Yay, Shattered! I'm so happy for you, and for me even the worst R day has been miles better than the best A day.

You already know my theme song: Don't Neglect The Details.

This is such good news!

Stahttered,

I am currently in a similar position. WS has finally agreed to no contact, but this first has to be established. The OW will be transferred to a different workplace.

I have an appointment with Steve Harley today. This is our best opportunity for negotiating conditions for our spouses return and for setting boundaries. You might want to check my thread tomorrow to read about how my appointment with SH went and what his advice is for me.

Mrs. Stowaway, Neak, Confused, and Losttranslation,

Thank you so much for your input. I went to bed last night and just saw your posts now. I am on my way out so I will respond further later tonight.

My one issue is that he is living with OW so I think he needs to withdraw here rather than stay there and work on us. He won't get an apt or anything like that. He will just choose between here and there and obviously we all know I'd rather him be here! Thanks again, I"ll chat later.
S.

I don't think thats such a good idea. He jumped from your bed to hers, I don't think you should let him jump back again. He needs to go sleep on a friend's couch for a while. Just because he doesn't have a place of his own yet doesn't mean he should get a free pass home without earning it. Just my opinion.

I agree. Mine spent a couple of months at his business partner's home. That couple was pro-marriage and understood that I couldn't just let him come right home without doing some IC and MC work etc. In hindsight it probably could have been longer than 2 months because two years later he had another A with different OW. So there was a part of boundaries and real commitment that he still didn't get. We went through the MB program after the last A and didn't have a separation.

Don't forget ladysheeps thread on STD's -wait 4 months. Have him get ck'd out if he wants home OK?

Yeah, my H moved in with OW, and 3 days later went inpatient for counseling for depression... THANK GOD his wonderful sister and brother-in-law (newlyweds at the time) let him move into their upstairs so that he would have somewhere to go other than our house or OW's house.

Is there ANYONE who supports your marriage that he could crash with for a few weeks/months?

Shattered -

I saw your thread yesterday I think and so wanted to jump in and cheer you on!! I am thrilled that he is wanting to come home!!!!

Please, please though think about what everyone is saying here. Going straight from OW's place to yours? Just give it some more thought. Let him know that trust needs to be build first along with him sending a NC letter.

O.k.?

BTW, thanks so much for your post the other day....

Kim

Shattered05

Somehow it just was going to turn out this way, and you can give yourself a hearty pat on the back for finding a way to do a great Plan A, and show your H what he was losing, if he stayed on his wayward path. Your upbeat approach has been paramount in this latest development.

You are getting great advice here, now you will have to sort it out and see what is the most workable (not necessarily the easiest) plan for you. The suggestions you've receive already that I would "second" that you give consideration to are a joint session with the Harleys, a MB "approved" NC letter and a list of things WH must come into compliance with regarding a shot at returning.

He should forfiet all passwords to you, get a change on his cell phone number so OW does not know it, change your home phone number if it's listed or OW knows it, a list of "accountability" responsibilities with him making SURE you know his whereabouts at all times. I don't recall if WH and OW worked together, but if so, a change of job, however difficult, is critical. NC is NC and must remain so for life. Review Surviving an Affair and built in some positive things, especially the 15 hours per week of face time with your WH, not in front of the TV, but in a "courting or dating" atmosphere, so you can begin to reconnect.

You will need to be a safe and loving ROCK for him to come to for comfort as he Withdraws from the OW. You will also have to be capable of tough love if he fails to comply in ways you need for him to do so.

Recovery is an uncharted journey, and much of the work is done on the fly, moment by moment, without the same sort of "direction" spelled out for Plan A and Plan B.

Remember to keep those positive changes in yourself as part of Plan A, in place, or he'll accuse you of bait and switch. Your WH may have already begun to detach somewhat from the OW, but there will be some withdrawal. Explain to him that you understand all of that, and ask what you can do to help him through this difficult period.

We are so proud of you and your efforts, and the resulting steps toward success. Take just a brief moment to pat yourself on the back, and take a deep breath and prepare for the uncertainty you'll be facing in the near future.

My outlook was this. I told my WW that our marriage was severely broken, and when she agreed to come back, it was OUR responsibility to craft our marriage into whatever we wanted it to be. We are the architects, designers, builders and clean up crew. It can be what we make it, it's a brand new dawn.

You will be just fine!

Best wishes,
SD

SD, so glad to see ya back, my friend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi SD's! How was your vacation? We missed you!

I'm taking in all the advice and trying to figure out how to do this. The living situation seems to be the big sticking point. I will really know more Saturday when we sit down by ourselves. I don't know yet how badly he wants to come back and what he is willing to do for it. He may still try to negotiate some things.

I have a question. I completely understand the NC, not working together, etc. But the # changes and all the little things get me thinking. I think of an alcoholic. You can try and keep alcohol away and hide it from them, etc., but if they're an alcoholic, they will find a way to get some. Isn't it the same with WS? Either they are done with OW or they're not. I don't feel very safe if the onus is soley on me to keep them apart. What kind of a relationship is that? He has to have some self control and responsibility here.

Yes, I think so. A family friend/father figure who also had A's that resulted in the end of his 40+ year marriage. He is remarried now (not to A partner). He regrets it deeply and tried to talk to WH soon after he moved out. WH hasn't talked to him since, doesn't return his calls.

I think I am feeling like WH won't agree to this.

What do you think about him living here in another bedroom?

Thanks for your support Kim. I appreciate it and need it.

I don't think you need to worry too much. When you talk to him, you will get your answers. We are always so thrilled that the WS might be coming back that I think we overlook some warning signs.

If he won't write the NC letter, you will know. If he doesn't want to hurt the OW (but doesn't mind hurting you), you'll have your answer. If he feels like he can negotiate keeping secrets, or have any control over the terms of coming home, I would wait.

I would emphasize to him that you want a whole new marriage, and can and will forgive him, but will continue to protect yourself until he has earned your trust once again.

Thank you Believer. You are always the voice of reason. I've been reading and thinking, reading and thinking. I think I am okay asking for what I need. I think I could be okay asking for what is suggested here because you folks know better than me. The more I think about it, the better it is to ask for things. It shows I respect myself and I think he needs to know that. Like someone said, I will never again have the leverage that I have now. With all I've learned, I think I can even make it known in a neutral, non LB'ing way. I can wait.

The trick is using this time to negotiate for what you need to feel safe, while at the same time giving him some hope that he will be forgiven and the marriage can thrive.

No WS wants to feel like this mistake is going to be held over their head forever. On the other hand, it would be wrong to just take him back like nothing happened.

You have done very well with the plans here and I'm confident that you will do well on this too.

The friends house has merit. A chance for WH to mend a(yet another) damaged relationship, and have a safe harbor.

A seperate bedroom in the house could be the second best plan to resort to, as a hotel/flophouse would give him huge amounts of time by himself, with his time totally unaccounted for. If he does come back to your home, he would have to understand you have a list of "dealbreakers", things if he even slips up on once, he's out again. One of those things should be NC.

Your mission in beginning recovery is multi-faceted, but there are two key things you must do. Continue loving him and caring for him as you have done in Plan A. Secondly, if feeling your way in reconnecting with him. A word of caution... every moment spent w/him cannot evolve into a relationship discussion. In fact, part of your negotiation with him before he comes home could be and hour and a half of relationship talk on Wednesday night and Saturday morning, whatever suits your schedule. Perhaps even three times a week at first. If you talk about it constantly, a WS will feel berated EVERY time, and start to withdraw and clam up. Make him feel safe and set boudaries for the talks... if one or both of you start to get angry, call a time out. You will soon learn that the dynamics of your "previous" marriage will begin to re-manifest, you may have to BOTH work on changing and improving your communication skills, so the conversations can produce positive results, rather than petty bickering over incidental items. You'll find out what I mean! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Just react to it in a positive way.

In your meeting Saturday, be a GREAT listener, and allow (encourage however you can) him to do most of the talking. Avoid questions that can be answered with a YES or NO, or that's all you get. Don't try to get too far into the details all we BS's want so bad, because you need some "reconnections" before he'll feel safe enough to share those things.

I would still strongly encourage you and WH do a joint counseling session with the Harleys from the very get-go, and then you will have a professional opinion on how to proceed, and the Harley's have a great reputation for getting a WS to see "through the fog" a bit.

Hope this helps a bit!

Thanks shattered05 and ML for the welcome back!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Shattered, please do consider counseling with SH so that you don't have to go through the ****** of a false recovery. SH can even speak to your H to gage his sincerity and put you on the right path. It wouldn't need to be an ongoing thing, just a meeting to get geared in the right direction.

Believer and shattereddreams gave you some excellent pointers. We are not trying to be overly cautious, but just have seen some disasters on this forum from false recoveries. We just don't want you to go through that he11. Better to be prepared up front, than lose in the end.

::: minor threadjack:::

Trip was fun... stayed one night in Austin, ate at Pappadeaux's, excellent seafood, then on to Port Aransas...played golf one day, went deep sea fishing another and just explored the island. Had a nice clean rental that slept 6 comfortably. We had great seafood at Virginia's, the Big Kahauna, the Fin and one other restaurant I don't remember the name of. FWW and I shared a bottle of bubbly on the eve of the 29th, our 32nd wedding anniversary. We had a dinner date once we returned to Kansas, just after the first of the year, as we were traveling w/my 18 yo son, my 27 yo son, and my 53 yo brother and his wife. (they divorced after my brother's infidelity years ago, and remarried 7 years later, as an MB related sidenote. They've been together this second time for about 15 years)

On the 30th we went to San Antonio, explored the Riverwalk, Alamo and ate at a nice place in Market Square. On the 31st we played golf some 40 miles west on I-10 then did the Riverwalk on NYE, but crashed before the fireworks were shot off at midnight, because low clouds/fog obscured the tower (the second time that's happened to us). Drove back to Kansas on NY Day, through the brown haze and a lot of smoke from the wildfires from drought striken west Tx and OK. Were diverted off I-35 N at Guthrie due to fires between the business route downtown and I-35. That particular fire took several homes and outbuildings. The surface winds in OKC were clocked at 55 mph. We did get great gas mileage on the trip home, thanks to that wind!

That's the trip. Here's hoping you get some much needed rain very soon in your neck o' the woods!

:::ending threadjack:::
SD

Sounds like a great trip, sd, hope you also got some good Mexican food in there as I know it is not that common in Kansas. And I just love Pappadeaux's and am extremely impressed you can spell it! I love their shrimp brochette. Glad you're back!