I don't know if it is living in California or what, but I have been acquainted with a gang of ECM's. One was one of our renters, one guy I worked with, one is my BIL, and one was my best friend's dad.

The thing that I noticed is that these guys appear to be quite normal - nice looking, pleasant, etc. I still can't believe my friend at work is one, but I saw his picture on the website, so I guess it is true.

This ECM is the first "high class" one we have met....that we know of. Most of them have looked kind of scary and weird, more like the typical perception, but in reality the smaller percentage of the ECM total.

Neaksis, the first message board post. AJ is about 20 minutes away, and wants to pick up the behind work for the kids' schoolbooks on his way past. Please watch for him, thanks.

I'm particularly amazed by the one that I worked with. He is very good looking, about 32, popular with all the guys at work, cheerful, a hardworker.

I always admired him. After Sept. 11, he took his step-daughter to church and they prayed for the people in New York.

Any guesses who he ended up molesting?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Poor little baby.

neaksis, I think you should change the thread title so more people read this. Right now you are seeming to just get the regulars on the feminine hygiene thread. I think it is too important to hide this topic.

I just happened to stumble across this thread and it was not what I expected.

Neaksis, I commend you for learning the warning signs in order to help protect your children from a predator.

Speaking from experience as one who was s*xually abused as a child, I would ask you to set stronger boundaries. The story above states as follows:

"At the campfire later he did a number of things such as putting his arms around her "to warm you up", rubbing her arms, tickling her, and removing her shoes to massage her feet, again to "warm" her."

This makes my blood boil!!! This is EXACTLY the way it started in my case. So, please keep in mind that what I am about to say, I say in an effort to help you and your daughter based on my experience. I do not mean to be critical at all, and I hope the earnest tone of my words don't come across as criticism.

I have to say, that no person (including a family member or anyone if I suspected something) would EVER be allowed to touch my son or daughter like this, especially after the other warning signs. I appreciate that you were there keeping a close eye on her, but just allowing the contact without strongly and openly objecting gives your daughter the impression that maybe it's ok and allowing it does not help her to set boundaries (which is very difficult for abuse survivors). Please, please, the next time you see this man put his arms around her, rub her arms, etc, etc, march directly over to them, look him in the eyes and say loudly, DO NOT TOUCH MY DAUGHTER AGAIN. Say it like you mean it - like a lionness protecting her cub. Then interact with your daughter in a loving, kind and caring way so that she does not feel like she did anything wrong. Remove her from that area and take her to another area to play/have fun, or sit down next to her. I don't care if other people hear. The more that hear the better. I don't care if other people think you are overreacting - you're not. I don't care if it makes the adults uncomfortable, their life and childhood will not be destroyed if this man abuses your child.

On a similar note, if this man has a daughter, then I feel incredibly sad for her. I did a tremendous job of hiding the abuse - in part because I didn't think anyone would ever believe that a man who was so active in the church was capable of doing such things. I hope his children are safe and happy.

And do not thunk ANY age child is safe from being preyed upon.
Click Here - 12 week old baby abused

If an animal did to a child what ECMs do, they would be destroyed. I think it is only fair that the same response be used on ECMs.

recently here in CA some men were arrested for child and INFANT porn! For goodness sake, how do you sexually abuse an infant?????????

Neverthesame, you're right, that's what I should have done. It is also the way I plan on handling things in the future.
As for this ECM, I have no plans to ever let my daughter near him again, let alone let him touch her.

I am a very retiring person and found it extremely difficult to even make the ripples that I did, but I grew a lot over the weekend. I learned a little of how persistent they can be, and that they don't respond to the little "social signals" that normal people obey. The only way to get through to them is a direct frontal assault. Now I will not hesitate to get very pointed very fast. I also learned that you really can discourage them from your child if you don't back down.

I also came home and warned all the moms with young kids about my worries, and gave a (very) little seminar to the whole church on the ways and means of child molesters, so that all the members would be alerted as well.

I just wanted to add my own thoughts to this most important subject. My WH works in law enforcement and one of the most important things he has taught me is that you cannot judge a book by its cover. You can't pick out a murderer, child molester, etc. just by looking at them. As was mentioned above, child molesters come from all walks of life. I am trying to find the news story about a Dartmouth University Med School student who was 1 year away from becoming a Pediatrician. He was arrested for molesting children in his home state of Michigan. This was I'm guessing about 5+ years ago.

I check the child molester registry for our state. A note of caution though: The registry is just the tip of the iceberg. So many are never caught or tried, etc. You really are not safe from anyone.

This summer my son was fishing with a friend at a boat launch about two houses away. They had been there about 20 minutes when I went to check on them. There was a middle aged man there sitting on the tail of his pickup, which was parked next to a brushy/woodsy trail. He had a fish in a bucket. As I walked near my son said Hi mom! This man said Hi! Mom! (I'm now on red alert!) This man then asked my son, does your dad take you fishing? Now my red alert was on overdrive - DANGER, KEEP AWAY. Then my son said MOM, check out the fish he caught!!! I said "It's time to go NOW!" We left and I told my son and his friend why I did not trust this man.
1. He tried to befriend me to get to the boys.
2. He asked my son the fishing question to find out if he had a dad in the picture who would look out for him.
3. Parked next to the woods.
4. Hanging out showing the neighborhood kids his fish. I asked my son if he actually saw him catch the fish or if he brought it as bait for the "kids". My son said he did see him catch it.
5. This man had out of state plates. This was his summer "playground".

Pedophiles seek out places where children are. They often work in jobs at schools, daycare centers, camps, churches, scouting, etc. Yes, these places do background checks but remember not everyone is caught so they could still have a "clean record".

I personally would not trust many at churches who tried to get close to kids. First off, so many people automatically trust people who are associated with churches. They assume they are "godly" etc. ECM know this and seek out those situations.

No one should touch any children physically but their own family's kids. A man on a camping trip should not be trying to rub a young child's arms, etc. Next time I would get right up in his face and whisper DON'T EVER LAY A HAND ON HER AGAIN! EVER! Who cares if this man hates you forever?

And lastly, my own pet peeve. Tickling. I remember as a child not liking it because I felt the person doing it was overpowering me. I have only tickled my son and just a brief few seconds. I feel it is inappropriate for anyone to tickle a child that is not theirs.

I am not saying any of this to judge anyone. I just want all of our children to be safe from the evil predators out there. Even inmates hate child molesters! Believe it or not, they have their own "code of honor" and usually beat the crap out of inmates coming in on charges of molesting children.

Neaksis, I am so happy that those children have found a home with you. They are one of the lucky ones.

Well, FF, let me tell you about one incident that occurred in nearby Sacramento within the last 15 years or so. It was on the local news, and in the Sacramento papers, at the time it happened. An obstetric nurse walked into a patient's room one day, pulled back the curtain, and found the new daddy with his penis in his baby's mouth. Mama was in the bathroom, and baby was doing what a baby does when something is stuck into its mouth. Sucking is a reflex for an infant, not a conscious decision. The father went to prison for it. I HOPE the mother broke up with him, although I never heard that part of it.

I was already an obstetric nurse then myself, so identified with the nurse very strongly, because how would you ever be able to continue to do your job once you were afraid to pull back a curtain for fear of what you might see?

t&l

I just knew that someone had the answer to THAT one.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

And some people deny that evil forces are at work on our earth......

This is from Oprah's website

Common Offender Traits

Be wary, but not paranoid, of adults who have one or several of these behaviors. These common traits of sex offenders should help you raise the red flag on inappropriate relationships between adults and your children.

Adults who seem preoccupied with children

Single adults who work or volunteer with children's clubs/activities

Adults who work with children and frequently spend their free time doing "special" things with kids

Adults who spend time volunteering with youth groups who do not have children in those groups

Adults who seem to engage in frequent contact with children, i.e., casual touching, caressing, wrestling, tickling, combing hair or having children sit on their lap

Adults who act like children with children or who allow children to do questionable or inappropriate things

Adults who want to take your children on special outings too frequently or plan activities that would include being alone with your child

Adults who do not have children and seem to know too much about the current fads or music popular with children

Adults that your children seem to like for reasons you don't understand

Adults who seem able to infiltrate family and social functions or are "always available" to watch your kids

Do you know how to spot a molester? Dr. Ablow says one way is direct evidence—pornographic material involving children. And when pornography is coupled with drug use, it's a clear sign that a person is detached from reality and has trouble caring for other people, he says.

Another sign is an estrangement with children from a previous relationship. Don't assume that the kids have a problem. "Become an investigator," Dr. Ablow says, "Be more paranoid, not less paranoid."

More from Oprah's show:

Is Your Child at Risk?
Denver police officers Mike and Cassandra Harris have put 48 sexual predators behind bars. They offer parents some pointers for knowing if your children may be in danger.

Profile of a Stalked Child
These types of children may be vulnerable to sex offenders.
Children with low self esteem
Shy and lonely children
Overweight children
Children of divorced parents

Signs to Look for in Your Child
Here are some signs to look for if you're concerned your child may already be involved in an inappropriate online relationship.
Your child spends a lot of time online.
You find your child online after bedtime.
Your child turns off the computer when you walk into the room.
Your child receives phone calls from adults.
You find long distance calls from numbers you don't recognize on your phone bill.
Your child receives mail from someone you don't know.
Your child becomes withdrawn

Just wanted to say this: Don't forget that women can be pedophiles, too.

Think Mary Kay Latour---oh, whatshername.

In our county, a couple of years ago, we had a school teacher having an affair with a 15 year old.

Just recently, a young (24-25 yr. old) woman (also a schoolteacher) was arrested for molesting her husband's 15 year old female cousin. Apparently, the teenager was "acting out", so her parents took her for counselling, and it came out that she is gay and that she was having an affair with her cousin's wife. Nobody is surprised that the teenager is gay (rather obviously so), but they were shocked that the cousin's wife would do such a thing. Three nice families are in turmoil over this. So sad!

The lack of father love is something to pay attention to. I became a target to these pervs because I responded to any kind of praise on my appearance or attention from an older male. I was starved for the love of a father.

I just wanted to reiterate that we did not see all this touching. We saw her gravitate to him, we did not like the way he tickled his niece, we saw him wheedle (grrrrrr), and watch her (grrrrrrrrrrrr again).

The foot tickling, hugging, etc., must have happened very fast for us to miss it, especially since 5 of us were watching her. She told about it afterwards. We just saw her next to him again and again, and kept calling her back, less politely each time. The incidents with his niece we have barely found out about, and hope in the next day or two to persuade the parents to call the police. If they don't, we will have to, and will explore all options to accomplish that.

That weekend we saw enough to caution us greatly. Now, if we saw him, we would be visualizing crosshairs on his forehead.

{{{{KaylaAndy}}}}}

Mary Kay Latourneau