No THEY are not IN a marriage relationship. HE thinks he is in a marriage relationship. She isn't.

I will ignore your rudeness, Mel. By the way everyone has feelings, unless they are a psychopath with none.

Blessings,
Lady

LO I understand your concern but I really have never been out of her life, we have had on and offs in the last year since the divorce but we still do birthdays together, holidays, even went out of town on "ex-family" vacations. It wasnt your typical divorce and she has alwasy known that I want to try to repair our marriage but I think my tactics set us back more than helped in some cases.

She has told me on several occasions that she wishes she would have never gotten envolved with him and how it has caused her to do things she never wanted and I think part of the reason she has a hard time giving up is because she doesnt want to just be a cheater and feel like she gave up her whole life for nothing.

Longhorn, please go tend your cattle, you "advice" and criticism is useless to me.

Everyone else, thanks a bunch for trying to help <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That certainly does not alter the effectiveness of MB principles to restore his marriage. Just because he is divorced does not mean he has to just give up. Again, they are still very much in a relationship and the divorce has changed nothing. It is a piece of paper. We have many marriages here that came back frm a divorce, doesn't nullify MB principles.

This is interesting. Just a piece of paper, eh. Is the converse true then? Just sounds like a sloppy flip of logic that waywards like to use.

AtomicSpin,

I thought a letter to OM may be therapuetic for you more so than anything.

Blessings to ya,
Lady

As I said...YOU still think you're married. Apparently, your ex-wife does not.

Again, you have not explained rationally how MB principles would somehow be nullified just because he is divorced. He is still very much in a relationship so the only difference here is that piece of paper.

And why would this make a difference in how he approaches this?

Look, Atomic. I read your words and I have to marvel. Don't you see you are using phrases which tell everyone that you're more than a little content with being a "friend with benefits" to your ex-wife. In spite of your protestations, that's what you're saying. I think you want us to validate a hope on your part that the crumbs she's tossing your way are good enough. No way, bub. Crumbs are just crumbs.

Mister, if you want things to improve substantially you MUST be willing to take a chance. I don't see any willingness on your part to do that because there's no certainty conditions between you and your ex-wife will improve and they might worsen. Leave the kids out of it for a moment. You need to decide if you want things to improve with your ex-wife or not, then do something about it.

AS, before you are persuaded to throw in the towel my some misguided folks here, please be aware that we do have folks here who REMARRIED after salvaging their marriage from divorce using Marriage Builders principles. So, it is entirely possible and feasible to salvage your marriage from this divorce. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

But I would suggest that you go back and read JustLearning's post suggesting that you ask yourself WHY you would want to save your marriage at this point. He made some very legitimate, critical points that I hope you carefully consider.

But if you do decide to save your marriage [or "relationship" or whatever] it is possible with the use of this program. If you do throw in the towel, don't do it because you think you MB principles won't work for you, they most certainly will.

I understand your reasoning ladysheep and I have written him letters, several actually, but I have never sent any of them. Honestly I dont think he would give a darn. My ex says he feels bad about the situation and what he has put her through but I think he is a purely selfish individual. If this was the first time he did this I might think differently but according to what he told my WXW she is #5 since hes been married but shes the only one that he has LOVED, believe it or not. He says, or used to say, he would leave tomorrow but he has to stay till his daughter is 18 to fulfill his obligations to his family, then he will be able to leave without it affecting her as much, BS if you ask me. Lately he has changed his tune slightly saying hes not sure he will ever leave but he doesnt love his wife but he feels trapped in the marriage, seems like he doesnt want to loose 1/2 his assets tho.

I would've thought the difference between people who are married and people who are not would be obvious, but I'll give you your rationale...

First, MB Principles might apply to pretty much ANY relationship. It's the TACTICs that vary.

Exposure is ALWAYS risky, even in situations where the people are actually still married. Without official acknowledgement of a marriage relationship by his ex-wife (reinforce by the existance of an actual decree), exposure and other intrusive tactics (like snooping) are reduced to the category jealous, possessive, obsessive behavior.

Most people tend to understand this kind of behavior from someone trying to save their marriage...even acknowledge that it's justified.

But these same behaviors between people who are divorced and at least one acknowledges that they are not in this "marriage" end up looking jealous, possessive, obsessive...and controlling.

Basically, he is at greater risk of destroying what little foundation exists to build on.

We've similar discussion like this before when we've talked about the abuse of exposure. Sure, it might need to be done, but if done improperly - under the wrong conditions - it creates a lot of resentment in the person you're trying to win back.

The question is...does he have enough love bank units in her account to overcome that resentment? In an active marriage, that's often the case. In something that's morphed into Atomic's big brother model, I don't think it is.

Understandable, I hope you find a good plan Atomic, weather it be with your WXW or not. I would love to see a family such as yours get back together, and I have heard of re-marriages before. It is possible. But with your WXW still in the somewhat throws of an affair, weather it be and EA at this moment or not, I don't see much hope there.
It has just gone on much to long. I'm surprised you are as strong as you are Atomic. Maybe some counsel from Dr. Harley may help. I think he would say the same thing as I though.

Lady

I don't know that I would classify exposure as "risky," I think that affairs are much more risky as we see in this case. And he has nothing to lose; his inaction has allowed the situation to get to this bad place. I can see your point in the different treatment regarding snooping. After all, she is free to carry on an affair with anyone now as a divorced woman.

But that does not mean that he would not benefit from exposure. He is fully and completely within his right to expose the good doctor and I fail to see how that would "destroy" a foundation. More likely, I see that it would destroy the AFFAIR as the good doctor does not want to ruin his career or lose his marriage.

Such a move would ruin the affair and give AS the best chance possible to salvage his marriage. And now would be an ideal time because his XWW is disappointed that the good doctor deceived her about leaving his W. She knows she will never get him and that her affair has no future. She knows that she wants AS as her fallback position when the doctor is done using her like a piece of toilet paper.

As far as love units, if we only exposed when there were enough love units accumulated, we would never expose. However, he is not likely to accumulate ANY love units as long as she is still in an affair. The best that he can do is be a safe place to fall when the good ole doctor gives her the BIG DUMP upon exposure. Filling her love bank will come AFTER the end of the affair.

Divorce, is not just a piece of paper. It is the end of a marriage. It is the end of a covenant agreement of marriage, before God, man, and both of you. Sorry to say but true. If you are to have sex with her now, you would be known as having sex outside of marriage, fornication because she is not your wife. Becareful Atomic, and make sure you get STD tested okay. You deserve better. Don't let yourself be so disrespected. You deserve love and so do your children.

Take care, I hope the best for you and the children,

Lady

Lady, for all practical purposes, his divorce makes no difference in trying to salvage his marriage. That is how I mean it was irrelevent, and I think you know that. His marriage most certainly is NOT over and he is not obliged to throw in the towel just because of a legal document.

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

Im looking for advice but obviously Im not sure what to do, councelors are pretty much worthless. I dont really have anyone to bounce ideas off of, especially people that are or have experienced this type of situation in their lives. I dont really need relationship advice, I know our relationship isnt ideal and I put up with things that some might not but I knew that before I got married. I understand that you might not thing the relationship is worth saving, but I do and that is what counts. I am not satisfied with the way thins are or I wouldnt be trying to figure out how to change them. I am not willing to accept crumbs forever and I have told her that but I feel that I owe her the time and space to make a wise, less emotional descision. I wasnt alwasy the best husband and in some ways I could have easily avoided this situation completely. While I didnt ask for her to have an affair, I accept much of the responsibility for the problems in our relationship that left her vulnerable to him.

BTW we were married in a catholic church and while Im not a practicing member, as far as I know legal documents dont end a marriage, it would have to be annulled which I havent done yet. Im not sure if that means anything but I think it in a way eliminates the "fornification" thing, maybe.

AMEN!