I can't tell you how many people have told me to act "as if"..... I can't fake ANYTHING ... well I have been able to fake .... er ... um ..... (that's another therapy session)<P>But to fake enjoying someone's company, enjoying someone's touch ... I cannot do that ... absolutely cannot.<P>

Eeeek .... double post!<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited September 29, 1999).]

Gee whiz, this is depressing.<P>This makes me think that Harley is right in HNHN, that the straying spouse is always in love with the other person.<P>And if that's true, well, why the heck bother? <P>I'm not judging any of you, but it sure must be hard on your spouses. I'm not sure I could live forever with that; knowing I was "second best."<P>There seems to be a common thread here -- that none of you ever really had that "spark" with your spouse. Do you think that would have made a difference, if you HAD had that early on?

Yup, it's gotta be hard on the spouses. That's why I don't share these feelings with my H. I cannot bear to hurt him anymore. I just figure I'll "get over it" someday.<BR>

Hi guys,<BR>Airheart, I was thinking about you after reading about how you were crying in your wifes arms and I was going to try to paint a picture for you. I don't think I will now after reading this thread. I cannot tell you how sad I am right now reading this. I am not here to throw darts at you by any means. This just goes to show you how much hope people put into reconcilliation. You can't help how you feel, and you can't be blamed for wanting more in your life. It is probably niaeve(?) to think couples can actually go back after such an exciting time as the in-love awakening. Even if it was based on alot of false expectations, it still happened and the feelings, the all important feelings got to be aroused. <BR>Even as I watch my house being sold and my wife starting to live her new life separate from me, I was still holding on to a little hope that she would come back but really how could she? Based on what you are feeling all your marriages were the lie... and mine too. I feel sorry for all of us here, the pain is something that we will all live with the rest of our lives. One of the byproducts of this beast called infidelity. You guys know feelings you have never felt before or ressurrected feelings that have been gone and now are living with that knowledge. I have to live with the knowledge that I was never the right one even though I thought I was for the longest time.<BR>I am so sorry you all are feeling this way, I wish we could all go back and do it differently. People change, it's too bad thier marriages don't change along with them.<BR>Again I know you can't change the way you feel...... I just needed to ramble....<BR>Michael

Maya<P>My wife has many the same feelings that you do. The other man was already living with another women while he was telling my wife how much he loved her. She still misses him. This is not easy for me to hear, but at least I know where I stand. I wish I had some words of comfort for you. <P>I'm off to round 2 with the mediator this afternoon.<P>Tom

Dazed - I do share this with my spouse. Sometimes the tears are too hard to hide. It is like he doesn't know what to do about it. I tell him, we need total honesty in our relationship. We can't hide any secrets from the past, because it is being held between us - it is keeping us from that intimacy...... Oh, well - he says I'm crazy.<P>Great for the healing, ya know?<P>But anyways, we DID have that passion. I wouldn't miss it if I never had it, but we had it. <P>I'm glad I had it. I'm sorry it's gone.

It is depressing...I'm scared I will always be in love with the OM! I actually just called him and let the phone ring only 3 times and then hung up. My hands were shaking uncontrolably when I hung up...just like a drug addict going through withdrawls.<P>I was saying to my husband last night that if I wasn't married it wouldn't be that hard to get over the OM because I know that I would be able to find that "in love" feeling with someone else. But since I'm married now I have to grow up, be mature, and make love a decision not a feeling.<P>I've been dumped by guys before...and, yeah, sure it hurts, but it's always been easier to get over them when I knew another guy could be just around the corner. Shallow of me, huh!<P>Tamis--<BR>I too am looking for some magical answer on this forum. I'm hoping that one day I'll read something that will smack me across the face and make me say, "oh, I get it now"!!<P>I also agree with you about being afraid to have friendships with other men for fear of falling in love. I guess I fall in love too easily...especially when people admire me. There's actually another guy, besides the OM, who was just recently saying to me how dissapointed he was when he found out I was married and another guy who gave me his own private line if I ever wanted to call him at home and his wife would never find out.

I don't think I ever went through much of an infatuation phase with my husband - I was attracted to him, obviously, and he very soon became my best friend. I don't recall ever feeling really "bowled over" or any of the similar feelings recounted here. But I remember very clearly realizing that I loved him - it was a feeling of overwhelming peace. Izzy, obviously I don't think that infatuation stage is necessary - I still love my H very much, and he has been gone for seven months.<P>Maya,<BR>My H said once that if he came back, that I would be happy, implying that he would not. Perhaps he is resentful because he thought I always got the happiness I wanted. During his bouts of depression, which each have lasted at least a couple of years, he has been irritable and often mean. I have certainly not always been happy, but perhaps I just didn't require as much to be content. It is not that I had more to be happy about than he did, it is just that it took less to make me content. I am not sure if he is capable of being happy for very long.<BR>

d&c -- I think absolutely it would be different if I had those feelings at the beginning... Maybe possibly I never would've even strayed!!<P>I get so bummed when I think about all the pain I've caused my wife, and I think maybe it would've been better for her if we never got married. Then she would've had a chance to find someone who truly loved her with all his heart! <sigh><P>mkn -- please don't get depressed just cuz of a few of us! There are plenty of other success stories out there. And I don't plan on giving up yet. I don't know how long I'm willing to try, but I'm not giving up. I so much want to be a success story.<P>My wife knows exactly where I stand on everything. I'm still pretty amazed she's keeping me. She hates the "second-best" thing. Shoot...<P>--andy

Dazed: I am not still in love with the OP and it doesn't sound like too many on here are either. We are just in love with the affair. The feelings, emotions, attention, the whole thing. For many of us, like me, we thought that during the rebuilding of our marriages that we would be able to recreate the feeings we had with the OP's with our spouses(because we love them and want it to work out more than anything). But, as you have read, try as we might, none of us has been able to accomplish this. We think about the affair when we see lovers or happy couples or hear love songs. It makes us sad.<P>In my case, I am trying SO SO hard to accept that the man I married, and have been with for 27 years, is the one God wants me to be with. He is wonderful and I do love him so much. I would give ANYTHING to feel for him what I did for the OM though. I ache for that. My H knows all about my feelings. We discuss this a lot. There just doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it. Hope you don't hate me too much for being honest.

I do think it would have been easier to get the feelings back if H and I had an intimate emotional bond before the affair. (actually I'm fairly sure the affair would not have happened at all if that were the case). But since we did not ever have it, it just feels impossible. There is a saying "you don't know what you're missing" and that applies here. Before I had met OM, I didn't even know what an intimate friendship could be like. And after you know what you are missing, well- you miss it...<P>Maya, I'd love to e-mail- my address is **edit** <P>tamis

Hi Folks,<P>I have no idea if this will mean anything....I've been thinking of how it might be for my H (yeah, I know, I shouldn't speculate...just trying to understand!) and the lack of "something" within our marriage.<P>I know that the exceitement and variety of the lifestyle that he is into right now is the main attraction for him.<P>The way I see it there are three choices for him to make.....<P>1) Keep jumping from one relationship or activity to another whenever someone or something starts to smell of the routineness that he experienced with marriage and life.<P>2) Come back home and work on the marriage with me.<P>3) Take a good look and try to figure out what exactly is the missing ingredient to the unhappiness by eliminating the possibilities of what it could be.<P>What I mean by the 3rd is - maybe it's not your "spouse" per sey....maybe it's simply the routine of it all. Maybe it's the finality of the "fun of the chase". Perhaps it's something inside that needs to be released through fun and adventure with some mystery!!<P>It could be anything!!!<P>I know that I have sometimes felt a yearning for the above things : to have some CHANGE!!! The difference for me is that I want that change to be accompanied by my companion in life. I dated enough to know that - yeah, it could be a real ego booster and a varied amount of recreational and communicational moments that I might be missing now.....but that doesn't mean I can't make my own with H....does it?<P>Does this make any sense to you guys? I know that somewhere within my H he feels connected to me......he has said that in 10, 20 or 30 years he will want me to grow old with....he just needs to do this now!!! <P>I think it's pressure related....you know, the whole life and settled responsibilities of house, spouse, bills, etc. The regularity of it all.<P>Do you think I have anything with this thinking or am I totally off base - not looking for specifics for my H - just thoughts for general discussion with you who's shoes I have not walked in.<P>Any insight....either from or to me?<P>Thanks,<P>Hugs and I hope that you are led to what you seek!!<P>Sheba

Sheba,<P>For me, I was betrayed. I just think that perhaps when honesty returns that the passion can come back. <P>I feel like I am feeling very raw emotions after sex. The sex is wonderful, it is always wonderful, and it doesn't matter how much more exciting that can be. It is the raw emotional feeling afterwards that I feel such a sadness for - That part of the passion, the oneness. I feel like I have just had sex with every thought in his head after we have sex. It just hurts my feelings.<P>Otherwise, everything feels normal.

Hi everyone,<BR> As someone else said this is a pretty discouraging thread....but I'm glad everyone is being honest. My question is "why did you all marry if you weren't passionately in love?"Was it just friendship? <BR>It's strange , but my H said that he never felt those feelings for me but I KNOW in fact that he did...I was there. In fact he was more passionate than me and pusued me....we were definitely head over heels. In our case, the history has been "rewritten" . (I'm not saying that's anyone's else's case just ours).....Lu

Hello everyone...<P>I'm different because my H and I married after meeting six to seven WEEKS before... yup, folks, it was a blind date and we ran off around seven weeks later and tied the knot!<P>I was passionately in love for seven years, and when he cheated I thought I'd lost it. Nope ... back it came and same for him (ask him, I don't lie). I felt passionately until about two years ago, and totally hopeless last year as I neared my 40th birthday. Mid-life crisis and I did the unthinkable - I then cheated.<P>Now, I am very slowly finding the love that was lost. Every so often I get that surge of electrcity when I look at him. He is SO gorgeous, always has been. He's having a harder time loving me the way he'd like, but the love is still there on both sides. <P>I say it IS POSSIBLE to find that love again. Getting over the OM was tough, honestly, but it has happened. Luckily the OM did something very selfish last week that opened my eyes for the last and final time. I suddenly realized that I DON'T WANT HIM no matter what happens with my H. And I'm hoping that my H and I grow old and grey(er) together <P>------------------<BR>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<BR>

Sheba,<P>I've thought about that, and I truly don't believe it's wanderlust for me. Heck, I want the kind of long lasting "grow-old-with-you" kind of relationship! It was never about the "fun-of-the-chase" for me. In fact, getting into an affair was the last thing I wanted to do, and I was depressed all the way through it, cuz I knew I would most likely end up with a broken heart.<P>Lu -- I've thought about your suggestion too. Could it be that I just don't remember correctly? But no. I remember how I felt back then... Check out my thread "to hurtingwife"... It pretty much describes my life story... <P>--andy<p>[This message has been edited by airheart (edited September 29, 1999).]

WOW, I appreciate all the honesty you are all talking about regarding feelings. I really am starting to feel that way about my potential for recovery in my marriage. Airheart, maybe Maya, I think it is hard to even get that passion those feelings back with your spouse if they were not there in the beginning. My wife is telling me that, and I actually remember that feeling (of not getting that passion towards me). My only question now is if the feelings one has towards an affairee are actually more intense because of the ?illicitness, deceit, forbideen?, type of situation that breeds those feelings. You know it's possible some people seek that type of rush, or when they find it can't forget what it felt like. I have never gone skydiving, but they say that it is a rush to experience. I personally am too scared to try that. So those type of intense emotions probably have no place in a marriage. So what to do? I guess your spouses have to decide if how you feel will be enough for them (personally, I don't think I want my wife back based on this discussion) and you have to decide if you can live 'comfortably' and be reasonably happily married. Does that make sense? I noticed a couple of betrayed people do remember that passion in the beginning, and again I say it appears to be important to a marriage. "Private Lies" by Pittman, talks about that passion that leads to married love. I feel sad and bad for airheart and Maya trying to feel emotions that may have never really been there before. Maya, if it has been a year, I am not sure if you have gone to counseling? Has a therapist said anything about how to deal with that realization. I hate divorce (especially with kids) but we all owe ourselves happiness and our spouses deserve to be "first" and not second best. At least that's the way I am feeling today, even though I don't believe the OM for my wife is her true love either. They say affairs teach you something about your marriage and there are times it says, "Well, you both need to be available for true love to find you" since the first time either one married for the wrong reasons. Mine married for the type of spouse potential I was, but did not include the passionate love aspect.

Hi again,<BR> I know this is crazy (YES, I do believe I'm crazy!) but I was wondering if those who don't feel anything for their spouse would be jealous if someone else wanted them or maybe if THEIR SPOUSE had the affair? I've felt such jealousy and love for my H in a way I hadn't for such a long time because I almost lost him to someone else ...but he knows I've always been here for him . Does this make sense.? I know this sounds crazy but it's like in High school when what you can't have you want and what you have is "ho hum"..I remember a post awhile back and I think it was from Maya where someone she knew came back to the marriage as the other person was moving on and starting to date..Just rambling and definitely not coming up with solutions!!! Lu

By god Andy, are you sure your name isn't ------ ? I wish you could talk to my H. He is struggling so hard as he feels no-one understands where he is. See, you describe all the things he says. He is so sad that I have told him I can't be friends with him if he leaves and never comes back, because of my feelings for him, it would destroy me everytime I saw him. He feels sad, because we are friends, and he would miss that. But, the more counselling he has (individually), the more he seems to realise that he has just never had that connection with me. He feels it with so many other women.... not just the "in-love" feeling he has had for his 2 most special ones, but a feeling like they come from the same place, an understanding and appreciation of life in the same way..... something that he has never felt with me. When he is with them, he feels nothing missing, nothing that makes him want to be with someone else, because they connect with the real him. We were married quite young, and I was the only one he had ever felt really close to then, but over time, when he got to know others, even in a friendly sort of way, he realised that we were completely different people .... neither one better or worse than the other, just different, and that he wanted a relationship for life with someone who he connected to in the first instance, not just romantic love. He has spent years being frustrated with me over so many things, I have been so confused about his responses, and tried to change, but it seems to be our fundamental differences that are at the root of all the anger, frustration and his need to seek out emotional support elsewhere. Not that I couldn't give it, but just that he needed it in a way that was just right for him, and my way just wasn't. But that my way probably was for someone else.<P>His big mistake was pretending to me for so many years that everything was ok, and whenever things weren't, not identifying the real reasons behind his frustrations. He continued to lie to me, not just about the OW and what they made him feel, but about his lack of feeling connected to me in some intrinsic way. He continued to perpetrate the myth that he loved me and his life with me, by writing and saying beautiful things, but underneath, was so sad, depressed and crying out in pain because we seemed to be struggling to meet each other, and missing. I therefore continued to love him, and still do, and the pain for me now is unbearable. I could go on and on.....but guess people here don't want to hear all this.<P>Because of all this, even though his relationship with the OW is a deadend, they are still kind of emotionally involved, I guess she just understands where he is at..... he knows that although he want her, if she is not avaliable, there is probably someone else much more right for him than me out there somewhere. And that the daily struggle in life with me was not worth staying.<P>This just hurts me so badly, but I have to try somehow to accept this, I guess. My anger comes from him letting me believe all these years that he really truly loved me, then finding my life rewritten over the past 6 months, with revelations about other women, missing feelings, things said that weren't mean't etc. He never told me the truth about his feelings, although I see now so many things were a cry for me to somehow understand, without him having to identify and explain. He is a good and loving man, with so much to give, I just want him to share it with me, but, like he has decided - I'm a really nice person, but maybe just not right for him. The trouble is, I gave all my love to him, as I think he is a fabulous person, and don't know how to stop that after so many years. Andy, I would love to talk to you some more, but have taken too much space already. emailing you would probably make your wife feel too uncomfortable I guess? even if she read everything? let me know .....I will be away for a few days, but back after the weekend. Sometimes I feel like maybe I might be able to understand all this, coming from you, because often we can't see things which are right in front of us, because they cause us too much pain to confront. <BR>I just really want to understand all this, and reading this thread, my H could have written it instead of you. <P>Ps -I read your thread to hurting wife, and there was not one thing that you said, that I haven't heard from my H recently. He feels so bad for hurting me, for denying me the chance to be with someone who really loves me ........ I am so confused, and hurting so badly about all this .... just trying to understand...... I know an affair was probably the last thing he wanted, he is a wonderful man, gentle and kind .... life is so sad and confusing....<p>[This message has been edited by sosad (edited September 29, 1999).]