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threadjack ... apologies to Dear Dorry

Schnarch's book is a difficult & rewarding journey into an area of relationships that is unusual

that our marriage difficulties are normal



here's a link to PM

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805058265/104-2026612-1285547?v=glance&n=283155

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{{{Pep}}}...

I'm so glad you are here at MB...thank you for all that you do...

I don't think that you were "threadjacking"...I'm pretty sure that dorry would agree...this thread is definitely about learning and growing where our marriages are concerned...You are welcome anytime...I love learning from you!!!

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Actually, Pep, if you get a chance, could you take a look at this thread posted by lemonman Friday night, and take a stab at answering the question that I asked there? The thread may give you a few chuckles if you haven't already read it, but I asked a serious ? there, and it was late, so the thread just kinda died...

Thanks,

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Thanks Dorry for starting this thread and thanks for the other gals telling us BS's how you felt then and now. I know that everyone suffers as a result of affairs, even the OP. We are all scarred and the affairs have changed us all forever and maybe we have all learned from what we all went through.

No more comments from me, but I will continue to read all the WS's thoughts on this thread.

TooSoon


Married 20 yrs at time of affair DD: 1/16/04 NC: Since 4/14/04 FWW: Workplace EA for 8+ months. MC: For Awhile Recovery Begins When All Contact Ends. Progress: Doing very well.
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Another vote for Schnarch's book.

Yes, 'emotionally fused' is not a good thing, but it can look and feel like closeness to the participants.

PM is not the easiest read, but well, well worth the effort.

TA


"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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LOL threadjacking is okay.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
dorry #1558635 01/15/06 09:56 PM
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bump

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Ms. W said:
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I still struggle with the internal question of IF my EN's AND my H's EN's would have been being met at the time, would I have ever gotten to that jumping off point in the first place(I do get that the decision to JUMP was my own)?


I think this is a great question for us FWS...it seems to go to the origin and scope of the missing ENs.

A subset of this question is: did the A address something missing in the M--or a need missing in the FWS altogether....

And if the needs being demanded in the M were healthy in the first place....take, for example, the need for admiration. Is the person's need unhealthy? (Asking spouse to compensate for personal insecurities--as opposed to general verbal acknowledgement of appreciation and love).

Also, was the need CREATED by the M? (Take a simple example, a person who didn't particularly need Dom. Supp. but lives with a real slob or work aholic--a situation that creates more of a need).

DISCLAIMER FOR YOU BSs: This inquiry only goes to the ORIGIN of the missing need---and not--as Mrs. W also aknowledged---somehow to explain a REASON for the A (which we all know was the result of FWS CHOICE of coping strategies). Whew!

I don't know about you other FWS, but awhile back when I was asking myself all of these type of questions, it really helped me to understand what created my emotional state, thus ripening me, for the disasterous decision making that followed.


Another question entirely : Just curious, do any other FWS feel like this whole situation not only changed you personally (obvious, right), but actually changed what you NEEDED from the M? Or are your needs the same as before?

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Good morning ladies,

As a FWW I just wanted to say hi to all of you and thank Dorry for starting this thread! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I think all you FWW’s are doing a great job in your efforts to overcome the past and by moving forward in you personal and marital recoveries and of course a thread like this can provide additional encouragement and support. It’s also normal to go through ‘setbacks’ and feelings of discouragement from time to time. Just sharing experiences and expressing feelings can be helpful as well and assist one in doing some more introspection and soul-searching.

I want to share something with your ladies today (I’ve posted it on these boards before) which is still of great sentiment and value to me about life in general. This ‘reading’ was also helpful and served as a regular reminder to me especially during early recovery while I was still in the cycle of having very negative thoughts & feelings about myself and during the times I was trying to make sense and find 'meaning' & purpose out of my wrong choices and negative experiences of the past:

[color:"blue"] ~SOMETIMES~

Sometimes people come into your life
and you know right away that they were meant to be there -
to serve some sort of purpose, teach you a lesson,
or to help you figure out who you are or who you want to become.

You never know who these people may be –
(possibly your roommate, neighbor, professor,
long lost friend, lover, or even a complete stranger),
but when you lock eyes with them,
you know at that very moment
they will affect your life in some profound way.

People come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime…
When you figure out which one it is,
you will know what to do for each person:

When someone is in your life for a REASON -
It is usually to meet a need you have expressed.
They have come to assist you through a difficulty,
to provide you with guidance and support,
and/or to aid you physically, emotionally, or spiritually.
They may seem like a godsend, and they are!
They are there for the reason you need them to be.
Then, without any wrongdoing on your part,
or at an inconvenient time,
this person will say or do something
to bring the relationship to an end.
Sometimes they die.
Sometimes they walk away.
Sometimes they act up and force you to take a stand.
What we must realize is that our need has been met,
our desire fulfilled, their work is done.
The prayer you sent up has been answered.
And now it is time to move on.

Then people come into your life for a SEASON -
Because your turn has come to share, grow, or learn.
They bring you an experience of peace, or make you laugh.
They may teach you something you have never done.
They usually give you an unbelievable amount of joy.
Believe it! It is real! But, only for a season…

LIFETIME relationships teach you lifetime lessons:
things you must build upon
in order to have a solid emotional foundation.
Your job is to accept the lesson, love the person,
and put what you have learned to use
in all other relationships and areas of your life.

The people you meet who affect your life,
and the success and downfalls you experience,
help to create who you are and who you become.
Even the bad experiences can be learned from.
In fact, they are probably the most poignant and important ones.

Sometimes things happen to you that may seem horrible,
painful, and unfair at first, but in reflection
you find that without overcoming those obstacles
you would have never realized your potential,
strength, willpower, or heart.


Everything happens for a reason.
Nothing happens by chance or by means of good luck.
Illness, injury, love, lost moments of true greatness,
and sheer stupidity all occur to test the limits of your soul.
Without these small tests, whatever they may be,
life would be like a smoothly paved, straight, flat road to nowhere.
It would be safe and comfortable, but dull and utterly pointless.
Life is an unceasing process of change.

The Bible say: "To everything there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the sun.
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant,
and a time to pluck up that which is planted..."

And just as the seeds of the poppy fall back to the earth,
only to flourish yet again, so too,
will the proverbial circle of life touch our own existence.
Hardships may indeed befall us,
but the ebb and flow of life energy prods us to survive.


Whether we are experiencing the death of a loved one,
an ended relationship, or grief for the past,
as incomprehensible as it may seem, life does go on.
Troubling circumstances and heart-wrenching situations
may inwardly tear at our heart and cause us to feel like crumbling,
but let us not forget that even in cemeteries grow flowers, grass and trees.


Death, be it in the loss of friend or loved one,
or mourning for a relationship or friendship failed,
indeed has its sting, but as long as Christ promises us hope,
life shall not cease. God's grace is as a healing hand.

As does the sweet scent of the poppy linger in the air,
the warm memories and love for those we have lost
will remain always safe in our hearts.

If someone hurts you, betrays you, or breaks your heart,
forgive them - for they have helped you learn about trust
and the importance of being cautious to when you open your heart.
If someone loves you, love them back unconditionally,
not only because they love you, but because in a way,
they are teaching you to love and how to open your heart and eyes to things.
Make every day count.

Appreciate every moment and take from those moments
everything that you possibly can
for you may never be able to experience it again.
Talk to people that you have never talked to before,
and actually listen.
Let yourself fall in love, break free, and set your sights high.
Hold your head up because you have every right to.
Tell yourself you are a great individual
and believe in yourself,
for if you don't believe in yourself,
it will be hard for others to believe in you.

You can make of your life anything you wish.

Create your own life and then go out
and live it with absolutely no regrets.
Life is about living, and that is why God offered us His Son,
so that we may have eternal life.
A life without Christ will rob one of salvation,
but with Him, all things are possible!
[/color]

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Hello fellow FWW,

I drafted a very long post the day this thread was opened and when I posted it all crashed and I lost it. I had to go out so I gave up...that's probably not such a good idea as I need support so I'm back!

I'm 16 months into proper recovery after NC was finally established. My 4 month EA/PA was in Summer 04 and we really took recovering our marriage on board. I found MB a week after NC and I absorbed this board, it's articles and books about affairs. I cried reading the pain of BS knowing that I'd caused that in my husband. I can honestly say I did not realise the devastation I had caused.

We spent 15 hours together, talked, rediscovered each other. My husband isn't keen on following "rules" so I've been introducing the MB priniciples carefully. He apparently read lots of info about affairs whilst I was in one but immediately after NC he left it to me to learn about what I had done and then talk to him about what I had learned.

Then recovery became sidetracked by a legal situation with my husband's family Feb 05. My MIL has been robbed of everything by my BIL, SIL and a solicitor amongst others. It's a serious situation and with a lot of IL history, conflict avoidance, attached which has caused problems in our marriage/relationship from day one. It has helped to put those issues behind us and we are presenting a united front which fills up my Love Bank like you wouldn't believe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

However, it's been nearly a year focused on this and I know it will be at least another year before it's sorted and I've been aware of our relationship slipping. Our relationship should be top priority but we now haven't managed our 15 hours together for a number of months. We are together a lot but focused and totally immersed in legal stuff.

To tie in nicely with Pepper's mention of A Passionate Marriage I have bought this as a present for our 11th Anniversary this coming Saturday (21st). I was drawn to this book when I saw a synopsis explaining about fully being in the moment with your partner, eyes open and connecting...that's what I've been missing/needing and he agreed in 2004 but we've not managed to move towards that ourselves. Now reading Pepper's view that it is not an easy book to work through, difficult at times, scares me but I'm about ready to get out of this rut we're currently in before it slips to where we were pre-A.

Counselling in the UK is not particularly good and hubby is reticent after trying RELATE - they were pretty awful. I had some IC which helped me immensely. I have found IMAGO therapy over here and would like to try a weekend. My husband will take some persuading but from what I understand it gives you some great tools and really gets you communicating. I think we've done exceptionally well by ourselves so far but I think MC in some form is in order.

Ahuman said:

Quote
Another question entirely : Just curious, do any other FWS feel like this whole situation not only changed you personally (obvious, right), but actually changed what you NEEDED from the M? Or are your needs the same as before?


I never realised what my needs were before. They were met by OM without me realising what was happening (conversation, admiration, affection)..it's only through my soul searching that I saw what it was I needed before but wasn't emotionally grown up enough to recognise my needs nor ask for them to be met.

My need for a deeper connection/intimacy with my husband is a new one.

Thank you for opening this thread ladies <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Suzet your Sometimes was just what I needed to read today...thank you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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My pleasure SF - glad you've found it helpful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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never realised what my needs were before. They were met by OM without me realising what was happening (conversation, admiration, affection)..it's only through my soul searching that I saw what it was I needed before but wasn't emotionally grown up enough to recognise my needs nor ask for them to be met.
SF, my sit was very close to this though I DID recognize these needs but my H really did not know how to meet them. Many years of looking back and I can NOW see what he was trying to do was meet my needs in the only way he knew how. Unfortunately XOM was very good at meeting my missing ENs. It is not like my H has learned how to meet these needs but I learned how to get them met in other ways in Godly relationships with other women and from God himself. Not that I don't still want those things from my WH but I have learned to make do in life. Does that make sense?


Faith

me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Quote
Another question entirely : Just curious, do any other FWS feel like this whole situation not only changed you personally (obvious, right), but actually changed what you NEEDED from the M? Or are your needs the same as before?

Funny you should say that...as I feel that way. My needs aren't the same as I have learned that only when both people want to do a MB effort MAY your needs possibly be met all the time. In most cases your needs are NOT going to be met at all times. I do know my affair wasn't due to needs not being met - but with self coping with problems in life and my perception of the world around me...For me I had to change those self coping skills...

While OM did meet needs that H wasn't at the time (admiration, sympathy, conversation) and it was giving me a high - it wasn't the REAL root of my affair. The real root was that it was escape behavior - self destructive. If it wasn't OM, it would be drugs, alcohol, something self destructive to allow me to escape feelings and feel better. I had lost my uterus, I had a husband who's business was failing and he didn't want me involved...and was so involved in it, he couldn't care less that they took my uterus...I was no longer feeling like a wife and a woman...I became lost...started to convince myself H didn't love me...started to act almost single - getting men's attention to feel more sexy and woman like...then met a married man who made me feel wife like - commented on my mothering, homemaking, etc.

I think the BIGGEST mistake many FWW do (not most of you ladies - but others I see) is to just read SAA and then chalk it up to needs not being met...cause in reality there will be ups and downs when your needs aren't being met. It's why in my recovery guide I challenge FWW's to look deeper.

My needs have changed indeed...but at the same time, i have learned how to find ways to fullfill some of these needs on my own when H can't, so that during times when H is distant I dont fall into the same trap of resentment. My own personal self confidence is KEY in this...being assured that it isn't ME he is rejecting....I am getting there


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
dorry #1558643 01/16/06 11:25 AM
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I think Bramblerose has a good attitude on this.

I have heard her say time and time again - she is in a marriage where her needs are not met - but she is NOT unhappy. She has found ways to compensate and to look at the good side of the marriage.


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
dorry #1558644 01/16/06 11:37 AM
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Mrs. W .... I answered your Q on a new thread.

Pep

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I have been rolling this over in my mind and I think I finally realized: My needs have changed some, but mostly my need for those needs to be met has changed.

Throughout our recovery--for the past two years--many of my personal ENs have been sort of set aside to focus energy on meeting a greater need to heal the M and my BS, set a healthier foundation for our family and children,and find my own personal internal happiness that doesn't depend upon a happy M....this doesn't mean I don't need conversation or affection anymore...it just means not getting my fill feels less urgent or painful than it used to.

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My needs have changed some, but mostly my need for those needs to be met has changed.
Yes, exactly!


Faith

me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
dorry #1558647 01/16/06 11:41 AM
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I think the BIGGEST mistake many FWW do (not most of you ladies - but others I see) is to just read SAA and then chalk it up to needs not being met...cause in reality there will be ups and downs when your needs aren't being met. It's why in my recovery guide I challenge FWW's to look deeper.


THIS

is often my concern about these threads dedicated to the recovering wayward...

don't forget to MARRIAGE BUILD

spending too much time on the affair autopsy table ~~~> no good <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

thanks so much Dorry

You do good work ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

*kiss*

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Pep, what does I need the eggs mean?

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