For me, the manipulation was key. Like Want2B said, it was great (at the time) that I could so easily make myself look like the victim. Then, in my mind, what I was doing wasn't so bad. I mean, if I made myself believe that my BS was the bad guy, then how cold anyone blame me? Plus, it helped to alleviate my guilt. It was quite a power trip.

So is someone heading over with flowers tonight?

I am sorry to be so nible minded, but should I try plan A and no LB's??? I am seriously looking for someone to tell EXACTLY what to do (plan wise, behavior wise). Or should I limit contact??? I sort of feel like since we are separated that I should try limited contact because so far throughout the separation we have spent quite a bit of time together... REALLY NEED HELP ON THAT ONE...

I never really thought of myself as passive agressive, but I am definitley going to read up on that article.

I am really scared now for when H gets back from trip because one of the girls I exposed to called him. He asked my why I called her and I said I didn't know... He knows why I called her...

I feel like thos OW has her hand up his back like a puppet making him say thing he never would. He sounds as if he does not care about us at all - even his tone of voice has changed. It is sooo wierd...

I am starting to get out more and am starting the gym again this week - even though I keep losing wieght like a champ - regardless of the gym...

Keep up ithe the weight loss!! Not only will it relieve stress and improve your appearance, it will improve your life - for you and your baby!

Unfortunately, Alison, he DOESN'T care about you. I know that's hard to hear/read, but he doesn't. If he cared about you and your feelings, he wouldn't be putting you through all of this. All he cares about is himself and will do whatever it takes to make HIMSELF happy. Only until his world is shaken up will he realize. That may not be until years from now but it will happen someday.

I would say that you should DEFINETLY not have contact!

Plan A and no LB's is always the plan for this early-on in discovery. You have been so busy exposing and dealing with his abuse that you haven't really had a chance to try it yet! Read up on it; it doesn't mean you're a doormat - it's a very strong, loving behavior, but it does have boundaries too! He needs to know that you aren't being vindictive, you're being strong. You aren't being emotional, you are relying on God. You aren't being mean, you are being resolute.

I understand the work-exposure issue too - it's ironic that the fear that they won't care and will do nothing is as strong as the fear that they will take it VERY seriously and fire his a*s, isn't it.

But there's that chance that they won't condone it, but they won't fire them either. And that might be okay - just them knowing that everyone knows, and one/both could be transferred or fired, and the management knowing, ... I really hope you just pray about it. As far as him losing his job, he probably won't get fired. I mean, depending on the company he might, but he probably won't. The company usually moves into "self-protection" which means taking reasonable action so that they don't get sued by your H, OW, you, ... legally companies hate firing people - but as SadMommy said they also have their ways of dealing with these kinds of issues. I'm sure the company of SadMommy's WH probably just figured, give the situation some distance from the exposure, let things settle out, then do something conservative to stop it or not condone it - (like offering her a lesser position than promised).

At our company, one OW's job was eliminated (quite a bit after the exposure of her workplace A) - but I would say she was hand-picked because of all her STOW tactics, dishonesty, and drama.

Another potential/forming EA was nipped in the bud during another round of job eliminations (again, not terminated because of the EA, but with his new baby at home I certainly didn't feel too badly about letting him go).

Another EA was eliminated by the OW leaving the company on her own, but where we normally would have considered rehiring her when she asked, because of the EA "we just didn't have the right position for her right now."...

When my H told his boss he was quitting because of the OW and wanting to reconcile with me, the boss worked out a very generous 1-2 month "work out of the office / separation pay" in addition to calling it a firing so that he could collect unemployment. All this because OW had been his supervisor, and being a public company with her in a very high position he could have sued sued sued for sexual harassment.

In another situation I know, same thing - OW and WH worked together - when the boss found out that WH wanted to work on his marriage and refused to be around OW, they let him work from home indefinitely - he did that for about 2-3 months before going on to start his own company and be out of there for good.

So, my point is that there are lots of potential scenarios other than him getting fired on the spot. The company won't probaby do that, but I don't think they "won't care" either - that's what HE wants you to think. That they already know, and they don't care. My H told him his boss was perfectly fine with the idea. Being in HR myself, I knew better - I knew his boss knew it was an HR nightmare.

Give your WH's employer a chance to do the right thing - or at least SOMETHING...

Just my thoughts...

MSA

I HAVE NOT gievn up on the exposure to work thing yet. Please know that I haven't... I just feel it is not the right step for me right now... I have been telling myself a lot lately, "what do I have to lose"... I don't care any more if he is angry - i just don't care. Deal with it dummy - that's what I say. But I am not going to take this lying down (he did, I know)... I don't care if he thinks I am a B*tch and that he can't trust me...

If he understood exactly what I am doing, he would probably respect it...

I just feel like this woman has this crazy HOLD on him. it is really wierd. I feel like she is his keeper. He seems like he is her little B*TCH... Doing whatever she wants, saying whatever she wants...

See, when I write this stuff I again think - why do I want this man??? If it was so easy for him this time, what is going to stop him next time...

I am wondering - of all of those who are recovering, how many have been through a couple more A's in the process???

I think maybe since I waited that I could say I "witnessed" some inappropriate behavior between the two of them while in CA???

That way - they may think it really was an employee...

You need to do it otherwise he will never take you seriously. It's not just the act of exposure...it's the whole message that you are sending.

I have said that I have not given up on this... Please know that I haven't... Again - I am doing the best I can. Am I going to make mistakes, yes - of course I am... I will take everything as it comes... I am doing this in the best way I see fit...

My gut instinct is telling me to wait and I am listening to it. Yes, I am scared, yes, I don't want to do it. BUT - I do know that it may just come down to that...

The help, support, and guideance I am getting here is incomparable, I know that, but I also have to listen to myself sometimes. MB has gotten me this far VERY quickly and I am so thankful...

My main priority right now is which plan... SO FAR - 1 for not contact and 1 for plan A... WHICH IS IT??? Please help!!!

I'm curious what has you asking this?

My FWH (I found out after the 'big A' was revealed) cheated on me during our engagement, had a ONS shortly after our wedding, had an EA with a co-worker about 3-4 yrs into our marriage and quit the job before it turned into a PA, had at least one ONS during his drinking problem shortly thereafter - all before the major EA/PA with OW. Then the "relapse" or "false recovery" was almost like another affair - it was the worst of everything we went through.

MSA

I ask because I said in a previous post, even if we do work this out and save our marriage, how do I knwo that H won't do it again - I guess just wondering what the odds are...

Not really wanting to go through this BullSH*T again...

I don't blame you!!!

It's a good question. I know before I decided I wanted to reconcile or even try with him, I asked posters here why they chose to reconcile - I was curious about their reasons. It was all over the board - love, kids, but for the most part it was because MB showed them that there was a way to do marriage better.

The odds of him doing it again... well, without counseling, without new tools for navigating things, without new boundaries - I wouldn't take the chance either.

ONCE the A is over, and ONCE your H wants the M again, and ONCE he is willing to do anything to save it and get you back... then you put important things in place such as:

*No contact ever again with OW (i.e. new job)

*Transparency & accountability (cell phone records, email, etc)

*Boundaries (recognizing the 15 steps of an affair; anatomy of an affair) - yes, this is NO opposite sex FRIENDS

*Policy of Joint Agreement (neither of you doing anything without the other's enthusiastic agreement) and Negotiation

*Emotional Needs - assessment, filling them, and regular checkups!

*LoveBusters - both of you learning to avoid them

*Radical honesty - by both of you (except IMHO that you have permission to snoop/check out your gut feelings without telling him, this is because of the trust that he broke; you may or may not decide to tell him later that you checked up on him - but it is POJA's from the get-go that you are allowed to do so whenever you see fit)

THESE are the tools that affair-proof your marriage.

Believe me, if anyone needed some tools, it was us!

I hope this answers your question...
MSA

Alison -

A huge vote for Plan A right now. Even though you are separated(right?) it can still be done. There are many here who have done Plan A this way. Read up on Shattered05's thread.

Kim

Okay - so that is 2 for Plan A.. But:

We have not really been that separated, he has come over almost every night for wine. I assume because he can't really be with her because she is with her kids...

I have tried, not that successfully to do plan A while he is here, but I feel as though we may seriously NEED to be separate from eachother for a minute... We are so used to having each other just "be there" it is hard to give it up... I realize that if he is not with me that he could potentially be with OW.

This is my dilema!!! Plan A with limited contact, or does he come over for wine and I give him a full does of Plan A???

FULL DOSES OF PLAN A..

There is no such thing as PLAN A with limited contact...

Alison,

It's time for meditation - who are you at your very best? What are you like - what do you do well - where do you shine?

How long has it been since you saw that woman in the mirror?

It's time for you to take your attention off of the train wreck. You can't stop it from happening, but you can be an attractive alternative to rubble! But only if you focus on living your very best!

It's time to shake the dust of the drama off of you - go exercise, breathe, count your blessings - they are there! Connect with God. Become FAITHFUL to Him. Trust that He has a plan for your happiness, when you can least see it, He still knows it and is working all these things for your good.

Be/Live your best self!

That is the clearest definition of PLAN A. Do it for you!

So I still invite him over for wine? I am just trying to be very positive about this Plan!!!

He said last week that we "really" haven't even been separated yet... That we need to be able to "miss" each other... UM HUM - what does that mean???

What would you do at your best? Remember - if you do all the work, he has no investment in the relationship.

Use the law of attraction rather than promotion - (it's a 12 step tradition - since you're wanting to break an addict from his addiction, it fits!)

First work on you - be noticable but not obvious.

This means that he wants you to OK his A..to enable his A..He does not plan to spend his time away from you ALONE..

If you agree to this plan, he feels better about being with her..telling himself that he did not initiate it on his own..that you agree to it..

I would recommend that you say: "I want to work on our marriage...the best way for us to do that is for us to be together and for us to spend as much time together as possible..not less time...

You should be stating that you want him to move back home..not spend less time with you...

Yes..invite him over for wine..

I would invite him to spend the night. I know that this is not a popular recommendation here but that is what I would do and did do....

Yes, mimi is right - He won't be alone. I offered to give my H space under the condition that he would spend time ALONE thinking about what he wanted. Ha.

Him & OW took weekend trips all over the state all summer long together. Ugh.