Thank you all so much for you support and kind words. And the little laugh, oddly enough, my H's OW looks like a shorter 5yr younger (not as well endowed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />) version of me. I thought that so odd.

Well after MC tonight we got home and had a continued talk, somehow a 1hr appt. doesnt seem like enough time to even catch your breath none the less feel like you have gotten anywhere with the conversation before she is standing up saying ok well we have to stop, see you next week, can I have your co-pay.

H and I both got home and talked and he said to me, I have to ask, do you feel like I do, that we get more out of our conversations at home than we do at the MC? We both shared a chuckle.

I dont know what to make of this evening, as usual I feel confused. I expected to walk into MC and my H to start going off on how this is all my fault and what not. Which to some extent did happen, because we did discuss how much what happened with me last year hurt him and how he is still trying to find a way to recover from that, but that he is finding it to be more than difficult to move on from.

But he also lay blame on himself. For being tremendously difficult in that regard, and very filled with anger at this point, and that he bears a grudge that he is trying to contend with, but doesnt know how to put at bay. He said he is here because he wants to try. He came to the realization that it takes him a very long time to get over things that he loves deeply and looses or gets hurt by. I think there was some good that came of the MC tonight, and far different than what I was expecting.

When we talked further when we got home. He told me of how much he is in love with me. And how beautiful and amazing he thinks I am, and even more-so because I am pregnant with his baby. He also told me how mad at me he is, and how he doesnt know how he is going to find a way to get over the things that are hurting him so deeply.

I am trying to take everything with a grain of salt, and not to get blindsided, but I also want to believe in my H. I want to believe in the man that I fell in love with and the man that I married. The thing that he told the MC that was bothering him the most was 2 things. One was the house, which I am working on getting the remodeling completed. The other is my suspicions and he says it makes him feel like I am acting like my mother, and he hates my mother more than any other person in the world. And I told him that the thing that was hurting me so much (aside from my feeling about the OW) was that he does not believe in what I say and that he instead takes what I say and turns it around or just doesnt believe it all together.

So, I told him that I would make him a promise if he could make one to me....I told him that I would believe in him wholeheartedly if he could do the same for me. He said that he could do that. So I am not going to wear my suspicion on my sleve as I suppose I have been, and I am going to get him to believe in me and trust me by having him be positive towards me, and not adding negative connotation (sp?) to everything I say.

I dont know if there is an A or not...I am still uncertain, and despite efforts, have been unable to validate anything as of yet. I am not giving up though, I will keep my eyes and ears open and I will continue on with the plans that I have to try and get that validation.

My H said that he is deeply in love with me and always has been, but he didnt know if that was enough anymore. I told him this:

The love he has for me and the love I have for him is at our core. It is what brought us together in the beginning and what has kept us together all this time. The rest of the things that make a marriage good, and what made our marriage good are built around that love. Some of our blocks fell down. But the love is still there, and if the love is still strong, then the blocks can be picked back up and rebuilt.

I am going to keep with plan A and keep trying to improve myself and my marriage. I am going to keep pushing myself to try harder everyday, I am going to wake up in the morning and tell myself to smile despite the way I might be feeling.

Im not sure why I feel strong at this particular moment, because really nothing has changed with what my H has said to me, he still wants out of this house, and still says he doesnt feel like my H, still has not put back on his wedding ring, and still says that he feels somewhat like he should just move on because he doesnt think things will ever change, and he still wants to get a divorce if things dont get better soon.

He also apologized to me at the MC for saying to me the other day that I was a detriment to his life, and apologized to me again for that comment in the car when we left and again at home. He said he was angry when he said that, and it is the farthest thing from true. He said that everything he is and has become and where he has gotten in life is because of me.

Im wondering several things as I am reflecting on all the things he said tonight. And wondering what the possibilities are. First off my H is a really bad liar and always has been, he has never been able to lie to me about anything and get away with it. I cant believe that all of what he said to me tonight is a lie. On the other hand I also have a hard time understanding how he can be so easy-come-easy-go about our marriage.

I still feel as confused as ever, but I know I have to do something...I cant stop being pro-active, I cant give-up. Im not willing to give up, my marriage, my husband, my family all mean to much to me for me to give-up, so Ill press on.

And I am ever so greatful to have all of your support and and advice and shoulders to lean on when I am needing it most. I am forever greatful.

Heidi,

You are truly a gem...my prayers are with you...

Mrs. Wondering

P.S. Mr. Wondering and I were talking this morning about taking a little trip to Chicago to be your "Affair Busters" if (1)You don't get that P.I. and if (2)we can get a babysitter...Hey, it's only a 4hr. drive from here, it would mean time alone for us, and we ADORE Chicago...who knows...keep us posted...TAKE CARE OF YOU!!!

sounds like progress.

It sounds like your husband is a living contradiction. Odd.
His contradictions don't make sense to me. I hope he isn't in an A but I still have my doubts. Good to stick with plan A.

All the best to a special lady. Take good care of yourself.

You all are too sweet and too kind. I personally feel like I am a naive fool, and that I am being played.

This morning my H told me that my IL's main concern last night was that they think I am going to not let them watch the kids while I am in the hospital having the baby. Not that they are concerned with the health and success of our marriage. Nor are they concerned to call me and see how I am doing, despite the fact that I have called them several times expressing to them my concerns and whatnot.

But their only focus is on babysitting while im in the hospital.....seems a bit ooooh i dont know like the wrong thing to be worring about when there is the possibility of the marriage falling apart all together.

It seems to me if they were worried about something they should be trying to help us in anyway they can. My H says his parents only know what I have told them, and that he tells them nothing about the way that he feels. I dont believe it at all.

I am still going to stick by what I said last night. My suspicions just have not gone away or been eased in anyway by anything he says....they are probably worse today.

Hello Heidi;

Mrs Wondering and I are still thinking about you. Hope you get the proof you need this weekend. I don't think your IL's know what is going on which is good. It will make exposure so much more effective. I doubt he'd tell them as they'd be more concerned about the business and maybe rein him in on his spending. They are in for a shock and since they are close to your children there is always that unspoken threat that if they take his side and enable WH too much that they could lose a lot of contact with their grandchildren. You can help by ensuring that they will always be a part of your family no matter what and hope they do the right thing and help you. Blood is thicker than mud but sometimes people surprise you.

Mr. Wondering

Hi there wondering family..as always a delight to hear from you and utterly touching that you all think of me.

Sorry I need to vent......
Tonight I talked with my H. First we talked while we ate dinner, he talked to me a bit about work and the new employees that he is bringing to the company. Then he told me how he and his father took OW out to lunch at a french restaurant because she had never been before and they wanted to celebrate the new growth of the business, and what it is going to mean for the future.

Then he tells me some cockamamee story about her soup and that he thought it was curried chicken soup (in a french restaurant) but she convinced him to try some and it was really butternut squash soup. Now this is probablly really uninteresting for you, but for me, I have been trying to get my H to try this since I have met him, or any kind of squash for that matter, but his mother had put in his head at a young age that he was allergic so he would never even let it near his lips. And now he trys it and comes to tell me how right I was that he would love it and that it was so delicious he ate half the bowl. I just smiled a stupid smile.

He is still not wearing his ring. I asked him how he felt after last night. He really doesnt like MC, nor does he feel that it is helpful, and says there is no way that woman is going to help me or get me to believe that this will be better. Her idea of me feeling better is to tell me that I am a strong person because of the things that I have been able to overcome in my past and this too I should be able to work through if it was important to me.

Then he said something that was truley remarkable to me. He said that a year ago when I was suffering from depression so bad that I shut down completely that I may as well have been sucking the mailmans **** because my depression is the same as if I had an affair. And to him that he feels depression is the same as infedelity. He says there is no way that I or anyone else can change his mind about that. He further added that I use depression as a crutch to make excuses for not meeting the things that he has asked of me for years and years.

I was crying so hard I couldnt believe it. He looked at me sitting in the chair next to him and started to get an angrier tone in his voice. He said that for years his needs have never been important to me, and that I choose to ignore what he asks me because I have always had alterior motives and that my end goal has always been something else.
I felt my head literally spin....I had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. I asked him what it was that was so important to him and I chose to do nothing? He couldnt come up with anything.

You see even after we talked about him leaving paramedicine, and going to work with his father, which his father asked him to come work for him, I didnt say hey go ask your dad for a job and leave this other work. But we did talk about it and together decided it was a good idea for our family and our futures. At any rate, after awhile he still wasnt happy with the choice and regreted leaving what he loved and held a grudge with me about it and took out his anger on me. (He never stands up to his parents about anything, even when its directly about them and how they are treating him) At any rate, my brother had been talking to me about becoming a paramedic, and since I had done all the research b4 for my H ( I am the one that got him interested in it to begin, found him and got him into an EMT school, sat with him every night and helped him study, then helped him get a job with an ambulance co, then found and got him into paramedic school, and helped him study and supported him all through that) my brother decided to look to me and my H for info on him persuing this career. At that time I talked to my H about him going and getting his license again, and that it would be good for him and he can go through the classes again with my brother whom he liked and got along with very well. He was very excited. I made all of the phone calls and got my H and my brother signed up after I went to the school to get all the paperwork and talked with the instructors. I paid for my H's classes and he went with my brother for about 3 weeks. Then he said he cant do it, its too hard he doesnt have the time to dedicate to it as he would want to and he dropped out.

I told my H that the things that he says makes me feel like an idiot. He says one of the problems he has with me is that he asked me to find a social group of at home moms like myself with a 3 year old boy for our son to play with while our daughter is at school in the afternoon. I looked when he asked me and couldnt find anything at all in our area. I had to go 30min away to find these kind of groups, and I didnt see that as very practical, I thought Id meet some moms when my daughter started school and that I could work off that. I am not a social butterfly, I dont walk into a room of strangers and feel comfortable walking up to everyone and have an instant friend, my H is that way. So he expects that I should be able to also. Its just not that easy for me.

So this is one of the things he brought up to the MC, and she said that is something we can work on and that I can learn some skills to help me feel more comfortable and be able to do that more easily. This too my H feels is not going to be made better despite the fact that the MC said it could be better.

She also told him that depression can be treated and managed, he didnt believe her and says there is no way she will ever get him to believe otherwise. And now he has that opinion of it being the same as infedelity.

I saw something this evening....as we were talking about things from our past. As I was talking about things in our past that were so good and that we did together, and telling him all the ways that I show him love, and devotion and caring, understanding, support, admiration, pride, family, hobbies, interests etc....and we are talking about these things, he got up to get a drink and as he turned around from getting his drink, the conversation went from being calm and nice to him having a raised voice and being angry and mean.

Thats when he started throwing out insults, and telling me how I havent cared for him in years and that I have always had alterior motives, and that my focus has been somewhere else. That I would be happier with someone else because that is what I have been showing him for years now. He said that my depression was prof to him that I dont really want to be with him because I wouldnt have turned him into the bad guy and pushed him out of my life. (This despite the fact that even the MC told him that is very common with depression that the people closest are the ones pushed away, she also explained much more to him about depression, but he says he doesnt believe her) (She is a PhD, btw and pro-marriage).

During my depression I pretty much gave up everything in my life, he came one day with a moving van and took pretty much everything we owned...I didnt care....I didnt even have a bed left. He took all the photos, every wedding gift, anything that had come from his family, anything that was his, our ketubah (Jewish marriage license) my ring, pretty much anything of importance. I had my clothes in boxes on the floor, and I took turns sleeping in my kids beds. I barely ate for 2 months, I lost 30#'s. I only slept about 2-4 hours a night. He would come and get the kids on the friday night. Id drive to the city to my parents house, id go to the local tavern with my brother and drink until I could barely stand up (I am not a drinker at all) I would leave there go to my parents throw up and pass out on the couch. Id sleep and sleep and sleep, get up and drive myself home and wait for him to bring the kids back to me. Id compare myself more to a zombie than to someone having an affiar.

He says depression is the same as infedelity, he says it is a crutch, a handy excuse for the truth of me not really wanting to be with him. He says that I was able to make decisions, that I chose to do what I did, and that I should accept the consequences of my actions. I live with those consequences everyday, and up until recently had thought I was doing a good job of restoring the damage I had done, my H even had been telling me I had been. He fogave me and said that he trusted me again and that things were going well, he was happy and so was I.

The therapist described to him the illness that is depression. That it is infact an illness that is diagnosable and treatable. He said he knows that. He said that he didnt think he could invest the time into trying to work on bettering my illness.

Someone said to me that my H's comments are like finding out your spouse has cancer or may never walk again, or something that requires lots of treatment and support, and then saying to your spouse ok good luck with that but Im out of here.

But even at that he knew the day I met him that I suffered with depression, and he wanted to be there for me, and be my support and he has been for all these years until now.

Now he has begun to turn eveything against me, anything I have ever done wrong in the past 10 years and even stuff that I didnt do, and have never even heard him mention before.

He said we have 2 months. 2 months before he leaves. 2 months for him to decide if he will stay or go. He has a very detailed plan outlined for what will occur in the event of a divorce. He has ZERO plan for what we can do to work on and save our marriage. He says he shows up everyday and thats all he can do.

Its hard to keep standing up when he keeps pushing me down. It is hard to keep fighting the fist of adversity. It is hard to continue to listen to him hate me, and deplete my already low self-esteem. He says he is not my H, that he doesnt feel like my H. And I look at my belly and cant believe I am about to have a baby with him. At this moment I cant even imagine having him in the room with me. I love him so much, I feel like part of me is dying, and I cant imagine the day I give birth to this beautiful child that we created together out of love, and to have him be there with the way he is currently acting, the image is killing me.

Im lost.

OMG sorry for all the lovely spelling. hard to type and cry sometimes.

{{{{{Heidi}}}}}-

I've got more to post to you, but it's late so I'll have to do it tomorrow...just wanted you to know that we are still thinking about you and praying for you...your situation is in the forefront of our minds constantly lately...Trust me, I can empathize with your depression so deeply...more later...

Try to remember that all the hurtful things that he is saying is to you is TRULY WS FOG BABBLE...speaks volumes about him, not you...

Blessings,


Mrs. Wondering

I agree that what your H is saying is fog babble. That is the best explanation/ It is best to see it that way and not take it as his honest feelings. He is justifying his A with OW by blowing up all your past out of proportion. Especially since you were doing so well together before he flipped. I am sure he had some resentment built up, but normally when people see improvements they will work with that and move forward not the opposite.

It is imperative to get proof and expose. That way he won't be able to continue to push this all onto you and you will be able to effectively put a wrench in their A to burst the fantasy bubble.

Heidi, I'm so sorry for the sadness and grief you are feeling right now. I'll be praying for you today.

(((((((Heidi)))))))

Heidi,

Was your serious bout of depression post-partum depression? Did your H do anything to try to help you when you were so sick, or did he just get frustrated and walk away?

I don't know if it does any good to try to reason with someone in the throes of an active A. I think his comparing clinical depression to an A is pretty much admission of what he's doing. He's trying to justify his behavior. The fact that he's arguing with a therapist shows his mindset, of justifying his behavior to ridiculous lengths.

Like others have said, you can't take anything he says personally. He's being completely evil right now. It seems that there are two things that are turning him into this monster right now-- one is the A and the influence of the OW, who is obviously trying to get him to buy her a new house, car and commit to leaving you on March 1. The other is his not managning his diabetes. There's nothing you can do about either one right now, except get undeniable proof of the A and expose to his parents to try to get them to help.

Are you still planning on recording in the car today during the ballet lesson? And if the Wonderings can help you, please let them. It is so obvious that you are a good person and that you and your kids deserve a chance at an intact family. I wish your H could see the hurt he's causing to everyone, including himself, and get control of himself. Once this A is out in the open, I hope his parents do the right thing and fire the OW and lay down the law with your H about his behavior at work and his responsibilities to his family.

Stay strong. Try to channel your sadness into action to get evidence of his A as soon as you can.

Thank you all once again for all of your kindness and support. I do know that it is all fog babble, but it doesnt make it hurt any less. Today in the grocery store he called me a emotional bit*h. He has never called me a name like that before, I started crying in the damn store, he apologized.

I did put the recorder in the car, and today was the first time that he said Im going to come in with you guys, I couldnt believe it. We came out and I was going to go to the bank to deposit the check and presumed he would go back to the car, but nope, he came with. So I didnt get any recordings at all.

He told me he is going out with Mike tonight to go drinking. (This is new too for my H, he never drinks)He said he's going to wait for the kids to fall asleep before he goes so he doesnt upset them. (Im going to make sure they stay up late) Im not going to let him sneak out on the kids to make it easier on him.

He is trying to be overtly nice to me today, I think he has guilt. Even after he finished being mean to me last night he begged me to come sit in bed with him, and he looked at my Pottery Barn catalog and was commenting on how much he liked things in there and he would point out things that he knew I would like and that he liked too.

As soon as I find out what his plans are for tonight I am going to arrange to have him followed. And he has plans to go out Tuesday night and Im trying to arrange to have him followed then too.

He woke up this morning and left at 8am to go have breakfast with "Mike" and go rent him a Durango so he can go tailgate at the Bears game tomorrow, he also gave him the co. CC so he can buy food and beer to feed the "clients" that he is taking to the game on the tickets the co. bought. If any of you are looking for a job with a freight brokerage, you should really call my H because they are the most generous employers I have ever heard of in my life.

Oh and OW is bringing my H all her real estate paperwork for him to look over for her because she is putting her trailer-home on the market on monday. Her best friend is a realtor and the one listing her trailer, but she calls my H and asks him what to list it for and to look at the papers. He knows nothing about selling trailer homes.

I think he was feeling guilty about the horrrid comments he was making to me last night. He came up behind me this morning and put his arms around my shoulders and kissed the back of my left shoulder. It only lasted a short moment, but it was a tremendous amount of affection compared to what I have gotten from him in the past month and a half.

He stopped taking his Lexapro 3-4 days ago. I guess ill see what comes of that.

We are supposed to go to the kids museum with his parents tomorrow and I really dont want to go out with them at all. They have been kind of stand-off-ish to me and I dont really know how to feel about them right now. Especially because they never before have wanted to take the kids to do stuff like this unless I suggest it first.

Also my belly hurts and its hard to walk around for a long time. 18 days left until my due date. Im scared.

OOOh about my depression, no it was not post-partum. It was a multitude of things that had built up and I didnt realize the effect it was having on me, I was too focused on my daughter and making sure she was adjusting ok, and trying to unpack and make this house our home. Then winter hit and the depression hit me like a ton of bricks and then some. I didnt know what was going on.

And no, he did not do anything to help. Apparently he and his mother had discussed that I was probably suffering from depression but none of them did anything drastic to get me help. During our first MC session my H told the MC that he told me by calling me something out of anger like that I was insane or something. During our 2nd MC session he told the MC that he came to me and told me that I needed to get help, and that I called the # from our insurance and tried to get an appointment with someone but I didnt go, he said that I told him that he was the one with the problems and that he should go. I have no recollection of any of that happening at all. I wish that they had stepped up and taken me to get help, but the truth is that they didnt. Not just his family, but my family didnt either. Nobody did anything, nobody said anything. I got through it on my own thankfully I got thru it, and then I had to try and make everything better, repair all the damamge. I thought I was doing well.

But apparently not.

I have the worst luck.....

He said he was going out tonight, so after my failure at getting proof this morning, I took the recorder out of my car and put it in his. And what does he do. He asks if he can take my car!!! I couldnt believe it. He never takes my car. He says, if I take your car I dont have to drive anyone else around with me because there is 3 car seats in it. And also he says my car is way nicer than his car and he felt like driving mine.

He got pissy with me tonight because I told him that it would be really nice if we could spend a night together. He said I spend every night with you, I told him that coming home late, eating dinner, and going to bed early did not constitute spending the night with me.

He said he has to go because he has to meet with the same guy he went out with on Tues. night. and Mike. ohhh and he said maybe OW and her BF would be there too. she now all of a sudden has a boyfriend named JT. I wonder if she calls him "J" some kinda crazy irony??? hmmmmm most ppl call my H by that nickname "J".

He took his office keys with him and said that if he gets bored out drinking with these ppl that he may go back to his office and hang out there for awhile.

He was very instant on puting the kids in pajamas and in bed b4 he walked out the door and I think he wanted to take my car because there is only one car seat in his car. But he did think so kindly as to leave us the keys for his car stating that if there is a fire the kids and I have a warm place to sit.

He told me he was going to Champs, but he said he wished he hadnt told me that because if I call there looking for him and he is not there because Mike decided he wanted to go to Idols instead he didnt want me to get pissed. I personally dont think he is going to either place.


The best part of this whole thing is that he told me the only reason he even decided to go out tonight is because I suggested it to him. I couldnt help but laugh out loud. I was like Im sorry did I hit my head and in the midst of my haze I said hey why dont you go out drinking and leave us home alone tonight? He said no, but you asked me if I was going to go out on Saturday night and that is what made me think I should. In the 10 years we have been together I have never asked him if he was going out on any night. After he yelled at me for awhile, he said maybe I missunderstood you yesterday, I was like when? The only time I talked to him was to ask him if he was coming home soon so I could have dinner ready. At which point he said he was leaving in 15 min and didnt show up for almost and hour and a half. Calling me part way thru to tell me he was bs'ing with Mike.

Maybe I am wrong about the OW and its really Mike!!!!!
Nah, thats the one thing I know for sure is not happening.

I was thinking about calling Mikes wife but I dont want to piss of my H even more, and I dont know if she would be honest with me and I dont know if she would tell Mike that I talked to her. And Mike would for sure tell my H. I dont know her that well, and I have never called her to chat before so I dont know.

Heidi,
Are you deleting your history in the computer each time? It almost seems like he is reading your posts.

Yeah i sure do, so odd you say that... I thought the same thing, also wondered if he had the phones tapped or something, it is very odd though i dont know what to do now.

maybe I need to stop coming here.

don't stop coming here.

if Heidi is your real name, maybe you should switch screen names.

If you do that, please go to one of Melody Lane's posts and send her an email. That way, she can let several following your post closely know the new name. Or go to the Wonderings and do that.

Pick a name that he won't figure out and don't post specifics as to religion, Mike's name, etc.

I have a question for you. are you Jewish as well? I mean did you grow up in a Jewish family? Is the susupeced OW Jewish?

How about trying to get a GPS like Willingtowait. She was able to get proof the first time.

yes i am jewish, and no my parents are catholic. I grew up in a jewish communtiy with lots of jewish friends, and as an adult decided to make the conversion to judiasm.

No the OW is not Jewish.


I just cant handle this anymore. I called him 3 times he didnt answer the phone, then he called back and I asked him where he ended up tonight, he said nowhere yet, I was like you have been gone over an hour and you are nowhere???? why wont you tell me where you are if you are so honset and have nothing to hide. He said i dont feel i should have to tell you, but i am close and I will be home soon.
I hung up with him, and called him back after a minute, 3 more times i called, lucky i didnt go into labor, id be sitting here by myself with the kids sleeping, or had to call an ambulance by now.


This whole thing seems futile now.