It is UP TO HIM to do the heavy lifting here, NOT YOU.

I know I'm late to the discussion, but I'm all about this answer. He broke the trust, he can do the homework to find out how to rebuild it.

I wouldn't expect him to get the answer right the first time, but praise him if he makes a real effort and finds parts of the answer.

If he asks, answer honestly and completely, it does not good for you to withhold information he needs. But the assignment should be his, not yours.

T

S, if it were me, I would cut off contact. He is still on the fence and is killing you with all these games. He is trying to play both sides of the fence and this could go on forever. I fear if you let him come back under these conditions, that you will just be dealing with more heartbreak frm watching his affair up close. There is only so much a person can take.

I think if you cut off contact, it will give you some much needed strength after you withdraw from him. You will be removed from this constant emotional pain and in a better mental position to make sound decisions.

Another possible result is that it will pull him off the fence. But as long as he is getting his needs met in TWO places, he really has no reason to come down off that fence.

Please consider just removing yourself frm the game. Send him a letter, whatever, but just tell him you are not impressed with his overtures thus far and are withdrawing your name from the games. You are quitting.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I was thinking this also, why don't YOU tell me what YOU plan on doing to make this marriage spectacular!!

I agree with all the feedback - thanks!

My sarcastic list was going to state:

Let's see, no sleeping with other women, etc. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I was thinking this also, why don't YOU tell me what YOU plan on doing to make this marriage spectacular!!

I agree with all the feedback - thanks!

My sarcastic list was going to state:

Let's see, no sleeping with other women, etc. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]

Shattered, please see my last post, we were cross posting. I don't have high hopes for getting a "plan" from so if you don't get much, please consider cutting off contact as I suggested above.

Listen to Melody. She will guide you in the right direction.

After 4 months of Plan B, my WH suddenly called me at work and told me he was in the process of moving back home. I hadn't heard from him in months, and was shocked, but sooooo excited.

I posted here from work, and Melody told me "NOOOOOOOOOO!! Not until we discussed things. I went home to talk to him, and he announced that he would unload the OW AFTER he moved home, if things were still good for him. I was able to keep him out. YIKES! I came so close to getting myself in a big mess.

I will never forget that day. You were you so brave! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I won't either, Melody. And I'm so grateful to you and everyone else who seem to always be around when things get tough. Now I look back and laugh at it. Imagine, being at work, finding out WH is moving home, running to this board, getting great advice, and then taking care of business.

Mel,
I know you must be exasperated with me at this point but I'm just having such a hard time with this. I guess I worry about what if he's in a really bad place right now, filled with shame and trying to make some life decisions. Then after luring him back all this time I slam the door on him. I worry that could be the final nail in the coffin. I guess I worry he may choose the path of least resistence.

He called us this morning around 7AM to say Happy Valentine's Day. DS and I both picked up the phone at the same time and WH said I love you guys! He gave us cards and candy on Sunday. The card he gave me was a somewhat generic card. DS told me yesterday that he wrote in Dad's card, "I hope you come home."

I took a chance and gave him a card that said basically all I want to do is love you. I want to come home to your arms every night and share my hopes and dreams for the future and have you share the same. He seemed to really like it, cried a bit, gave me a hug and told me what a nice card it was.

After he left I started crying again. I hate that. I decided to take a chance and call him and tell him what was in my heart. I called and told him I've been holding back because I don't want to push him away. I then told him that I was starting to worry "what if" he didn't know how I really felt. I told him the rejection was hard and I feel like I'm putting my heart on the chopping block. I told him I want him to come home, I want him here. I told him I want counseling so that we can communicate and have a fresh start, not revisit our old marriage. I also explained withdrawal and what happens when you contact OW again. I told him I felt this was where he's at now. I felt much better after I told him.

He said I know, I'm going to counseling to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I need to help myself before I can help us. This sounds good to me but it also sounds a little like coaching from OW. A week ago he didn't think he needed counseling.

He called me last night when he knew I was alone to ask for a list. I joked and said you mean like how often you need to clean the bathroom and that you'll call me Godess from hereon out? He laughed. The Valentine's call this morning was great and sounded sincere. I can't help but wonder if he's getting it over with so he's free tonight.

Melody and Believer,

After reading my last post, do you still think I should cut off contact?

I'll leave that answer for Melody. She is much better at this stuff.

I felt the same way, didn't want to scare him away, and make him feel hopeless. But as he continued to play games for another couple of months, my taker came out. We had a discussion about withdrawal, and he told me how hard it was going to be to give up OW. I told him not to expect me to comfort him. He got himself in this mess, and he could get himself out.

So that is why you have to be careful.

Yes, Shattered. I think he is dragging his feet. I don't think the reason he hasn't returned is because he feels shame, but is because he is cake eating. I would bet $100 he is still in contact with the OW and is keeping her online to see if things improve there.

I see no indication that he is serious about coming back and working on this marriage. I think he offered to come back because of some blow up/issue with the OW. That means he is not ready to commit, he was only ready to get away frm the OW for a while.

Do you really think he has ended contact with her? Has he sent her a nc letter?

He did tell me in shock that OW thinks he's a racist. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


No I guess I don't believe he ended contact but for some reason I don't feel they have a future together.

They DON'T. But he is going to drag this out as looooooooong as he can because he is not quite ready to give her up. And he DOESNT HAVE to give her up as long as he has you on the line.

See, she can't meet his needs and he can't live with her. But she is still meeting some minor need of his. He can ENDURE THIS state of affairs as long as you continue to SUPPLEMENT HIM!! That way he doesn't have to face the obvious deficit of needs with the OW.

If you are gone, though, then he has to fully face that the OW is completley inappropriate and can't cut the mustard. This CAUSES THE AFFAIR TO CRUMBLE ON ITS OWN.

The only thing standing between him and that important realization is *YOU*. He can endure this crippled relationship as long as he has you around to fill in the GAPS left by OW.

Do you see?

Thanks Melody. Unfortunately I do "get it". I'm going to ponder all this to get the strength and courage to say buh bye. Thanks for your support and don't give up on me. I may be a slow learner but I do learn eventually.

I know. And I won't give up on you. Just think it over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Shattered,

Just wanted to lend my support and let you know I'm behind you in whatever you decide to do.

There are no guarantees in anything we do and certainly not with Plan B. I know it's hard since I'm just about to go into Plan B myself, but Melody has not misguided you yet.

You told me that you are better at analyzing other peoples situations than your own. You may find this funny, but my DS has become a huge Star Wars fan and believe it or not much of the Jedi ideology applies to MB principles.

There is a scene at the end of Srar Wars IV where Luke hears Ben Kanobi's voice (his mentor) as he is desperately trying to destroy the Death Star while flying his fighter jet. The voice tells him to "let go of your emotions".

Steve Harely has told me this many times and the reason is that our emotions don't allow us to see around the corner.

take care,
HTW

Hi Shattered,
I would not give him a list. From what I gather the first objective is to restore love between you and POJA is maybe the only demand to be placed on him. Since he is to agree anyway that should not be so bad.

Why not offer him HNHN to read and see what he thinks.

Take care,

DLK21

Hi Shattered05. As usual, you are getting good advice. I'm just chiming in to say I sort of like the idea of him furnishing you a list of what HE'S willing to commit to, in order to return home.

The list would be pretty telling as to whether or not he's still in the fog, or, if he's beginning to think like someone who deserves to be let back in to your life.

If you like what he offers, tell him a NC letter is in order and once you drop it in the mail with him, you can begin to negotiate his return.

Remember, above all else, his actions will make his intentions clear. His words, however suceptable you may be to them, mean nothing unless his actions back them up.

Hang in there shattered05. This can be done, but it takes the time it takes. We BS's are so eager for good turns of events that it can jolt us out of a grounded state of mind. It takes a steady wind to bend a tree.

Best wishes,
SD

Thanks everybody for your posts. I know you are right. He's busted tonight. I called him on his cell and he didn't answer. I called the friend's house whose couch he is crashing on and asked to speak to him. I was told he wasn't there. I said thank you and hung up. I knew it but it sucker punches me every time. I told my little boy and he is hurt and angry. Ugh. The other day DS asked me if daddy was still lying. I said I didn't know and asked why. He said "Because you can't trust a promise." His Valentine card, unbeknown to me, said "I hope you come home daddy." I hope CH is choking on his caldron of lies tonight. And may the ****** who tore this family apart burn in ******. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I will be calm when I next talk to him. I don't think there's much to say.

There is an older man in a nearby store that I chat with whenever I'm in there. I live in a really cool small town. I walked into the grocery store today and there was a local standing near the register, obviously paying a social call, and he was asleep on his feet!! It's like Driving Miss Daisy around here sometimes. Anyway, back to the older man. He was a BS many years ago (10?). His WW moved out and then used to come crying to him every night after the kids were in bed. She wanted him to help her get out of her sitch. He finally told her she had to do it herself and she never did. They are divorced but he knows just where I'm coming from. Well I stopped in there today for a lightbulb and I got a nice Valentine's hug from him. He is currently involved with someone he met a month or two ago. He told me if he didn't meet her, he was going to ask me out to dinner as a "friend". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> He's about 20 years older than me but hey I'll take my flattery anywhere I can get it these days. I left with a little swagger in my stride!

That brings me to my next comment. I am itching to go out with someone. I want a revenge affair. Sadly enough, it wouldn't even be an affair as I am no longer married. I want to see the sick look on CH's face when he sees some other guy with me, in what used to be our/his house. I know this is sick but it's just how I feel right now, for what it's worth. I almost feel like if we ever get back together, I want to have tasted life with someone else as well. Who knows, maybe I'll like it better and I can put all this behind me.

I bought myself flowers today. Actually I bought myself a bouqet the other day and more today from the florist. The florist had beautiful stock which I love and was in my wedding bouqet. I still love it anyway. I want to paint my bedroom. Maybe I'll paint it pink! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />