Astri,

Email me at kidney girl 25 @ yahoo.ca (without the spaces) and I will invite you to join the weight loss group.

Cat

I don't personally think that overweight people should be made objects of fun here. It is very disrespectful to people who truely struggle with a problem that can be lifelong and severely damaging to their health.
Like smoking, drinking, verbal abuse, sex abuse, etc.
Many overweight people struggle from having been damaged emotionally in their lives. Humiliating them and making objects of fun of them and moralizing to them about the weight, simply compounds the struggle for them.

Overweight is a highly visible symptom of other issues, most of them emotional. Treating the root of the problem is likley to be more successful than shaming and humiliating. Obesity is not a moral issue and thin people are not better than an overweight person. Instead of overeating, it may be that the thin person works out their angst by copping a superior attitude while they abuse the people around them by their cruelty, emotional, verbal, and physical abuse.

That's right, tell yourself, "The Fat Lady made me do it."

Sigh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Also, I would like to ask some of the posters who have issues with the weight of their partners, what have YOU done to be supportive of your spouse and encourage them to work through issues in a safe and loving enviroment?
That could be key to helping them care enough for themselves and you to really work on getting healthy and in the process their appearance becoming more appealing to you.

Pieta,

If you think I was blaming others for my fat, you completely misunderstood my post.

Food is what I used to deal with pain and stress in my life. Before I was married, it wasn't great, and I definitely weighed too much, but it wasn't nearly out of control the way it became over recent years. A big part of the problem too was that I had tried many diets over the years - all kinds of things that were supposed to be THE way to eat to solve the problem, and none of them ever worked. And yes, I always added exercise, and the results were always the same. I would lose weight for a short while, then, even though I would stick to the diet and continue the exercise, I would level off, then start to gain, and ultimately gain back more than twice what I had lost, even sticking to the diet.

I know - impossible you say. But it's not. Once I started gaining the weight back, I would give up - what's the point in doing all that and GAINING weight. I would get more depressed, more stressed, and turn right back to food again.

Note - no blame to anyone else here yet.

As far as the diets... I have no doubt they probably worked for some people. I have become convinced that different people's body chemistries mean that different people's bodies react differently to various diets. And that that various diets I tried were very bad for my body. Remember years and years ago when supposedly a great way to lose weight was to cut back on meat almost completely and just eat a lot of pasta and such? You don't? Well, I do? Pasta salads were a great "diet food." I lost weight on that one for a couple of weeks. And then gained a lot. Every time one of these diets came around, you would see them recommended by doctors too. Eventually, the way I got my weight at least somewhat under control was to quit even trying to lose weight at all, because I saw that all those attempts at losing weight were going to kill me!

Then came my marriage. Now, do I blame my XH for my weight? Well, since I was already fat before I was married, that would be hard to do. Do I blame him for the large amount I gained during the marriage? Maybe at least partly. Why? It's called emotional abuse.

It's strange, because I would never have thought I would have ended up in an abusive situation. If he had ever hit me, it would only have happened once. I would never have tolerated that. But it took me a year after we were separated to even really acknowledge that he had been abusive to me, even though my family had all seen it for years. It's subtle. All I knew is I hurt - I couldn't tell you why, or what was causing it. I just knew I hurt, I couldn't figure out how to make it better, and the only time it felt a little better at least is when I ate my comfort foods - Ben & Jerry's ice cream, mashed potatoes, macaronie and cheese, really, anything that was high fat and favorites from childhood.

And at the time, I didn't even have a clue that I WAS doing that. I would have denied to the ends of the earth that I was eating to cover my pain. As far as I was concerned at the time, I had just decided that I was who I was, that people needed to accept me as who I was, and if that meant as a fat person, so be it. That I was going to enjoy life, do what I wanted, eat what I wanted. I wasn't ready yet to admit why I was doing what I was doing.

The funny thing is, that isn't completely true... I had really been ready for years to admit it, and to do something about it, but... doing that is painful, no two ways about it. And I was dealing with a situation that was extremely painful already. I had an emotionally abusive husband who frequently treated me like I didn't exist, who would complain that I didn't take the initiative where sex was concerned, but everytime I did, he would turn me down, tell me not today, try again tomorrow. Who, though I didn't know it until close to the very end, was addicted to porn, doing personals on-line behind my back and cheating on me for a whole lot of years. Who was lying to me about a lot of things and at times even seriously trying to make me think I was going crazy.

But yes, I should have been able to just stop, say "I have to quite using food as a crutch this way" in the midst of all that, and yes, it is completely all my fault that I put on so much weight through those years when he was pulling all that garbage on me.

The thing is, it doesn't really matter whose fault it is, or how it happened, *I* am the only one that can do anything about it. Even then, I got lucky in finally finding an eating plan that works well for my body. It's really a process of trial-and-error to find the one that is right for you.

But you know, I do get really tired of hearing people who have never really dealt with this kind of a weight problem - I'm not talking a few pounds, I'm talking a couple hundred pounds here - that it's just a matter of hey, put the fork down and go run a little. Have a little willpower. That sort of thing. Anyone who does know me would never say that, knows that if that's all it took, this would never have been a problem for me in the first place. That the problem is a whole lot more complex than that.

If it were really all that simple, do you really think so many of us would just choose to be fat and, as so many people seem to think, lazy? Trust me, we wouldn't!

Well....there goes the integrity of THAT story!

Look,

I was out running this morning. I almost got hit by a truck. I didn't feel like dragging my 53 year old butt out of bed at 6 AM but I did.

My H used to have to really work at it too. But then he left his desk job for a construction site. He climbs ladders all day and I can't pack ENOUGH calories into his lunch box. His stomach can't hold that much food.

If a person is happy with the way the look, fine. But my experience is that fat people who try to convince themselves or anyone else of their happiness have about as much integrity as that alleged news story.

I just don't want to hear the lame excuses.

Wah, wah, wah all you want. Its not that complicated. Eat less. Exercise more.

Yep, you've pretty much proved my point. You're one of the clueless that haven't been there and don't really have the slightest idea what you're talking about. When you're talking taking off 10 or 20 pounds, yes, eat less, exercise more.

When you have a serious weight problem, there are other factors involved, and it IS more complicated.

BTW, this is coming from someone who has now figured out some of those other factors, and who has now lost over 70 pounds since the end of September, and who is well on track for continuing this until she gets to where she needs to be. But it was NOT a simple case of eat less, exercise more. In fact, one of the things I sometimes struggle with, believe it or not, is eating ENOUGH!!! Try figuring THAT one out in your simplistic philosophy. Oh, and I am doing this in a medically supervised weight management center (Johns Hopkins) with a staff that has doctors, nutritionists, exercise physiologists, and psychologists.

If I followed your plan, I'd probably be well on my way to 500 pounds by now.

So what was it specifically? Did it have nothing to do with eating the right foods and exercising? I am genuinely interested.

I have in-laws who are all morbidly obese. These people blame everything - from genetics to sleep disorders to thyroid conditions - for their obesity. But go to their house and they have warehouse-sized containers of snack foods, a fridge full of sugared soda, and large screen TV with surround sound. No where will you find an exercise machine or a bicycle.

But it's funny, some of the people in this family - people with the SAME GENES - are NOT mordibly obese. They eat right, get enough exercise, and their weight is proportionate to their height.

I'm sure there is a myriad of pshchological/emotional factors that can contribute to overeating, but the truth is that in probably 99 percent of the cases, obesity still comes down to calories in > calories out.

I have two main triggers for eating: boredom and socializing. Boredom is eay to fix, I just try to keep busy. Socializing is harder to deal with, but I try to bring healthy foods (veggies and hummus, shrimp cocktail) to pot lucks instead of chips and dip. And weight watchers is what worked FOR ME. Others' milage may vary.

I've heart diet/fitness experts say there is no one program that works for everyone. The best diet/fitness program is one that works for the individual and one that the individual can stick with.

eating enough what?

I can tell you it ain't cheesecake.

Sure if you WANT to look at it as simply more calories in than go out, you can.
But WHY is this happening? Why are more calories going in than out? What is the reason for this. You say person is eating too much and exercising too little. But why is that happening?

Is someone depressed to the point they are struggling with not only depression but the dmage it does to self esteem, relationships, health? What then? Shame them, mock them, humiliate them?
Or find out what the core issue is and address that?

There is a REASON you are able to haul your 53 year old behind, as you say, and get out and exercise.

Do you mock other people with eating disorders? The anorexic? What a powerful damaging disease that is. What is it? "buck up you disgusting bony skinny person and JUST EAT?"

Or what about bulemics. That can kill just as easy as being overweight or anorexic. It is said that bulemia runs rampant. Very damaging to the body's chemical balance, it can stress your heart to the point you have a heart attack and die. However, you are thin when you do it. As you are if you starve yourself to death when you are anorexic.

Fat is quite visible. Is that it? Visually unappealing? An eating DISORDER is just that. A disease to be treated, emotionally, physically and psychologically.

I am sorry some of your have relatives who you find to be whining, fat, and disgusting. If they were thin, maybe you would just find them whining and disgusting. Many people have relatives they think of like that. Overweight people have not cornered the market on poor character.

My Sheltie has Hypothyroidism....commonly found in this breed of dog. Hypothyroidism occurs when there is a thyroid hormone deficiency which, in turn, decreases the metabolism of food (proper breakdown and distribution through the body). It induces weight gain from all the excess fat accumulation and fluid retention caused by protein deposits in the body. Proteins that would have been metabolize in a healthy body.

My sheltie is 40lbs. About 10lbs over for his height/bone structure. He's suppose to eat 3 cups of food per day. Before finding out he had Hypothy, I just thought the dog needed to eat less. SOOOOOOOO....I put this puppy on less than cups of REDUCED FAT food per day and walked him. He STILL kept on the pounds. He was ALWAYS hungry and begging, because I was starving him. POOR THING! What he needed were drugs to manages his condition and allow his body to properly metabolize THREE CUPS of regular food. He's lost 3 pounds.

So my point............he ate less, he got plenty of exercise......HE DID NOT LOSE THE WEIGHT!!! He didn't lose until the source of his inabilty to proper metoboize food was determined and address. It's not as simple as "eat less.....exercise more" when your body's metabolism is broken.

Obesity in this country is growing at epidemic rates. To put this rate into perspective -- if this rate continues at the rate it is going, 100 percent of all Americans will be over weight by the year 2020.

I've heard all the stories of metabolic conditions. I had a son born with a metabolic disease. He was missing an enzyme called n-acetylgalactoseaminidase in ever cell of his body. This prevented certain protein from being metabolized through his body. This disease did not cause obesity, It just caused his axons to balloon and cease to function. He died at age eight, ten years ago. Because of his condition I have probably read more about metabolic conditions that anyone on the face of the earth.

His pediatric neurologist (who is now my sister's husband) told me that all metabolic diseases are rare, especially the ones that cause obesity. It certainly does not qualify as a reason for the obesity epidemic.

I am sorry for your loss, Pieta, how painful a situation.

I don't believe the perspective justifies cruelty or disrespect. A solution needs to be a holistic one that addresses mind, emotion, and body. Mocking people for their problems is not going to be an effective approach to resolving the situation.

[quote]Obesity in this country is growing at epidemic rates. To put this rate into perspective -- if this rate continues at the rate it is going, 100 percent of all Americans will be over weight by the year 2020.[end quote]


Whoa, hold on a minute there, Pieta. Let's go back to some basics about numbers and statistics. No matter how much ANYTHING is increasing, it ain't going to get to 100 percent. Close, maybe, but not 100%

Your claim that eventually ALL americans will be obese is absurd. What about the anorexics? The bulimics? Will they too be obese. What about the athletes? The fitness buffs? Will they suddenly just "give up"?

Let's interject a dose or two of realism into our posts, shall we?

'preciate it.

Well, it was a number of things. The emotional factors were a big one. It's a little hard to even remember completely now - and I know that probably sounds a little like a cop-out, I would have thought so too before I went through this myself, but... As it turns out, there's a whole lot during the 10 years I was married that's really just a blur. I don't remember too much. I don't know if it's true for everyone, but a lot of people going through abuse like that just kind of block it out. I just kind of became numb to everything, and food helped keep me that way.

Still, I have plenty of family and friends during that time who said, even during those years, that they didn't understand, I really didn't eat that much. But there would be times - not a lot of times, but frequent enough - when something would happen, and I would eat a whole pint of Ben & Jerry's at home alone. That contributed, but wasn't all of it. Part of it was what I ate. It wasn't that I ate a horribly unhealthy diet, it was probably average. But for my body, given how much weight I was already carrying, it was evidently just horrible. My body evidently needed a completely new type of diet...and by diet, I mean new way of eating for the rest of my life, not a quick fix. What I'm doing now is really a form of the way I will be eating the rest of my life.

And I'll fully admit, I didn't exercise. It didn't start out that way. Back in college, I did Tae Kwon Do, and loved it, and was good at it. Once I got out, I didn't find a good dojo out here where I am now to continue, but I did go walking and other things at first. The problem is, I still gained weight, and the more I gained, the harder it was the exercise. The harder it was to exercise, the less I did, and the less I did, the more I gained. Vicious cycle, and hard to get out of. When you add some of the emotional issues on it, and then start adding in that once you gain some weight, you get abuse from random strangers when you do try to exercise just because you're fat and you're exercising, it's all pretty discouraging. Eventually, between the physical pain and the emotional pain, I gave up.

So, what changed? First, the divorce. I can honestly say that until I got out of that emotional abuse one way or another, there is no way I could have changed things with my weight. No way. And it took about a year after the divorce was final to deal with everything my ex had pulled on me between the emotional abuse and the cheating and such before I was even feeling close to having any kind of self-worth again. When you don't really think you're worth anything, when you've let someone else convince you you aren't, you certainly aren't going to bother putting in any effort trying to lose weight.

Once that happened, I was doing better, but was kind of on auto-pilot until I got diagnosed with pseudotumor cerebri. It's where the optic nerves swell for no apparent reason, and you have excess spinal fluid. It happens primarily in obese women, and they can give you medicine for it (which I am taking and which seems to have done the job), but the main prescription is, of course, lose weight. Not that I hadn't heard that before. And I probably would have just ignored it as usual, though this one did scare me. My mom had the same thing (though my mom is not obese), and came really close to losing her vision - it's a very serious and very fast moving condition. But then, my sister asked me to check out the Johns Hopkins program. And asked me to please give it a try. That's probably the only thing that would have gotten me to do it. She's my baby sister, and I've never been able to tell her no to much of anything, so I told her I'd try.

The program relies a lot on Medifast supplements, which are cereal bars, shakes, soups, things like that. The first month I did what they call "quick start," which is supplements only, 800 calories a day. After that, I switched to "living lite," which is what I am on now. That plan is where I am supposed to have 3 100 calorie supplements a day, 2 150 calore supplements, and one meal a day consisting of 4 ounces of very lean meat or fish (8 ounces of shrimp, crab, lobster, or scallops), plus either a salad (2 1/2 cups) or a cooked vegetable (1 cup). There are some restrictions on what the vegetables can be, i.e. no starchy veggies.

Even though I am supposed to be mainly on the supplements, I now do a lot of substituting, which is allowed, and eat mainly "real" food - as long as the calorie, fat, protein, and carbohydrate values are about the same, I'm allowed to do that. And really, I can basically have as much as I want of salad-type vegetables...I just have to be careful about any dressings, and count calories for those, or use some of the non- or very low-calorie and fat dressings that are out there. The bottom line is it is a high protein, low fat, low calorie, and low (sort of) carbohydrate diet, with carbs being allowed, but they are all supposed to come from veggies. I can have one piece of diet bread a day, but that's about it. Oh, and low (almost no) sugar.

Also, another thing I did, which was on my own, was give up soda completely. The weight management center just says we have to use non-caloric drinks, and drink at least two quarts of non-caloric fluid a day. But I have problems with nutrasweet, and actually, the medicine I take for my pseudotumor makes anything carbonated taste awful, so I had to give up soda completely. Again, I don't know how true it is for everyone, but I'm convinced that giving up the carbonation made a big difference too. I drink almost exclusively water now. I started doing that about a month before I started the weight loss program, and I actually did start losing a small amount of weight, plus my blood pressure went down a lot, when I made that change.

I have started an exercise program again too. Due to my weight (I was at 417 when I went to the weight management center) most exercise is still kind of hard on my joints, plus what I tend to enjoy the most is being in the water, so I am doing water walking. With the water resistance, I can get about the best workout in the shortest amount of time, and since I am a very busy person, that works well for me. Right now I'm going twice a week for 30 minutes each time. I'll probably bump that up to 3 times a week come March.

But I didn't really even start the exercise until about 3 weeks ago. Most of my weight loss so far has just been the dietary changes. And that's what the weight management center recommended too. I needed to get a little of the weight down first just to get some of the energy I needed to be able to exercise. It's amazing how much more energy I have now, even though I am only taking in between 800 and 1000 calories a day.

And I wasn't kidding about having to be careful about eating enough. I do think that was sometimes a problem in previous years too - I would go for days barely eating anything, and would then go and eat a few very high calorie items, such as my ice cream. Really, really bad!!!! What I was doing was putting my body in starvation mode, which would drop my metabolism down a lot, and then give it all kinds of calories, which, since my metabolism was really low, didn't get used, and went straight to fat.

Now, the plan I'm on is right at the low threshold for "starvation mode" - 800 calories. That means I really need to get all of my calories in every day, so my body doesn't think I'm trying to starve it. If I don't get all the calories in, my body will start trying to save up more of what I give it, instead of burning it off - lowering my metabolism. That's why the "just eat less" philosophy is not always a good one. Especially for people like me, who have dieted their way to being fat. I don't deny that would sometimes eat things that would help pack on weight. But most of the time, I didn't eat very much at all. And that was part of the problem. And then people, all meaning very well, like you haven't heard it before, tell you to eat less. And you sit there and think "how can I possibly eat less than I already do?" And feel bad, because once again, it's all your fault because you just can't seem to figure our what everyone else seems to just do naturally. You just can't seem to be normal like everyone else.

Whew. That's probably more than you were looking for!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you couldn't tell, there's YEARS of frustration here. I know it's tough for people to understand when they haven't lived through this. The part I don't get is why people assume that we all just whine and cry and want pity and don't care and etc. I'm VERY intelligent. I have a B.S. in computer science and math from Purdue, an M.S. in computer science from Johns Hopkins, I'm well-read, I play piano, I have all kinds of interests and hobbies, I'm active, I'm hardly home because I'm always out doing something.... does that sound like a non-motivated whiner to you? I've never failed at anything I put my mind to in my life...except for losing weight. And now, finally, that seems to be working, and I hope it stays that way. I think I've got it this time... but I'll tell you, it's anything but simple.

Killer, REALLY????????????? DAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STATISTICS 101 in 60 words or less.

Babies grow at a fast rate during their first year of life.

Fact: If a child continued to grow at this same rate he would be the size of a skyscraper by the time he was twelve.

We KNOW that children will never become skyscrapers but that does NOT mean that this "rate of growth" does not exist.

osxgirl:

Thank you for sharing. I'm the kind of person who struggles with 15 pounds, but I have two relatives who struggle with much, much more. And, I've always known they work a heck of a lot harder at it than I do. It's never seemed fair. Your post really helps me understand. Thanks.

Kathi

That's GREAT! So YOU of ALL people should know that "eat less, exercise more" is NOT the end all be all. YOU of ALL people (because of all your reading and physician BIL, not your son's condition) should know that for someone with the condition (and I personally know THREE people personally with the condition, so it can't be but SO rare) the body's inability to get rid of fat isn't about FOOD. It's about FAT not being able to be metabolized and broken down. And that it takes exercise, diet, AND medical intervention to lose the weight. I'm surprised that YOU of ALL people don't "get it"...with all YOUR knowledge of metabolic conditions. My sheltie is NOT overfed..he was UNDERfed and walked everyday. But it took medication to get his metabolism on track.


No one said that metabolic conditions are the cause of an obesity epidemic. That's not true. However you did simplify it by saying "eat less / exercis more" and that is simply not always the case.

I found the information Dr. Atikins presented in his books very interesting in terms of what actually happens physically when you are overweight. From a biological point of view.
Many people do not respect what he has to say, but it is a scientific observation that is true and has proven to be true. He of course then recommends his own program, and many people are suspicious of that.

I myself am diabetic and have thyroid issues. Both are inherited from my mother.I find that if I eat a diet lower in carbs, but also nutritional sound, I do not gain weight, my body feels well, and I have energy to exericise which helps me feel like exercising more.
I am able to manage both diseases through diet alone at this time and I feel very lucky to be abel to do so.

It wasn't too long ago in American history that some men wore their fat as a symbol of wealth and pride. They didn't have to work hard or chase down their dinners with a gun or plow some fields.

Now with a burger king on each corner facing a mcdonalds and a wendys on the other 3 corners, americans eat eat eat. And if we don't have the energy to get in our gas guzzling cars to make it thru the drive-thrus then there are various free pizza deliveries with 2 for 1 specials just waiting for our calls.

America is fat because no one has to hunt or grow their food anymore and that is why we exercised in the first place.