Nothing like exposure with the OM. I say directly tell the OM about the std.

do it!

blow it up.

remember friend...affairs hate the light...they thrive in the dark stinky places...kinda like mold and mildew...lmao!

I just got a map of the location of his house from the BT web site, saved it and emailed it to him.

I sent him an email a bit earlier telling him that I am going to take out an ad in his local paper warning all women (or men for that matter) that he is a willing donor of HPV so nobody should have unprotected sex with him. I will try his mother and start calling his friends in just a few minutes.

Whoa, Traicionado! Good for you, and good luck.

Well latest is that I just found a discrepancy of about 50 USD in the cash. She was using non-receipted expenses to extract cash. I found out the difference by calling the maid. I tried to call my WW but she was not at home and I thought I had a perfect opportunity to catch her off guard so I went home and waited (the maid was working today too). When she got in, I searched everywhere for the phone cards and could find nothing. She admits she used the money to buy the cards but says she used them all up. I doubt that. I think she bought 3 cards to have spares in case I accidentally found one. Regardless, I asked her if she had talked to the OM today and she said no. I told her that makes sense because otherwise she would know that I had spoken to his father. She got furious and asked why I had to bring his family into it. I reminded her that she had brought her family into it so had no right to talk. I told her that I had found out a lot of interesting facts but that she and I were going to review her written words to see what all the OM had told her and then we would both call his father and ask about each point and see what was true and what was a lie. She asked for an example and I did tell her about the fact that his mother was younger - not 4 years older - than his father. She screamed that she had already told me that and I said that her own written words would contradict that statement. I told her that sooner or later she would realize that he had lied and manipulated to get what he wanted but I also knew I could not expect her to believe me.

I had to go back to work but we are due for another fight in about an hour or so. I have also been calling his friends and telling them about the STD.

You are reading the Plan A stuff, right? It includes no angry outbursts or disrespectful judgments, and no scheduling fights.

Your wife is still in the fantasy stage, and the things you are doing are going to make her cling more to it.

As you see, you can make it difficult for her to contact him, but not impossible.

Read up on Plan A. This behavior definately not in Plan A.

Honestly I don’t see much advnatage in phoning OM friends. It might even allow him to pass you off as a raving lunatic and that in turn might discourage OM parents from interceeding on your behalf.

OK – so you possibl took some steps backwards. No big ddeal.

I think we have reached Plan B. I got her suitcases out. She basically admits that she will not stop calling given the opportunity. I also did try to get her to call the father with me. She refused. I saw strange looks on her face last night. I wish I could explain it all. I printed off and showed her what all she had said in the past that she was now denying. She initially looked confused but then she got this strange look in her eyes (at least one I have never seen) and a strange voice and she told me she had invented those things all by herself and she knew what was true and what was not.

I would not let her sleep in the bed last night. I just don't see any choice. She cannot be trusted. She is taking money to feed her habit. I have no idea what she will try next but I am sure she will not stop.

Bigger,

I thought one of the tenets of Plan A was that NC was a must. She absolutely refuses NC. Are you suggesting I proceed with Plan A even though she is lying, cheating and stealing to maintain contact? If I cut her off one way, how far will she escalate? Before I left the house this AM, I disabled the internet, disconnected our telephone and took the car. That will still not dissuade her. She is a strong and determined woman. We live in a place with a perimeter of 13.5 Km. Inside that place are about 7000 families and any and all conveniences. She can buy whatever she needs and do what she wants with just a short walk from the house. It is 3 Km to her nearest source of supply for phone cards. She jogs 5 or 6 Km daily so it is "on her way". There are public phones every 500 meters or less.

On a separate note, I did make a few calls to family and friends yesterday. I did send the OM a couple of emails. I have heard nothing back as of yet. Not that I should.

Well, if one of the tenets of Plan A was absolute NC, then 99.9% (more like 100%) would not be "technically" in Plan A, given the fact that it is a tool specifically designed to BREAK UP AN AFFAIR.

I think is defintely being suggeste that you continue to Plan A even though she is "lying, cheating and stealing to maintain contact". Sounds tough no doubt. Many people still are successful doing Plan A despite this.

Regardless of what you do with that, please see your MD for a complete STD workup (even though this Herpes was already found). Your marriage may or may not be recovered, but you have a RESPONSIBILITY to yourself to recover yourself and protect yourself physically here.

They did take two vials of blood and sent them to the USA and tested for every STD known. All were negative except HPV. They specifically tested for HIV because that is the one big no-no here. I would have lost my job and my visa. I will still go back again for another HIV test but shouldn't I wait a few months? I thought HIV might not show up right away sometimes. When our visas are renewed, we have to get checked for the same STD's anyway although they will not screen for HPV for a visa. Expats among expats is admittedly low risk. If an expat mixes with a local, anything is at risk. There is an extremely high rate of STD here in the country in spite of it's religious slant.

Well, that is all good news for you.

I am happy that you have had such screening.

Ideally your HIV tests should be 6 months apart (assuming no NEW exposures) to ensure Negativity, although many people believe that 2 negative tests 3 months apart will be satisfactory

Lem

I went home at lunch. She is making a special dinner. We did not talk much but the suitcases are still not packed. Maybe we will survive this ourburst. Maybe it was also good that I had it. I don't want to come off wrongly here but sometimes I feel like I am being led into certain actions. I won't go any further than that. You either know what I mean or don't. I will know more later and tomorrow. She made not one single complaint and I discovered she had walked my 4 yr old to school (2 Km) in a stroller. It was 9C here at the time so I am sure she was cold.

Please be patient with me. I only recently found this site so I have been flying solo for months. I did not understand what I was up against. When I heard that voice come out of her last night, it chilled my blood. I had never met that person before.

I will try to get back to Plan A this weekend (and promise to stay on it) if that appears hopeful. I'll report back. I have to be careful, I think, because I can't come across as vacilating either. The advantage, if you can call it that, is that part of me thinks her leaving may be the best solution so, if she does go, I can deal with that. It also weakens her position and I think it helps us when she is aware of that.

I am no Plan A specialist. Far from it. I have read a lot of MB material and think some of it is very good. Other stuff not as appropriate. I think that might be due to differences in culture – me being in Scandinavia and the MB material rather based to American culture. Reading the stories here on MB has convinced me that MB is a great way to go to save marriages.

There are others here who have immense wisdom and experience and I sincerely hope they will chime in now. Some of them have already given support and I would take more notice of them than me.

I have another way of contacting you and I will send you suggestions that way. Some of them might be non MB material. MB is a good way and it is the way recommended and supported on this board but it in not fail-safe or guaranteed.

This suggestion is probably in accordance with MB. Meet your WW emotional needs. This is tough but if she is to end the affair she will mourn. Her emotional needs are then going to revolve around greif and sorrow at loosing OM. Can you meet her needs regarding this? It requires you to be her friend more than her lover or husband.

And hey! Keep one thing in mind: Sometimes we will scold you and be tough but as long as you get a reaction from us it means we care.

Just an update:

We did have a talk on day 2 of the "move out" preps. It was more logistical - where to go, when, how to talk to kids, etc. We talked about D. Did she need that immediately or could wait a few months, etc? I reiterated that, once out the door, there was never any turning back. I asked what plans they had made - were they going to get married straight away, live together for a short time and then do it, etc. She was shocked. They apparently have discussed nothing about plans. She had no idea what they were going to do and this seemed to surprise her. She felt that he just wanted to live together but was not sure. When I mentioned that we needed to call her parents and tell them what was going on, she asked that we wait.

Today I talked to her again and told her that I still loved her but that it was not practical to try to maintain a marriage and an A at the same time. It was simply not "normal" and a bad example for the kids. She agreed that something had to change and said that eventually she knew the calls had to stop one way or the other. Their relationship simply could not work by phone. Sooner or later he would get bored and find someone else and she was not ready to leave and go to him. She said she wanted to stay here. She tried to make some apologies for the A and hurting me but I said we did not need to talk about any of that so we stopped.

She said that after we had gotten here and before the A that she got into a depression and still felt depressed. We talked about therapy and I think she is interested. I told her that whether we stayed together or separated, she needed to get help for the depression.

I explained to her why I had to be so strict with the cash. I knew if she had any opportunity at all, she would immediately get on the phone. She agreed that she would likely do that and said she was happy she had no cash because maybe that would help her stop. I told her that I would try to give us time and try to work things out but that I would do everything I could to stop the calls. I said she was a smart girl and would find ways to make them but it would not be with my help.

I also reminded her that she can stay if that is her choice but she can change her mind at any time. She is not trapped here. All she has to do is say the word and we will get her on a plane.

It is not her words (which I don't believe 100% ever any more) but her actions that tell me she really wants to stay. Maybe just for the girls but maybe there is something more. I think maintaining the fantasy and the A is safe by phone (or at least was). Acting on it scares her.

We played tennis and then ran together 7K and then came home and worked at the house. Today we plan to do the same and also have a family picnic.

A lot of the her conversation yesterday was about longer term plans. What will we do this summer? When to get the older girl a quad (she almost bought one yesterday). I bought a golf cart from a neighbor and she is planning what color she wants to paint it. She wants zebra stripes and is thinking about seat covers. Part of that is just what she does. I think it is a distraction for her.

Anyway, no signs of leaving. She says she wants to stay by her choice. I am quickly working back to plan A and will stay there. Sorry for my outburt.

I will say that my outburst might have had a positive effect. I think it is the first time in a while and maybe the first time ever that she had to start thinking about the reality of her leaving and its implications. It scared her. Maybe that will backfire some day.

The OM, friends and family seem to have gone underground. I am not through with my plans there but that will be done without the WW knowing anything about it. I am going to do a lot more digging and see what turns up. If I find out he knew about the HPV prior to the A, I will see what legal action I can take against him.

Sounds like you are doing well. I have high hopes for your marriage. Often when the A goes on and on, it cements their relationship, and they get the courage to leave the marriage. Having the OM leave was a good move. Talking on the phone is not the same as in person, although it still is not good.

Rest up and get ready to meet any of her EN's that you can. And I do hope she will get some therapy or anti-D's.

Hang in there, you're doing just fine.

Right now job one is plan A. If there are more calls, I will ignore them. I do want her to try therapy so will pursue that and think it will happen.

I am working hard on fixing the things about me that I know need to be fixed. I think I have already come a long way. I am not doing that necessarily for her either. I am doing it because it is what I should do anyway.

I do know that one of our mistakes was language. I speak hers much better than she speaks mine so we always spoke hers at home. We also wanted the girls to have that as their first language because they would pick up English in school. Even so, as well as I speak her language, talking about feelings, emotions, etc. requires a lot of vocabulary that I just don't have - so we just did not talk about those things. Now whenever I need to, I tell her what I want to say in English and she answers in Spanish. I know it is far more complicated than just language but I can tell you it was a factor.

Great job. Think you are on the right track. Although not out of the woods at least the trees are thinning.

There are many potential traps ahead. You would not be the first to experience false recovery. Use your ability to be clear headed and analytical to face those threats.

Now you will be entering a really hard phase. Even if we give your WW the benefit of doubt withdrawal will be very hard. I think now it is very important to be her friend and accept the pain her symptoms of withdrawal might cause you.

I suggest you discuss this with her. She has said she wants to stay. That means she has to do her best to keep NC. So... let her know that if she feels a need to call she can tell you (and should tell you). You will not be judgmental or angry but will do all you can to help her through her urge. It’s like AA – when tempted other AA partners come and sit with you. Don’t judge you or blame you. Just support you until you get over the need.

I also think that it is very important for both the WS and BS to realize two things about reconciliation:

The first is that the purpose of reconciliation is not only to recover from the affair. The end-goal must be to improve the marriage to the point it is affair-proof. This goal is not attained by just coping or sweeping issues under the rug. The MB program is a great tool to guide you two on that path.

The second thing is that recovery takes a long time. Eventually WW needs and urges to phone OM will fade. Eventually you will not see images of OM and WW in your head. Eventually the triggers will fade. But for the next two years things will be tough. You both need to be aware of this and be ready to accept and handle the pain both of you will feel.

Just an update now that the weekend is over. Thursday night was the night where I carefully explained the consequences and timeline of not breaking off the A. I am convinced she is out of money for cards too so has no ability to jump on the phone. I will give her access to our home phone and the internet so she can contact (without my permission). I don't think she will immediately do that but might. I think I am doing that as a safety valve in case she is about to blow. I think it would also not be the same for her. Part of the A seems to be the secrecy and deception.

Anyway, yesterday things were friendly but cool. I did not put any pressure on her and gave her space. My gut feeling is that she was having some withdrawal. I think she is struggling with NC and this is the first time it struck home. Maybe. That is my perception.

She cleaned the house top to bottom. Any ideas what that means? I have to say it was dirty and the maid doesn't come for two days but it was more than just "tidying up". She even washed the garage floor (it was dirty too). We rearranged it together so we can fit the golf cart. We had to make a compromise and had our picnic at the older girl's soccer practice. We kept our distance until it got so cold that I held her so I could block the wind for her.

We all sat and watched a DVD the girls wanted to see (Robots) and we held hands. We just spoke very little throughout the day even though we did speak some. All friendly enough.

I promise that, if she breaks NC, I will not mention it again. I also think she will call again although in her current pattern, I think it will be a week or so. I did tell her that I had called the OM's father and emailed the OM and left voice mails with the mother and some of his friends. I did not tell her the nature of that and I assured her that I would not cause him any physical harm but that he had attacked my family and my two daughters. Regardless of whether my WW left for him or stayed, he needed to see that there would be consequences for his actions. I owed that to my daughters. That may have been a mistake but I did it because, the next time they talk, I am sure it will come up and I did not want it to be a surprise to her. BTW, I mentioned earlier that I am not through with the OM but will not let the WW know anything about it. What I mean is that I did want her to know about the initial contact just so she would hear it from me. She will NOT know about my future plans for him (and nothing illegal I assure you). I am just wanting to make the affair more complicated for him. It is easy to call her and profess undying love when he has nothing to lose.

The other thing that we agreed to yesterday was that she wants to go to a psychiatrist for the depression. I will work on that today. She seemed to like the idea. I told her that whether we stayed together or split, in neither case is depression tolerable for her. On the other hand the MC is out for the foreseeable future. I told her that it was pointless until she is committed to R and the MC had told me that herself (true) before we went for repat.

I am in this for the long haul. I have read books, read this site and I know there is no easy fix. I have to deny myself, deny my pain, bury my feelings and emotions for the sake of the marriage and I think I am now getting enough strength to do that with all your help.

When she was dating 12 years ago, her boyfriend cheated on her so she says she knows what I am going through. She is clueless. I never let her drag me into that conversation. I just tell her that I do feel pain and have been hurt but that it is not important for us to discuss. We cannot change what has happened so need to go forward. I remind her that I still love her - albeit not as strongly as before - and that is what allows me to continue to try to resolve this.

She is not up yet but my goal is to go full tilt plan A today. I will let you know how things are going. It will be interesting to see what develops when she does talk to the OM next. It could go either way (or at least I am preparing myself for that).

Anyway, whether I have done good, bad or somewhere in between, that is where we are right now.

I keep forgetting she is from a different country. That may have a bearing on things. I wonder what the mores there are like when a woman cheats?

Sounds like you are doing good. If she ever gets into the no contact mode, withdrawal should be fairly quick.

I think the cleaning thing is very healthy. That is what I do when things are bothering me. Very therapeutic.

Believer,

Thanks for the comment about therapeutic cleaning. At least I won't mull that over all day. These reality checks really are giving me strength.

In her culture, it is just accepted that men will cheat. The women don't like it but there is little they can do about it.

Women, on the other hand, are expected to be saints. If her A is widely known, she will be a pariah. I am the one that told her (twin) sister early on because I wanted to expose her. I also thought the sister could help her (not us necessarily) but that was naive. Eventually my WW told her mother even though we advised her not to. We just got back from a repat in Mexico with her family. Not much was discussed among them but both the sister and mother each had individual chats with her. The sister told her that she had made a mistake and there was no way to sugar coat it. If she didn't like the marriage, she should have gotten a D. The mother went much further. Basically if my WW runs off with OM, she will be dead to her family and will never be able to speak to or see them again.

While we were there, her father came to visit for two weeks (MIL and FIL divorced 14 years ago and never have passed a word between them since). She told me before he came that she would confess all to him but that never happened. She does not want him to know anything.

She is afraid of the stigma I am sure. Her family is high priority for her and she does not want to lose them. I believe that there is a part of her too that knows what she did is wrong according to her belief system. Being from Mexico she is obviously catholic and she refuses to go to confession. Some day she will need to do that if only for her sanity. (I am not catholic BTW and see no benefit of confession to a priest). I think she needs to do that because it is so much a part of what she believes.

She has become something she does not understand. FWIW, in case I never mentioned it, her father openly cheated on the mother on their wedding night and continued the practice for 18 years. He was almost never in the house day or night.

Regardless, she is a woman torn in half. It cannot be easy for her. I want her go get into therapy. She needs to heal that rift and be healthy regardless of what happens to the M. If not, I think her life will spin hopelessly out of control and she will have no support group to fall back on.

If WW leaves for OM, it will likely kill her mother and that is no exaggeration. I believe that the MIL would not survive 3 months. That also keeps me in this because I love my MIL with my soul and would give my life for her without question. Is that crazy? I have never known a better woman.

I am doing this for my WW, children and MIL. It seems I am doing this for everyone but me. I stopped thinking about me a short while back and think I will someday have to deal with that but first things first. Just prioritizing my battles. I have no idea whether we will R or D. It is not in my hands entirely. I want to make every effort for R and don't want to just give up even though there are hours when I think I want nothing else. As long as she SAYS she want to R, I will slog away.