Well, dammit. Tonight I'm angry. The kids were going out to dinner with WH tonight, but D18 neglected to tell me that WH was coming to pick them up, and I was completely unprepared! When he arrived, the kids were out in the acreage. He knocked on the door and called my name. I was in the other side of the house, but what to do? Ignore him? So I answered yeah, and he told me he had a package for me (ie. mail). From my end of the house, I told him to just leave it there. Then he asked if he could make his way through to the filing cabinet to pick up some of his stuff. I hesitated for so long that he called out, "Pardon? Did you say something?" So then I just asked him if I could just deliver the stuff to him another time. He agreed, but damn! I had to have this conversation with him after three weeks of total darkness, just because my daughter slipped up and I didn't have the chutzpah not to answer him because I didn't want to be rude.

This is, btw, the SECOND time he delivers something when he doesn't have to and puts it inside the front door, even though I told him not to come in uninvited by me. I guess he doesn't count the foyer as "inside"? Oyyy...

DAMN!

Hi RT,

...being in PLAN B myself....just thought I would let you know.... the odd slips like you describe will happen... don't be so hard on yourself...... it happened...
can't change it.... a little reminder to the kids... but don't be too hard on them.... nobody's perfect! The WHOLE situation is really hard on the kids....you know that.

...sounds to me you are doing PRETTTTY good!

As far as WS is concerned, Believer said it best.....PLAN B will take time... you're better off doing 'your thing'.... and whenever WS wants to 'discuss' anything other than finances and kids... remind him of PBL (....OW out of the picture?....)

...basically I see PLAN B as WS needing to 'check out' his fantasyland with OW..... with things like pride, wanting to be right, and fear of 'never will be forgiven' getting in the way.... don't hold your breath...it will not happen tomorrow, if ever!

...if and when, for starters OW is out of the picture, than you will see where you are at and what is WS prepared to do to recommitt to marriage.....

....in the meantime...being in PLAN B myself, I am trying to 'act' as if WS will NOT be back..... (although hoping to the contrary!)

You're making good use of the Board..... keep it up!

Thanks Lunamare, it's good to know these things happen. I was quite upset (although I didn't take it out on the kids) because of all the warnings to "stay dark" and basically everything starting from scratch every time there's contact.

Living as though WH isn't coming back, while hoping he is, is exactly what I'm trying to do. It's a tightrope, though!

Thanks for the pep talk, and best of luck to you.

I am so down, have been for a few days. I've been reading all these posts of heartbreak and progress and drama here, and I have absolutely nothing like that to report. Not that I want those things (other than the progress), but dammit it's HARD even without them. All I've got is this Plan B that's got me almost totally dark, and I'm MISSING MY H (not the WH) LIKE MAD, and I am sad, and despairing, and see no end to this.

I know the end will come, one way or another, I just can't see it right now. And even though intellectually I know things WILL change for the best, my heart is saying something different.

I guess it's just one of those days.

Sigh...

Plan B is very difficult at first, but it gets much easier, once you get the hang of it.

Things will get better, and Plan B will protect your feelings for him.

The hard thing about Plan B is that you can't see it working. You can go weeks and weeks without anything seeming to happen.

Aaaahhh but you see I thought I had the hang of it! It's been over a month now. Maybe I could do with less of this protection of my feelings for him! It'd be MUCH easier if the love was gone.

Thanks Believer, you're a champ.

Tam,

I agree with you ....... It would be so much easier.....

*sigh*

This is why "moving on" is such a tough thing for me. I have no problem with living my life, making plans, doing stuff, taking care of me and kids, etc., but my heart won't move on. My heart is stuck.

RT,

I just want to interject some cautionary advice for you; many will not agree with my POV, but my observations over the last couple of years lend credence to my opinion.

I found plan B to be a breath of fresh air as I no longer had to face my WW’s insensitive and cavalier attitude regarding the destruction of our family unit and my inability to influence the course of events. This forum was and is an incredible source of support and encouragement……but…….

Without a set time limit for plan B…..without a date on the calendar……this environment can be counterproductive for some. Let me explain.

If your WH doesn’t return in short order and you wait to feel better….to feel like “moving on” in a legal fashion i.e. divorce, you will achieve that in short order. No one will fault you for deciding to do so as it is the BS prerogative. If you subscribe to the theory, however, that feelings are transient, that love is a choice and apparently “dead” feelings can become loving feelings following loving actions……you may want to go by the set date method.

I gave myself one year from the day my WW moved out. I was more than ready to pull the plug on this marriage prior….but I waited. In SAA the BS had an 18 mos. time limit to coincide with the statistic likelihood that the affair would have run its course within 2 years of exposure.

If you have the discipline to stick to that date regardless of your feelings this forum can serve as a great outlet and give a sense of solidarity. I find few here have the stamina to go that long though and some of that can be attributed the immersion into this community of the broken hearted. One tends to focus here on pain and a plan B…..a true plan B with the focus taken off of ones grievously wounded marriage, does not need the constant reminder of the pain one has and does endure. In a pure plan B one places their marriage, or more appropriately their marriage partner, at a distance where their antics are not so likely to cause the BS any more harm than has already been done. In this way you focus more on what is truly good in your life…..you begin to look for and forward to all the blessings you have rather then back at all the pain you’ve endured.

Then if……..if your WH returns and you are past the initial gut wrenching pain we have all felt, you can base your decision on whether to reconcile or not on what your life looks like without him rather than base it on how much misery he has caused you. Being here can remind us too much of the misery I think sometimes. One tends to get fatigued just talking about the events surrounding affairs and it just seems easier to throw in the towel, to “give that bass turd what he truly deserves”. As I said no one will fault you for that and some may even encourage it. I’m simply suggesting you be careful on how you arrive at that decision or more accurately how you gain your perspective.

Binder, thank you so much for a truly spectacular post.

Just to clarify though: I am hanging in and hoping my WH wakes up. I think there are different definitions of "moving on", but mine doesn't involve "giving up" on WH. My definition of moving on is simply living your life, and living it to the full. I think moving on is something ALL BSs must do. That is, they must not come to a screeching halt with dreams, hopes, goals, etc., just because the WS has thrown them into the deep end. So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm finding the process of moving on with my life OK, but my heart aches very much for my H (the H I was privileged to know and be with, once).

I haven't set a date, other than the one-year period from when WH moved out because that's the time that must elapse in my part of the world before you can divorce; WH said (actually, he told the children) that he "wouldn't stay married to me one minute longer than he has to". I'm fully expecting him to file, and fully expecting horrendous pain when he does, but what will happen after that I'm not sure. Since I've been here I have learnt that the WS can indeed turn around after the D, so I think I may have to consider waiting after this time, too. I believe that love IS a choice and I can make it along with other choices (such as waiting, or not waiting), and have no fear, now that I've removed myself from WH and his horrid, love-destroying behavior, that my choices will be influenced by bad feeling.

I understand what you mean about the effect on one's hopes of immersing yourself in this kind of online forum. Maybe this is what is happening to me. Maybe all the pain is being absorbed into me. Maybe, when I read good news, I start to feel like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz, after the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Lion have been given their rewards: "Oh, I don't think the wizard has anything in that bag for me."

WH has been gone since 29 May, 2005. He started his "friendship" with the OW in July. Is it still early days? Lately I feel like I can't say this any more. And niggling doubts have entered my mind that this is an exit affair and there's every chance that I'm holding on in vain.

Actually... I'm really interested in the answer to this. When does it stop being "early days"? (And I'd still appreciate an opinion as to whether this is an exit affair, too, btw.)

Still wondering...

Hmmm...

I'm just after opinions on something.

Yesterday I sent an e-mail to WH ask if he could have S10 on consecutive weekends. Now... I DON'T want excess communication with him, and I DON'T want to know what he's up to. And he's always happy to tell, just as long as I don't ask him. Last time I saw him face to face, I asked him if he could have S10 for an hour, and rather than yes or no, he said, "No, sorry, I'm going out. I'm going to the cinema. I'm going to see the new Harry Potter movie." So you see how it is. So at the end of the e-mail, I wrote, "Could you please let me know ASAP. A "yes" or "no" answer will be fine."

That's all I wanted. Yes or no.

So I get this back:

"Firstly River Tam

1. This Saturday (11th Feb) morning to Sunday (12th Feb) evening is no problem.

Please clarify dates for the other because it sounds like you mean Thursday 16th (not Friday 17th). I'm not being picky, just want to be sure before confirming.

Thank you

WH"

-----

Now, I don't want to talk about the "I'm not being picky" comment, which translated is: "I really really really am NOT a bad guy, you know, despite all the horrible things I've said to you. Please don't interpret me the wrong way! I'm a good guy! I'm a good guy! Everyone knows I'm a good guy! Pleeeeeaaaaase remember I'm a good guy!", etc. I'm wondering about the letter as a whole, and the fact that it wasn't just yes or no. I wouldn't wonder very much, except that a couple of hours later, S16 (who lives with him) rings me up for a chat, and while on the phone, he says, "Oh, yeah. Dad asked me to tell you that he can't have S10 next weekend because he'd already made plans to go away that weekend."

I said fine. I heard WH say something to S16 in the background, and S16 said, "Hang on, Dad wants to talk to you." I said, "It's not necessary. Tell Dad he can put it in an e-mail if he wants." I heard S16 say to WH, "No, it's OK, she says you don't need to talk to her." WH then said something else which I took to be pushy, because S16 got really assertive and said, "It's OK, Dad, I'm dealing with it!" And that was that.

Now...

What do you all make of that?

I don't want to read any meaning into this, but still it gets me wondering. Of course, maybe he's this way because he's a talker, has always been a talker, and will always be a talker. But maybe it's because he wants to show me that life goes on without me? Maybe he wants to show me that he's doing stuff with the OW that he didn't do with me? That he doesn't just have work in his life and nothing else, as I have accused him of doing? Maybe he wants to tell me what he's up to because he sees me as a "friend"?

Or maybe... it's about control. And NC isn't sitting well with him.

I'd appreciate some insights.

All of the above? It is definitely controlling, rude, and lots of other unprintable things to drag his son into the middle of this. Part of him surely wants to rub your nose in things, just as surely as part of him wants to reach out and touch you somehow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Maybe next time, do not stop your son from handing the phone over, to keep him out of the middle of it, and then just hang up? It's rude, but not nearly as rude as what he was doing to your poor boy.

Does anyone else have any brighter ideas?

Thanks, Neak.

Now I have another question.

I have just sent him this email:

--------

Hello WH,

Details for S10's visits are as follows:

1. I will drop S10 off this Saturday 11th Feb in the morning. I will be picking him up on Sunday evening. I will ring to let you know my time of arrival.

2. You will pick up S10 up after school on Thursday 16th. He will stay with you overnight and you will take him to school in the morning of Friday 17th, and that will be the extent of your access.

I am taking this as requiring no further confirmation. Please do not reply to this e-mail.

Thank you,
River Tam

----------------------

Despite this, he replied, with this:

Hello River Tam,

Re: Details for S10's visits:

Just for my information, where will S10 be staying on the other 3 days please?

Otherwise, I require no further confirmation or information.

Thank you,
WH

--------------------

DO I TELL HIM? Is it any of his business? And what good will it do him knowing if he's out of town?

River...

I don't have kids, so take what I say with a grain of salt....


My thoughts: He does not want to be a family right now. If that continues, he will not know what you or the kids are doing at 3pm on Sunday, Nov 19th 2006! This is what he wanted!

Nothing requires that you tell him what you or the kids are planning when you have the kids. He can be curious, but you don't need to respond.

So, you can do the following:
1. ignore the email.
2. tell him "what happens when the kids are with me is on a need to know basis". (no more, that way he will get, that you do not see him as someone who "needs to know").
3. tell him what you are doing (I don't recommend this, as he really needs to get that the life he choise does NOT include you enlightining him to day to day decisions. If he wants to know, he better argue it in court. I doubt it will fly though).


Best, I know the situation you are in sucks.

Take care,
Daisy

I see no problem with answering him. It is fine to talk about child arrangements. The reason you need to stay as dark as possible is because talk of child arrangements often leads to other talk.

My husband would start out talking about finances, and then want to talk about everything else. That happened to me over and over again, and was a big waste of time, as he never would agree to anything.

Nice "parroting" that he did in his e-mail back to you.....

I think he's a bit irritated about the limited correspondence from you.

I would just send a short reply about where your son will be the other days.....

You're doing good!! It's tough to hang in there sometimes, but we do it b/c we have HOPE.

Take care,

Kim

That's great guys, thanks for taking the time to answer!

I sent him a three-word answer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

River,

U gotta stop taking his e-mails sooo personally. Now u r a writer. Chill.

Don't tell him what t/d. WS' can't handle it and lash out with their forked tongue.

Consider responses more in the line of reverse babble, like.....


WS: I have to go see a movie meant t/b viewed with my children but I want to see it by myself. I can't watch son as you requested.

BS: Ok.

******************

WS: I have to shave my legs and can't have the children over as previously scheduled.

BS: Ok.

******************

WS: Why are you not getting mad at me?

BS: Ok.

********************

Ws: I am trying to irritate you and you don't seem to react. Don't you love me?

BS: No not as long as u r a WS.

Ws: What's a WS?

BS: Wondering spouse. R u still lost?

Ws: huh?!??!!?

**************************

Ws: Can I take you to dinner, I'd like to talk with you. I promise t/b civil and nice.

BS: Hm.... let me think about it. I will get back to you.

WS: When?

Bs: Later.

Ws: Can't u tell me when?

BS: No.

*******************************

See it isn't hard to reverse babble, it just takes a long time to get your point across.

L.