You don't need the first two sentences of the paragraph that begins "In the letter". Don't bother with the mind-reading. It will just confuse him or offend him.

GC

river

each time Jennifer Harley helps me to write a letter or e-mail to my H, the letter is very kind and includes statements about how much I are about him and that I am hurting by his actions.

i wonder if your letter could be a little nicer?

maybe i just took it the wrong way?

RT-

Just re-send the plan B letter. Why?? Because all the other stuff is just explaining your position. Just re-send that PBL to let him know that you are NOT flexible as far as your marriage and this *A* are concerned.

God Bless,

-Caren

OK so I aim for something more to the point as per Kim's, or remove that first para? OK, let me think about that.

Eav, you're not the first person to comment on the "tone" of my letters. I don't know about expressing my care for him and how much he's hurting me. I see this as a business letter, and nothing more. If I was in Plan A, I would, but in Plan B I am very leery of doing this. As I understood it, during Plan B, the WS is not to get ANY warm and fuzzies from the BS. First, I'd be meeting his ENs in doing this, and second, my WH has shown that he is not to be trusted with my feelings. They are dismissed, or trashed, or used against me.

So... any other thoughts?

river

i understand how you feel...ny H is treating me the same...you know that

but Jennifer seemed to think this was supposed to be a lettr from "the person they would want to come back to"

she also told me that plan B is about protecting yourself from their lovebusting AND protecting them from YOURS

ps

when i read my plan B letter...it makes me FEEL the love I have for my H (it makes me cry)

this is what you hope he someday feels from your letter

and it still gets my point across about the contact and ending the affair

Thanks, Caren, that's a good idea. I think we posted at almost the same time there!

Thanks Eav. Yeah, I see what you and JH mean, it's just that after all my Plan Aing, plus 21 years together, I am past proving anything else about myself. He has received some beautiful letters from me since he's been gone, and they were from the person he would want to come back to. That person has now removed herself from him, and she will not make an appearance until he's sorted himself out. In the meantime, he gets this other person instead: all business, all the time. Does that make sense?

Stick with the business-like approach. You're supposed to be as dark as you can be, an empty hole in a vacuum. Frankly, I think Kimberly's suggestion is the best. Keep it short and to the point. Perhaps you could use the original Plan B email to him. Just type a few short sentences at the top of it and forward it to him. That way you get away without repeating yourself, but he sees the Plan B "letter" again too. Also, perhaps you might re-address the issue of getting an intermediary to handle all communication?

I strongly suggest you get those locks changed and your boarder educated on proper security. What if it had been a Ted Bundy wannabee out on the prowl?

Thanks, Longhorn. I've just edited my original letter right back, but Kimberley's suggestion is starting to look like a much better option. There are too many pitfalls in writing anything longer.

OK so here it is, almost unchanged from Kimberley's suggestion:

------------

WH,

Please respect my earlier request and do not come into the house without being allowed by me, or come to our home or property unannounced. Until you have completely ended all pursuit of your affair this cannot happen and I cannot see or speak to you. If you need to see the children, please make arrangements ahead of time.

I have enclosed a copy of my last letter, below. Please do not reply to this e-mail.

Love always,

River Tam

(Plan B letter follows)

------------

What do you think?

RT -

I think that sounds fine ---- you aren't lovebusting, you are direct and FIRM. But loving(love always). Hopefully he will respect your wishes of no contact.

Your Plan B letter will reiterate your feelings for him & show him the path home.....

Will see what everybody else thinks though....

Hang in there & Blessings!

Kim

i think that's a great way to do this!

OK, great. I'll send it now.

Thanks again!

OK so I've sent it. He hasn't replied, which is GREAT news. I don't want drama.

Thanks again, everyone!

Hi RT,

For WSs, Kim is right, usually the shorter and to the point the better!

Expect WS to 'test you' once in a while....mine does.... my WS thought he had me 'wrapped around' his little finger....seeing that I love S.... what he doesn't know is that I know the difference now between S and WS!

quote:---------------------------------------------------
But it's not a "sacred guilt", of the kind that prompts change in behavior, it's more a self-indulgent, "poor me" guilt that can go on for a long time.
---------------------------------------------------------

I agree.... than add some pride to that....wanting at all cost to prove they were right.... and now you know why a BS in PLAN B needs to think in terms of 'months' rather than days and weeks to see any changes, if at all!

RT...I don't know if you mentioned it already....but...how many children do you have and what is the arrangement? How are they dealing with the situation?

Bingo, RT.

GC

Great point! Same here. He took to saying stuff like, "I've changed... I'm not the person you used to know..." And I'm thinking, you've just said a cottonpickin' mouthful, man! He's NOT the person he used to be, and that's no compliment!


Yeah, I think pride is a biggie too. I wouldn't have thought so a few months ago because I was still confusing H with WH and H isn't proud, but now that I know JUST how alien this being in my H's body is, I can see lots of pride, as well as a host of other undesirables that my H never had.

I do hope he changes back though. I miss my H... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


We have three kids: D18, S16, and S10 (about to turn 11). D18 and S10 live with me, S16 with his dad. He wants to be with him, and that's fine. I haven't made it hard for him not for a second. Thing is, that out of the two boys (D18 says she "doesn't like" her dad any more), he's the one that can choose when to see his father; deep inside, he knows that if he lived here, and it was left up to his dad, who knows when he'd see him. In a very real and effective way, he has removed the possibility of rejection because he's just THERE. S10 is a lot better than he used to be. It was extremely distressing for him, not just because it always is, but because it came out of the blue, and because he's one of these children who is really tightly bonded with both parents. D18 doesn't want to have anything much to do with her dad. She's got her head on straight and can pretty much see what her dad is doing. She's the only one of the kids who can see past his babble.

We've got D18's best friend living with us as a boarder, and by and large it's a pretty happy household. Which I NEVER would have dreamt happening when this all went down.

Hmmm...

OK so yesterday S16 and WH's employee came over to pick up some mowing stuff, and they dropped off the mail at the same time. Today, WH's employee came to drop off the mail again! He also had to pick up the jerry can for mower fuel, but you know, given that I live out of town, I kinda think it would have been easier and cheaper to buy another jerry can!

You know what... this might seem stupid and trite, but I don't think he needed the jerry can, I think he really just wanted to send my mail over. I think he's doing the manipulative, "I'm a good guy! I'm a good guy! See River Tam and everybody? I'M A GOOD GUY!" thing again. Even though for a while there he professed to being afraid of doing nice things for me because I might read them "the wrong way", he still did them. Over and over again he did this whole, "come hither, stay away" thing and kept me on tenterhooks thinking he was coming around and becoming the H I knew. Now I'm thinking that I'm beginning to read his actions correctly: he's right, this isn't about him becoming the H I knew, it's about MANIPULATION.

Hi RT,

Thanks for addressing my question.

quote:---------------------------------------------------
D18, S16, and S10 (about to turn 11). D18 and S10 live with me, S16 with his dad.
----------------------------------------------------------

...and so....does S16 have set visitation time with you? and ....S10 with dad?.... or not?

The reason I am asking.... is that right now my two boys, S15 and S10, alternate one week each.... but S15 has made it clear that he would prefer staying with me all the time.... I am holding out a bit...because I do think it's important for his dad to be in his life, especially adolescence, (even as a WS I know he still cares very much for his boys) and I also don't want to 'break' up the two brothers.... but maybe they will have to..... anyway... the issue has come up again... but I am in PLAN B.... I will have to write to WS about this.....hoping that WS would try to 'improve' his relationship with S15...who basically complaints that WS expects too much of him but, I have seen them 'discussing', it looks to me that in their exchanges they are 'confrontational' - meaning.... they argue about everything....which means 'about nothing'..... and only end up frustrating each other more.....

Anyway....sorry for the threadjacking... but I would like your thoughts about this... and also on how you are handling visitation with your WS.....

quote:----------------------------------------------------
this isn't about him becoming the H I knew, it's about MANIPULATION.
----------------------------------------------------------

RT....until A is over...your H is not even in the picture.... again, as Dr. Phil would say....how do you know WS is lying?..... when he opens his mouth....

...that's why in PLAN B we need to be going on our 'merry way'..... until WS comes knocking at the door..... serious about ending A, getting OW out of the picture, and recommitting to family, because even then things may not work out, imagine if we take in a WS!

..until then....whatever we say.... it will be a waste of breath..... or be intepreted to justify the A.... the hardest part to accept is PLAN B is that WS may not come knocking at the door.... or at least, not soon enough....

....my WS also does 'things' for me.....but, even though I appreciate it and benefit from it, I know that deep down he is doing it first and foremost to alleviate some of the guilt... and to be able to tell himself that he is being 'responsible' inspite of the A... and I think that's why PLAN B can be effective.... WS cannot 'focus' on what BS does or says to them..... there is N/C, no R talk, nothing but the bare minimum.... and is forced to face 'himself' and/or OW in the 'reality' world..... not a pretty picture I suspect....

I have already said, inspite of the pain I experienced as a BS, I think I prefer it to the internal turmoil faced, or NOT, by a WS in light of the irresponsible selfish act of choosing to have an A.

Sorry...didn't mean to be this long....

...sounds like you're doing OK...are you, RT? ....that is, all things considered....

Yes, we have visitation, but it's not set. It's very relaxed. S16 can come here whenever he likes, and S10 can go there whenever he likes (as long as the OW isn't there).



I felt the same about S16 living with WH, because IMO the only "real" thing that WH has in his life is being father to him full time. That said... I don't think you can force this. At 15, you have to seriously consider letting him make the choice.



Well, what do you expect? They're BOTH teenagers! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No, really: if your WH is like mine, and of a certain age and he's going through MLC, he is as good as having a second adolescence, and you can just expect fireworks between them.

Teenage boys are coming into their own as young men, and I have found that they HATE having their decisions questioned. So what I would do is sit down with S15 and ask him why he wants to be with you all the time. Validate everything he has to say. Tell him that you will respect and support every decision he makes unless he is making a decision that will harm him (and then you will step in). But also you MUST tell him that running away from his dad won't solve any problems between them. If he wants his decision to be respected as an adult's, then he MUST behave as an adult also: no headbutting with dad!

You know... kids will try this on. When parents are separated, they will go where it's easiest.



Absolutely!



I agree. That's what I meant with the "I'm a good guy!" thing. It's guilt appeasement, pure and simple. But regardless of what he says about not wanting me in his life, I think a part of him wants me reading his actions for meaning. He is, after all a depressed man, and like 99% of depressed men (and most men in general), he gets his self esteem from what he DOES and not who he IS. Add a bit of narcissism to the mix, and yeah... so much from escaping his "emotional abuser", eh?



I think you're right. They're tormented souls. I'm not. There's no turmoil within, and my growth since he's left has been phenomenal, whereas not only has he remained static, but de-evolved quite spectacularly.

I am OK, I really am. I miss my H, but hey, what's new? Other than that, life is very good indeed.

How are you today?

...RT