Thank you cherished. I'm trying to just survive, day to day. Narcissism is basically immaturity. It's functioning emotionally at the level of a bright six year old. It's all me at that age. They can love, but they can throw tantrums and say they hate you just as quickly. It means a lot that you answer my posts. I hope and pray that you are ok in your situation too.

I feel OK with what I am doing. I made the decision not to cope with a marriage of neglect. There is a very easy way to measure neglect -- lack of time together. He spends an average of 15 hours per week with me or we separate. Period. No exceptions.

There is still abuse, however. I am hoping that a person who invests 15 hours in a relationship with another person will learn to value that person. "Where your treasure is, there your heart is." Time is treasure.

When the affair was exposed, I asked him if he ever thought about the impact on me. He said, "You weren't relevant to my thoughts." Well, why should I have been? He basically spent no time with me. Home from work. Snarl: "Leave me alone." Went and read the paper. After the affair was exposed, I was hysterical and he told me last year he was waiting for me to "settle down."

Why would I settle back down into that misery? I basically tolerated neglect in the hope that I would demonstrate my willingness to not be demanding and not be controlling and what I got was a guy who blamed me for his having an affair and who also told me and his family that I need to forgive him and that's all that was needed for us to stay married. No thank you. I'm not making the same mistake again.

I've listened to Harley's radio show now for four years, and to be honest, I think Dr. Harley has some of the same tendencies that Tom and your husband have. What I have come to realize is that he is the way he is because Joyce is the way she is. She puts up with no cr*p whatsoever. I remember once his talking about their dating and her deciding she would date while they were engaged. Can you believe it? All I can say is that she put him on notice from before the wedding that he was out of there if she wasn't treated wonderfully. Harley may put the intellectual spin on all this stuff about meeting ENs but basically he's a wonderful husband because of Joyce. I listen to that radio show to understand how Joyce would react in the situation I find myself in. Tom tells me "shut up". What should I do? Hang up. No point in staying around to be treated like that.

Think about it. You're the one who needs to change, and your husband will only change if you do. Otherwise, he's happy as a clam right now and could care less that you are unhappy. It's easier to be a narcissist than to be a caring adult. All you need to do is find some patsy who will take it. What you need to do is stop being that patsy.

I don't think any of this is incurable, although I sometimes have my doubts. I think it's basic immaturity. I am finding it fairly easy to deal with my almost 12 year old who sometimes acts like a teenager. Angry outbursts? Well, I simply leave. I've learned with Tom how to deal with immaturity.

Cherished

I'm trying to think back to what my H used to admire in me, and respect in me. He really thought a lot of what I did for a living, now I'm not doing it. He also used to like to show me off to friends, now I'm 6 months pregnant. He also used to enjoy being togethr as friends, we had a lot of fun together. Now we don't have any fun together because I'm so busy trying not to cry in front of him. So I'm working on these things.. not for him, but for me. I liked myself better then too. And when I'm back to doing what I need to do to be a happy person, and when I am financially able, I will give him the choice. Maybe at that point, he will decide he wants to keep me badly enough to actually put some effort into our marriage, but if he doesn't, that's his perogative.

Yes, the ball is in his court. All you can do now is let him know that you want him to care about you.
Cherished

Okay, so I was strong and focused this morning, when he didn't come to bed until 5 am, after agreeing last week to come to bed at 2 am on nights he has off work. In spite of a really good evening out together with friends, and when I went to bed at 1:30am, he said "I'll be right up". So this morning I said I would rather he not tell me a lie like that. Just don't say anything rather than lie. I then explained again, probly the clearest yet, that I am not ok with living in a marriage with no love, affection, intimacy, conversation, or emotional support. He said "well then find someone else to give that to you". We should just get a divorce " I replied " you're probly right but I'm not planning on filing until this fall." he asks why.. I say mainly because I'm hoping that he will find some intitiative to show me love himself, but short of that, i can't financially make it on my own till then." He said "so I'm nothing but a paycheck to you?" I said "I would really like for there to be more between us, but you keep telling me you don't want it, and I'm finally listening. So I guess, yes, unless you want a real marriage, that is all you are to me now." He's very angry and just left to go to the gym. I know I'm doing the right thing by setting my boundaries, of what I am willing to accept or not accept. (I need some love, affection, and occasionally sex, and I refuse to accept him lying to me) But it's so hard to deal with his anger and I'm still so lonely. It's such a strong temptation to ask him to just please put his arms around me. I'm soooooo lonely... I feel as if I'm starving to death emotionally. How do I stay strong with him and not turn into a crying, pathetic, begging mess????

I'm not sure what to make of this.. after that conversation and not talking all day, he asked me to go out to dinner with him! It was somewhat uncomfortable, but still nice. Thane afterwards, we came home and watched a movie together. When it was over, I got up to go to bed, expecting him to sleep on the couch as usual. But instead, he turned off the tv and came upstairs with me! I'm still in shock. I'm glad but I dont' understand the contradictions in his actions. Should I just be glad and not try to understand? How do I go about not getting my hopes up and feelings hurt all over again, tmr or next week, when he turns back into being cold to me? Or is this possibly the rocky, one step forward, one step back, path of recovery??

Maybe recovery? or am I just getting my hopes up?

bump...

I've been having nightmares for the last few nights, I think as a result of all the worrying I'm doing about where he is when he comes home hours late from work. He asked if I was ok, because I was acting really tired. I told him about being awoken by the dreams and he said I'm sorry and gave me a kiss. But then the rest of the afternoon, as I was finally napping on the couch, he acted colder and colder to me. He made his own lunch (I ALWAYS make it for him) and didnt' ask if I'd like any. And then just walked out the door when he left for work. No hug, no I hope you sleep better tonight, just yelled down the stairs, I'm leaving now. I dont' know what to think..

Why do you make such pain for yourself with your expectations?

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I don't understand LA, what expectations am I having that are causing me pain? I didnt' expect him to be comforting or consoling to me about these dreams, but it still hurt that he wasn't, because he's my husband and I really needed to talk about them with someone. I had some more bad dreams tonight, that's why I'm up. These were more understandable, a lot about my children. The baby being in a fire and me having to slit my wrist (for some weird reason) to save the baby. This was all VERY graphic and real and I remember the anguish and urgency of it all as the building was burning around us. Then somehow we're through it and back safe at home. But it's my 4 year old with the slit wrist, all the way through, with just a flap of skin holding it on and he keeps forgetting and leaning on it, and I'm afraid his whole hand is going to fall off. I kept wondering why the doctors didn't wrap it and splint it or something. That was just some of it. Maybe it was better the last few nights where I couldn't remember the jumbled terrifying mess?

Post deleted by Cherished

About two weeks ago, H started coming home several hours late from work, but he's only late on days he takes his own vehicle, he's right on time when he carpools. He has various excuses for this, like meetings with the boss and other employees. But both times I mentioned it to one of the other employees, they didn't know anything about a meeting that morning. And h was furious that I asked, even though I brought it up in a round about way, like one of them called here and i said "wow, sounds like that was quite a meeting this morning, what with Justin getting fired and all" to which his answer was "what meeting?? and J got fired???" So this morning H calls (works nights) saying he has to work late, waiting for the boss's call telling him where to haul the load. So the boss is the only one I could call to verify if he's actually working late. Sooo, should I? There will be ****** to pay if the boss mentions to him I called, and if there's any way for H to explain working late. (it really doesn't make sense because they have a day crew that comes in right as the night guys are leaving, to take over where they left off, and they even have to exchange trucks) So what do I do??? There's warning sirens going off in my head that this doesn't add up!!!

It sounds very suspicious to me. Could you put a recorder in his vehicle?

Yes, that's what I'm planning on doing, next week when I get some money to buy one. In the meantime, it's driving me crazy. Do you think that it's too risky to call the office?

He has 2 nights off, so even if I can get the money to buy one by saturday, I still have to try and be patient till then. It's soooo hard!

hello everyone.. I finally have the chance to check back here. Feels like reuniting with some old friends! When I get a little more time, I will update you on my sitch and hopefully get yet some more advice!

so.. last you guys heard, I was 7 months pregnant, in a safehouse for battered women. I was able to get my own place about a month before my son was born. I filed for divorce in April, as WH was still too busy partying and blaming me for everything, to help me financially, even with baby stuff. Within 2 weeks of me filing, he started IC. A month after that he started helping financially, even before there was any court order for child support. Then when the baby was born, it was through an emergency C-section due to placental previa. Both the baby and myself about died. My H says that fear made him reevaluate everything and asked me for another chance. It's been another 6 weeks now. I'm still terrified of opening my heart back up to him. We have put the divorce on hold for now but I still have so much anger and hurt for the h*ll that he put me and my children through this last year. We are both in IC and are planning to start MC soon. I plan on keeping my apartment for who knows how long. I can't even imagine trusting him enough to move back in with him and rely on him in any way. Not only am I afaid but also my children need stability and security too. Any advice for how to proceed here??

Welcome back, Suther!

I am thrilled to see you posting...thank you for lifting up my day, sky high.

Is he still in IC? Is it weekly? How about you? Do you have access to IC through the shelter or another means?

I like your plan on staying separate and working on your marriage. Great plan. There is a lot of trust to be built, honesty to be held to, and communication needed to get to where you both can reconnect safely.

Share what you've learned about you in these last five months...how are your children doing? How's baby doing? How about a plan for your personal recovery, separate from marital recovery?

Big hugs ((((Suther))))

LA