Well, yes and no. Spent all day on the verge of tears. I was so upset I even ate meat for lunch! Sat there at a fast-food restaurant tearfully eating chicken. Ugh.

WH came by to pick up DD. Of course she had a Valentine's card to give her daddy, but she didn't have one to give to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Even though he brought one for her.

I called him on it and he looked like he felt bad. He was surprised when she handed him the card and said, "I thought we were going to wait until she was big enough to sign her name."

I replied, "Well, that's what parents and kids do for each other. She's too little to shop, so you have to help her. She loves both of us and would want to give us Valentines. If you still lived here, would you have bought me a card from her?" He said yes, so I said, "If you want things to be as normal as possible for her through this, you have to grow up and do those things. That's part of being a good dad."

Grr. I hope he felt like the a-hole he has become. What's she going to think when she's older, going through scrapbooks... "Gee, Mommy. Why didn't I give you a birthday card? Or a Christmas card? Or a Valentine's Day card? Didn't I love you?"

After they left, I got really depressed. I had to get out of the house, so I decided to go get something to eat. Couldn't decide what I wanted, so I drove around for a while. Drove past all the restaurants where happy couples were standing outside and started crying thinking about V-days past. Ended up at the local microwave-Mexican joint and lo and behold a friend was there, so we ate dinner together.

Then he brought DD home, told her happy Valentine's Day and left without another word to me. What a jerk. What a JERK!! Thank the Lord yesterday is over.

I don't know where you are emotionally as far as trying to avoid the divorce. Timeline wise, you and I are at the same place. We have close D-days, we both filed for the D and seem to have WH that never sat on any fence. I don't think I want a divorce, I will be fine if it happens. I do think I want my WH to want me, I just don't know if I want him.

If you want to try to avoid the divorce, may I make a suggestion?? Try to ensure that every interaction with WH leaves him feeling good about himself. I know that is hard when every single thing they do is absurd, but... If he always associates sadmommy with an a$$ chewing, he will never see any reason to give the marriage a chance.

Like I said, I know it is hard to not call them on their assinine behavior. Every single thing my WH is stupid. But my goal is to have him divorce me with as many doubts about his decision as possible. If he insists on the D, I do want him to know that it was all him, I was ready willing and able to work through this.

Now, if you are fully comfortable and happy about the divorce, then carry on with reaming him every time he deserves it, throw a few zingers in there for me too! But if you have any fight left in you, I just hope you consider what I said.

Our WH's are bound and determined to do this thing just so they don't have to admit they made a mistake. Let's at least leave them thinking how bad they are screwing up-even if they never admit it. I personally am still trying to plan A enough to plant the seed of doubt.

I don't know what I would do if he did have second thoughts, I just want to be given the chance to find out.

He is out there hon.

I suggest? Lectures to the aliens will not be understood.

It is as though you said "WH, gleark rekl;as tlelsk Valentine's Day"...for that is ALL THE ALIEN heard!

It is like speaking to a Chinese person and all you say to them is in English...(assuming they do not already speak English that is!)...get it?

He can't fathom ANYTHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIMSELF.

It is sad.

I remember the first Vday card I got from my "son"...it was a snoopy card from one ADULT to another...and was signed in my son's four year old handwriting...which was really scribbles. It said "your butt was cute" or something in it like that...obviously it was from my then WS. Attached was a teeny box of chocolate. I found out the wistress got roses and stuff from Victoria's secret...found it out in divorce court btw!

Vday is just a day. But to IGNORE it says volumes about the other person.

Proceed ahead. And I'd go back to PLAN B NOW! obviously he doesn't get things...and I would push for NO OVERNIGHT VISITS WITH OPPOSITE SEX WHEN DD IS UNDER CUSTODIAL ROOF"...I had that written in. But my xh was too saavy being he resided in gated community and had the security on alert for MY hiring PI's to scope him out and show he was lying with the ow under the roof when my son visited.

He doesn't get it yet.

It will take for SOME WS imho...to have their world crash down upon them. For his LIFE TO CHANGE DRAMATICALLY...such as limited time legally with his child...to see his whole world crashing..for reality to MAKE HIM WANT TO CHANGE.

don't help out the WS. Not even by giving him a card. Let him feel what it's like.

Buy him a book on parenting by Dobson. I'd do that. I gave my xh "bringing up boys" for our first fathers' day apart. I left a bookmark in the chapter, which I bent back pages and even highlighted, the part about where it says It is incredibly damaging to have in complete open in front of kids a live in mistress or have immorality such as affairs".....especially to boys. teaching that this is how a dad should live basically. And I also included for him a bookmark from his favorite president and mine, reagan...

and later on gave him a book written from Reagan's son...a book where he goes on to say how devastated his father was when their MOM (first wife of Reagan) left as she had an AFFAIR with a costar on a movie set.

I will never know if he read it...but my gut says he did since he kept my plan B letter and little gold wedding band sealed and hidden away from OW/W for 3 years now.

I believe firmly YOU MUST LET THE MAN FALL. Let the total effects of both plan B and the D come down upon him dear.

Only then may the alien feel any pain. Only then will possibly motivation for change occur.

Right now, he thinks he CAN HAVE IT ALL...DD AND HIS OW...AND HIS "FIX"...IT IS YOUR JOB TO SHOW HIM THAT IT CANNOT SUCCEED.

Even if he gets ow...here is the reality. Read my history. He will get the unholy prize. The ho-woman of his dreams. And they will shack up. Live marginally happy for maybe a year? Then all the "right" reasons they seek will crash down.

I see it all the time when I lurk on gloryb. The women/mistress who actually BREAK UP THE MARRIAGES...they rarely have success even when the divorces happen.

Any wonder why my xh is so unhappy?

I have searched for answers why my xh did this for so long now. And I see no sense in any of his stupidity at all. No sense whatsoever. Period.

But you continue to press ahead legally. Do what the LAW SAYS TO DO...not give in to any ALIEN DEMANDS with regards to the divorce.

Hi, Jean. Emotionally, I hate to say it, but I am definitely ready to be divorced from this joker. At first I wanted our marriage more than anything. But seeing what he is capable of, the kind of person he's become... Fog or no fog, I don't need that drama in my life.

Yes, it's sad, but I feel like EVERYTHING I have experienced since September is screaming at me to lose the loser. There never was any sitting on the fence as far as he is concerned, unless that was going on before he left and I just didn't notice b/c I was so busy being a new mom. Regardless, it's over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Peach. Yep, he's out there. WAAAAY out there.

I guess I just want him to be logical and reasonable like I have been. It's so hard for me to understand why he'd be so selfish. Mom says it's just men in general, but I'd like to believe there are some good ones out there...

As far as the legal stuff goes, you better believe I'm not backing down. Not one inch until the judge tells me so. He's not going to leave me and our DD in financial ruin as he goes on to his fantasy land.

And yep, I know that whatever they have won't last. It just makes sense. Relationships that begin in such untrustworthy circumstances are on shakey ground. I'm to the point now of.. "If he chooses that skanky OW over his loving, faithful wife and mother of his child, then they DESERVE each other." And I'm going to be on the sidelines, watching their world implode.

OK then, ream him good for me too then!

Do you think you got OK with the divorce in a lightbulb moment, or was it just a slow chipping away at what love you had left?? Curious for my own sitch...

I am glad that you are more in sync than I am. Hopefully, soon your WH will just be a small irritation in your life instead of all this junk.

Interesting question, Jean, and I haven't really thought about it. Can I say, a combination of the two?

For a while, I was desperate to have our family back. But constant exposure to his careless, cold, selfishness chipped that away. But in a way, it was a lightbulb moment, too, when I drove by her place back in October and his truck was there both late at night and early the next day, I snapped. No way was I going to fight to be with someone who disrespected me so much. I know I deserve more. DD deserves more. At that moment, I knew that if he ever wanted to come back, I would never be able to trust him again, if he was capable of doing THAT. Seeing it with my own eyes made it real. Now, it seems like every encounter I have with him simply reinforces it.

Very sad, and I absolutely hate it, I really really do. I really wanted us to be a success story. I have prayed practically the same prayer every day since he left, asking God for guidance, asking Him to show me the path He wants me to take. Asking him to help me do what's best for DD and me. And everywhere I look, it's like God showing me WH and I don't belong together. As much as I don't like the idea that my life and DD's life won't be the way I planned, I have to accept His plan.

Are you in Plan A or B?

Honestly, I'm in plan "survive the divorce in one piece and get on with my life." I hate that it has to be that way, but I have no hope whatsoever of my H ever coming back. And besides, having some distance now and some perspective, I don't want him back.

It hurts like heck to say that, but that's how I'm feeling right now.

Oh boy... more mama drama, and this is gonna be long. Please bear with me. On Weds, she said she planned to come move in with DD and me after her upcoming surgery b/c things are going bad with the BF again (cheating, drugs, etc). While I would love to have her nearby (she's 800+ miles away), I can't see her living with us. She can be hard to be around, and I know it would be a drain on our already too tight finances. Plus, there are just too many uncertainties right now... not knowing when the big D will be done and legal, when I'll have to sell the house, where DD and I will be living... So when she said she planned to move in, I very calmly and carefully told her the above fears. The results? I'm selfish and think only of myself. She's been here for me since WH left, and she asks me for ONE thing... that's what she told my aunt.

And here's some snippets of what she wrote to me in an email:

"Don't worry about me...don't worry about anything concerning me and my future. Just take care of DD and yourself and make sure the both you have the best life possible. Nobody can "save" me, and it's nobody else's responsibility to do so. I honestly do not blame you for feeling the way that you do. I'm not a fun person to be around very often, and my bouts of depression are not something you or DD need to be subjected to, anyway.

I had my chances and I blew them. Now it is up to me to deal with those choices, even if I feel I'm too old and too tired to start all over again. Nobody can fix what's wrong in my life, but me, and I have to want to make the effort before any progress can happen. I chose to stay at home to raise you kids instead of going to college and if I had that to do over again, I'd chose to stay at home to raise you kids instead of going to college. Even though those years were not all peaches and creme, at least we tried the best we knew how to.

I'm sorry for not living up to be the person and the mother you expected me to be, nor expected to stay that way. I'm sorry you have ended up in the same catagory that most people you know have ended up with...because being from a broken home was not your idea of the perfect life you had planned on having. Now DD too is the product of the same "broken home", but you are young enough, talented enough, smart enough sweet and beautiful enough to find another, truer love to make a new family for her to grow up in.
Don't stay bitter and end up alone, like I probably will.

...I'm not trying to upset you in any way by sending you this email. I have done enough of that in the past. I basically do not know why I'm even typing the thoughts that I am typing to send to you besides letting you know that I do understand why you don't want me there with you and that you are scared about what is going to happen with you and DD and how you have to put yourselves first. I'm glad that you know how to do that. I never learned how, and am at a loss. I've always had someone to take care of, and once I won't have that, and will just have myself to worry about....will be at a total loss. I don't know how to take care of just me. I've got to learn to rely on me, myself and I, and not to count on anyone for anything ever again, because no matter how nice, nor how good I've been to other people, it all really comes down to "you are on your own, kid" in the end anyway.

I wish I had more positive things to say, and maybe one day I will, but today is not one of those days.. Today I think the best thing that could happen for me and for everyone concerned would be to go to sleep for this surgery on Tuesday and just not ever wake back up. I know in my heart that you kids can and will make it on your own and you really don't need me in order to do so. Besides, my Life Insurance could really do alot for each of you in your lives. Oh, it might hurt for a while, but eventually you all will be able to say, "at least she's not suffering in pain anymore." and go on with your day to day lives. Perhaps that's not a very comforting thought at this time, but since it is a possibility, I thought it should be shared.

Talk to you latr...
Love,
Mom "


What the he11 am I supposed to do now? I'm worried about Mom. She's clinically depressed and emotionally unstable. I talked with my aunt about it for over two hours last night. We are both so worried about her and don't know what to do.

Tell her that you love her and need her to stick around. Tell her AGAIN that you are in no position to have her move in, and that it wouldn't be fair to her. Ask her to get some counseling.

You did very well. You need boundaries, and it would be crazy to try to help her now.

Oh that's a tough one on you. Since you really needed a second act to this drama.
But darn those people we love-they can sure hurt us the most.

Don't take any of it personally. And please don't feel guilty. (I know, easier written than lived). You said she's depressed, so I am sure most of that rambling is coming from all of that.

I agree with Believer. Tell her of course you want her to stay around. Tell her you want DD to KNOW her grandma--and keep as much family as she can.

Can you maybe suggest she move to the area you live--so she won't be 800 miles away..that way you can be there to help her and vice versa.? And DD will grow up knowing her.

One of the problems is, she's not self-sufficient right now. She's on disability from work and doesn't make enough to live by herself and pay her insurance premiums. She would have stay with us, at least temporarily.

My aunt emailed me this a.m. saying she'd found a pastor who lives near Mom. She called him this a.m. and he's supposed to pay Mom a visit. Hopefully that'll help. Can't see how it could make things worse...

Thank you for the encouragement, everyone. It's hard to feel like I'm doing the right thing when I'm being bombarded with the drama. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Is there any possibility she could qualify for social security disability (not being able to work permanently)?

Your mom is giving you babble guilt talk. Similar to what a WS does. Scary isn't it?

Ok, you love your mom....she has issues....she does need assistance. What t/d?

Get a plan.

Contact all your siblings.....and her siblings, let them know she needs help and ask each to come prepared for a 'family discussion'. Prepared to talk about options even if it includes moving her around in increments. Have those checkout care options or therapy centers in their area. Consider cost and financial assitance and placement centers. Ask the doctor for suggestions. Call social services. There are options. You have to be resourceful.

The options may not be what she wants but it is not just her wants that need t/b considered. It includes the limitations on those available. Make sure you can distinguish between legtimate reasons and excuses. Sacrfices needs to be had by all. Should not be a burden only on one or some.

Don't baby her medical recovery. From the looks of that e-mail, your mom is a manipulator. Knowing that should make your assistance take a different angle. Help but don't enable.

I post this because I have been through this w/my MIL. If I had let her, she'd move in with us.....she even asked me before we were married less than 1 year. YIKES!!! She wanted to move in with us and leave her home where her teenage children where living.....she was willing to leave her children alone so she could have what she called 'peace and quiet'. YIKES!!! I told her no but that I would have her over for dinner once a month. LOL!!! Well that's not what she wanted so the invites soon ceased. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She survived...... she whines when she can but doesn't whine to me anymore. I still love her but have learned to handle her as needed. Even got the family together (6 out of 10 children) and FIL to work out a plan.

Hope this helps.
L.

Yes... it does seem a lot like babble. Orchid, since you're the expert on reverse babble, how do you RB your mom? I haven't even talked to her since she sent me the email. I have no idea how to respond.

My brother and his GF came to take DD and me out to dinner last night. He read the email, too. He talked to her on my phone for a while, but not about anything important. He told me he didn't know what to do either. The thing is, no one is in a position to do much. He and the youngest brother live together, and it's a struggle for them to get by. Mom has three sibs... the sister who is trying to help, and two bros who don't. One has problems of his own, the other doesn't talk to us much.

On a lighter note, church was EXHAUSTING this morning keeping up with DD. She was so busy, walking around in circles at the back of the sanctuary, making friends in the pews. Toward the end of the service, she managed to make it all the way up to the altar. So the pastor scooped her up and finished the service holding her. I was mortified, although everyone thought it was darling!

Here's my type of reply:


[color:"blue"]Dear Mom,

Your letter was long and full of pain. I will try to understand. I have not been in your situation and yes, there are priorities in my life now.

You are my mother and I love you dearly. That is why I had to take time to give careful thought to how I respond to you.

Your letter carries the tone that you are afraid of taking care of yourself and you have realized some of your past mistakes. While we can help you with your current situation, your past mistakes will have to be something you learn from so we all don't have to suffer from them again.

Yes, we must give you support as a family. I am calling a meeting of our family to explore care options. I ask you be open to all suggestions and hear everything out completely. It would be helpful for you to write down some questions you may have. We will not have all the answers at that meeting but will divy up the research responsbility. It would benefit you to do as much research as you can since this is being done for your benefit.

I have already contacted the family. Our meeting is setup for: ___/____/___ __:___ pm at: _________. Please come.

Thanks for letting us know you need help. It is important we call lend a hand so the full care does not rest on only one person's shoulders.

I ask that you be understanding as you have indicated you would be.

Love,
Your daughter. [/color]

Ok.....that's my version.....

take care,
L.

Thanks, Orchid. It's hard to get our stuff together, since we're scattered around the country. We're talking 3 different states. I'll see what I can do...

So I've talked to her a couple times since the email. We haven't really discussed it yet. She's going into surgery tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. Eastern time. It's going to be 4-5 hours long. I had no idea it was going to take so long, and she's never been out for that long. They're going to take bone from her hip to fuse some joints in her spine, and they go in through the front! The recovery period is 8 weeks, but she'll probably end up needing the other side done, too.

Please keep her in your prayers!

I like Orchid's idea of letting the whole family be involved.

Prayers to your mom tomorrow.