I was intrigued that the thread about changing religions for a future spouse was still going strong. I jumped to the last page and read some posts. I have to say I find it somewhat strange that most of the people on this website seem to be what I'll label most generally as "religious". Previously I had believed that faith and participating in an organized religion would have helped to shield us from some of this infidelity stuff.

I was raised as a Catholic with the fire and brimstone fear of God. Morals and values were driven home from birth. Not to say that I have led a sinless life. There are many things I have done over my lifetime that I am ashamed of. Afterall, I am human.

BUT, why does something that is so vehemently frowned upon by organized religions seem to happen most frequently to those that practice those religions??

This is all just food for thought that is sure to stir up a bee's nest.

Here is the link to the story:

http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

I think the large majority of people who are claim to be religious don't really take their religion to heart OR they engage in a lot magical thinking (a natural extension for some religious folks).

Religious people may just assume that both are committed no matter what and that God will handle everything else, so they don't put the work into building and protecting the relationship.

Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

I don't know if religion plays a role or not.

I do think the states need to make it harder to get a divorce. That article says that Oklahoma has a very high divorce rate, well HurtinginOk on this board could have been divorced in something like 10 days. That's crazy!

My opinion is that divorce should not be made easy. People should have to maybe go to classes, be separated for a while...something.

I think people are getting married with the idea that well if it doesn't work we can always get divorced. That is not how a marriage should start.

I suspect it has to do with fire and brimstone or rigidty morality rules taking the place of practical tools for marriage.

My husband and I come from very strong conservative Catholic backgrounds. We did all things we were "supposed to do", and were very disillusioned when it did not actually work.

We had to learn to re-understand our religious morality as the "spirit" of the law, and use practical mundane tools like meeting emotional needs to actually fulfill the law.

All the religion and morality in the world will not help you if you don't have the relationship skills and tools to make it work. I think there is a huge gap that needs to be filled in this area.

I agree states need to make getting a divorce harder. In New Jersey my WxH couldn't file for 18 months after leaving because he didn't have any grounds. Where on the other hand since I had grounds, adultry and abandonment I could get one right away.

So where did WxH go, he secretly moved to Las Vegas with the OW and file there. It is so easy to get a divorce there it seems Nevada is against marriage. Its a no-fault state and it the easiest state to get a divorce in. As you can see by the census it leads in divorce over all other states.

Polling data from the 2001 ARIS study, described below, indicate that:

81% of American adults identify themselves with a specific religion:




therefor...religious affiliate would be the majority of divorces as well...

just statistics alone would make it come out that way....


low said....
Religious people may just assume that both are committed no matter what and that God will handle everything else, so they don't put the work into building and protecting the relationship.

Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

I am leaving that one.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would say that I am religious....and never would I view honoring God as NOT protecting and building something as sacred as marriage....

I would say that God asks me to treat my marriage as a cherishable bond....

ARKIE

I think I agree with the general consensus... My take on the question of why the Bible-Belt would lead the country in divorce is the illusion that if you are religious then God will bless your marriage, since He likes marriage, HOWEVER, if you're having trouble in your marriage, then God didn't really bless it, and you must have jumped the gun and married the wrong person. In THAT case, of course, God *must* favor divorce, right?

Of course not (from the Christian perspective), but when you're caught up in the pain of living in a very unhappy marriage, it's a very attractive train of thought.

About easy divorces -
Now... from a strategic point of view:
If you think your WS may do something like HD2's WxH, and move to a place where he/she can call the shots even though he/she is the WS, then the thing to do is to FILE for a D in your own state (if you do have grounds). In that case, you are in the driver's seat as the plaintiff, and because of comity and the "Full Faith & Credit" body of law, NO other state will allow a subsequent D (or any related) proceeding to be started in their state.

Just because you file does NOT mean you have to move forward with the D... you can sit on it for quite some time, but it does make it impossible for the WS to out-flank you, legally speaking.

Just a thought.

Then neither should marriage. It is far too easy for people to get married these days. If we are going to regulate divorce rigorously, then I would propose we also implement a legal system of "betrothal" during which the betrothed are required to spend a year in counseling, paid for by the betrothed. The marriage license fee should be increased to a high value that would demonstrate seriousness on the part of both, say $2500 each.

Personally, I don't think government has any business defining these social constructs any longer. Sovereign adults SHOULD be free to associate and disassociate at will.

I do not advocate that they do so lightheartedly, but I don't believe government should have a say in it.

I agree with LO.

Marriage should not be instantly available to just anyone.

The Catholic Church has been tightening requirements for some time now. Attending an Engaged Encounter (EE) is just one, for example. A priest is required to refuse to marry a couple that does not meet a specific list of requirements.

I look back on our EE and see several big red flags. What was I thinking?

The rules are even tighter now, so FWW and I might not even make it through the gate if we were to do it now.

Here in Canada - you have to be physically seperated (and proove it) for 1 year before you can get a divorce, UNLESS you can PROOVE an affair, or some sort of abuse. If you can proove that you can divorce immediately - although courts cant usually get it done in 1 week...you can have it done in 1 month or so if you have good lawyers.

Makes it a bit harder to divorce - but divorces are still VERY common here too...I am not sure if making it harder will stop it...

I agree more with LO - that marriage requirements should be more...but I just dont see it happening here in Canada, I mean - the country just voted to legalize same sex marriages in courthouses...the vote barely won...but it did - although our new prime minister (should he win Monday) is going to allow each province to vote on their own whether it should be legal.

If they are allowing those marriages that easy - then they aren't ever going to look at making heterosexual marriages harder to get...

I also agree that it should be harder to get married.

I think people enter into marriage too casually and then just divorce if it doesn't work out.

Is this how it's supposed to be? How it should be? I don't know?

I'll take a stab at this one. Why are you not surprised? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

arkie said:

How right she is. Statistics don't lie, statiticians do.

But also, based on ark's statistics (which I'll assume are reasonably accurate), one could argue that we're right back to the original question, just not limited to the "bible belt", for the entire country - by virtue of the 81% - is in the belt: "Why so much divorce when it goes against our morals." (paraphrased)

(I love these "morals" discussions because it makes hypocritical people squirm.)

I propose that the high divorce rate (or any other undesirable social behavior) contradiction with an assumed preponderence of "morals" is due to false claims of morals, or assigning oneself "morals" simply by assigning oneself a moral label, e.g., "I'm a Christian, thus I have morals."

These labels are not good predictors of future individual behavior, I contend.

Hence my question that so far has gone unanswered: Given two people, one of avowed religious faith popularly considered "moral" and one an athiest, what can you predict about their future moral behavior compared to societal norms?

Caution: anyone with an operating hypocrisy meter better turn it off before reading further in this thread - or at least have a change of batteries.

Statistically, isn't it likely that religious people are more likely to GET married in the first place, rather than cohabit-forever?

Are there any stats on the number of unmarried couples who enter into a 'committed' relationship (such as having children together), and then break up?

TA

I can't tell you how illogical some of these leaps appear to be to me....

checking a box on the 2000 census that you ascribe to Judeaism ... or Christianity or Buddahism...OR Hinduism..or any other ism ity....

doesn't make you religious....AND/BUT
lets admit that even here the majority of WS that come here....and the majority of BS that speak of their WS...will often ascribe to being of a faith...but USUALLY certainly MORE than NOT...describe themselves as feeling very very far removed from the God that they said they followed or believed in when they checked the little box on some survey...

we here have seen very very very few people (couple entertaining wackos here and there...) that have taken their affair to be Godly actions....

so saying you are of a religion is NOT an indentifiable tag of how and where you are in that walk of your own individual faith....and does not an instant hypocrit make...but more likely a lost little soul...floundering in hurt...for it is my opinion that WS are very very wounded people....no doubt inflicting great wounds as well....but still themselves very very messed up....

so while people may want to scream hypocrisy....I doubt that it is hypocrisy to them..and more likely the story would line up that they believe in some type of God...but don't feel close or very religious ....AND don't USE God to justify their actions...THAT would be hypocritical...squared.....

and last I looked on my map...those new england states looked cold but tiny...and some of those bible belts appeared quit large to me....so again statistically speaking...

I hate blanket statements..spread over things like statistics and logistics and stuff,,,
but probably cause I'm not always able to follow the logic

ARK

Ark,

How does a state look cold on a map?


Is is more likely to be cold due to the lower divorce rate?

Do you think its oxymoronic that the increased body heat generated between the married couples in the more married states don't keep them warmer than their neighbors?

Mr. Wondering

OK I realize I am mixing some apples with oranges for the original post is NOT about affairs..but about divorces...

see I told you I was easily confused...

but I do believe that most people getting divorced who claim a religious affiliation would not ascribe that as their most holy and Godly time in their lives ...

ARK

Nothing keeps a marriage better than a good old Noreaster blowing round outside....

comfort food on the stove
fire softly burning...
roads too treacherous to navagate...


Nirvana...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think Ark's onto something here. It does not appear weather was factured or considered into the statistics.

Better weather creates more opportunity for socialization. More socialization creates more opportunity for straying, misbehaving, and subsequently divorcing. Just look at the statistic for any northern metropolis...there is much more crime in the summer than in the winter.

Mr. Wondering

plus cold people show less skin....cause they don't want to get the tips of anything getting frost bit....:)

heehee

arkie