I think you did very, very well. There were a few DJ's there, but not bad at all.

I imagine the OM will cool it. He will be very afraid you will contact his wife. Actually, you probably should expose to her too. Might as well have it all done while your wife is angry about you talking to him.

ditto believer

The French skating judge would give you a 10 if your were French.

The rest, maybe an 8. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good job, all in all. Do not make threats using the kids. Bad juju.

Now, while it's hot, spill the beans to OM's wife. If you don't do it quick, OM will ahve the chance to prep her > "Honey, some crazy guy is claiming I'm boinking his wife! Isn't that wierd? Can you believe that??"

Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.

To your wife, you are now the scourge of the earth. You've ruined her life. You're the cause of world hunger. You probably drew those cartoons in the Danish newspapers.

Understand? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Keep your cool and stand your ground. Do not argue, do not flinch. Expose to OM's W.

Again, good job.

WAT

hap, boy that sounds so much like me and my situation from the summer. You asked...
Please keep in mind you are just begining this long rollercoaster ride and your chances at recovery increase with how well you do Plan A. Please read Peperband's Carrot and Stick of Plan A on what a good Plan A should include. Part of is is exposure and wot is right, expose OMW immediately. Don't give him a chance to make you into some crazy suspicious husband. Get the proof and expose to her. Your WW will go bezerk, but it helps shine the light on their nasty little secret.

Try and eliminate your DJ, AO and SD. I know it's hard in the heat of battle so just try to keep cool. I found eliminating DJ's to be the hardest so maybe you can focus on those.

Don't worry...my WW said I ruined her life, that she will take the kids, that she will fight me in court, etc. Don't be intimidated by her threats. She wants you to back off or her sleezy A and she figures she can do this by threatening you.

Ya I got the porn accusations to and although I'm not proud of it and know it was wrong, it is not adultery and should not be put in the same class as an A. She is trying to shift the blame onto you.

I agree with wot again on using the kids as threats. Be careful and try to eliminate those types of comments. You also said if it weren't for the kids you would already be D'ing. That is not Plan A. I know you are hurt and angry...I've been there...this is NOT easy and it goes against every natural instinct you have.

Read up on Plan A, get Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. Learn as much as you can and keep posting and seeking advice.

Remember the basics of Plan A includes...

Eliminating LB'ers
Meeting WS EN's
Exposing A

Hope and Pray,

Whooa!! Slow the wreck down!


Less than two weeks later you say:

Hope, there is a huge chance that you can have a successful reconciliation with your wife. The doc is 57 and is IMHO just looking for a quick shaggin with no strings attached. He does not want a divorce and does not want the financial ramifications of one at his age. Your wife was not looking for a quick shaggin, she probably thought she was in love and he cared about her, etc. She will try to hang on to him and he will eventually avoid her like the plague. In addition, you provide a huge amount of financial support to your wife and she knows this. She can have a very nice life with you and her quality of life will nosedive if she leaves you. Let this affair die its natural death. Do not force her to return to you, let her come back to you of her own free will, I guarantee she will.

You need to stop making ultimatums and threatening divorce and custody issues. It will take on a life of its own and you will be in the high speed lane for a nasty divorce before you even know what hits you. Believe me, I know how hard this is. Just let the divorce drop for now. Whether you want it or not, it should never be rushed into, especially when emotions are running high. I suggest you continue your Plan A and try to detach a little. The last thing you want her to see is how desperate you are to hold on to her.

I agree with Shattered - I didn't walk you thru it as clearly.

Good summary.

WAT

Thank you all so much.

I called the WW (although I do believe that they are probably not talking any longer as a result of "his" decision) this monring and told her that we both said things yesterday in the heat of battle that we wish we could take back. I told her that in my heart she still holds a special place and that the woman I know is inside her is the woman I want to rebuild our lives with. I told her that she will have to admit that regardless of everything that has happened that my love for her and our kids and my desire to protect them all cannot be questioned.

If the little A is dying a its death then why do you suppose that she is so intent on not discussing rebuilding? We had a pretty good marriage and all in all I see stories of reconciliation on here that began from a foundation not nearly as strong as ours once was. Does she just not believe that you can fall in love again? I told her it was fortunate that I know that love is a choice and one that I am making regarding her and our family and not just a feeling like she currently believes.

Does her finding out about me dropping the bomb to the OM and him consequently "dropping" her make her mad at me and him? I am getting some of what he may get when she speaks with him again? I can just see her telling him how sorry he is for not telling her I called him and him telling her to back off was cowardly and she thought they shared something (not that she was just a quick roll in the hay as it apparently may turn out).

Do they all seem so intent on a D without working on the M first? She had really dropped the D talk over the past few weeks until yesterday and didn't mention it until I asked her about yesterday. She doesn't cry a tear one when we talk. She seems to be the most bitter, resentful, angry person I have ever seen and for the life of me and for the life of me I never did anything to make her feel this way about me prior to this little fling and change in personality. Meeting all of her needs or not, I loved her, showed her affection, was a doting husband and father, helped around the house, made a very good living, bought her gifts and cards and such, the In-Laws love me to death, and on. Why am I getting all of the anger? Where does that stem from? I was getting this before the "blow up" yesterday.

I will still try and plan A. I will control my anger henceforth and eliminate DJ's, LB's, etc. I will not threaten with the kids and custody. I will back off some and detach and try and not take it personally.

I planned to go over the hospital ER on Sat. night and surprise her (call her only after getting the the hospital so that she doesn't think I am checking up on her again) with some Birthday cake and photos from the party we intend to have for 1 yo. son. earlier that day.

My true intention is to let all of the co-workers see the family that has been devestated by this A and my WW actions, put a face to it and see us for who we are (a loving husband and father and two beautiful kids that have done nothing to find ourselves in this mess). I want her to feel as if everyone in the hospital is looking at her every move be it with the OM or someone else in the near future. I'm thinking scarlett letter here. I think this may help keep any thoughts of a re-ignited A from happening.

Did anyone else have a WW/WH that was just absolutely detached from reality at the beginning of the A, during the A and after the A? Whether their A partner takes them back or not they just seem to have no interest in pursuing the M and rebuilding (all she could tell me yesterday was "I don't want to be with you". I told her "I don't want to be with the person you've become either but luckily I know the other person inside you and I do care deeply for her.)

More advice about everything please! My savior and you guys are all that is keeping me sane.

My family and friends want me to D her and fight for the kids to the bitter end sooner than later. I am just not ready to throw the towel in yet. The A started sometime late Oct. and probably turned physical sometime in mid Nov. and I found out Jan. 4 . So its been about one month from D day. Would I be giving up way to quick if I just punted? I feel as if I would given some of the stories on this board.

Good Plan A'ing here. ALWAYS talk about the M and that you believe you can be happy together. NEVER talk about D or the problems of the past. When you get to recovery you can discuss those problem, but right now she is fogged and will only focus on the negatives.


That is because she is still in the A. She won't be able to get those feelings back for you until she is in NC with OM and starts to go through withdrawal. Her feelings will not change overnight so please don't expect to see changes right away. Your barometer for success should be in months and not days or even weeks. This is a LONG process so you must be patient and allow lots of time.


I don't quite follow you here, but again this takes time. Things will not change in days so please try to understand that. You need to do a consistent Plan A right now so that should be your focus.


This is all TYPICAL of a WS so don't take it personally. They all think or threaten D, get angry, resentful, cold, distant, and so on. They will re-write history and bring up stuff from years ago. Listen to her even though you think it is trivial. You probably were a good husband, but she had the A for a REASON and you need to figure out why. Do you know what her most important EN is? You need to find out and make changes to yourself .


Good and it must be genuine or they will see right through it.


It is going to be extremely difficult for her to go NC while still working with OM...trust me on that. Ideally she or OM will have to change jobs and that is going to be tricky.


Yes, Yes and Yes! Nothing new here. The WS won't be ready to work on the M until they are in NC and have gone through WD. NC is critical!


If you really want to save the M then don't listen to family and friends who encourage you to D. Explain to them that you want to save your M and to support you with this. They may still not understand since they don't know what it is like to be a BS, but at least that will minimize there pushing for D.

You can do this hap!

Thanks for the feedback "HTW".

QUOTE:
This is all TYPICAL of a WS so don't take it personally. They all think or threaten D, get angry, resentful, cold, distant, and so on. They will re-write history and bring up stuff from years ago. Listen to her even though you think it is trivial. You probably were a good husband, but she had the A for a REASON and you need to figure out why. Do you know what her most important EN is? You need to find out and make changes to yourself .

This has all happened just as you suggest. However, one thing that really concerns me is that I cannot really figure out what caused her to want to have the A. If I do think about it, it in my mind says more about her than about what I did or did not do. This worries me. If it is something that I did or did not do to meet her EN's then I can most certainly change this and will. I have filled out my EN's and ask her to read them and do the same. She hasn't yet. I only hope that this isn't some combination of post partum depression/baby blues, running with the wrong crowd, which she is doing, lowering of morals, running from reality, boredom, low self esteem, etc. I hope that it is something that I did or did not do for her. That I can correct. Her having a personal problem with who she is and where she's at and headed in life makes it harder for me to help, I think. I will keep plan A'ing to the extreme, talking about saving the marriage (No D talk from me), become more patient and understanding without being a doormat, etc.

Do you think that what's happened with the OM telling her to cool it and not telling her we spoke about this (I told her) and the hope that this pushed him to cool it with her (using her and not standing by her when push came to shove)could actually play to my favor and make her despise or hate him at some point, maybe making it difficult to continue to work their either on his part or hers??

Thanks HTW

Hope, What I'm hearing here is a desire to control the situation. If it's something you did, you are in control. If it's about her, you are not in control. Once an affair has begun, no one is in control, especially the BS. From what you have told us about you and the affair, I do think it is some sort of issue within her, quite possibly self esteem. A lot of women have self esteem issues, especially when they are a SAHM. Imagine what a boost it is to have a seasoned doctor tell you how bright and beautiful you are, etc. It boosts your self esteem and you start feeling so good you fool yourself into thinking you are in love with him. The same feelings she felt with you are but a distant memory now. Therefore, she thinks she must not be in love with you anymore.

I would lay off the EN's questions. I think it is too soon and she hasn't given you any indication that she wants to work on the marriage. This may come off as pressuring her. She is probably so confused right now that she wouldn't be able to answer it properly anyway.

This is going to take some time. Remember, she was/is probably emotionally invested in this relationship. As the relationship developed and became physical, her feelings for OM convinced her that your marriage was a mistake. Even when the OM drops her, it will take her some time to see things clearly and have her feelings return to you.

Continue your great plan A and prepare for the long run. Good luck.

Thanks guys. I will continue in a strong plan A and will find and work on those things that I know I need to improve upon. I will have to trust God to work on her and whatever other than unmet needs have caused this alien transformation in my WW.

I will simply back off R talk and such until such time as I get a better feel that she may be open to talking about saving the M. Keep the great advice coming please.

H&P,

I have just read your thread. You have written almost EXACTLY what happened to me. All the same events, same justifications (except my wife was banging the local bouncer that she met at the gym). My wife is an RN also.

Go back and read my threads starting in June 2002. You will see the parallels. And what you can look forward to. And maybe, you can make a few less mistakes than I did.

So far, you are handling this well. SH helped me tremendously and I think you should stay in regular contact as you work thru this.

Anyway, just understand you are not unique. Your situation is the closest yet to what I went thru!

In His arms.

Hope and Pray:

My regrets guy .........I too see much of my story in yours.

WW's A occurred in hospital setting. Yea, another RN.
Almost 100% in the Lab, while on the clock.

Only thing that didn't take place there,
were Phone calls, usually while they were driving to or from.

Unfortunately,
It was very tough to catch,
as all sex was there (protected by doors, locks and security) , emails were work protected .... all calls, pages or text messages were covered by "work" ...I could go on, but you get the point.

Eventually Had to Use a semen detection kit to get my proof!
Not pretty, but it worked! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Thank goodness, cause I was going crazy.

Next,
I too let them continue working together for about 3-4 months after D-day.
Worst experience of my LIFE by far!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Now although they say there was no further physical contact,
I found out later after the fact, that they OF COURSE were still talking and communicating.
{just as I feared and got lied to over and over about}

It was pretty much my Plan A, that got my W to open up and come clean on everything.
[Learned A was not 3-4 months, but more like 2+ yrs .......Ohhhhhh, baby!]

Never claim I did a Perfect Plan A, but I did pretty well at it ........although unlike others I still had to explode and let out my Pain Once a week or so.

In any case it eventually all worked out,.
Long story short:
CLB (oh sorry, that would be = creepy little [email]b@stard)[/email] eventually got tired of us, and ended up turning on my W ....which then ultimately got HIM to be asked to LEAVE by the administration.

I only wish I could have been there to see him lead out by security!
Oh well, I can in my minds eye.
(But LIVE would have been Sooo much better).

With too many ghosts there, W eventually got another job and we moved out of state.

I needed that fresh start, as there were too many memories in our Old Life for me to deal with too.

HP - you're getting good advice. Take it all in.

You asked:

Huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you.

You remind me of me back then - trying to analyze this crap to 5 decimal points.

Resist this.

Slow down.

When in doubt about what to do, do nothing. More often than not, nothing is the best course when you're not sure.

To answer one specific question you asked, your wife will be furious with OM if she realizes she's been dumed. This is a big "if" right now, but in time, she'll realize it. This can be a good fog shifter, if you keep your nose clean in the meantime and not LB her.

Bottom line, go slow, be calm, Plan A, and no LBs. let time work its wonders.

According to Frank Pittman, "Private Lies", often the best course for a BS is to find something to do while the affair runs its course. Overlaying this with MB principles results in the bottom line I wrote above.

Now, what about exposing to OM's W?

WAT

I am a terrible stand by and wait guy. I am and have always been a problem solver (BS Ind. Engineering, MBA, currently Sales and Marketing Business Mgr). All of this goes against all of my natural instincts and I am learning on the go. You guys are literally saving me from making a mess of this. I will be patient and work on me with newfound enthusiasm. I have no choice as I can't control her feelings which right now regardless of being dumped as it seems it may be are not for me or at least in the way necessary for her to re-commit to our M and family.

I am still thinking of exposing to OMW although at this point (if I can confirm this and I think I can) it appears that he may actually be of assitance to me by dumping and distancing himself from WW and letting her feel like a quick and dirty shag. I have not lost sight of telling the OMW may also end one or the other working at the same place and this could be of benefit as well. Lastly, my conscience has also been tugging at me to let her know.

If I could get her out of that environment (seeing OM) of filth (low life nurse friends with little of no morality or sense of right and wrong) then it would be of great benefit, I believe. I could still drop the nuke of the letter I have written to the HR director at the same time I expose to OMW. This might be all that is needed to send WW packing without a job and no money. I bet I look pretty attractive to her when she is home and has no money. But more importantly it would get her away from the daily interaction with those "friends" and would insure no face to face contact with OM.

I have to be very careful not to LB, DJ, etc. I did some of these the other day and it did not help my case. The discussion was bad timing as I am in the "anger" stage right now. If I had not found this board and seen the numerous examples of WS acting like my WW I would not have belived it could be true. How someone can hurt someone they claimed to love dearly less than 6 months earlier and then not shed on or barley one tear about it while looking at you and then going on the try and re-write your marital history and find someway that you were the one to blame for her or him doing this is frankly unfathomable to me, but is very real from reading this board day by day.

I going to commit to hang in there and work on me, read tirelessly the information everyone suggests, enjoy my kids, plan A WW when given the opportunity and not pressure her or threaten her. This is going to be the longest hardest road I have ever traveled but my family and even my WW (for now) are worth it to me. I have to give it my best shot so that I can look in the mirror and be proud regardless of the outcome down the road.

You sound good.

I know it's hard, please go slow and give this thing time.

You said it yourself:

If we are correct about the dumping, right on you are. Allow this to happen. You have to wait on it.

Time is on your side.

When do you talk to Steve again?

WAT

hap, you are getting excellent adivce from the vets. You have no idea how much they know about this stuff so please listen to them.

You will be in the anger stage for a LONG time so make an extra effort to put your TAKER away for a while. You will have to do 100% of the work right now so don't expect anything from you WW.

On another note, what is it with nurses and infidelity? I don't mean to sterotype but it seems there is a disproportionately high number of nurses (even MD's like lem) who are either WS or BS based on the posts I have read on these boards.

Any comments?

My wife has even commented on that. I noticed a change in who she was and how she reacted to things asshe went thru nursing school. Most of those changes were NOT good! Her demeanor with people was so much better before she became a nurse.

I gues dealing with life and death all day, they begin to get a grandiose view of themselves. Not sure. As a soldier, I know being a soldier changed me. But for the most part, it wasnt negative!

When I was in Bosnia, there was so much sleeping around going on base. With the infantry soldiers? Nope. The sleeping around was going on atthe hospital with the docs and nurses! The IG office was busy halfthe time busting RNs and docs for all of their dalliances.

Dont know why all this is. But I do know...it is.

In His arms.

First let me qualify this for all of the hard working and marriage committed nurses in the profession. This is not meant for you.

However, I do believe it is more the lifestyle than anything else. I think you will find the infidelity taking place at a much higher rate on the off shifts with nurses, interns, paramedics, doctors, etc. due to the lifestyle. There is a lot of down time and time to sit around and drink coffee, share stories, rub off on one another, discuss soap operas, read COSMO, fight boredom, criticize each other's spouse, etc. This is not conducive to a good marriage. If this works out you can rest assured that my WW will never work in a health care environment again. If it doesn't work out I will not date anyone that does.

I also thought the same thing with the disproprtionate number of WS here who drove trucks (Ford F-150 type), worked blue collar jobs, smoked cigarettes, bowled (in formal bowling leagues), and had military experience........ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> when all was said and done and all of the variables were controlled for and we re-analyzed the data, using a Mann-Whitney test, it still did NOT compute....turns out it was all STEREOTYPE...

LEM

Well, your entitled to your opinion brother...but you can be rest assured that your CW choosing to remain faithful for the rest of her life to you will NOT be because she is not in the health care environment.....but I get your concerns.....I really do.