Well, discussions I've been having on other threads has prompted me to write and talk about something...<P>I've been struggling daily with the fact that I'm not in love with my wife. We're making great progress in our relationship. I'm able to open up about my feelings, and we have much better communication. We enjoy our time together. We have great sex now. Love units should be pouring in right? So how come I don't actually feel love? How come I don't have that emotional bond that I so desperately want?? How the hell long is this gonna take?<P>Monday night, I wept in my wife's arms because of the depression and frustration of it all. This truly sucks! I want to feel something more for my wife than just really good friendship. I want to KNOW that she's the right one to spend the rest of my life with. I know I have to give it more time. It's only been perhaps four months or so since it was broken off with the OW. But when do you say "This will never happen for me?" Is it possible that maybe my wife just isn't the one? Do you all think that fulfilling emotional needs is all it takes? Or is there something more? Something intangible?<P>I have no idea. I'm still hoping. I still haven't given up. But I'm very bleak about my prospects right now... <sigh><P>--andy

andy<BR>You have been working so hard at this. Could you be trying too hard?<BR>Is there any way that you can relax a little and let things flow.<BR>One of the biggest hurdles is seeing what we do feel and mot what we don't.<BR>Sometimes the process is so slow that we don't notice the progress.<BR>Have you ever tried writing down every little time that you feel happiness when with your wife? I did this and do those baby steps ever stick out when you take the time to notice them.<BR>I am so sorry you're having such a tough time. Be a little easy on yourself.<BR>Remember:<BR>"Happiness is wanting what we have not having what we want."<BR>Try to lower the expectations for a while and bask in the good things - no matter how little.<BR>

Andy,<P>I feel pain in your post and I read in another post about you weeping in your wife's arms. I am so sorry the two of you are going through this pain. It is intense as many of us know.<P>My husband too is having a hard time with the loving me correctly thing. So far he is not swept off his feet by that emotion by any means. But, and this is a big but, we are getting closer all the time. He is realizing what mature love is about. About love being a choice. That the newness of love is something that comes around once a relationship. (Remember what Harley & many other authors say about it!)<P>He is now here not just for our daughter but because he loves me too. Seven months ago he couldn't say that. Every day gets better although we do have our bad days. Like yesterday. He still uses substances to escape a bit in my opinion. I am leaving all that up to God.<P>Keep praying for those feelings. They will come. Keep praying also for God to destroy your feelings for the OW. Not until you feel nothing for her will you be able to feel that way for your wife.<P>That is my opinion anyway. My husband doesn't say that prayer often enough in my way of thinking but, he has said it.<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

It's not gonna be, "BOOM! I'm totally in love again." Give it time. With both of you showing love and caring for each other, it'lll come back slowly but surly.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

Andy,<BR>What do you want to happen to you? Do you want to feel like you did when you first met your wife? Do you want fireworks to go off? All that would be great, but we are in a different stage of life now. I know that my H loves differently then I do. Once he questioned the way he acted and felt because I am totally different, so over board, so visual, sometimes I even think smothering. When I asked him if I was too much for him, he said, "No, I can handle it" LOL. When he thought he might loose me because of what he had done, he found that he loved me just as much, only showed it differently, and that's OK! He then quit questioning himself. I think you are having withdrawl from your bad brain period, you are confussed about feelings that you have never had before, You seem to be getting it on with your wife, I don't think you would be as loving as you say if you weren't in Love. Course, I may be wrong, I have trouble understanding men, I am in a love mood myself because my marriage is new, different, stronger, and I am so happy. If you convey to your wife that you are having these feelings it will work on her mind and she will have a hard time helping you to get through this period. It would be better to relax, let the feelings grow, know that you decided to stay with her, picture the future with her, how she has taken care of you and what is down the raod that only you and your W will be able to get through together.<BR>Almost <P>----------<BR>TIME <BR>

double post!<p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 29, 1999).]

Hi Andy. I hear ya, man. I'm in the same boat. I'm so ashamed of it too. This man has loved me thru something that stripped him of his ego, pride, self-worth ... and who knows WHAT else.<P>I give nothing back. I'm there physically, holding the family as one unit ... but I don't WANT to spend time with him, don't WANT to be intimate with him, don't WANT to talk to him about anything.<P>We never HAD a friendship, so I don't even feel that for him. I'm existing in the marriage because God wants me here, because I don't want to rock my kids' worlds .... everyday I dream of being alone.<P>I ponder aloud if it's truly because I haven't forgiven myself for this horrible thing I did. If i don't like myself, how can I allow anyone else to like me?<P>But that doesn't explain the relationship I had with the OM .... I couldn't believe I was in the middle of an affair that I knew was wrong .... but our friendship, our emotional connection was intense ... like nothing I've experienced.<P>I, like you, long for that with my H ... but haven't a CLUE how to get there from here.<P>I agree .... HOW LONG? A lifetime? I cry at the thought that 20 years from now I could very possibly be just as I am now. Existing. I married him for better or worse. I screwed up badly last year, and I don't plan on doing that again. But I feel like I'm dying in the marriage.<P>

Andy, those feelings that you miss deeply are something that I miss too. The relationship has changed for us. That passion and intimacy are not natural feelings for us any more. I guess I am learning to accept that. I know my husband hasn't been meeting ALL of my emotional needs, and hasn't even been willing to do so, but I think even if he was that the certain magic we had won't be there.<P>I think I am very angry with him about this, as well. He says it is all in my head, because he "never cheated". Regardless, something is missing - and I want it back!!!<P>But the self discovery I have experienced and the new love and respect that I have found for myself - is something that isn't dependent upon our relationship, isn't dependent on whether he is faithful or not, isn't dependent on anyone but me. This - no one can steal, no one can destroy, no one can take away from me. It is a new emotion, a self love that takes the place of the magic that my husband and I once shared.<P>I think I may have more grieving to do? Or something, because when we have sex, afterwards I feel so emotionally raw. I'm pretty good at controlling my emotions until that point. Then I have to start teaching myself how to control this also. It is hard. It isn't fair. Life isn't fair, it is what we do with the hand we are dealt.<P>This passion or magic is not to be confused for the "in love" feeling I feel for my husband. Sometimes my eyes and my smile drips with adoration for my husband. The feeling that I have for my husband isn't the same. It is a different feeling now.<P>Love is an action, and not a feeling. So, I love my husband. But the feelings for him come and go. The magic isn't there, and I miss it terribly.<P>

I bet if you went around and asked everyone in your office if they feel "in love" with their spouse they would say no...unless they were lying to you. I think because of the things that we've all been through lately we question everything.<P>I ask my husband all the time if he feels in love with me and he admits he loves me, but those feelings only happen at the beginning. The difference between my husband and I is that he can accept that whereas I don't want to. My head understands this concept...it's just tough convincing my heart.<P>I read somewhere that everytime you get even an incling (sp?) of love feelings for your spouse that you should tell them. I was looking at my husband the other day load plants into our truck and I thought he looked really hot...I told him. Even though this was just a fleeting thought...it kind of confirmed to me that every once in a while I could get a momintary feeling for him...even though those feelings are far and few between.<P>I don't know if there is something more out there. I think you really have to look back at why you married your wife in the first place...there has to be some good reason, some feeling that was there for her. <P>You said that when you were first married you never used to analyze yourself so much (in so many words). Were you happy with your wife then? Maybe you could stop analyzing everything so much and figure out if she can make you happy even if you don't get those "feelings" Because they won't last forever with anyone.

It's not like I want that "in-love" fireworks feeling (it would be nice, but I'm not looking for that). I'd be happy to feel that "mature" love! I want to feel that. Hell, I want to feel anything! Something! Something besides the good-friendship feeling I have now.<P>Even in a mature love there are certain things you feel for a person, right? You feel glad they're around. You miss them when they are gone. You feel that twinge of jealousy (however minor) if someone flirts with them... I don't have those feelings with my wife.<P>I never had that big explosive love for my wife when we were first dating. Shouldn't there be something to start with?? (btw, if you want more details about my life, read my thread "to hurtingwife", we've been discussing this stuff). <P>Like Maya, I am terrified that in 20 years I'll still feel the very same way. For the rest of my life I'll have to completely avoid having friendships with women because I could potentially fall in love with them. That ain't right!!<P>Last night my wife and I made love, and it was good, but afterwards I felt bad. I felt bad because she seemed so content and loving... arrgh!!<P>--andy

Airheart and Maya, (and others) I may be getting ready for a stoning but.... Based on the many books I have read now about affairs and relationships, I truly believe the "in-love feeling" is mostly infatuation that most couples experience when they first meet. It's the chemistry/spark and attraction when you first are getting to know someone new and experience them physically and companionship wise in life. In my analogy, I think of it as when we get something material that is new (like kids with toys). There is always that initial rush/excitement when we get new furniture, house, electronics, etc... But over time that fades and we settle into a comfort zone of still liking that item or we no longer need it. Relationships that lead to marriage have moved from that passionate infatuation stage into mature/married love usually sometime after the marriage (within 2 yrs) or before the marriage, but the partners still have all those memories. In the book "To Love and Be Loved" by Sam Keen, he states memories and past history is one of the elements of true love you establish with someone. I don't know if either one of you had that type of passion for your spouses in the beginning. True love and the type of love that will sustain a a marriage is different than that "in-love infatuation". I am starting to believe though that a couple has to have that in their past. There is that underlying passion that is still there that will come up when for instance there has been many love units deposited or situations have led a couple to tap into that again. But the fact that as married couples we all have to deal with life (work, kids, money, other responsibilities) it makes it difficult to always feel that passion. Love is a verb, it is behavior driven and not just a feeling. Again this is based on my reading and my opinions. I unfortunately am dealing with my wife not having felt that passion in our courtship towards me...and that is what she is basing her decision to not work on our marriage on. I call it the 7-UP feeling, (never had it never will). I told her early in her affair that we could work on our marriage and cultivate a form of love/passion based on emotional needs, but that it would not compare to the feelings for the OM. <BR>I think we all have to accept that those infatuation feelings will always be stronger more intense than what we had in our marriage (I think that's natural/nature). That relationship has none of the built up issues our marriages have, they can talk about everything that married couples have already done before. The affair couples have many things to learn and experience with each other, though I still think it will crash once the passion is reduced and reality of what their affair has done to others (lies, deceit, dishonesty, pain) pressures them to work on their relationship which is usually not based on more than that passion. Well any thoughts .... I think you guys have to give yourself more time to not have those feelings for the OP. The withdrawal phase sucks for all involved and I have been told it is at least 6 months, if there was any amount of intense emotional attachment. It will start to fade, then you guys have to decide to work on marriage, understanding that high of affair is not what marriage is about, or be free to experience those highs with others though that too will fade and you can repeat the marriage thing or seek more highs.

Heard a couple of really good things this week. They stuck with me, as I'm going through the same thing as you, Andy. <BR> <P>1) Right actions produce right feelings. <BR> <BR> I take that to mean that if I act as though I love him, I will eventually FEEL love for him.<P>2) We fall in love with the thing that we focus the most on. <P> I think I believe that one. ALL my focus was on the OM. Even now, while I'm supposed to be building this marriage, I find myself still thinking about him. <P>I used to think this was a battle of my heart, but now I think it's a battle of the will and the mind.<P>I do see slow progress but sure do wish I could experience the spark that made that affair so damned appealing.

Well, it's been more than 6 months for ME ... it's been over a year. The intenseness of the withdrawal has faded, but at times (like today) it's overpowering again.<P>I know ... just hang on. Well, I'm hanging alright .... like you, airheart, I just wanna FEEL something .... desire to be with him, desire, to make love to him, desire to communicate with him, desire to spend time with him.<P>Yeah, airheart, my H seemed very content too. That's painful for me ... because in effect he has gotten what he wanted. He wanted me to stay and be his wife, and here I am. Sure he's happy now. And I'm all closed up, not communicating, suffering in silence because I can't stand the thought of hurting him any more.<P>I don't wanna tell him that I STILL miss the OM and his friendship. ([censored] that he is) <BR>And so I just exist. No it's not the right attitude, and I'm suppose to be DOING something about this .... but I cannot figure out WHAT to do.<BR>

maya, interested in your opinion if you think your husband has changed since the affair or changed your environment that led to your affair? I know you have said he has been great and stood by you, but I am not sure if you feel he has met your needs or maybe you are not letting him meet those needs. (I read your thread about you having issues ) I also understand your affair did not die naturally and did not last long? Is it possible the big what if? is rearing it's head? Maybe since you did not get to experience it longer or did not get some closure? I think you chose to give it up to work on your marriage? You answered one of my threads about exposing the affair, being the pressure that led you to stop. Food for thought.

<P>** if you think your husband has changed since the affair or changed your environment that led to your affair?<P>His attitude has changed emensely, but I see him falling back into "habits" now that he's comfortable in the marriage again. I can't expect him to do handstands for me the rest of his life -- especially when he's getting nothing in return, except having his wife there.<P><BR>** I know you have said he has been great and stood by you, but I am not sure if you feel he has met your needs or maybe you are not letting him meet those needs. <P>No, there is still something missing, which is why I still mourn the loss of OM ... he filled those needs completely. Maybe I am unwilling to let H fill those needs. He never has, and I don't feel like he ever CAN. They are two different men with two different approaches to women.<P>** I also understand your affair did not die naturally and did not last long? Is it possible the big what if? is rearing it's head?<P>Not sure what you mean about rearing it's head again. The OM is in another state now and has been thru a couple more women -- all while still being legally married (they are in the process of divorcing) There's no chance that he'll come back for me since I "made" my choice.<P>**Maybe since you did not get to experience it longer or did not get some closure? I think you chose to give it up to work on your marriage? <P>No, I didn't give it up to work on my marriage. I felt my marriage was irrepairable. I stayed because I felt God wanted me to.<P>**You answered one of my threads about exposing the affair, being the pressure that led you to stop.<P>The pressure from my friends I felt was God assisting in showing me what HE had in mind. I'm very concerned about what others feel, and I foolishly listened to my "righteous" friends that said possibly I wasn't even SAVED if I was choosing the route of divorce. (some friends, huh?)<P><p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited September 29, 1999).]

Andy,<P>When I made my first post to marriage builders, it was a cry for help because I felt the same way you do now. I had ended my affair and gotten away from OM (everything I was supposed to do), yet a year later- still no feelings for my H. I stayed for my children. <P>In that first post, I admitted that something huge was missing in my marriage, and that I was afraid of my friendships with other men, for fear I could so easily fall in love with someone else. Of course, I was trashed all over the place for admitting that. But it was honest. <P>It's been a little more than a year for me since I've seen OM and I still miss him on some days- and some days I don't think of him at all. I try every day to look for things in H to get back some feelings besides 'loving him like a brother'. Sometimes its there, but for the most part, I have to act. I have a hard time kissing him still, and I hate that about myself. We just don't have the same emotional bond that I had with OM, and once you've had it with someone, you don't want to settle for anything less. Since H and I were never emotionally intimate with each other, I was bowled over by the feelings I had with OM. I dream of having this type of relationship with H, but I've come to believe that not everyone is capable of that. I could be wrong, I don't know. I think it's awfully lonely to be in this type of marriage, and that's why I comb these pages every day... searching for the answer, some light at the end of the tunnel. <P>I hope no one gets upset about this post, I am just trying to be honest.<P> tamis<BR>

Thanks, Tamis. You said my feelings over and over and over and over.<P>**I have a hard time kissing him still, and I hate that about myself. We just don't have the same emotional bond that I had with OM, and once you've had it with someone, you don't want to settle for anything less. Since H and I were never emotionally intimate with each other, I was bowled over by the feelings I had with OM. I dream of having this type of relationship with H, but I've come to believe that not everyone is capable of that. I could be wrong, I don't know. I think it's awfully lonely to be in this type of marriage....**<P>You expressed what I've been trying to say. It's very lonely.<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited September 29, 1999).]

maya,<P>For a whole year, I walked around thinking I was the only person who had ever been through this. My OM was from my job, and after everything came out to our spouses, OM's wife made sure everyone at work knew. I felt like I had a scarlett letter on my forehead, with all of the stares and gossip. For some reason, most people didn't think less of OM- they painted me as the pursuer. I was even told by one co-worker that of course ANY man would not be able to say no to a woman waving her crotch in his face. AS IF that is how it went. Anyway, having all of these people know what happened made me feel so alone and ashamed. BUT, now that I have found this place, and found people who have felt all of these same feelings, I'm actually picking my ego and self-esteem off of the floor. I'm not alone, I'm not the only one, and its so wonderful to realize that. Thanks to you too, as I always identify with what you are going through.<BR> tamis<BR>

Tamis, can we e-mail?<BR>

Sorina,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>1) Right actions produce right feelings. <P>I take that to mean that if I act as though I love him, I will eventually FEEL love for him.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can't quite make myself believe that's true. That means, then, that if I fake it with anyone, that I'll eventually fall in love with them... No. There has to be something deeper. Something there at the very beginning that connects you. You can't just fall in love with any ole person that comes around...<P>Again, let me stress that I fully realize that the "in-love" feeling is only around for so long, then it turns into a mature love. Hey, I'm cool with that really! But what if (big IF here) you never had that "in-love" feeling to begin with?!? Is it still possible?<P>Maya, you are right. It can be so lonely.<P>--andy<P>