I've been married for 7 years and our relationship has been stuck at the same state for over 3-4 years. It has gotten progressively worse after the birth of our first child ... our sex life has really plumetted ... only maybe once a month ... maybe. But we do talk to each other ... let's just say we're more like roommates.

I've taken some intiative over the years by having "family" meetings to discuss my feelings, buying books, suggesting weekends alone ... he seems to agree about the state of our relationship and the suggestions for improvement ... BUT ...

I'm the only one that seems to be affected by it. I've been pretty miserable, unhappy and sometimes depressed. I've expressed these feelings to him and he sympathizes (w/ sad looks and hopes that I'll feel better), but that's it. I pretty much have learned to get over it on my own.

I've written him letters, suggesting that we get counseling and he's responded that he's "open to it". But when I found a counselor, he wanted [me] to research which insurance plans he accepted and other stuff. I learned that researching the perfect counselor (complete with the right insurance plans and references) was pretty much up to me. So I stopped looking into it.

Among other things, I've taken the initiative on financial matters, child rearing issues, household clutter etc. He usually agrees and then it's pretty much up to me to implement.

We have entirely different conflict resolution styles. He avoids it ... at all cost ... by withdrawing/stonewalling or refusing to engage. I usually like to approach conflict 'head on' and tackle whatever is ailing me. If something is bothering him, his response is "I'm fine." ... even if CLEARLY he is not.

However, he does help out with our child and he's not immune to housework, he's pleasant to be around and we do share a few laughs ... in that regard, he's perfect.


So ... I can't figure out exactly why I'm so unhappy. And I actually feel guilty for being so unhappy. I've entertained the thought of separation, thinking that perhaps absence would engage us more and force us to deal with the problem(s). I've "shaken" thoughts of infidelity ... although the thought of any engaging activity seems more pleasant than inaction in my life right now. But I'm not willing to go down that path.

Any thoughts? Advice? Feedback? Please Help.

Thanks in advance.

Hello StillStuck,

Welcome to MB. I can understand what you are going through because I have been going through the same thing. However, my W is your H. It is frustrating. I have been posting at MB for almost two years now and have not been able to improve my M much during this time. I feel that the key is both people must be motivated to work on the M or all of your efforts will be a bunch of wasted energy. Along with the fact that you can only choose to change yourself and it is up to your partner to want to change or do things for you such as ENs, this will be a very frustrating time for you. Take the time to look into all the books you can on this site. They are helpful. The people here are also very helpful. Just keep one thing in the back of your mind. MB can be a wonderful thing for you and your M, however, everyone is different and MB is not all things to all people.

Good luck with your M. I truely feel for you and the position you are in.

Take Care,

EL

EL, Thanks for the words of encouragement. This is a very frustrating situation. I will look into the books as well. Over the past 2 years, I've read many of the materials on the website and have tried to incorporate the tips in our M, but I'm not making any progress and I'm exhausted from reading and trying, reading and trying ... I do feel like I'm wasting my time.

Thanks Again.

Yeah, it feels like you're wasting your time. We all do sometimes, and who knows, in time some of us find out we were wasting our time, and others' situations turn around. Call the therapist and find out what insurance he will take. If 5 minutes would get you on track to save your marriage, why not?

Stuck, I understand why you didn't want to do all the research and arrangements for the MC counselor. I did it and felt responsible for the outcome. Also, where was my H's interest?

I'm working on ways I've betrayed myself, which ties into Harley's Taker mode. Maybe this was a line you didn't want to cross because of this?

I would suggest individual counseling. You can research and choose for yourself. You said you're unhappy, feel guilty for it, and the alternatives you're looking at now is as severe as separation. How about IC, for now?

I'm not saying you're messed up. You sound like you've tried to get your H to engage, meet your ENs and you're frustrated, definitely in Taker mode because you feel your Giver has betrayed you. Why not find out why?

I wanted to drop in and say this because I'm a confronter (like you) and married a conflict avoider (throw in passive aggressive one...agrees to something and does another). There's a reason for this. You chose to learn a really big lesson. IC is a great way to get there.

Just wanted you to know you're not alone, you don't have to feel exhausted, used, frustrated or out of love. There's a lot of hope. We're having our 17th anniversary next month. I don't want you to see what the next ten years can feel like without a little personal TLC!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Thanks for the advice LA.

I will definitely look into IC asap. By IC, I'm assuming you mean Individual Counseling? I'm still a newbie, trying to decipher the acronyms <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am very frustrated. I've seriously considered separation to remove myself from the situation ... hoping that it would bring me clarity that I've been unable to gain on my own. But even that is complication, we have a toddler and I don't want to cause her grief. Also, I haven't discussed separation with H ... I have discussed my feelings with him ... but I can guarantee that if I mention separation, he'll look at me like I have 3 eyes. I don't think he understands how miserable I feel ... even though we've been talking about the same issues for years.

He's NEVER expressed an issue with our relationship the entire time we've been together (over 12 years, married for 7). Not once. I'm always the one 'bringing up issues' ... kinda makes me feel like I'm constantly causing the man grief ... but I'm not good at suppressing my feelings ... I've tried, but it makes me miserable. And I don't even complain a lot because he seems so overwhelmed by emotions ... I tend to avoid emotional discussions with him. I hardly ever get him to engage in these discussions.

I'm exhausted.

Thanks again. I really appreciate the feedback.

Thanks for the reply ears_open. I'm going to look into some IC and see where that takes me. Ironically, when I 1st started to feel unhappy in my M ... years ago ... I did IC ... I told him I was in IC and he never asked me why.

I revealed a few 'non-threatening' issues to him ... he'd shut down if I talked about any IC involving the two of us .... so I mentioned some old family issues and a general 'unhappiness' claim. He never inquired about my counseling sessions again.

Yes, IC as individual counseling.

Sounds like you both are locked into a dizzying dance and you really are frustrated. At the bottom of your frustration, is it because you're trying to make someone do something you feel you need them to do?

That is heck in a handbasket. I know. Been there. Felt that.

What is non-threatening to you may not be to him. You said you considered separation to bring yourself clarity. Why would that help? Because you keep reacting to his non-reaction? Remove the non-reaction, get clarity?

Or because separating would finally bring home to him how unhappy you really are? You're feeling unheard, your pain and anger unacknowledged. You feel disrespected. Love means he should step up to the plate?

All of these are within your power for yourself. Could you share with us your list of what you want fixed? Call it a plumber's list. Tell us what you want and how you feel.

We're here and you aren't alone or crazy.

LA

Stillstuck2006,hi & welcome to MB.

As YOU are the one here, YOU are the one who can Activate Change.

Observations:

1. Your Sex Life - Bite the bullet girl & up the ante, it takes two definitely, so will you persue him often enough & with enough passion so he truly feels desired by you. --- Yeah there are a heap of excuses & fear of rejection, Honey if you want an active sex life with your husband you have to get Pro-active too.

2. Your husband AGREES with YOU,sympathises with you & is willing to follow YOUR Suggestions. Which you DO NOT follow through on because you feel it is too much effort on your part??? To what organise a MC that meets insurance criteria. Come on if you wanted it you'd make it happen. So ask yourself what's really stopping YOU???

3. Feelings - ONLY YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW YOU FEEL, feelings are fickle, they are fleeting. Thoughts & actions are decision based. Are you holding your husband responsible for your feelings? Is that being honest & responsible for your self? Happiness comes from within you, not from other people.

4. Seperation from what I've read here does not bond a couple or bring them closer when the problem seems to be communication styles.

Facts:
1. You have a husband who seems willing to do anything you suggest.

2. He listens, he understands, he sympathises. WOW!

3. You have children.

4. Your husband pulls his weight on the domestic level.

Thoughts:

Your husband may not like your style of conflict resolution. Do you have the same ole same ole discussion that ends up with the same ole routine?

Check out how to have a discussion on the home pages here.

Are you living in the present or dragging up stuff that happened years ago?

You may actually not be OPEN to your husband, try finding good in him, something simple like tell him one honest good thing about himself each day.

Organise Marriage Counselling anyway & go!

Caution on individual counselling, some are fantastic others are absolutely the biggest excuse to exit a marriage.

I would suggest you sit down for yourself & earnestly map out where you would like to be in 5 or 10 years & exactly how you would hope to achieve that.

I found my own Husband would shut down when relationship talk came up because all he'd hear was blah, blah, blah you bad basket, blah, blah, if you did abc I'd be better... there comes a point when I finally recognised it was all in the approach & my own attitude towards being open - that is asking him for his help, his opinions, his suggestions - if it was a REAL issue, not just a whim.

Other Thoughts: That YOU CAN DO!

1) Get a babbysitter & plan regualar dates.
2) Have fun with your husband - this is not scientific, just do it, organise that you watch a movie, throw some suds at him as you wash up, ahhhh, surprise him tell him your going commando while out walking with him, wake him up with a bj, whatever, just remember to enjoy each other as two married adults should. Bring back the spark.
3) Go for a week, even 2 if you can without once 'nagging' yes ask for help, involve him, but for 2 weeks solid promise yourself you will NOT tell this grown man who loves you dearly what to do. Redirect your energy into loving him.
4) Surprise yourself, pamper yourself too. Every girl needs her me time, that could be the luxury bath, or the hairdressers. It could be an indulgent box of choccies in bed with hubby. Whatever floats your boat. Plan it & do it, with calm & loving thoughts.

Just my thoughts for the moment.

The best personal councillor I ever visited told me to burn all those books & start realising I had a man who wanted to with me by his choice, that it was up to me to get on with living happily.

Best wishes Ktulu.

Some people need specifics when relating to your husband I would suggest you take full responsiblity for your feelings.

When you tell him you are unhappy, be FULLY responsible for what is & is not acceptable to you.

BE HONEST WITH HIM. Do NOT BLAME HIM. This is about YOU!

I would suggest you look at symc website there is a fabulous discussion on HEALs - old hurts & overcoming their current impact & compassionate honesty. Wow they are brilliant.

I do understand you, please don't be offended at my straightness in response, I have battled internally for a long time whether to walk away or stay (& fight). I did not want to grow old in the same way I was feeling.

Retrouvaille did help a lot. More than I appreciated at the time.

You sound on the cusp of throwing something potentially wonderful away.

It looks as if you simple are mis communicating & trying not to get hurt. "the 5 love languages" is a book often recommended here, I have not read it, but it does seem appropriate in what you have described.

Best wishes Ktulu

LovingAnyway,

Thanks again for your reply. I think that my idea re: separation was that it would highlight ... to him ... how unhappy I really am and force us both to 'put up or shut up' and finally make this a priority. I feel like the day-to-day grind (work, household duties, child rearing responsiblities etc.) always pushes this issue to the back burner. We've really neglected 'US' in the past 3-4 years by focusing a lot on work and more recently on work and our toddler.

After these little discussions, nothing happens. I feel great during the discussion because I feel like we're finally engaging with each other ... and I also feel more intimate when we talk about our thoughts on a deeper level.

Also, I will admit that part of my frustration is because I can't control his reactions. I guess that the control freak in me ... but I really wish that he would:

1. Initiate more outings alone
2. Be more open about his feelings (I couldn't be the only one with feelings)
3. Take the lead in more the household decisions

That's a start. I've already talked to him about wanting to get away for a weekend alone. He agreed. Birthday passed. Mother's Day passed. Anniversary came and went. 2 days before each holiday he asks me if I made those reservations. Then he gets stressed on my birthday or Mother's Day because he didn't do anything ... moping around the house throwing a pity party ... so I usually say something like "don't worry about it honey. We can just do something aroudn the house." But for once, I would like to be wined and dined a bit.

I feel like I've always protected his feelings by burying mine. Until recently, have I felt comfortable enough to bring some of these issues to the forefront ... but he shuts down ... so I "sugar coat" the issue and repackage it as something more "friendly" to his emotions. I'm exhausted.

I feel like an old maid. And I'm hardly that old. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ktulu,

Thanks for your candid response ... I really do appreciate the direct feedback.

I realize that I'm the one that can Activate Change. But part of me feels like if I'm the only one putting forth an effort ... is the effort really worth it? Since, I've already discussed my feeling about our relationship ... several times ... I don't understand the inaction on his part. I've still been working on it ... but I will admit that I've downgraded my efforts. I'm feeling like if my husband told me he wasn't happy and would like to spend more time alone etc. ... I would do what I could to contribute to the rebuilding of the relationship. Am I wrong for feeling this way?

My H and I have had these discussions many times over the past 3-4 years. They always go well because we are great friends. But afterwards ... nothing happens ... we go back to the way things were and I continue to research ways to make it better.

I have planned some alone weekends. I've also asked to go somewhere alone for my birthday ... he forgot and we ended up sitting around the house like we do every year for birthdays, holidays and new year's. It's the same ole, same ole routine.

I feel like I'm being taken for granted. Like he's saying "sure, she's a bit unhappy, but she'll get over it because she's not going anywhere."

Ktulu,

Thanks Again. I appreciate your straight-forward responses. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't blame him. At least I don't intend to ... actually ... I probably do blame him for not working as hard as I am on our marriage. I already feel like a lot of the household decisions are deferred to me ... I don't want work this hard on a relationship by myself.

But I feel like I'm on the cupse of throwing something 'potentially wonderful away'. I also feel that if I stay I'm going to be miserable and/or exhausted from the constant effort of not throwing something 'potentially wonderful away'. I don't want to get older, and older and older ... feeling the same way I felt 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15 years ago.

Thanks for the book and website suggestions. I will definitely check them out.

"Also, I will admit that part of my frustration is because I can't control his reactions. I guess that the control freak in me ... but I really wish that he would:"

You admit you can't control him. That you have a control freak in you. Then you go back to focusing on what he isn't doing. Have you heard the term crazy-making?

This is you doing this to you. No one else.

"I don't blame him. At least I don't intend to ... actually ... I probably do blame him..."

Again, you say you don't then you say you do. Self-honesty is necessary here. What's your part? Where does your power end?

Household decision are deferred to you, but you don't want...

What are your choices? If you can't control him, then he can't control you, correct? What do you choose and why?

LA

>>This is you doing this to you. No one else.

I agree.

>>What's your part? Where does your power end?

My part is that I need to realize that i'm in this situation because of my own choices, not because of his actions. I understand this. I guess it was easy for me to say "if he would just ... then I wouldn't feel like this blah, blah".

I realize that I can't control him, but I would like him to meet me halfway ... ex: I've talked to him about assisting w/ the household decisions more often ... he always agrees ... then I'll have to make decisions anyway because of his inaction (i.e. things aren't getting done). The same goes for relationship issues ... I actually don't try to control him ... I've had romantic sit down dinners to discuss family issues together ... they always work well. But AFTER the meeting is when things fall apart. I'll be ready to take initiative and make things happen and he goes back to business as usual and then I find myself feeling the same way weeks later.

I'm just tired of dealing with it. I realize that I can't control him, but i can't help but feel frustrated that we can't seem to 'take it to the next level'. I feel stuck and it makes me feel like giving up.

Thanks again for your feedback; it's really helpful to get outside insight.

I know you're tired. I was tired, too, from looping around and around, coming back to where I started, feeling like I had tried everything and didn't get the results I wanted.

It will wear a person out.

That's why I was directing you to stop looping. You focus on him, what he doesn't do, how he doesn't meet your expectations; you even give the example of involving him on family decisions when you KNOW he will not take action on them. Hence, defers family decisions to you. I hear you say, "I can't get him to participate the way I want him to." Then you say, yeah, I know I can't control him...

but...

I'm directing you back to yourself. You do not accept the reality that he agrees and then does not follow through. The reality is, he does this, you know he does this, and you continue to attempt to change him. Make him meet you halfway. Your expectation...of anyone who is your spouse.

"I'll have to make decisions anyway" Have to? What happens if a decision doesn't get made? What are the consequences? Alternatively, why don't you make the decisions and leave him out?

You are living with a passive aggressive person. That's his thing--you didn't cause it, can't control or cure it. Yes you keep attempting all these things. Separate from romantic dinners for family issues (which you believe go well because you get to say your feelings, discuss family matters, have your agenda and execute it--but afterwards, you don't get your expectations met and it's dismal), are you being true to yourself? Are you stating your truths?

"I feel anger when you say you're going to do something and you don't." Doesn't take a family meeting. Takes a daily effort.

"I feel overburdened because I take on all the management of our marriage."

"When I don't hear you saying your thoughts and feelings, then I feel very disconnected from you." "I'm hurting and I need your help."

There's a puddle we fall into in believing what a marriage should look like, and then plug in the spouse we have, find them wanting, and believe another spouse plugged in would get us what we want. What you forget to factor in is you, the other half, and what you are doing contributes. So people make another marriage and have the same problems, after destroying lives, and go, well, how about that! Then you ARE older and older and doing/feeling the same stuff different day, different partner.

What looks like a good choice to you?

Do you want to change your H or understand and accept him? He can only change himself. I wanted you to look at what you are doing, your part, within only your power, at how honest you are with yourself, what resentments you create and hold against him; not the mechanics of your life.

And why you say you believe one thing and do another. That would be exhausting, too.

LA

I can only let you know there are others in your situation. I feel very much like you do. I'm married to a good man, but our relationship is suffering. Keep us posted, please.

LovingAnyway,

Thanks for the valuable insight. I have a lot to think about. I agree that I need to focus on myself and how I've contributed to my current situation. I also need to get real about what's ailing me, I think I tend to focus on the little issues that are easier for me to discuss with him. I'm not being true to myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Re: decision making
I have actually ... in the past ... decided to just make the decisions that need to be made and leave him out. But I ALWAYS end up resenting him for it.

>>"I feel overburdened because I take on all the management of our marriage."

I like this wording ... this is part of my issue with our relationship.

>> I wanted you to look at what you are doing, your part, within only your power, at how honest you are with yourself, what resentments you create and hold against him; not the mechanics of your life.

I'm going to sit back really think about this. I can totally accept that I've gotten myself in this situation. Now if I can figure out how to get out of it. I think my fear is ... since I can't control him (I do get it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) .. that I either need to live with the dynamics of our relationship the way it is today or leave ... and I'm not pleased with either of those choices.

Frustrated,

I will keep you posted. I see you're a newbie like me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ... I've been lurking on this site for a while ... there's some valuable insight on here.

I remember when my H and I were engaged, we were laughing at our relatives that said "marriage is hard" ... "it's no walk in the park" ... blah, blah, blah, ... we felt that since we were best friends and had been together for 5 years, it would be a walk in park for us ... and that they were just disfunctional. LOL! Needless to say, I was young and naive.

Best of luck to you as well. When you feel like sharing your story, please do.

"But I ALWAYS end up resenting him for it."

So I'm understanding then that you know that you choose to resent. You make your own resentments. One of your boundaries could be to not do that which you will resent another for.

Btw, what you wrote to Frustrated...my H and I thought the same way! Do not despair. When people said, "Marriage is such hard work" we would laugh and say, "It's a piece of cake!" That was before the destruction. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Now we nurture our marriage like a precious being, separate from ourselves. I don't consider it work, per se, but it takes lots of thoughts and actions.

You are feeling very boxed in and cornered. You see your alternatives as just two--go or stay and eat it. What if I promised you that staying can be a feast of the senses, full of love and good stuff?

I'm not just saying look at all the bad stuff you've done, that's how you got here. But examing your beliefs, your patterns, how true to stay to yourself, you might begin to uncover why you feel despair with your marriage. That's valuable information, because if you leave, you'll recreate it down the line. You take "you" with you.

LA

P.S. Not only having gotten yourself into this situation, but you have for a reason. That's essential to the statement. Another person also created this environment with you, but you only have control over your part of it. And you chose that person for a life reason, not a character one.