I came upon another "Be Still" message today...

Words from the Lord through Marsha Burns:

January 18, 2006: Be still. The situations you face have caused you to be unsettled and anxious, and you are tending towards impulsiveness. But, I say to you, wait on Me. I will most certainly bring you through this troubling time, and I will strengthen, establish and settle you in My purposes as you yield to My guidance. Stop. Refocus. Be at peace, for you can trust Me absolutely, says the Lord. Ask, and I will give you wisdom and direct your steps. Do not step out in your flesh and by the power of your own good ideas to try to bring resolution to your problems. Have faith in Me, says the Lord.

nice one lady sheep
very nice...

ARK^^

Thank you, ladysheep. I'm really struggling with fleshly impulsiveness lately.

I am bumping this again..

once again..too many newly found outs BS....expecting their spouses some WS...some newly FWS to jump in there and start fixing things...

too many saying...he better do this...
she better do that....

too many...

back off...

EXPECT NOTHING.......

affairs take a long time to create and solidify...
the thought processes of seperating family life and spousal relationships enough to allow, justify and rationalize the actions of an affair...are deep and well rooted in the cranium of the WS....

to expect much marriage building from them....
to expect committment
to expect A N Y T H I N G

can be futile...
and it can be the destruction and demise of your sanity...
and we can't have that.....

here's the deal if you truly truly follow plan A and B...then it releases you from any expectations...which is why it is so very important that plan A have an end point..

plan A is ALL ABOUT giving and doing with no expectations..
it is hard...
and it can suck you dry if you let it..

but if you can look at the challenge of doing, being and saying and really release the thought of any type of return..it can be empowering and sometimes even funny..

as in..
can't wait to see the look of confusion on WS face when I say this.....when he/she expects me to say THAT...that is plan A....

find your value in the movement of Grace via plan A...

but don't bother plan Aing if you aren't planning on plan Bing..it will destroy your esteem with no end in sight..


also those of you detaching from behaviors that you don't like of WS..be very very wary that you are not just detaching without seeking out and finding actions to cherish...

if you focus solely on the negative and see and detach from that..you are setting yourself up to go through seperation and divorce....for you are removing yourself from the marriage.... without replacing yourself in to the marriage....somewhere else...

read your posts...
if it is about expectations from a WS when there is still contact...and you are still newly removed from D-day....

drop all expectations...
burdon the work yourself...

in the end it will be easier than trying to get blood from a stone...

ARK

ARK:

I hope and pray people will listen to you...

and put into PRACTICE what you are PREACHING....

ark^^,

I was gone awhile....so didn't see this when it was originally posted. It has great power and I'm so pleased and grateful to see it now. It is true in an emotional sense. It is absolutely true in a spiritual sense! And for those whose faith my be flagging....it is true also in a physical (and measurable) sense.

Wonderful post ark!

Ark,

First let me say that you always seem to know what I need to read/hear, before I know it myself...

Question for you on the above quote...and this comes up because of a post on Recovery called Expectations? by CamoKnightsWife...she is one year from DDay, I am about 6 mos from DDay...There is NC in both of our situations...I can't speak for her, but will direct you to her post...for myself, I will say that my FWS has committed to the family, but he is still not fulfilling my ENs, and meeting me halfway in terms of working on our M...We did the EN questionnaires in January but have not shared them with each other...I have mentioned this to him several times that I would like to discuss them... We never get around to do it...When I mention anything about MB, he says he will read it, but then never does...He does not want to talk about the A, wants me to get over it already...I have tried to make him feel safe in sharing his feelings/details of the A, but I am getting frustrated.

Any suggestions on how to get him to sit down with me and do the work we need to do? I have told him that he is hindering our recovery by dragging this out. I have told him that our marriage is in jeopardy...It seems to have an effect for a day but nothing changes...I feel like my expectations are too high for him right now...I don't believe it is a withdrawal issue, as he has insisted the A was only for sex, and he did not love her, and he never was going to leave his family.

mamafish..

while I certainly dont have all the answers...

I would suggest that you MAKE the time....
try doing it creatively...


get the calender out.....
clear the schedule of kid and commitments....and pick atleast 4-6 time frames in the next four to five weeks in which there is nothing but time for you and him..

make it so...

clear schedules....
make time to tackle small portions of these issues...

change your language from a language that he will use to against you..
get over it
quit asking
it was nothing...

change your language to a language of love..and offer him small doses of it at a time....

make a plan with your private calender of small small pieces of this picture...
change your language...
for example you want to communicate to him how your mind creates these images of him with the OP...and these images sometimes make you sad...

communicate this to him...
but do it in a loving way...\
and in a non threatening way..
communicate it more like a musing out loud thing...
a swan song of hope ....

I know heres a story I experienced.....
when doing visiting nurses in home I had a pt with Parkinsons...a WWII vet...met with him and wife in their home she was primary care giver....

she and he were a lovely lovely couple...
she told me a story that durning WWII he was stationed on a base in Greenland...
harsh harsh terrain...
ungodly weather...no sunlight...
the degree of mental depression these soldiers were subjected to was most likely misunderstood...and never addressed...just based on lack of sunlight alone...

their isolation
their being stationed litterally on the edge of the earth...

she said he never would talk to her about it..
told her nothing of what it was like to be stationed on the edge of the world....
but he was never the same.....either...
something was always a little sad and him not talking about it changed for always the way the two interacted..
and though they loved...
it stole some piece of their joy...
for there was period in which they were strangers...

tell him that story...make it yours...tell him you read it heard it what ever...
and end the story with you thinking the time he was in his affair is similiar to you and him being that far seperated...

that he appears to you like a stranger...and isnt it strange to feel that way about a spouse...

that for him to do what he did even as he claims just for the physical...must have made him feel bad....
and you never wanted to be shut off from him..to feel that bad...

but make it yours..this story....
that story can work a million different ways..

but mamafish..what I am saying is change your approach..dont go for the whole ball of wax...seek parts and peices...that can then be built upon..


write things on your calendar..on saturday I am going to plant a seed of getting my husband to see the value of telling me more...just a seed...

and then on monday...make a plan for something to say or do...that builds up it...

and so on....

make one day that I wont do anything but slurp him up one side and the other....


change how you communicate your need to know...and offer it to him in peices with no demands of a response...just your side of it.......and how it affects you....

plan romantic episodes...
after the kids are in bed...
bring joy into your home...

speak your pride of him
etc....

consider a plan where you plant and work for two months...at this and that..
consider at the end of two months you and he take a weekend alone...
one of communicating and loving...

mamafish..I also could not survive without the truth...
and sometimes changing the way we try to get it works...

ARK

Ark,

You are very wise...That story speaks out to me also...my H and I were basically living as strangers during his A...he and I worked opposite schedules (me-day shift Mon-Fri and he-graveshift 11 pm - 9am Thurs= Sun)...we were always apart or passing each other on the way to / from work...Many times I said he had a double life and of course he denied it....He said that he felt rejected from me and she was there and offered him the SF and affection he was missing...He felt like I didn't care about him any more...

I think your approach may work...I have been going about it in the wrong way... I have been thinking that once I knew all the answers/details, I could move on...and so I bury it inside of me and then it comes out as accusations and nagging...When we have talked and it starts to get overwhelming, he calls for a "time out" so I think that doing this bit by bit will help...

I will change my approach and make a plan, one that will take some time to carry out, but will hopefullly bring us closer...I am trying to do it too fast and too soon...I realized today that I have stopped trying to change my behavior by focusing on his behavior, and I need to stop doing that...your advice helps me to see what I can do about it....it can't be rushed through, and I can't stop working on myself and how I communicate with him....

Thanks for the suggestions...I will work up a plan and put it on the calendar...I feel much better now that I have a sense of direction...

Great post. Really appreciate it.

I ask God for a lot of things, more than once a day.
I always thank God for something at least once a day.

Today, I'm thanking Him for you, and the gifts given to you, insight, eloquence, and strength.

thank you, too, for sharing the burden

thank you moira..that is very very kind and I am touched..

ARK

Thank you ark. Sometime we need to slow down a little. I'd be interest in having you insight on my 180 + Plan A post if you don't mind.

Thanks again for this post; it is helpful. I printed it out.

Ark,

Just wanted to give you an update since I took your advice and planted a seed with my H to get to the truth...I gave it a try...and it worked...I stopped putting the focus on me,and my feelings about the A and started just listening...

We had a kids-free day and I didn't plan to even get into a discussion...I was actually just thinking we could spend some fun time together...he started talking about OW and alot of things came out about the A...I was calm and listened, asked a question here and there...but I forced myself to keep the focus on him and her, and not on how I felt about it...Previous conversations would have me say something like, "didn't you feel guilty?" or " didn't you think about me at all?" Lots of LBs. This time, I didn't give in to it...

Your approach worked...now that he knows he can talk to be safely, I know he will open up to me again...

Thanks for your advice....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

well bless your hubbies pea picken heart...

good for you mamafish...
good for you..

ARK

Mamafish,

How did this discussion begin? What did you say to get him talking?

Barkingspud,

I just read your post--sorry for the delay in my response. I only have web access at work during the week..

How did I get him to start talking? Good question...As I said in my post, I didn't even plan it, but he actually brought her up in passing...She was a coworker and he no longer works at the company. He called one of his friends that still works there and the coworker mentioned her and how she is spreading rumours about him...

That's how it started to begin with, and he was saying how screwed up she is and has to be the center of attention. He was saying alot of negative things about her and I was just listening... So he says that the A was just physical and meant nothing to him, and he said you would be amazed if you ever saw her, because she is not very attractive. He said, you are putting yourself through too much thinking about her because it wasn't all that..

So I said, well, I don't know her, so the only thing I know is what you have told me about her...All I know is that she has blond hair and is shorter than me... So he proceeds to tell me all about her looks, then about her history, etc...alot of this was just him talking, me listening, and not interrupting. I let him just talk and if there was a pause, I'd let him fill it...I was completely calm and collected...As I said above, I didn't make a single statement about ME...and my feelings (I previously did this a few times which turned into lots of tears and arguments).

Another point that I made to him was that the not knowing is worse than the knowing, and that my mind would imagine the worst when it was not necessarily how it happened. Only he could tell me the truth of what it was all about.

It was a start...It was not easy, but I felt better afterward, and I told him that...I think that I have shown him that I can talk about her in a calm manner, without making him feel guilty or upset...

Are you trying to get your WS to open up to you? It takes a while...there has been NC in our case, and he has said that he was never leaving me and the kids. I have raged at him many times and even when he would answer my questions, he would answer in a defensive way, and would get so upset that he would end the discussion...he did end this discussion also, but it was due to the timeframe...

Another suggestion that I got from another poster was to ask him to tell me his story as if he were writing a book, and then listen calmly also...that was my original plan, but he seemed to be in a talkative mood that day, and I think he wanted to get some things off his chest.

I hope that helps you...

Thank you! This story mirrors in so many ways what I feel when I look at my FWH. I don't feel the anger anymore. Now I look at him and just wonder who he is. Where did he go and why? Do I love him? I'm not sure anymore. I feel now that he is my friend, but not my husband. I am hoping that this, too, will pass. That someday in the not-so-distant future, I will feel passion again--like we had before. But how to get to that place? It is so far away . . .

Is this where you "fake it 'till you make it?" Do you try wild, passionate SF even when the thought of SF with someone who did this is revolting to you?

Ark,
Does this be still also hold true if NC has been for over a year and a half. I am just wondering the how longs there. I know I have been told basically the same thing, I am impatient. I guess that I have had high hopes that after NC was established, and withdrawl was over, that things would move a little faster from then on. It seems to be a very slow snail like ride, and even after a year and a half from NC sometimes ends up almost as bad as DDay. Do you still be still to wait for the FWS to fix thier parts, and if so how long is too long?
JE

[quote
[/quote]

Thank you! This story mirrors in so many ways what I feel when I look at my FWH. I don't feel the anger anymore. Now I look at him and just wonder who he is. Where did he go and why? Do I love him? I'm not sure anymore. I feel now that he is my friend, but not my husband. I am hoping that this, too, will pass. That someday in the not-so-distant future, I will feel passion again--like we had before. But how to get to that place? It is so far away . . .

Is this where you "fake it 'till you make it?" Do you try wild, passionate SF even when the thought of SF with someone who did this is revolting to you? [/quote]


CSJ,

I know what you mean...I don't really feel anger or hatred toward my H, but I wonder what happened to him...Shortly after DDay, when he had told me that he was afraid of losing me as his wife and also his friend, and he said that I was always his friend, I asked him, "where was my friend when you were having your A?" He answered, "Off being stupid"...

In my case, Intellectually, I can understand how and why this happened, thanks to the books SAA and HNHN...Emotionally, however, I cannot understand it...why did he do this? How could he not think of me and my feelings? I love him, but I am not sure if I am in love with him anymore...I feel love for him at times, and other times, I just feel like we are just good friends...who have SF, much more than before the A, but it is different in a lot of ways....The SF has been exciting and passionate and my H says it is better than it has been in years. He has told me that the major reason for his PA, was due to the lack of SF we were having and that he felt rejected by me as I put the kids' needs ahead of his. This is true, and I have worked hard to meet his top EN of SF since...It has taken me a while to get the OW out of my head during SF, and when he does something a bit differently or new, of course I know where he learned it, and it hurts.

As for faking it until you make it, I guess that is what I'm doing in a way...You do need to try to meet the SF need, and in my case, it is a way for me to feel close to my H...When he gets his SF need met, he meets mine, and then meets my needs for affection and attention...We are turning around our pattern pre-A, which was like a vicious cycle - he was not communicating with me, so I withdrew from him sexually and the less he communicated with me, the more I withdrew...he felt rejected, and stopped approaching me...then I withdrew further...

The SF will not be the same as it was "before", but it can be better...You need to show your H that sex and love are intertwined and that if you have both, the SF can be unbelievable...