My H had an EA about 2 years into our marriage for about 6 mo. with a 17 year old girl (yup - a child). She loved the attention & seemed to do this with lots of guys/men. She's still doing it. She doesn't want a relationship with them, just favor & attention. My H was her boss and she wanted to be able to do whatever she wanted so she flirted, cried on his shoulder & he fell in "love" with her. He wrote her a love letter in which she replied "yeah, I knew that" and didn't act like it was a problem (even though she knew he was married & knew me). Fortunately for us, he was let go due to management change, went through withdrawls for a while & remained friends with her until D-day (4-1/2 years later). He now had NC after understanding MB's concepts.

Then, a few years after the EA, he had a PA with another co-worker. This one again, young girl (23- at least she was legal) flirted & pursued him for some time. He, again, was her shoulder to cry on, and was her boss. She had other A's before this one with co-workers/bosses as well. She waited for my H to make the first move, daring him to kiss her. Over time, he ended up doing just that. The A went on for 6-8 wks until it moved to oral sex. Then, his guilt was too big & he quit seeing her. He was afraid of getting her pregnant & of STD's so he never had intercourse. However, they still worked together for another 6 mo. or so until he decided to leave that job. She continued to pursue him for another 2 years until her wedding day (OH, yea! We got to attend that - wonderful memories). She quit calling him after that. He was too big of a coward to tell her to stop calling.

He also used magazines & the internet for porn, etc. Then, while on training for another job (for 6 wks away from home), he watched porn & he went to strip clubs where he was approached by 2 women there & he almost had a ONS with both girls. He didn't that night, but came back looking for those girls a few more times. He also went out with a guy friend from work & another girl where he held hands & danced with this girl who wanted him. He didn't want her so nothing else happened. Both times he was drinking so it's only by God's grace more didn't happen, I believe.

I have to say in your situation (as hard as I've been on you to follow MB), I don't know if I could do it either. I don't know if I could make it if my H had intercourse with someone, treated me like dirt & acted like it was all my fault. I don't know if I would be strong enough to follow the MB plan. I don't know if I would want him back. In fact, I still struggle with it now. My H wants me, he loves me & I feel like I still want to leave him & move on. My H had 2-1/2 years after the PA to get his priorities straight without me knowing or understanding before he came clean so it makes a huge difference because he is treating me well. I told him that he has ruined my "Cinderella Story". Obviously, I knew he wasn't perfect, but he hid himself so well that I had no idea what an evil liar he was. Our whole marriage has been a lie. Everyday, he was lying about something if those things that don't matter he would lie. Right now, I have okay days & bad days & really bad days. My H says he has no idea if I'm here to stay or not. And sometimes I don't feel like I want to be with him. My love units feel very low at this point, but I'm trying to keep my head on straight & make wise, longterm decisions - NOT emotional ones. My H says that he can tell that I don't look at him the same way. And I can't - not at this point.

Honestly, I've never forgiven someone who hurt me so badly. Usually, I walk away from friends, etc. if they really betray me. So, this is new territory for me. We met with our pastor about it & he say that I owed my H forgiveness since he was honest with me. That was tough to swallow. Then, he talked about us setting up boundaries so it will never happen again (like not working with women, or having women friends). He also told me that anger & bitterness will defile ME, not him. It will ONLY hurt me. He told us a story about his father leaving his mother. The father moved on & has a pretty good life. The mother was so bitter, she wasted 15 years of her life after he left feeling angry & bitter. It only hurt her, not the father who left. It's important to think about because I could so easily get caught up being angry & bitter.

Also, he told me that happiness is a choice. HOW HARD that may be, it is a choice. I have a hard time with this one too. It's hard to find the joy in such a trial. Think about it the way God sees it:

James 1:2-4
Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

James 1:12-15
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Remember even though your WH has gone off track giving birth to sin, you too can get off track if you allow bitterness in your heart.

As our pastor says "the concepts are simple, but it does NOT make them easy!" Just some thoughts...

Oh crap, Ok - I figured that's what he meant when he said he wanted real separation. Okay, I am on it...

I just read Shattered05's post - darn she is good - i need some lessons from her!!!

I will do my reading...

OMG MAJOR QUESTIONS... 1. The cake eating thing?? he is allowed to do that, right?? Oh - I don't think i can handle that...

2. I tell him I love him, but no R talk. Tell him I want him to come home, but no R talk. I assume R is either relationship or recinciliation????

3. He is going to come home pissed because I expose to another person, how do I handle that one??? Actually, how do I handle his anger every time I expose to someone else??

1, 2, & 3 - please help answer these for me.

Thank you - I am getting pretty psyched...Scared sh*tless, but psyched...

Want,

I am also this way. But my H, I don't think will EVER come clean... I really don't see it happening. Then what??

You never know if your H will ever come clean. Do you think mine would have? Lying all the time about every little thing. Literally! What changed him was hitting ROCK BOTTOM due to the A (OW was his ROCK BOTTOM). He began a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG journey of figuring out who he was & why he betrayed me. For me, the great part is that I QUIT LB'S without knowing about the A's. So, he had this great wife at the same time he was SOOOOO low. He was thinking "how could I have done this to her".

My situation came through another awful situation. We were in a foster-to-adopt situation (another reason his A ended). He told OW if we got kids, he couldn't be having an A (logical? NO). I guess having a wife didn't matter? Anyway, he did quit the A just before we got the kids. I decided that my behavior (LB's) was not appropriate in front of the kids so I never had LB's in front of them (notice I realized that I was doing something wrong, but kept doing it anyway until I knew others would see it). I was respectful of him as a father always in front of them. Then, by the time I would be alone with my H, I was tired & beat and wanted to strategize for handling the next situation/day (still no LB's). These kids had been very abused & were special needs children. The entire experience brought us together since we were working as a team. I think I gave him admiration (that he wasn't getting before) and I wasn't griping about unimportant tasks around the house, etc. My H quit his job to be home with them & I worked from home so we ended up for 6 months working daily together which helped our marriage & our focus. After a year that completely exhausted us, we decided we could not raise these children (long story) so we terminated the situation which put me in deep, deep depression & sadness so I was leaning on my H alot (he needed that too). Once that experience was over, LB's never returned. I learned what was important in life & those little things that use to irritate me didn't matter anymore.

Still, he was on that journey & I didn't know it. During the time we had the kids, we went to church but he didn't believe. I did, but he was just trying to do the dad thing. After the kids were gone, we quit going. BUT, he was searching for meaning on this journey & kept looking. About 6 months after the kids left, he got saved. This was the changing experience he needed to take responsibility for his life & actions. However, it took another 8 months for him to tell me (and weekly lessons in the book of James at church to convict him). The verse at the bottom about confessing is what made him realize he had to tell me.

I thought at that point, our marriage was AWESOME! Then, my world came crashing down. I believe he is a changed man, but rebuilding the trust is something else & forgiveness is very hard too. I will expect to use the full 2 years I've read about to recover this marriage.

So, my point is: I helped our marriage without realizing it. This is why I say "change you" "focus on you" because you cannot know the impact of it. It's the start that could bring the steps of change in your WH's life.

Also, know your H is at a low point (even if he doesn't act like it). Remember, he's in that dark, crack house doing drugs. How much lower does it get? That's why YOU & only YOU have the power to change the situation. You have the power to start a change in him, by CHANGING YOU!

I would say forgiveness & trust are something you'll have to think about later because you won't know for a long time how you will find those, trust me.

By the way, consider this article when you are thinking about whether you want to save your marriage or not:

http://www.americanvalues.org/html/does_divorce_make_people_happy.html

SOME INTERESTING POINTS FROM THE ARTICLE:
the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds. Among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy,[3] almost eight out of ten who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.

Many marriages that experience serious problems survive and eventually prosper.

Many currently happily married spouses have had extended periods of marital unhappiness, often for quite serious reasons, including alcoholism, infidelity, verbal abuse, emotional neglect, depression, illness, and work reversals. Why did these marriages survive where other marriages did not? The marital endurance ethic appears to play a big role. Many spouses said that their marriages got happier, not because they and their partner resolved problems but because they stubbornly outlasted them. With time, they told us, many sources of conflict and distress eased. Spouses in this group also generally had a low opinion of the benefits of divorce, as well as friends and family members who supported the importance of staying married.

we could find no evidence that divorce or separation typically made adults happier than staying in an unhappy marriage. Two out of three unhappily married adults who avoided divorce reported being happily married five years later.

THERE IS HOPE!!!!

Well, after the sleepless night I ahd last night, picturing th 2 of them togther, it is making it more and more difficult to think about saving the marriage...

I know this woman is evil and she has takn over my H. I am trying to have an "intervention" of sorts by all the exposure, but I am not sure it will work because h is so addictd and she is so powerful...

The more he is away from us and the more H and I don't speak, I know he is getting closer to her... It is killing me...

I am sriously questioning is character at this point. A man that would give up evrything good for a quick lay - I just don't know...

That is how I am feeling today. Unfortunatly, I go back and forth all the time. I wonder, Do I want to save my marriage or just get this woman away from my man. She is a thief...

I understand that loop-dee-loop on the roller coaster. I had to ask myself alot "I am afraid of losing my M or just being the 'loser' ".

I do wish, in my case, that we had been able to objectively looked at the M without the affair going on. The A taints everything for both parties. I asked my WH to give the M as much time and energy as he had given the A (at that point, it was only 2 months of phone calls). He just couldn't do it.

Carrot and the stick, that seems to be the best way. Do what you have to do to protect yourself and the kids. But don't rush into major decisions regarding the marriage. Focus on destroying the A.

I also procrastinated on exposure. My WH had told me all sorts of interesting things that would happen if I exposed. Well, the result was certaintly interesting, but was none of the scenarios WH had said would happen. They lie about everything.

I have been reading up on Plan A, and I think I have it, but boy that is going to b tough for me. I am vry reactive, as is H, so I will have to be on my BEST behavior.

He said the other day when I was Plan A'ing him that I was trying to hard and to stop trying so hard. I was making him feel at home, telling him I loved him missed him. RUbbing his back, gtting close to his neck. Doing things I had always done bfore, but haven't flt comfortable doing in a while.

He won't touch me, so I feel rejectd and sad, and he knows it. I unfortunately try to make him feel guilty, but it is not working. I do use the "I feel" statements, I try not to use you or blaming statemnts.

He hasn't acknowledged how badly he has hurt me or the family even though I have asked him if he knows how badly this has hurt all of us.

I feel that until h gets out of the fog and out of the A and admits his wrongdoing that he will see nothing wrong in his actions and will feel no remorse. I want this crackhead to com running back to us saying OMG - What have I done???

What in the world is my response to be when he says, "I need to work on myself first, then we can work on the marriage. I have a lot of issues to deal with right now. I want to be able to forgive, but I just have too much anger" --- What do I say to that??

Oh - and how in the world do I get him to move back into the house??? I have tried, blieve me...

And, when he asks me if he can continue his friendship with Traci, and I finally say NO, and he says h can't be in the marriage - then what do I do?? Let him go???

I think it is perfectly reasonable to say you don't want an open marriage and polygamy is not your thing.

I know how hard it is to plan A with WH gone, but Shattered is my poster child for out of the home plan Aing. It seems impossible, but she is pulling it off.

I don't think Plan A should be fakey. When your H is cheating on you, you certainly don't need to be rubbing his neck or acting like nothing is wrong. What you can do, is look great, make sure the house looks great, get yourself an interesting life (not only for yourself, which is most important, but to also be more alluring to him). I would be kind, warm, but distant in some way--just out of reach.

While you're doing all that, make sure that you collect evidence of the A, so that you can expose or you can use it in court. You also need to be able to show him that you know, where he can't squirm out of it and lie, later if you decide to work on the M. But don't show your hand now, and no matter how much the evidence upsets you or how livid you become, don't let him know what you have on him. Just keep collecting evidence, until you have a good case.

Make sure that you have every base covered. That way, you have CHOICES. If you decide to go on one path and take only one course of action, then if you change your mind later, you'll be kicking yourself that you didn't do what you should've at this point.

It's all too volatile right now for you to know what you want. As you're seeing, it changes daily, based on your mood, emotional state and your reaction to whatever your H does or says. So, make sure that you have as many options as possible. Don't be led by emotion. Be practical and be organized. Down the road, after you have everything laid out in front of you and you have some perspective, then you'll be in a better place to make decisions.

Alison - meet the needs he will let you meet. Don't expect him to meet ANY of your needs right now. He is in a self-abosrbed A. The WH is selfish. The "I feel" statements are the best way to go.

Are there any recreational activities that the two of you used to do together? See if you can get a babysitter & just the two of you go out for just recreation.

When he comes over, have the house looking good. Have a smile on your face.

He will not admit his wrongdoing or how badly he has hurt you. He is an alien right now.



Maybe reverse babble here -- Orchid is really great with that.

"Yes, WH you do need to work on yourself. I need to work on myself. We BOTH have a lot of issues to deal with. The issue here is that there is a 3rd party in our M that doesn't belong."

Alison, I was awful at Plan A. My WH was still living at home and it was so hard for me to control my crying. I wish I were able to detach myself more --- It's not easy, but can be done.

Take Care,

Kim

Kind, warm, distant. I may just b able to do that...

How do I get him back in the house?? It is definitley hurting us financially...

What do I do when I KNOW he is lying. that is the hardest thing for me. Should I just suck it up, not say a word and write it all down??

A marriage does not involve 3 people. Would you be o.k. with that? Would you be o.k. allowing the friendship to continue even if your H says that the A is over?

If he says NO, then he is making a decision there. Communicate to him for now that you don't believe a M includes 3 people. Continue to Plan A him, but don't give him an ultimatum. Just continue to let him know how much it hurts you knowing that the two of them are in contact and you don't approve of it. Set your boundaries up, let them know what they are.

Kim

KIM - If h doesn;t admit to a 3rd party, won't my saying the make him mad and also be an LB???

And doing nothing is SURE to not work. The OW thanks you for helping her hide her secret affair with your H. You are helping her pursue her affair with your own H by keeping her secret. Do you realize that?

No. Do you know what a lovebuster is?

Yes, I have read about them, but I know this would greatly piss of my H because he denies it so whole heartedly, I think he would see it as an LB...

That is not a lovebuster. A lovebuster is:


Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty

A lovebuster is defined by YOUR BEHAVIOR, not by his reaction. Read up on lovebusters here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html