It's all about him, isn't it? Still.

Your son is 4. Old enough to know the words good and bad. Let him know that lying is bad and find out who has been telling him about the fighting. Let him know that fighting is bad and you want to find out who has been saying bad things about the family. When he fingers his dad, reinforce that lying is bad and right now daddy is doing bad things including lying. You need to set your son straight. Expect the WS to do more damage so please give your son the support and ammo he needs to combat this.

L.

Well, it still kind of grates me, Orchid, that he's still thinking about himself when she's just been through a traumatic childbirth. She needs to heal, recover, and take care of a baby.

Honestly, intexas -- can't you get someone else to be a shortstop for this weirdness?

intexas,
My 5 year old assumed that we were separated because we fought too. Actually our fights were few & far between.

Kids have to attribute the separation to SOMETHING. They automatically assume some responsibility on themselves also unless told otherwise. They also assume (since they don't think of affairs) that it must be because you couldn't get along.

My 5 year old told my Mom months later that we needed to get one of those Christmas tree light winder things so we would stay together. She remembered hanging the lights getting stressful one year... and turned it into the reason we almost divorced.

Both my DDs also assumed that I had made him move out. They both assumed that I needed to LET him come back home - that I was the one who wanted to be apart.

So, my point being, don't jump to conclusions TOO quickly that he's telling DS4 that you fought, DS4 might be concluding that on his own, rewriting history to explain the present.

MSA

Ignore it all. WS's are all thinking like addicts. My WS used to tell me what a wonderful mom OW was - this after she completely abandoned her 12 year old daughter. For the last 3 years she has only visited daughter about an hour every 2 weeks. But WH loves to tell me how the most important thing in the world to OW is her daughter.

Continue having a nice life, and give it some time. The fantasy bubble will burst.

Hi intexas!

Congratulations on your new baby! I've been following your thread, but I don't think I''ve ever posted to you. You're a strong woman!

This jumped out at me:


I remember that babble! We were separated by half a country and WH was living the bachelor/student life with OW while I lived with my two babies at my parents. He guilted me into sending email updates once a week, and when I tried to explain how difficult that was for me, he accused me of being the reason his relationship with his children was suffering. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

(I reminded him of this the other night. There was a sharp intake of breath followed by, "I can't believe I was so selfish.")


It is *always* okay to stand up for yourself. I am angry that he insists on bringing his nasty WS-talk into your life at this time when your defenses are down. Believe me - you don't want him back in this state. (I took back a foggy WS - whew!)

Dobson's Love Must Be Tough cautions against taking someone back too soon. He says better to extend the separation for a month or two to ensure the WS is serious than set yourself up for heartbreak.


Yes - willingness to be absolutely honest is crucial.


I hope this doesn't sound trite. But if he refuses to meet them, then you don't want him back (I know, it's easy for me to say - difficult for you to live).

((((intexas))))

Blessings,

G

Thanks to everyone for posting to me. Helps keep me sane!

He called last night and said since I don't want him back, he's going to call his lawyer today and tell him to finalize it instead of waiting for the house to sell, and asked me to do the same. Previously he agreed to the sale of the house going through first. This means as early as Feb. 10th.

Now, here's my question. If this was fog talk, would he be rushing the divorce? If he really deep down cared for me and loved me, wouldn't he not rush it? Buy himself some time maybe?

Are all WS's mean in the process of being a WS, or do some go to "great lengths" to actually protect the BS? Are the ones that do treat the BS's nicer the ones, who once the affair is discovered, walk away instead of staying with the OP for any length of time. You are right AM, it is still all about him. I mean, he really has had no actions that show much regard for me--like bringing the boys home early so he can get a nap, calling me in the hospital even when I would tell him I couldn't handle it, etc. I mean the most he has done since he has left is help me one time carry in the groceries, and another time he took out the trash while he was here.

I somehow thought I was exempt to the whole lovebank thing--that I didn't need to have mine full--I would always love him, etc. And I'm afraid all I am feeling now is a sort of pity/need to protect him and take care of him like I always have, but I don't know how much longer that is going to be there.

And what if, in retrospect, you realize that he never treated you well while you were married...or rather not never, but hardly at a level that once you've been removed from the relationship, you can see the lack of care and respect he really had for you and showed towards you all along--even while you were dating.

And what about the fact that while this is his first PA, he had an emotional affair with a student via e-mail and instant messaging and maybe more???--very secretive and hidden from me--lying, etc. Or the other close female friendship of an old HS girlfriend that I asked him countless times to stop, and is still to this day continuing? Or the many female friends from school (where he works) that he would hang out with instead of coming home? Is this a pattern, or maybe just someone who doesn't understand the "not just friends" philosophy?

I know again I am rambling, but I am at a point where I will be divorced very soon. And I'm scared of going it all alone. I've done it almost 6 months, and I know I'll be okay. It still doesn't change the fact that I am scared, though. Doesn't change the fact that I'll need a career change soon, or that my boys will have a legacy I never wished for them.

Darn these post-partum hormones!

Got another call, well 3 actually.
First one--we need to get this over with, intexas. It's for the best right now. We both need this right now. But maybe one day we can get back together.

Does he think this is like in HS when you break up as sophmores and try again as seniors? Also, I felt like this was code for "I want to see if ti works with her, and if not, then I want to trywith you." Well, you know, that is kind of not something I want. I want to be chosen BEFORE he tries to live with her, etc. At this point, I am scared to know what I want. I have moments of peace with both decisions.

Second one was about getting money again. I suggested he come tonight, see the baby and the boys, and get his check. He axed that idea. Guess he'll need to be there to comfort OW tonight.

Third one I didn't answer--but this is what the voicemail said--I know, intexas, that I didn't tell you this a lot, but I admire you. Not just as a person, but as a mom. You're the best mom I have ever met and thought you might need to hear that. I'm not telling you this to give you false hopes or with any motive, just wanted you know how I felt.

Well, aside from the fact that I am glad I didn't answer that one, I don't know what to think of it. It's like getting a small crumb and wanting to save it because it might be the last nice thing you have for awhile.

OW's divorce is final today or tomorrow--can't remember which. Wonder what that will do to him? Anyone dealt with OP getting divorced? How did your WS act? I figure that might be what is motivating him right now to rush things.

yea, Intexas, my xh told me same thing...he said "I know a couple that are clients of mine...he messed up (key word there) and they divorced. He really missed her and they got back together a few years later. I just know that if I had some time free, I'd be back in a few years. I know that."

the man remarried 3 days later. as ow was preggers.

the rush for the ow?

she has ALL HER CARDS DOWN ON THE TABLE AND SO DO YOU...she knows that her H doesn't want her anymore. it's over. so she's going 100 percent for your H. he's all that is left...I hope fleas run rampant at her office and people sue her and leave their pets around a RESPONSIBLE clinician...yuck.

anyway, expect CRAZINESS FROM THE OW...I sure did.

ex: my xh's ow had a child from a former bf. she claimed this man was her "one"...and he after finding out she was shagging my H, left her high and dry. He didn't make the money my xh does...but is a good looking and nice guy really. anyway, he met a nice girl and DID THE ULTIMATE TO UMARRIED OW...AND MOM OF HIS KID...HE MARRIED THE GIRL.

My own sis said "peach...ow is gonna go insane now. wait. she's gonna do it. expect anything and everything within the next 3 mos."

she got pregnant and trapped my H...and forced our divorce to go thru as that was a huge dealbreaker for me.

she did it deliberately...to try to trap a second man since the first guy, her true love (if she can love at all in that little golddigging heart of hers)found an honest girl and married her after he found out his xgf was a lying cheating scumbag golddigging wench.

your ow is in desperation mode.

she's libel to do anything now.

so here's what I'd DO TO COMBAT HER.

RESEND plan B letter...BUT WITH LOVING ENDING.

that if he can end contact, work with you...WITH YOU...your family could again be whole.

tell him you love YOUR HUSBAND...not this pretender...and that you want your H back.

the ow can try to walk in your shoes but she cannot.

Wanna know what the xh says to the ow/w? when they get in fights (OTHER WOMAN CONFIRMED THIS LAST SUMMER) "If YOU don't watch it...PEACH and I will GET BACK TOGETHER...SHE STILL WANTS ME...AND IT'S MY SON."

how's that for fogbusting?

my xh remarried and he uses this line on his wistress?

even an affair MARRIAGE will NOT last.

don't sweat it.

it's doomed.

resend plan B with LOVING ENDING TO IT. Leave the man knowing where the light is...where is the hope? WH it is AT YOUR HOME...RIGHT WHERE YOU LEFT IT ALL ALONG.

(and back to my xh...I would NOT take him back incidentally...but I think it's hilarious the ow/w is always one inch from being freaked out about me at all times. she can't get around me...oh well what she gets)

I know this may sould wrong, but I don't want to send another letter, another statement of my love, etc. Maybe it's just me getting to this point. I don't know. But I feel like at this point, if he can't pull up his big boy pants and choose me and his kids over her and his freedom, then I don't want to be second choice. I don't want to keep reminding him who is the better chioce. Heck, I don't even want to be a CHOICE--I should be the GIVEN.

At this point, he still thinks it is okay to leave me again--as long as he gets unhappy again. ANd that is still very scary to me.


I asked these questions in an above post, but I think it was so long I didn't get any feedback. Any takers?


I'm just trying to understand. What? I don't think I even know.

He will not end contact UNTIL he knows it will work with us--says if he can't have me, then he is not going to be alone--he can't handle it, needs to be with someone.

Well, I hope you don't fall for that one. You only want him back if he wants to be with you, not because he doesn't want to be alone.

Also, during this time apart, you can really look at the marriage, and see if this was an out of character mistake, or just a pattern of not putting much into the marriage.

When my WH first left, I was completely devastated. But I soon noticed, that other than the idea of him being gone, there was really not that much to miss. When I looked at the whole marriage, it was very one-sided, with me doing most of the work.

no worry--that's my point. I need to know I am wanted and chosen--I couldn't handle the pain of thinking I was second choice.


I think I am still shocked that he left and cheated, but the selfishness behind this is NOT out of character--if that makes any sense. I never guessed it would manifest itself with the ugly face of adultery. There is a pattern of him seekign out female friendships, but I really didn't think he could sleep with another as waiting till marriage and each of us being the only one the other had been with was special to us and something we talked about beong able to tell the boys as an example. Now, that is all shot to you-know-where. SO, yes, I was shocked at first, but after some time to evaluate things and really think them over, I know almost the whole marriage has been about him and his needs. And the one time I didn't really meet every need he said (I'm referring to not really being into kissing) he left and has blamed it all on me.

What I miss most is my boys not having their daddy here. And I miss feeling like a family. He would come home from work, usually late, and go take a nap, even though I had to be at work at 5, and it would always be easier to have him watching the boys, rather than trying to juggle them with my job. Then Wednesday nights he'd play basketball, once a week play poker usually, and sometimes fishing, too. And during coaching season I never saw much of him. My job keeps him home in the evenings--and he always said my job shouldn't hold him back from having fun and going out.

It was so one-sided--and I just dealt with it, as I told you before, because I thought that was what a Christian wife should do. I am scared when I think of it like this because I wonder what it would feel like to really be treated well and taken care of, instead being the one to always take care of him.

Well, I was the same way. I bought into the Christian wife BIG TIME. My WH has 4 kids of his own, and 2 step-kids, and I have 2. So most of my time was spent cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, going to school stuff, sports stuff, dentist, doctor, shopping - you get the picture.

My WH kind of did his own thing. I was busy with the kids - much more than he was. But I really enjoyed it, and thought that things were fine. Meanwhile he began feeling more and more entitled.

When I look back, there were lots of red flags. For instance, his son got in a bad head-on car accident, and WH wasn't around - I stayed in the ER with son. His daughter had pneumonia and couldn't breathe - again I took her to ER.

My WH was heavily involved in motorcycle clubs, sports stuff, and many other things. Most of our money went to his hobbies. Like a dummy, I was content.

After he left, I was sad, but then started noticing that I was doing all kinds of fun things that I didn't do with him. Actually, my life was better WITHOUT him.

I could never go back to those days. I think you will start feeling the same way. When your husband wants to come back, you will not be so willing to have the old marriage. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Same here. When we bought our home in May (we never moved in--it's for sale now) he went out and bought a pool table--a 2000 pool table, and put it on the third bedroom that was to be this new baby's room. Said the baby could go in the small room downstairs with no closet that was going to be an office originally. It's moments like this that are crowding my thoughts lately.



You worded what i was trying to word all along. I do NOT want the same marriage ever again. I want so much more. But is it possible to have that with him? I know it will be HIS choice, as I really think I did a great job as a wife, friend, lover, etc. I can't imagine being with another person, but I am afraid of taking him back when it is not real. I read so many stories here about having to comfort the WS as they withdraw from the OP and about breaking NC with OP, etc--and I think both of those moments would break my heart all over again. I don't want those moments ever again. Not when he really had something good to begin with.

I can give the man all the kissing he wants, but I know that wasn't the real issue. And the real issue is inside of him and is his selfishness. And as ML (I think) pointed out to me a while back, God won't change him--He wants him to change, but my WH has to want to also.

I have scoured and prayed and done so much introspective stuff these past six months, and I am confident he was in a marriage that most would be thankful to be in.

Believer, do you feel like you have changed through this--like in knowing now what it should like to be in a Christian marriage? or realizing that it's also okay to have what you want too--have your needs met, too? It's like marriage should be 100/100, and I was always thinking that, but he never was.

I have this same internal battle almost every day. When the resentment level is still rather high, it's hard not to focus on the flaws of the relationship. And, looking back, I do recognize many points where I really did feel like I was pulling most of the weight while my FWH coasted.

Even saying that makes me feel a little disloyal, because I can also remember lots of really great times. But I think the imbalance was a pattern that really began when we had children, and maybe this is what happened for you, too. I was the "christian wife" you refer to, who walked in the door from work and instantly started doing the domestic thing--dinner for the family, bath for kids, story time, bedtime, and finally a breather where I could sit and have some nice, individual time with FWH. And we really did enjoy this quiet togetherness. Only now I realize that while I was chasing around like a crazy woman with the kids, he was downstairs with his feet up, reading the paper.

I was perfectly content with this--in fact I was very happy because I CHERISHED the time with the children. But while I was focusing my time and energy on being a mom, he was cultivating some real selfishness which only got worse with time. It became boring to wait for me to finish with the kids. But rather than come back and help me out, he started going to the gym in the evenings the second I got home. We handed off the kids and he left for an hour or so. I didn't really like him missing family dinner, but he insisted that he really needed that time for his "stress relief." And, as the dutiful Christian Wife, I supported him in his needs.

Of course, his hour at the gym got longer as he started to use his evenings for other personal pursuits, e.g. hanging with the guys, and sleeping with the town slut. I see it now as pattern of selfish, indulgent behavior more than any real dissatisfaction he had with our marriage.

And now that he is back and we are trying to work things out, I still see fragments of the selfish attitude lingering. He has a hard time not putting his own wants first, because that is all he has done for such a long time. He sunk into such a pattern of thinking only of himself, and I allowed it to happen, all the while thinking that I was being supportive.

Trust me--you do not want your WH back until he has some insight. It is hard enough to deal with a FWH who expresses a desire to change, let alone one who does not.

TAKE HIM BACK ONLY ON YOUR TERMS. You are NOT being unfair or SELFISH to put some of the work on him for a change. You are right--marriage should be 100/100. Maybe if we had all required our WH's to hold up their end more in the first place, we could have avoided being here.

Take care of you, and your beautiful boys.

BS-me, 34
FWH, 31
Married going on 9 years
DD, 4; DD, 20 mo.
PA-10/2004 through 10/2005
DDay 11/17/05

Yes, I think I have changed. I now realize that while I thought I was being a good wife, I was really feeding his selfishness. It's hard to explain because I was mostly content in the marriage. There was a lot of satisfaction in keeping a home and raising kids.

Although I also worked outside of the home, my main focus was on raising a family.

WH has been gone for 3 years now, and it took me some time to see how unbalanced the marriage was. The big thing is how easy it was for me to be without my husband. Of course I missed him, but there was not a lot of extra work for me as I did most of it before.

I think lots of these WH's don't know what a huge mistake they are making, especially if the marriage was good. After going through all of this, most BS's aren't going to be willing to go back to the same old marriage.

So I guess it would be wrong to ask my WH if it feels any different to sleep with a divorced woman instead of a married woman, since her D is final now, huh?

Or to ask hom if that is why he is rushing our D. (He e-mailed today wanting to remind me not to drag this out--and he asked for the boy's SSN #'s--wonder why?)

I think I'm feeling a little bitter today

Maybe to file his taxes claiming the boys as dependents.
I'd ask before giving him that info.

He could have their SS#s w/o even asking you for the taxes if he'd stayed home where he belonged. Don't even respond.
You're too busy with the babies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />