Huh uh, you don't give her an opportunity to demand that you tell no one. Nor do you have any responsibility to tell her who knows. That's not relevant to whether she stops the adultery and begins to work on the marriage. (She will say it does, but that's just fog babble. Virtually all exposed WS's say that.)

You expose to everyone who can put pressure on the affair. That includes family (yours and hers), the OMW, her workplace, and his, if there's any chance a portion of the adultery is being conducted at, or facilitated by, the workplace through emails, phone calls on company phones, etc., to your pastor/priest, etc.

Frankly, if I were you, I'd find a way to expose to the places where your wife has been going for playtime with the OM if it's not his home or apartment. Businesses, even the seediest of motels, don't want the bad name such clientele bring them. I don't know how you'd manage that; the idea just occurred to me. Maybe others could comment on this.

Forgot something. Exposure is designed to break up the adulterous affair. It's supposed to be a BOMB exploding right in the middle of their cozy little fantasy world. If you only partially expose, you give them a safe sanctuary among a group of people who don’t know the truth yet. That lets their fantasy continue for the time being. It allows them time and space to concoct stories about how you are a maniacal control freak who misinterprets a platonic friendship, for instance. You can’t allow them that free time. You expose to everyone, and as quickly, one after the other, as you can.

As far as the factual details ...she will push hard to find out how you know and harp on it incessantly...she will demonstrate anger and threaten everything to get that information. WHY? Because knowing how you got it will tell her if she has any wiggle room to deny. For example, if you said all you had were emails...she could act like they were all concocted to make you jeolous. If you only have pictures of her outside OM's house then she can claim nothing went on inside the house...sexually that is. Since she knows/believes there is no way you were actually in the bedroom with them she will search desparately for a way out.

How do you combat that? You give her bits and pieces of all your accumulated data so she gets the indication that you know absolutely everything. You say...Honey, I've had you under survellance for a couple weeks now and I know it all. Once you have sold her you do then you can get up and over the denial hurdle and begin to move forward with the truth on the table.

Unfortunately, from there who knows what your wife will do. Cry, apologize and end it. Walk out. Most likely a big emotional storm wherein she'll try to flip it on you and she'll remain firmly up on the fence. Paralyzed by her indecision and addiction.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

I have a couple of side questions for the experts out there.

1. WW has told me openly that she is a very selfish person right now and is self-indulgent. She makes no apologies for this, only suggesting that I should find a more appropriate person to have a relationship with. She thinks that would do me good. (apparently our 13 year marriage and
two small children are only minor concerns, whether or not we are "happy" is the biggie for her.) Remember, we have not had a D-day yet. Her A is still a secret she thinks.

2. My surveillance has told me that the sex in this A is absolutely the most fantastic thing she has ever experienced. From her perspective at least, the SF part of all this is extremely important. Much better than anything she ever experienced with me. (It's awfully hard to write this, but it may me important.)

Do either of these two aspects of WW affair make it special in some way that I should be considering?
Thanks!
68

Not a bit...it is textbook.

Though having heard this it find it unlikely that she will have an epiphany on D-Day and end her affair. She sounds fully addicted and you're in for a fight. Know and stick to your plan. Do a textbook exposure. Attack heavy on OM's side. Do not allow your wife to "SELL" you any of her babble. Believe nothing of what you hear and only 50% of what you see.

My wife also had the "best sex of her life with OM"...now she's having the best sex of her life with me (it actually has improved for both of us). Married couples get in a rut. We stick to formula's that work. In our hectic lives we often times short cut SF to grand finale a little too quickly. Your wife is experiencing "romantic love" in a fantasy relationship. All her senses are heightened and she's deluded herself to believe he is her soulmate. It's fog babble. You are also listening to them stoke the flames of the passion as they unknowningly and falsely stroke each others egos to ad neaseum.

Maintain your confidence. It'll be alright.

Mr. Wondering

Lost,

I don't know if you saw this earlier. Thought I'd give you a peak.



lol

My wife's honors me by indicating I had sooooooo much confidence last spring. It really wasn't so. I do think I got back up on the horse, so to speak, a little quicker than some but her infidelity shocked my system as well. I was in denial for a short time not willing to believe the obvious clues of what she was doing. I was shocked when I confronted her and she'd deny, deny and deny. I was incredulous when she rewrote our history and I allowed self-doubt to enter my heart. Luckily I found marriage builders (along with some other internet reading) which helped me devolope a plan and take back control of my life. In spite of having a plan...it didn't seem to be working and I eventually just "gave up". But I endured with my Plan A and after snooping and talking/LISTENING to my wife, I realized that none of it was about me.

"Confidence" can be found in the doing. By "MANing up" to the situation and casting aside your own insecurities you gain control over your life. You realize it is a personal journal just as much as a marital one. Your snooping should reveal just how out of touch with reality your wife is and allow you to KNOW not to believe the fog babble your wife throws at you.

Perhaps you need some confidence building mantra's so here goes:

"No"...it is not my fault - though I may be 50% or more to blame for our marital problems preceding your affair, your choice to have an extramarital relationship despite the myriad of other options available to you to address our difficulties is 100% your responsibility;

"yes"...I am lovable...I know this to be a FACT and nothing you can say or do will convince me otherwise;

"yes"...up till now you always loved me and deep down I know you still do (Although your wife may be questioning your history and picking out each bad moment you were there...trust what your mind tells you is the honest assesment of her feelings back then...for example, many couples have reservations on their wedding day...but it is lunacy to base life decisions on that 5 minutes of doubt you had back then versus the 1000's of happy moments that followed it up...you were there to - tell her you refuse to buy into her rewriting of history and reverse babble back happy moments that occurred right around the time she refers to...you can also tell her that no matter what happens you will not allow her negativity to affect your positive memories of your relationship. Tell her she can not convince you otherwise because she's trying to sell you too...to get you to go along with her fantasy.

"yes"...I am a man and as a man I define my own masculinity regardless of your actions;

"yes"...I will make it, no matter what you do or say...I will make it - I prefer to make it with you but that is your choice.

"yes"...I am her soulmate...she's just lost and confused right now...an alien addicted to her drug of choice...as her husband it is my duty and obligation to attempt to save her from ultimate destruction and in so doing I hope to save myself and my family.

"no"...I will not feel inferior to OM...neither now, nor in recovery...not ever.



Your second question refers to attacking the affair and OM.

Well, if you know him then you should know where to start. If not, then you need to snoop. Size yourself up against him. Without even knowing the 2 of you I KNOW he can not match up against you. Wayward's always affair down. OM's biggest insecurity right now is YOU. Believe it or not. Despite the apparent connection between the two of them...OM still knows that WW may go back you.

Make a list of what you have that is so much better than him. Things he will be insecure about when comparing himself to you. Maybe you make or have got more money. It is very typical that OM's make a lot less...cause if they were working their butts off instead of being Don Juan to your wife there would be no affair. If this is the case, then you could do what I did...I made sure my wife knew she had spent $XXXXX's per year over the last 3 years. $xxxx was an exaggerated number but it was nearly twice what OM was making before child support to his exwife. Then I attacked on the flip side and made sure my wife (and then him through their conversations) knew that in the event of a divorce she'd really not get very much at all. I made sure she knew the very bottom estimate that my lawyer thought we'd likely have to pay. It was not nearly enough to support my wife's anticipated lifestyle and it certainly was not the coin OM anticipated she would be coming to him with. I didn't know it but OM rely's on woman to take care of him as he is pretty much incapable of taking care of himself. I also gave expensive gifts (despite them making fun of me...which temporarily hurt) and I scheduled a tummy tuck for my wife that she'd always wanted and OM could never afford. OM ended things with my wife shortly thereafter...he knew he couldn't compare and that the "relationship" was getting too complicated.

Your situation may differ money wise but there are always a ton of insecurities with these OM's. List them out and attack them covertly, via your wife and overtly with your wife. Cause I am sure my wife didn't like the fact she'd be taking a huge step backwards financially on top of losing her kid and the love and respect of her family.

Finally, this fight is all short term. You do the best plan A you can to set up a good plan b. With Plan B comes mostly peace so the worst part is over in 4 to 6 months. If it doesn't work you'll be ready to move on and have the satisfaction that you did all you could. You'll have peace and integrity in your life and know that she will not find the same. Her choices are not your fault nor your resposiblity. Have faith and confidence in the plan and stick your neck out there for your kids, your wife and yourself.

Good luck, Mr. Wondering

Mr. Wondering,
Thanks for the spare set... I needed some swing thoughts to keep confidence up.
Another interesting footnote:
WW is about to be installed as President of out local Junior Womens Club. It's a very big deal. The club does lots of local charity. WW has also been chosen as a representative to the larger state organization, also an honor and a big deal. She and the other officers are being installed on Jan. 27th at a dinner function. I am scheduled to attend as loving supportive husband. She is really going to be in the spotlight here. I imagine that at least some of her club friends know of her double life. If I expose the A to anyone in town before 1/27 , it will definately be known at the dinner. This would be a huge LB. Do the pros still outweigh the cons or should I wait til after? That would be a couple more weeks of banging the OM and I don't know if I can stomach that.
68

No...you don't wait. The LB's to which you refer are the consequences for her choices. It is the pain she must endure to realize she must do the right thing. It is the pain that which disrupt their relationship.

I know it sounds uncomfortable to you too. But you are being the strong, faithful husband...hold your head up.

You also have no idea where support might come from. Some lady on the JA board will have experience with infidelity and reach out to your wife and direct her home.

Mr. Wondering

68, please explain how this is a love buster. Take the list of love busters, and then tell me how exposing is a love buster.

Just because she is angry, does NOT mean you love busted. It is NOT a love buster. It is the consequencces of her actions coming down on her. You must expose at work. You must expsoe everywhere which will put pressure on the affair. The affair is the enemy. Your best weapon against it is exposure.

Please do not be one of those BSs on here that didnt expose and then comes back on 6 months later and regrets not exposing.

I know how you feel about this. We all had the same feelings. It doesnt feel right. It feels like she will just be angry and run. But it is the opposite, 68.

With it exposed, it no longer becomes fun. It becomes exactly what it is...tawdry and disgusting. The people at the Women's Club, at work, etc will look at her in that way. Pressure will begin to exert on the affair. Her bosses will exert pressure on both of them, because they dont need that kind of stuff going on there. Pressure. Outside pressure. That is what will take those "fun" afternoons and turn them into what they are...downright disgusting.

Once the light is shown into their little love nest, it wont look so good anymore. It will look dirty. Ask the other FWSs on here. They will tell you.

68, after the PI gets her stuff...you must expose. You must contact her boss and let him know two of his employees are committing adultery and that one of them is your wife. Tell him who the OM is. Tell the boss that you are trying to save your family and marriage, and that you expect him to do something about the relationship at work. Then, you make sure her family and friends know. Samr goes with OM. Then you let the head of the Women's Club know. Tell her you would rather this not get out everywhere, but that you expect the head of the women's club to talk with your wife and let her know that this is not acceptable behavior. Let your pastor know at your church, and tell him that you expect that the church will do whatever it takes to confront your wife.

68, these things are not love busters. They are acts of love, because the only way back for her is thru the pain, thru the shame. You have to man-up, as Mr. W. said. You have to do the hard stuff.

Look, if she loses her job...YOU DIDNT LOSE IT FOR HER! She lost it thru her actions. If she gets canned at the Women's Club, you didnt do it. She did it. If she gets called before the church elders and maybe even kicked out of the church, you didnt do that. She did it.

Start doing the things that your wife needs. She needs for you to be the man and do the right things, even though it doesnt feel right at the time. Even though it is painful.

If you dont step up and get this moving, then you are enabling her to continue. Like I have said before, at some point you are going to have to step up for yoru marriage to be saved. Why not start today?

In His arms.

S.O.S. ! Red Alert!
WW just called me at work. She found my digital recorder under the nightstand! She knows about the P.O. box and checking account. I said she was smart. Scary smart. She asked me what I wanted from her, the house? money? what? I did not admit to any knowledge of her A. Just kept repeating that I loved her and would do anything to help our family. Also said I was sorry she was so upset. I stayed calm and quiet. She asked me if I just wanted to be miserable for the rest of our lives. I said no. I understood that she's miserable and I want her to be happy. There were lots of long silences where she thought of what to say next. At the end of the conversation she said "This is my last shot. I'm going to get a job and if that doesn't distract me enough then I'm out of here." I told her that I loved her again and she said "NO you don't! Nobody could love me! I just want to be alone." Then she started to cry and hung up.
What do I do now? She still doesn't know I know about the A.
She does have my recorder though. There are a couple of real long scratchy recording from her car over the weekend on it plus one where I had it in my pocket when I went to pick up the kids from the bar on Friday night. At least I didn't LB when she called. I let the PI know what happened and that WW may be more suspicious. She might take the recorder to OM and let him play with it. It's sort of hard to figure out w/out the instructions.
68

Calm down. Its okay. You handled it well. Always stay calm with your WW> You handled it very well.

Let the PI do her work. Then you MUST expose!! Never talk about divorce or separation. Tell her you love her and you want this marriage. Repeat it over and over. This is your mantra.

All WWs are the same. What she just said was VERY telling and was a shot out to you fro mdeep inside the fog. She said NO ONE could love her. 68, she is ready for exposure!! She knows she is in deep and she is a mess. She wants you to do the dirty work before you and everyone else find out how messed up she is.

She is prime for being hit by exposure and it tearing apart that relationship.

Get the PI to get the info ASAP. Then expose at work, to family, to church and to the Women's club director.

Yo uare fine. Stay calm. Stay with your mantra. Your wife actually called out to you in that statement. She really does need you, even though she is being so hurtful.

Please go with the plan. You are still on track and you can make great strides. Please dont back down now.

In His arms.

MM-
Thanks for the buck-up. I'm shaky now and I usually have nerves of steel. On one of the recordings left on the device she actually talks to the OM. I think he is standing by the car. She needed to see him on Saturday. I don't think they said anything graphic, but can't remember. Should I deny having listened to any of the recordings. I'm pretty sure she'll figure it out or OM will. Another thing she said which seemed textbook: "I'll never be able to trust you now. I guess that makes us even since you obviously don't trust me!" I replied " Is that a good thing or a bad thing?" She said she didn't know. I didn't burst out laughing to my credit.

It is all a part of the Wayward Spouse handbook. She is going right down the line...word for word.

Read other threads here. It's all the same...unfortunately.

But fortunate for you, you have a plan (she does not). Do not elude to the fact that you dont have other devices out there. Just stay quiet. She needs to let her mind run overboard on whether she is being watched or heard or not. This is a part of exposure, where the infidels get paranoid!!

In His arms.

I let my folks know that WW is on to me in case she calls them. I doubt she will.
68

Bummer...

I hope your computer is secure as she may start snooping on you there (maybe she already did and that's how she knew to look for it...if so, howdy, Mrs. 68).

Good point MM made about not promising that there are no other means of getting information out there. You can say there are none if you have to but leave the "promise" brief enough to move the conversation forward but vague enough to keep her doubting. Also, just a thought but my recorder had a way to download and save the recordings to my computer. She'll have no idea how long you've been recording and what you captured and saved previous to what she discovered. There is your bluff on what you know for tonight...since your busted on it anyway.

If she threatens to report you to the police for illegal eavesdropping or invasion of privacy call her bluff and ask her if she wants you to dial the police. It's not your recorder...you've never seen it before...she must be trying to set you up. No prosecutor wants to go after a BH for snooping on his wife. This is not corporate espionage...it's a man trying to save his marriage. Besides the fact that it's illegality is questionable anyway. If the car is in her name...maybe...but you just say the autorecording was made in your car that she borrowed that night.

It's good you have the PI on the case cause now she's going to erase your "proof" which otherwise protected you from denials in any litigation you may have to endure.

Stick to your plan but she may escalate it tonight to the point you have to have your D-day today. The P.I. can still do her work as contact is unlikely to stop...if it does then you don't need the P.I. anyway.

Good luck tonight. She is likely listening to it and will think she knows exactly and everything you know. She will try to find a way to explain around it and stick to denials. Bust through it saying you know everything.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- Get another recorder and hide it better.

I just remembered on the recording of going to the bar I said I was driving around looking for his car. She'll know I know. I didn't say his name or type of car though. This blows.
68

68,

Dont worry. My wife found my recorder in her car. Didnt matter. I just got another one and hid it better, as Mr. W stated. Just keep moving. You are NOT the one doing wrong here, she is. Dont let her put this back on you. You have a right to know.

In His arms.

I believe you need to have your d-day tonight in spite of the Private Investigator. She'll believe you know from the recordings and likely be ripe for busting. You just indicate she only found the tip of the iceberg of what you know and leave it at that. Likely you'll get her to fess up everything. I wish you could get a recording of the D-day conversation but she'll likely do a body search of you. If you got another recorder hide it very, very, very well near where your conversation will likely take place.

Your wife may be ready, prepared and on-guard for the conversation immediately upon your arrival tonight. It is best if you can put her off and few hours so she is not so emotionally charged and ready to "go off" on you. Maybe you can delay saying "lets wait till the kids go to bed" and then try to Plan A her for a few hours.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Mr. W.
A body search would involve more physical contact that I've had from WW in six months! She'll probably just assume she's bugged from now on. The PI is scheduled for tomorrow but who knows what WW will do now that she's spooked. She may not even tell OM about her discovery so as not to alarm him. She might fear his reaction. Am I being to optimistic. I really want good hard proof so there's no questions of wiretapping, etc. How would I do plan A tonight? She's going to be super withdrawn or steamed beyond belief.
68
68

Do Plan A by staying calm and spending time with your children...hopefully, together. The pull of the family is a strong magnet. Watching you interact kindly with the children in the midst of this emotional upheaval may make you appear strong and admirable. Maybe not now but down the road.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

p.s.- you do have a lot of physical evidence already...the phone bills. If her affair continues and it proceeds to court you'll still have the opportunity to get plenty more proof then the phone records will demonstrate that it's been an ongoing affair.