Myschae,

"" Quote:

Now if it was legal for the BS to take matters into his/her hands and pound the OM/OW flat...that would be a good thing!

Yeah, but what if it was the wife/husband of the other betrayed that was physically assaulting your spouse. You'd be ok with that?

Mys""

HMmmmm?? Saves me from doing it!!

OUCH!!

Did I say that out loud?? Just kidding folks, truly, just kidding!!

Tom Joad:

No reason to be suprised. I am not saying that we should outlaw murder, stealing or any of that $hit....While it is true that they are going to do it (crime, etc..) no matter what the penalty, there still needs to be law and enforcement of such.

IF WERE A JUDGE, you would see penalties actually being enforced. I'd no doubt make the incarceration issues we already have, much worse. I am the last person that would be permissive of such actions. Trust me man, if it were up to me (thankfully for your tax dollars, it isn't), I'd reopen up Alcatraz and dump the majority of Waywards there, with stiff sentences that would be ENFORCED....I'd also DOUBLE the sentences to those men (and women) who didn't (or tried to cheat the system and get out of) pay child support <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But, hey that's just me.

I am all about "free will", and I am all about responsibility and consequence. Alot of which, is cushioned by many BS here, all in the name of "love" and "compassion".


I have often been called uncompassionate because of this stance....well, I was in the Operating Room all Sunday night with some grandmother of 18, who's gut was rotting away in front of our eyes.....I save the compassion for those who need it....HER and her family...I save the compassion for the family that has to watch their 4 year son old go through another round of chemotherapy for his leukemia, who thinks it is normal to be chasing around other kids in the cancer ward with his IV pole straggling behind him. I save the compassion for the kids who go hungry because their mom/dad is strung out on drugs or is too busy in the corner bar tanking up on gin and tonic. I don't have the compassion for some three time cheater who's trying to beat his "addiction" to skanky women and kinky sex.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I am flawed, I admit it. I accept it.

But that's just me.

You have no idea how far off base you were in your post above. It is ok though, these message boards can get confusing, and it does happen.

I think exactly what you think I would "think"....there was no confusion.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I discussed this once with my husband. His view was that, if infidelity was illegal, no one would get married. I heard that and was surprised. What I thought -- but did not say -- was that I certainly would not have married HIM if I had known that that was his view.

Cherished

Years ago a man in my town that owned several grocery stores put out a weekly newspaper called the Watchdog. He was politically involved so the paper was used to promote his political views and it included pictures of everyone who wrote a bad check at his grocery stores. I was just a kid but I thought it was funny and always looked at those pictures. Needless to say, he had less of a problem with bad checks than the other stores in the area.

My point, instead of being illegal (which I thought it already was as sodomy is/was) what about public humiliation? Kinda like exposure on a grand scale.

I vote public humiliation instead of a misdemeanor...

Okay, jph's post made me think of a great WS punishment...I'm a FORMER WS...so please don't ask me to do this...

Anyway, we have a friend that worked for a guy that made his staff eat a jar of baby food meat if they were late...needless to say that no one was ever late more than once, so I say...

LET THEM EAT BABY FOOD MEAT!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Mrs. W

LMAO at "baby food meat". That stuff is sooooo nasty! Yuck!

Actually, in my state, adultery is illegal. I didn't know that until I had to go to the police station when H was picked up for DUI. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I was sitting there, and on the wall was a list of a few laws. Apparently, the penalty for adultery is 6 months in jail and/or $1000 fine (if I remember correctly!). In one of our blow-ups, I did tell H that if he messed up again, I would file charges against him. He started laughing, and I said, "Believe me, you don't want to try me."

That being said, the law doesn't seem to be a deterrent around here. We live in a regular lil' Peyton Place.

Now, I do know a guy whose wife gave birth to OM's baby (the guy thought it was his baby until he started suspecting the affair.). After his divorce, he sued the OM and got a large settlement....enough that the OM had to then declare bankruptcy. I don't know if that would have worked if there hadn't been a baby, though. Would probably have to have pictures or catch them in the act, I would imagine.

I think my view have already been discussed here but what I really want to say is --

Hi Bob !!!! So nice to see you again.

Best regards - Carnation

Nice to see ya back Carnation.

Cheers..

Lem

It would be really great if laws could prevent infidelity...and if victims could be recompensed.

From what I have seen on this board, the way of BS ALREADY protects the WS...I can't imagine them having the courage to press criminal charges knowing their WS would do time or pay a fine (probably from a joint account anyway, right).


But don't worry , we FWS do prison time of our own of sorts. Its really just the poor BSs that get totally screwed in this mess. I don't really think, even after all of the effort and love I have tried to give in recovery, that I can ever recompense my BS for my trangressions. Truly.

I wish people on the business end of infidelity had some legal standing. I'm sure BS lose jobs, homes, and pregnancies all the time. There is obvious liability in those situations.

GC

Bob, the thing is, there are SO many types of infidelity and so many different “grades” of infidelity on the infidelity scale (such as inappropriate friendships; intense EA’s and less intense EA’s; Internet/e-mail A’s (with or without cybersex); PA’s with or [/i]without[/i] sex; ONS’s; sex with prostitutes etc.) that I’m asking myself that if the law could make infidelity illegal, where would the line be drawn and how would “punishments” for all the different types and grades of infidelity be determined by authority? For example, how would authority determine what type of infidels be “arrested and locked up”? Will only infidels who’ve committed sexual offenses be arrested and locked up? Or will infidels who are caught in *minor* physical activity (like hugging/kissing) also be arrested and locked up? And what about EA’s (like so called “soul-mate” A’s) where physical activity don’t play any role but where the EA's cause the same or even more damage to the BS's and other people involved? Can become a bit complex don't you think?

Will it make some think twice? Yes it will. Will it stop some, yes it will. Will it stop all? No it won't. Should we make it legal?

Well doesn't it sound kinda stupid that in most countries the marriage m/b legal t/b binding in court yet, the causes for a D don't have t/b?

Isn't that like an open ended contract? Who would sign a contract which only obligates 1 party and leaves the other free t/d whatever they want?

Olden days the adulterer w/b stoned both the Ws and OP. Now they make the gossip section both in print and on TV. What has changed? The A is still an A, just more blatant.

Man tolerates more than b4, what's the next thing t/b legalized - robbing banks??!??!

Not only should infidelity be illegal, the WS and OP s/b forced t/d hard labor with the proceeds going to the victims. The A is not from this source (that mothership thingy)..... so why legitimize it?!?!?

L.

Hi bOb - how are you?

I have not read all the responses on this question, so what I offer may be duplicative of others' offerings. If my logic has already been shot down, oh well.

In the US, adultery is already illegal in many local jurisdictions, but it is rarely enforced. So this amounts to it being legal. (It does usually carry some weight in divorce proceedings regarding waiting periods and can sway individual judges regarding divorce settlements.) I am not an attorney, so I may not have this right, but in the US matters of marriage/adultery/divorce are civil proceedings and not subject to criminal sanctions if "crimes" are committed. So, even if "more" illegal or existing laws were enforced, I don't think there would be any threat of being put in the slammer. I'm not saying this is right or wrong. From my experience, adultery amounts to emotional rape and ought to be seen as such - whether in the courts or not.

All that said, I think a good argument can be made that adultery constitutes a breach of civil contract and that perpetrators ought to be treated just like anyone else who violates a legal contract > he/she may have to forfeit any rights in dissolving the marital property. You want to cheat on your spouse? Go ahead - but be prepared to forfeit all jointly held property at the whim of the "victim" - potentially including child custody.

Would this prevent adultery? Maybe not, but I think it may sway fence sitters, once exposed, to think twice about carrying it through to divorce rather than working on the marriage. The real point of this logic to me is to provide some justice for the betrayed spouse. I had to split 50/50 all jointly held assets AND forfeit a portion of by retirement pension to my XW - who married the guy she wasn't having an affair with 5 months after our divorce. OM's salary is about twice mine. No justice whatsoever.

Of course, this plan would be subject to legal wrangling and likely end up lining the pockets of lawyers. But I sure would have liked to have had a chance in my case.

This brings me to my conclusion acquired as a result of going through my experience put poo poo-ed by many people: pre-nuptual "contracts" make a lot of sense in this realm.

If the civil marriage proceeding cannot serve as a contract for determining division of assets with justice, then a pre-nup certainly can. Would it be squeaky clean? Nope - you'd still likely have a bunch of legal wrangling over "proving" the act, but the legal standard would be preponderance of evidence (not beyond a reasonable doubt as in the criminal process) and based on stories read here, pretty dern easy to document "predisposition" and "opportunity" - taking advantage of WSs' fog bound recklessness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This brings me to my next point > for couples who successfully recover from infidelity, it makes a lot of sense to me to gin up a "post-nup" agreement that would be legally binding. This would amount to "either of us commits infidelity in the future, then the faithful spouse can at his/her discretion divorce the wayward spouse and seize all jointly held assets."

Play the role, pay the toll.

Comments?

Hi WAT !

I'm OK thanks! Resigned; Content; but my journey's not over yet so who knows where i'll end up ?

your reply and te eothers are interesting - I think graycloud's reply was closest to my intention when posting:

This would make the situation more fair and might even make a few WS-to-be's think twice.

I have considered a post-a agreement. But, shamefully, the arrangement sI put in place to protect my finances during Squids A and plan A are still only a two phone calls away.

A post- A agreement is probably the best thing though.

you raise a unique point about proving too - is an EA infidelity ? if so what constitutes an EA/ Also the potential abuse of this through frame-up is scary.

Hope you're well mate.

I've always been a big proponent of hitting the WS/OP in the pocket book for Infidelity and also possible jail time.So I guess I do think it should be illegal.

When you consider all the costs to the spouses(loss of home,financial burdens,wasting money on OP,loss of income/jobs,etc) and emotional destruction and costs for Psychotherapy,lawyers,counselors,medications,etc. it does add up and to just ignore all that and view it as a part of life to me isn't right.

If we value family and marriage at all it needs to be protected and right now there seems to be a huge lack of support.Marriages are considered disposable now and we still maintain a 47-50% divorce rate that is not likely to decline anytime soon and Infidelity rates are increasing.And the worst part is our children are affected by these decisions we as adults make.They are the ones that suffer the most.

We need mandatory marriage classes and we need more education.If we can put away someone for stealing a coat then we should be putting people away for such transgressions of A's too.Yes the court systems are all tied up and backlogged,that will be an eternal problem and a whole 'nother segment on MB, but to suggest that we shouldn't address this issue firmly because of that is foolish.There will be more isues to deal with that do warrant jail time in our futures so that consequence always needs to be present.If we stop putting people away just because our prisons are overcrowded we are headed for even more disaster.

Money talks and jail time does too.If it prevents *some people from getting involved in adultery then I am all for it.There will always be those people who think they are above the law and who buck the system but we can deal with them accordingly.

O

In Virginia, infidelity is illegal. But except in the fact that the BS can get divorced earlier (and some other custody and division of property related issues), there isnt any teeth to it.

Some on here have asked whether or not they should be locked up or not. Or face damages. And whether that deters infidelity. I believe that is the wrong question to ask.

None of our laws are meant specifically to be a deterrent, just as Plan B isnt meant to win back the WS. Laws are first and foremost there to administer justice. To make wrongs right...as close as we can. To punish the transgressor(s).

With that intent, then I say "yes" that the laws should have more teeth. Why? Because justice needs to be done. As a society, please name me one legal contract (besides the marriage contract) that doesnt have legal or financial penalties for breaking the contract. And make no mistake...the marriage contract is a legal contract.

If as a businessman, I refuse to live up to my contract with a customer, I can be sued. If my not living up to the contract results in physical and/or emotional damages, then I can even be held criminally liable.

So why not the marriage contract? We used to have alienation of affection laws. Why not now? Most states do not have them.

And remember, there are more than the BSs that are the aggrieved parties. What about the children?

Shoot, just yesterday, there was an article about how divorce degrades the financial assets of the couple by 77% on average. If any other contract caused that kind of damage, you would sue in a second for damages. But the BS has to just watch their whole life, including their finances and everything they have built, be wiped out because someone cant get their cranium out of you-know-where.

So, at least on a civil matter, I believe the WS and the OP should be liable for financial penalties to the BS and children. Added to that, we can discuss the criminality of these acts.

Just my opinion.

In His arms.

I am doing very well, thank you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


Yep.

We all know here, of course, that an EA is as much "emotional rape" as PA - if not more. But less informed folks may not be as sensitive as us.

I couldn't agree more with your inference that determining whether an EA occurred would be problematic. Thus, the practical solution in such a system might have to have as an infidelity "threshold" or definition the actual act of extramarital relations. In WAT's world, such relations would be "proven" for this use as evidence of "predisposition" and "opportunity" for infidelity with a specific OP. Again, the legal standard would be "preponderance of evidence" (more likely than not) because it would be a civil proceeding, and could be established by, e.g., pictures or eye witness accounts of the infidels being affectionate, cell phone/e-mail records of extensive communications, e-mail records of arranged rendezvous and/or intentions, credit card records of hotel expenditures, etc. - enough to make the arguement that infidelity was "more likely than not." All the evidence we're used to seeing on this forum. Remember, WSs in the act are none too careful!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The down side of this is that some bona fide internet EAs, for example, might not "qualify." I didn't claim this was a perfect idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

edited: I forgot to agree that the prospect of "abuse" seems inevitable. Heck, the WS might try to use this tactic as a pre-emptive strike before the BS knows that an affair is in progress. Yep, not perfect. But abuse success may be controlled for the most part by the "proof" process - and wouldn't be any worse than all other potential "abuses" we accept everyday as part of the cost of living amongst humans. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As a former WS, I can tell you this: While I was (in MB-terms) foggy, I wasn't so foggy that I robbed, murdered, drove drunk, or did anything else that while morally/ethically wrong is also punishable by jail time or civil (financial) penalty.

Having infidelity be punishable by law would have deterred me.

Would it have deterred my ex-WS-H? It might have, you know? He had different reasons for what he did (many infidelities)... and I can't answer for him... but I suspect it might have tipped the scales.

As Suzet* wonders, what about those who flirt? Have emotional affairs? Don't sleep with the OP? I don't know that you can punish those acts criminally in the same way (because of a lack of evidence)... but, for the hard-core affair, including sexual intercourse, yep, make it criminally punishable. I know it would have made a difference for me, though it makes me kind of sick to admit it.

I voted yes.

Bob,

Yes it should be illegal (Capital offense), but I voted no to your question because I don't think that it would deter very many WS from beginning an affair.

The reason I say this is because WS do not appear to consider any of the other potential consequences of their affair until the reality of what they are doing sets in. By then they have already transgressed.

Who

One question I would have about making infidelity illegal is, what then do we consider cases where there IS no infidelity and one spouse wants to end the marriage anyway? I realize that we don't see much of that here, but part of the 'thinking twice' component of such an action might increase the amount of people who take the oft given advice "Divorce before cheating."


Mys