move out herself. Look at DazedandConfusedks thread. My wife did the same thing. This is an addiction, and the addict will do anything to get their high.

Stay in the house, expose to everyone associated with you all, and with OM. And Plan A your butt off. Remember Plan A is NOT being a doormat! You do not have to sit quietly and take abuse or her infidelity. The object of Plan A is to break up the affair. In order to do that, you must expose and you must begin to meet her important emotional needs so that you deposit love into her bank. Then she becomes addicted to you again also. Then she will have a painful decision to make...either way she goes.

To come out of the fog of this addiction, there must be pain. No way around that. Read and learn on how to do a proper Plan A.

Then when it is time, we can help you prepare for Plan B.

In His arms.

What do you make of this?
WW says she no longer believes in God. (She used to be devout Catholic. I converted when we got engaged 14 years ago.) She was very dedicated to family. Enjoyed making stuff for the house, taking care of the kids, cooking complicated things. Now she wants to talk to her friends on the phone during the day and go out to bars at night while I stay with the kids. Is this kind of total personality change normal? She has told me "I'm not a nice person. I'm just really bad for you right now. You should go out and find someone who loves you because you deserve that." What does that mean?

Exactly MM

Just stay in the home and worry about Plan A for now.

Have you fully exposed??? I know this is scary but it is an important tool. Affairs thrive in secrecy. The fantasy of an easy divorce and "life goes on" is easy for the infidels to imagine when there are no "judging" eyes all around them. They also no longer get to lay the ground work with friends and family that your marriage is "just not working out". Instead they are stuck defending themselves. They are forced to sneak around with their "friend"...everything just becomes more uncomfortable and less fun with OM.

Again, have you exposed?????

Mr. Wondering

It means she is hiding from God.

I second what MM and Mr. W said about exposure. It is ruinous to affairs. I would first call the OM's W and have a little chat with her. It is real common for affair partners to lie about their marital status. The OM probably has even been told that you are seperated, and perhaps just living together. You should ally yourself with the OMW, if possible, and work to bust up this affair.

BTW,

You should also be journaling everything going on as your wife ignore her motherly duties in pursuit of OM. They all do this. You should be fully engaged in the childrens schooling...attending all events, driving them around, developing relationships with the teachers or other care providers. They may be asked to testify in a custody hearing someday and you have an uphill battle to defeat a SAHM. You may need to begin hiding a voice activated digital tape recorders around your home to gather evidence of infidelity and "abuse" (or just "lack of care).

Consult with your attorney. Know the laws pertaining to divorce and custody. Many of these laws are researchable on-line. What state are you in?

I am not suggesting you set out to destroy your wife only battle the Wayward Wife so perhaps you can get your wife and real caring mother of your children back.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Mr. Wondering,
I'm in North Carolina. Work is an hour away from home so she does nearly all the school stuff. Also makes it easy for her to be sure I won't show up til the end of the day. She says she's built a life independent of me and she likes it that way. I still pay for everything though so that must count for something. I wonder who she thinks is going to stay with the kids while she bar hops if she leaves me and takes them?

It is all fog babble. It means nothing. If she doesnt believe in God, then she never did!

She is right about one thing...she is not a nice person right now. no one in an affair is a nice person at the time. They are selfish and destructive. Ignore the fog babble (you will have to learn on how to read fog babble as you go). As Mr W said, you are trying to get to your wife. The WW stands in your way. And the WW NEVER makes sense.

In His arms.

Are you going to expose or not?

UVA,
Yes. I have let her parents and brother know that I've seen text messages from OM. I don't have any proof that it is more than inappropriate talk at this point. I've kept quiet about it to friends. I guess I need more evidence to be sure. She's gotten pretty secretive about the cell phone. Got really mad once when she saw me looking at it. I know she met this particular OM in June and has called him as recently as Christmas. I think they both fear legal/custody problems if they get caught for real. (He has 3 kids and is separated according to WW.) She also says he's "no longer an issue". This has not improved her attitude toward me, though. Me, WW and both kids are going to a New Years party at one of her divorced girlfriends home. I was told I could go or stay home. She was going with the kids regardless. How does one break through her emotional withdrawal and establish communication with the person I KNOW is still inside somewhere?
BS Me 37
WW 36
DD 7
DS 4