TJ,
This is JUST a thought. I told my H 15 hours per week of time alone together as a condition of our living together. You don't want to spend your life being a PI. Maybe, if you spend time together, she might come to view you as a human being deserving of basic respect.

We are now on week 4 of my ultimatum. It is too early to tell what will happen, but I do know all about hanging on to hope in the face of incredible disregard. That's how I solved it. I decided I couldn't cope although I would always hope, and I put a condition on living together.

Cherished

I hope that YOU are "getting it". Your WS is apparently proving over and over to you that she can't be trusted. Do you really want to continue in an M where you would likely have to constantly be keeping an eye on your WS and checking up on her because you have absolutely no trust in her?

Trust can be rebuilt if she were to put in the work. I doubt that she is really capable of making the necessary changes. I think she just gets desparate to keep whatever support and needs that you are still giving her. It seems like she is just wanting to manipulate and use you for her own purposes. Maybe with the right therapy and medication she could get a grasp on who she has been for the last few of years and begin to change. Without that and left to herself I doubt she will really change.

I understand your wanting a miracle. I wish that for you. I feel sad for her as well as you and your kids. The situation seems so hopeless. I know that God answers prayer...sometimes it isn't always the way we expect.

Hello, just wanted to let you know that you were in my thoughts today. I hope that you have a sense of calm and maybe some peace now that THE day is here. Hope everything goes as you would like it to.

TY TX2step, (smiling)

I just have an appointment today. I made a mistake, my mediation is Thursday. So not really calm today, but I feel like I'm getting to the top of the hill.

TY again,

Tom:

I like JL's metaphor.

Your STBXW is about 2 become "not your problem" anymore. It may be good that she's still "trying", but only doing will count now. And the doing she needs 2 do is for her benefit first, then your kids, and last maybe yours, if you're interested at that point.

If she won't continue with Jennifer, why not suggest she come here and post on a thread of her very own?

You can bet there are a number of folks here who'd like 2 help if we can.

-ol' 2long

She talked to me last night. She suggested that I move home and she begins counseling for her mood swings. I reminded that 12 months ago I told her I couldn't move home until she demonstrated that I could count on her and that she showed her honesty. Nothing has changed in my way of thinking on that point. The past 12 months has made divorce much more palatable for me. I feel much better about myself and much different towards her.

I thought about giving her another set of conditions. But she has never followed through on any of the other ones. These would be one-strike and your out though.

I want to get on with my life, either with her or completely without her. And I don't have a preference for the second choice. I feel totally ambivalent about her.

Tom,

You sound like you are in the same place, once again, most of us BS find ourselves when the WS gets cold feet and the As don’t look as good to them as they once did. We BS seem to suffer a general lack of resolve regarding recovery after all.

A few two-cent suggestions:

Go back and read some of your old posts.

Remind yourself how terribly, horribly bad she treated you not so long ago. I remember when your WW was semi-formally elected the absolute meanest and most recalcitrant WW there ever was on MB.

Make a list of criteria she must complete (or significantly accomplish) before you will even start active reconciliation. As objectively as possible, score her on each. Evaluate the grade she receives. If any are less than stellar…

Where are your children in all of this? Do you have the custody you want? Document, document, document…especially any and all lies and anytime there is an OM around them.

Perhaps she might sign an accountability contract? Not that it would mean anything in reality, but it will give you tangible evidence of her sincerity, or lack of.

IMO, you should proceed with the D. But what do I know? I just remember how much you suffered at her hands - way more than the three-sigma BH. I would hate for you to expose yourself to more of the same. Better to wait a while and see what she actually accomplishes with her personal recovery over a reasonable length of time.

I mean, what is actually any different this time, anyway?

With prayers,

Tom,you seem to be your wife's favorite whipping boy. If you were to move home it seems like you would be in for more of the same abuse before long. I could be wrong.

I wonder if she could be helped by a nutritional workup or blood analysis. She could be lacking some important nutrients which could help her maintain a more level brain chemistry. She could start taking a good quality cod liver oil or fish oil...omega 3 fatty acids. But, I am into all that stuff...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> You know what I always say Trix. "you always hurt the one you love" LOL

Seems like I've spent all afternoon reading this board. Like the old days.... yuch! But it feels good too, except for the mess in the kitchen that needs cleaned up.

Trix I do think she needs better care, but I just don't know where the time is for that anymore. A year ago yes, yes, yes. But now, ... I don't believe she really thinks she needs it. She is just telling me she'll do it, more words. Medication, diet, therapy, I wish she would get it for her own sake. This may sound a bit pompous, (I'm not proud of it) but she'll never find a whipping boy like me out there.



I have done that recently. Read the posts, read her old chat sessions, looked at the screen captures of her internet "dates" with OM. Reviewed thier house hunting, and vacation plans, and of course the other "stuff". And how the couldn;t wait till the kids were out of the way. How he told her how to get more money out of the marriage, and they laughed about how much weight I was losing. And today she sends me a text saying she hopes I feel better. I remember how she was when I had to put our 15y/o border collie to sleep, how her and CowboySteve aka Frisky laughed about it. We got that dog the year we were married, I held her in my arms when they killed her, cried so hard I had to stop on the side of the road. And they laughed.

I remember it all, and it is painful. Even this past year, the betrayals, half truths, treating me like I was a "nothing nobody". I reviewed our old emails, her threats, her smug little clown faces about her OM, her outrageous mood swings and middle of the night phone calls.
All the things I tried to forget, all the things I tried to put behind me and build something new and better.

There is no excuse for her nasty behavior but she still, even this week gives me excuses for it. Gives me excuses why she quit counseling. Never accepting her part. Her usual response to everything is, "I never should have done that, BUT ...", or "I'm sorry I said that and it was wrong, BUT I meant every word." These are honest to God quotes of a normal conversation.

She still hangs out with all the friends that helped her cheat. She has completely withdrawn from anyone that hasn't supported her affair.

I have been with her family, many times, even over weekends. This is the family that helped her cheat on me, that encouraged her affair and covered up for it. Her best most trusted friend has repeatedly cheated on her husband, and is divorcing him now.

My family supported the marriage, she won't go near them. She spent a total of two hours with them and I had to beg her to go. Then she makes out like she was soooo put out. I spend weekends with her Jerry Springer family and never complain.

Even in counseling, I would talk to Jennifer and she would share the things my wife said she was doing, and I was like....WHAT? That isn't with me.

Sorry for the rant ... again. I'm going to drink myself to bed tonight, I have my mediation tomorrow. And I have a wicked sinus infection.

Tom - Happy drinking tonight.

Have you had any IC? I'm curious, because although you have been a loyal husband, and a GOOD MAN, when is it your turn for some happiness?

I've read your posts and seen your pictures, and I think you will do quite well when the divorce is final. But there seems to be something holding you back from having a good life - and it seems to be something inside YOU.

Tom:

"I have been with her family, many times, even over weekends. This is the family that helped her cheat on me, that encouraged her affair and covered up for it.

I spend weekends with her Jerry Springer family and never complain."

I sure hope you don't STILL do this. Best thing 2 do would be 2 pinch them off completely, like a bad 2rd!

Take this from a guy who likes beer: don't drink 2night, unless it's water. Get a good night's sleep and be fresh and perky for 2morrow.

best,
-ol' 2long

It was very sad to read this recap.

I wish for a better life going forward.

You are a great guy with lots of love to give the right woman and you deserve to receive lots of love in return....after you allow yourself to heal from all the pain of the last year or two.

Having just read you long vent, I have only one question...What has changed?

I would suggest that if nothing has changed, that put the fire out, and move on. Frankly, it sounds as if you have but don't really want to admit it, because you feel you need "closure" and perhaps an apology from your W but any apology with "BUT" in it, isn't.

Your call, but I would suggest you douse the embers of what was once a nice building and move on. Just my thoughts, but you offer no data to indicate that any thing has really changed or that your W has learned anything.

God Bless,

JL

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Remember that saying "When everyone was running out, they were running in"? I wonder if that has something to do with it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Maybe that's it Believer.

Well four more beers and off to bed. The kitchen is still a dang mess.

Hey TJ, Just wanted to send message of support...we signed onto the board about the same time and here we are 1 1/2 years later.....you sure have fought the good fight and been optimistic....but WS doesn't seem to put her words into action.....

I think it is as they say..."you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink." My FWS has been home for one year, no contact, attended MB seminar, coached with SH for about 8 months, stopped, and we are right back to where we started just before the A. He still LB's me with no EN fill.....I am waiting for love to return...but so far I have no reason to love him. I think it takes 2 years to heal....but the healing happens in different ways...2 years to heal a marriage if both actively work at it. 2 years if you separate and are on your own. This place we are in seems like "limbo."

I think alot about how it is time to move on. FWS tells me how unhappy he is and I say, I understand, I am too....shall we divorce....H acts stunned...why? Fish or cut bait?

Anyway....no words of advice...just words of support. You have really great intelligence, sensitivity and patience....just wanted to let you know that I am pulling for you....and

""""pop""""""""....opened another bottle of Amber Boch...for ya.....ss

Hey Mbers,

SureSurvivor thanks for the support. I just don’t know...

My STBX was actually worse to me this past year of reconciliaion attempts than she was the two years before the affair. (which also wasn't great) Emptied my love bank each month. I so much wanted her to put units in my love bank, for two reasons .... 1. Because it felt good, and 2. Because I very much wanted to again love the mother of my children. But then again she never stopped her cyber sex affair, which probably inhibited her ability to recommit to the M. I'm sorry!!! They were "just friends" she just wanted to know "how he was doing" and if he could turn on the webcam and if he was flying to Florida soon. Everyone wants to see thier "friends" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

How come some of the WS come back to there loyal spouses and show remorse, do everything they can to rebuild trust, participate in the rebuilding of the marriage, and treat the betrayed spouse with understanding and concern. They read the books, have some self awareness, and rebuild the trust though honesty and dependability and accountablitiy. They come back and try to make it up their loyal spouse who was betrayed.

And then cheating spouses like mine, come back with more lies, false promises, meanness, and an attitude like “just want to forget everything” or “act like nothing happened.” Who act outrageously offended if one thing is asked of her. And Act like I should just trust her. My STBX actually told me she was mad at me because she thought I was trying to trick her into telling the truth .. I should just trust her. And the whold time she was still in contact with OM, and she was “MAD” at me for trying to find out, or “TRICK” her into telling the truth. When I say mad, I mean my STBX is very not nice and unpleasant when she is not getting her way. She will punish you, the kids, her family, the neighbors, for months for one perceived slight.

Is it just in some peoples characters to be caring. It is just in some peoples characters to be cold hearted and selfish.

Can people learn to be caring, and concerned, and charitable if that is not their nature?

And conversely: Can people learn to be selfish, cold hearted, and self centered if that is not their nature?

Tom:

"Probably" 2 both 2uestions. But that doesn't help you make your choice (which is simple, and maybe even easy at this point).

How did the hearing go 2day?

-ol' 2long