Hi, LHL68.

Quote:
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Also makes it easy for her to be sure I won't show up til the end of the day.
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So, it's high time you start showing up unexpectedly.

All the best,
Gimble

You do need more proof adequate for court presentation in the event of a custdody dispute. Go to Radio Shack and get a Voice Activated DIGITAL voice recorder. Pay with cash and hide the receipt as this may not be legal in your state and you do not want to get caught by WW or anyone. Hide it around the house or in her car and you will likely get all the proof you need. You are likely to hear a lot of negative stuff about you...it's all fog talk, rationalizations, justifications, rewriting of history, etc. Don't take it personally.

In North Carolina she needs a 1 year separation before she can get a divorce. She can not presently even file for legal separation based upon what I read. Stick to your guns...and fight the good fight. Make her be the bad guy and pursue moving out or otherwise filing something.

Here is a link to a website I refer to often describing each states divorce laws.... [color:"blue"] North Carolina Divorce laws [/color]

Your exposure is not yet complete but it would assist to get more evidence so as to avoid the typical WS and OM response that you are just a jealous obsessive husband and they are just "friends".

If you got the money perform a background check on OM. If you are not sure how just ask for help here and someone will post to you how to do it.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

She absolutely won't speak to me. Almost complete silent treatment for four months now. Two months of acting weird before that. I have recorder in car now to try for phone conversation evidence of affair. Found receipts from store mens department and she didn't get anything for me. So far it looks like overwhelming circumstantial evidence but nothing she can't lie her way out of. I can't live like this forever. It's like a slow death. Life is actually better at work, but then I wonder what's going on at home.
BS me 37
WW 36
DD 7
DS 4

Lost love,

Saw you posting again on "just found out" and wondered why you didn't just update this thread. Much more activity over here.

I was on vacation over the holidays but I'm around more now so please give us an update here and let's see if we can help you.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. Wondering,
I took your advice and put a digital recorder in her car. 1st time out it came back with 20min. conversation with the OM I originally suspected. He seems to be backing off from her somewhat. He says their relationship is complicated. WW made a New Years Resolution for OM. She said he should resolve to " spend more naked time with her". He responded noncommittally. She's pursuing him and flirting like crazy the whole conversation, pretending to be interested in the car show he was watching on TV and everything! Yesterday I put the recorder under her night table by the bed. Recorder picked up another 20min conversation with a different OM! This conversation was mostly about the sexual encounter they had earlier the same day. My son has morning pre-school on Thursdays so she must have gone to meet him while son was in school. She's got 8:00 to 11:00am kid free on Thursdays. She asked him if he stayed up at night thinking of new things to do to her. She said that one thing he did "left me speechless!, I was about to say something but it just flew right out of my head when you did that!" She asked if he noticed changes in her breasts. etc. etc. She mentioned the name of the 1st OM to this guy in the context of a friend so that how I know this was a different OM! Now I'm looking for a PI to get me third party confirmation of all this stuff. What do you think this is all about? She used to be such a proper and conservative person. Now she's acting extremely sleazy. I had now idea it was more that one OM. I think what's going on is a former PA current EA with first OM and PA with 2nd OM. Aaargh!
ME BS 37
WW 36
DD 7
DS 4

Get the PI to get the damaging info. Also, on those days that you know that she has that time free. it might be time to skip work that day and do your own snooping. Then it will be time for exposure to everyone! But get the intel first.

I am sure both OMs will love the fact they are being played.

In His arms.

Oh my God. Yeah, you have to get an investigator ASAP. Don't delay. Do it today. You need to get positive information in case you have to remove the children from that environment. Start a journal, sir. Make sure you enter the information that she dropped son off at pre-school so she could have sex with a second man. Start documenting times she sees other men instead of being with her children.

Talk to an attorney immediately. Your children’s welfare must be safeguarded.

Also, if it applies in your state of residence, I'm sure your attorney will tell you this. The thing is if you have sex with your wife after becoming fully aware of her adultery, you legally "condone" the adultery. Please keep that in mind, particularly if you think a separation or divorce might be the ultimate outcome. Can some of the legal-smart folks out here comment?

You need to get checked for STDs. There’s a thread out here about the implications of STDs as a result of adultery. Read up on it.

Our thoughts are with you.

Do you think an attorney would have contacts to recommend an investigator? I need good proof before I know anything specific to my WW.
ME BS 37
WW 36
DD 7
DS 4

Why not have a family get together with your WW, MIL/FIL/SIL/BIL...perhaps a few close friends of the family...and then sit down and tell them all that your wife has been involved in at least one, apparently two inappropriate relationships with other men. Tell them that you need their help in convincing her to end what she's doing and to help her to do what it takes to rebuild your marriage.

Then play the tapes for them.

In front of your wife.

It sounds to me like you've got enough already to expose to family and friends...I'd start with that. And the idea of doing with where she absolutely cannot refute what's going on makes a lot of sense to me.

Unfortunately, her family is about 600 miles away. If I had the information a few weeks earlier I could have done that over Christmas. Merry Christmas! Not sure when my next opportunity to do a family get together will be.
BS me 37
WW 36
DD 7
DS 4

Certainly, but you can probably find any number of investigators in the yellow pages.

You might be suprised at how expensive they are. If your sittin' on a pile of money...hire them. The documentation is worth it. If not, tape some more...get copies of phone bills, cell records, and the like. Once you've confirmed a rendevous ...show up. She'll still deny it...even if you catch them in bed. Then you bluff that you've already hired a private investigator and you have pictures and video of OM#1 and OM#2, here and there. You have copies of intercepted phone calls she made on "portable" phones and/or cell phones and YOU KNOW IT ALL. Do this face to face, with OM there or preferably alone. Without time to think she should break down and you'll have your D-Day.

Read up on here and/or ask questions about how to have a proper D-Day. Do not get violent. Stay in control of yourself and do not become desparate.

So sorry my advice led to this startling revelation but I am glad you know the truth and can now make decisions about YOUR LIFE with all the information at hand.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks for the good advice. I LB'd some tonight. It was the first I'd seen her since discovering OM#2. She brought both kids home from the bar she hangs out at around 10:30pm. Kids get put to bed then she says shes's going back to the bar, will be home by midnite if OK w/me. I said I don't care when she comes home. She looked surprised and said "really?" in an arch way. Then gone. I've seen her awake for a grand total of 5min. today. Sure she spoke w/OMs for an hour at least. How do I compete with that for plan A?
BS me 37
WW 36
DD 7
DS 4

Cut and paste all of your comments here to a word file. That will show her actions. That is your documentation.
Get yourself a good digital camera and take off the day from work on her kid free day. You will get your intel the first time I suspect. Together with the tapes you recorded, bingo, affair confirmed. Pick up a cheap mike and record the tapes to a wav file. Do your exposure to those living away by email. Don't have to play the whole tape, just a portion. Then expose to anyone who can have an impact.
Good Luck

Lost,

Go see an attorney and play HIM/HER the tape and determine if you need more information. The attorney will have a good idea of how to proceed with a PI or just continue to tape.

I would NOT tell your W of the tape until you see the attorney. I would definitely go for custody given she spends her free time in bars and making it with a variety of men. I would suspect that in NC as in VA, that if you can prove adultery that the divorce happens much faster than 1 year.

Get your ducks in a row, talk to an attorney and depending on what he says you then call her parents and your parents and explain that she has been having affairs with different men and that your attorney has the evidence. If you want to save this marriage, you then inform her parents and your parents that you want to save this marriage.

Someone mentioned not having sex with her at this point. I some states that wipes the slate clean. Speak with your attorney NOW. And get a good one, not a cheap one. Good attorneys can save you a lot more money that a lousy one will cost you.

Time for action.

God Bless,

JL

68,

JL and others bring up some good points. Rather than give you more to do or repeat what they have said, I want to let you know that what you really need now is to become a tactician. At this point, most BSs run around like a chicken with its head cut off. You cannot afford to do that.

Everything you do, you need to sit down and plan out. Bring it on here and vet it also. Plan out what the next three things you will do and why they should be the next three things. determine what her reaction will be to your actions. And then plan for what you will do in response to her reactions. By planning in this way, you will take much of your emotions out of your decisions and reactions. And you will determine the best way to go long before it actually happens.

Then by bringing your plans on here, we can help add things you may not have seen or knew about.

You are going to have to get smart about these things. About affairs. About the MB principles, about Plan A, Plan B, emotional needs. You need to spend a lot of time studying other threads on here and how those others' situations went.

You asked above how you can compete with what the OMs are providing. Look, you are her husband. You are married to her. You have children together. You have history. The OMs have none of that. You will have to determine what ENs they are meeting and try to meet them yourself, if you can. Also figure out what it is that love busted her and made her look elsewhere. Maybe you work too much and need a career change. I dont know. This is a part of your planing, to understand how you got here and what part you played in the degradation of your marriage. Notice I didnt say what part you played in the affair. You played NO part in that, as that was entirely her decision!

On intelligence gathering...

Please do not play or discuss those tapes with anyone that you do not trust. Your attorney is fine. Your family. But her family...even her...while it will show that she is in an affair (several), it also will close your ability to get further intelligence, as she will make sure she cannot be taped, etc.

disclosure should be a matter of fact. Instead of "I have tapes of her talking to OMs..." you should be saying that "due to intelligence gathering that I authorized, I have irrefutable proof of her affairs with at least two men." Your WW may want to know what you have. You tell her that isnt important, that you both know what she has done and said and what she is doing. Sure, you dont have ALL of the information. But just telling her a little bit of what you know (something that wont point to your intel gathering methods but do tell her that you know a lot...I'll give you an example below), will make her believe that you know a lot more than you do. By "bluffing" as Mr. W alluded to, then she will never know how much you know and more importantly, how you know.

Here is an example on how to tell your WW. "Honey, I know of your adultery with several men. I know when and where you have done these things. I even know much about what went on when you were together with them. I know about Pete and Bill and your relations with them just this past week. I am hurt and very disappointed. But I do love you and want our marriage and family to succeed. For the two of us and our kids. These relationships must end and the two of us must get into counseling and find a way to work through this."

Notice I never said what EXACTLY I knew, but I did name drop the two guys (remember, there may be more!). She will deny, and want to know what and how you know. You just respond "WW, you and I both know the truth so it isnt important for me to tell you what you already know."

Okay, enough said about that.

Get an attorney FAST and let him in on everything. Tell him you arent ready to write off the marriage, but you do want to protect yourself and do want the children with you...for their protection. Remember, he/she works for YOU!

Start figuring out before you expose, what you will do about the care of your kids. You had better have a plan and start being more involved. Let her stay out more...make sure you are the guy they are with. if you need to change jobs, then do it. Those kids are counting on the ONLY adult in their lives right now doing the right thing. Wake up everyday and look them in the face and resolve to do what is best for them. Even if that means leaving the job you love. Even if that means having to go thru this mess to try to rescue their mother.

Document absolutely everything. Everything you do. Everything she does and says. This will be huge in court. I believe that NC is not a fault state like Virginia, so the adultery may not matter in speeding up the process. Oh well. Unless you really want to be divorced, then it really doesnt matter. But do watch out. Now that you know about the affair, continuing to have sex with her will show condonation and you will have forgiven her in the eyes of the court. This is why you must move quickly now to get your legal, intelligence, work, kids, etc house in order. Get your plan and move quickly.

You will feel like a doormat but you arent. This is the tried and true way of saving your marriage and your family. You, as the husband and dad, are resposible for doing everything you can to save it. Ignore the crap that will come out of your WW's mouth right now. She is not your wife. An alien has taken over and will change everything that ever happened and will blame you for everything. You will need to maintain an even temper and keep repeating your mantra over and over. If you want a good start in how to do that, look at DazedandConfusedks thread. He has done a GREAT Plan A.

so, get your plan together and bring on here to vet. Get smart on these things. Get intel on your wife. This will take awhile so gird yourself for the fight.

In His arms.

Thanks for responding all. A quick update. I borrowed WW car to run to the store. Her cell phone was in the car! I checked ringtones for her contact list. OM#1 is uniquely assigned the melody I heard on the recorder. I now think he may still be the only OM. She may have initiated another call during the recording session and referred to OM#1 while talking to this second person. There are some garbled parts, for instance, when DS4 comes in to ask something. The second half of the recording is free of sex chat. So one OM is better than two I guess. At least it fits the standard WW template. My recorder is deployed in her car today. Further intel gathering and reading up on affairs and MB principles are my current plans. What are thoughts on an attorney who requires a retainer ($3,000) to represent?
BS (me) 37
WW 36
DD 8
DS 4

Oh, about the sex. That hasn't happened since early August. So I haven't unwittingly condoned anything. Feels like something's definatly missing from the marriage though!

Lucky for me I had a lawyer friend that I went to for a couple of consultations and I just threw her a couple bones at each meeting. Paying $3000 up front as a "Retainer" is risky to me because if you end up not filing for divorce they will usually claim you used up $2700 in just the 3 meetings and 4 phone calls you had with them.

But others that had to actually hire an attorney may tell you otherwise.

Did you get that price over the phone? As I think it is a good idea to have a "initial consultation" before you plunk down a retainer to see if you feel comfortable with the attorney. You want to insure that the "retainer" is merely an upfront deposit on legal services to be rendered and will be returned to you if not used up. Then you want to specifically know the hourly rates they are planning on utilizing to "draw" upon that retainer.

In Detroit there is a firm that advertises a lot as a firm for men. They are a fee mill...they will find out how much money you are worth and literally bleed you dry. They are overly adversarial to insure the case goes on and on and on...merely to rack up fees.

My personal preference is the solo practitioner that is used to dealing with people without a ton of cash and willing to accept pay as you go. But you must meet him/her to know that you feel comfortable with their competency.

All and all, it is so tough to find a "good lawyer". You do not always get what you pay for in legal services. A less expensive lawyer that runs his/her own show in a small office without all the overhead I find to be the best. If you know any divorced people ask for a referral.

Mr. Wondering

Update. I retrieved the recorder from her car. WW had two cell phone calls to OM. (There's just one. The other guy is a friend.) Confirmed they had sex Tues. Wed. Thurs. of this past week. They both find it fantastic. She's so into this guy it's killing me. They discussed his tremendous stamina and their athletic sex. She said she's been neglecting her running to meet him for sex but two hours with him feels like a four mile run. How do I deal with the emotional impact of hearing this stuff and do plan A? I'm also interested in what exactly should be accomplished to have a successful D-day.