The Bird. I did not have to explain a thing. He told her of his little game with me. I shouldnt of stooped down to that level, i guess it's the south side in me (south side columbus, where i was raised). I apologized and that seemed to be it.

We must of spoke 2-3 hours on the phone today. She calls me, we actually talk. Its hard for me alot of times. But i feel i need it. I have not had this much talk/attention from her for years. I know, i said this in an earlier post. Each talk it does seems as though things go just a little bit better. I know before i said she was driving me nuts. But lately, the more we talk, the less we bring up things in the past, far less angry outbursts (mainly her, i have control now, well, minus the bird incident yesterday).

We spoke for awhile this afternoon. But tonight was a bit harder. I had my boys all weekend and droped them off at 5.30 or so at her place. Then I went home and rode over to the local watering hole with my father to watch the superbowl and have a few drinks. We left right after the game to go home.

She called me shortly after i got home. She was fixing the boys something to eat, it was about an hour past their bedtime. After i asked she told me they went over to OM's house so the boys could watch the game with his kids, she ended up going back into one of the rooms to lay down and fell asleep so when i asked how the kids felt about the game she did not know. She did tell me the older son kept checking on her though.

That part of our talk was hard for me to get through. She speaks to me of stuff like this as if it has been going on forever (hanging at OMs home, etc) and i should not be bothered by it. It does bother me but she didnt know that.

We spoke awhile and she went to bed. I guess its worth something to me thinking im the last person she speaks to before going to bed and one of the first in the morning. Maybe im not, but it seems like it.

--

MrLocked,

Although I am sure it's extremely hard on you to hear, I think it may be a good sign that she's talking to you about the OM. Most WS's won't even admit there is an A, and they talk to the OP about YOU, but rarely is it the other way around. She basically confiding in you, and that's a good thing.

As far as filling the EN's for domestic support if you are living separately....do you keep your house clean to her standards?? It could help if she sees that you are keeping your house as clean as she would.

I think you did fine when face to face with the OM, don't let that discourage you.....he's lucky all he got was the bird..LOL!!! You have a lot more restraint than I would've had <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (That's definitely a good thing).

My husband grew up on the South End too.....so I know a little about that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Does your WW like music? I burnt my WH a CD of songs about the way I felt. It seems like he *gets it* a little better when I do it that way.

Inviting her over for breakfast was a great idea...do more things like that.

Do little thoughtful things like buy her some cookies she likes and send them with the kids when they go.

Go through your pictures and find some of you two having fun on vacation, or at a picnic or whatever and simply write on the back "Remember how much fun we had that day?" or a picture of her in the hospital when she had your son and say "This was one of the most special days of my life..."

Stuff like that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

-Caren

P.S. How old are you Locked??? Maybe you know my husband....eeeek LOL

Oh, your poor sons. I'm so sorry. Talk to them about their feelings and thoughts. Just listen. This has to be so confusing and painful for them. They may feel part of her betrayal. Focus on them, too, 'k?

Let them know you're working on saving the marriage and that they mean so much to you.

Did you call OM's xwife to expose?

You're doing well, but I don't know about the 2-3 hour conversations. May want to keep them down to an hour or less. I think her #1 EN is attention, though you put family commitment. And yes, about the bird, try to not stray into her drama. She is thriving off of it. Looking him in the eye, just once, is enough. Hold your head up and walk out.

"Financial Support; This one has never been a problem, I now that, she acknowledges it. And I still fill this need (obviously I have kids that need support)." I don't understand this statement and the fact that you guys are strapped? You're in Plan A and have to look at the status of filling those ENs now. Any ideas?

(When you expose to OM's XW, you could ask how he is at paying child support?) Oh, the evil side of me does show, doesn't it? I'm thinking this guy has to pay, too. They arranged it so off the cuff...makes me wonder.

Let me know what you thought of my previous post.

LA

Hi Caren!

Im 39. I was born and raised on the south side of Columbus, parsons avenue/whittier avenue area, South High School. Lived there 20 years or so. Its a slum now.

Yes, its really hard hearing her talk about the OM. We had discussions that went along the lines of "Yes everybody knows im seeing OmNameHere". We have not got into it in a few weeks but back then she still insists she is doing nothing wrong. It almost seems she is doing this on purpose to get a reaction out of me. Just, strange..

On your domestic support question. Thats where it gets wierd. When we first met i was a clean freak. She was not. When we moved in together she went jobless, so I worked all day and into evening and she stayed home with our oldest (i adobted him 5 years ago, Feb 14th was the day the adobtion was final). She did not clean, I could not keep up with it. I hated it, couldnt have visitors, etc. This went on for years and i finally gave up. The last few years is when this seemed to become important to her.\

But yes, the place i live is pretty close to spotless. When i visit her place i find myself picking up things (that the dog drug out), etc, still trying to help.

Its funny, and at times makes me angry. She is actually keeping a clean home and keeping up on chores. I told her i was happy and proud of her for doing so. But damn, it upsets me, that was always one of my biggest issues.

She is into music big time, mainly country. But yes thanks for the suggestion. We both spend alot of time on the net and i find myself sending her songs that i just now 'get' and relate to.

Thanks for the other suggestions.

Take care. Time to hit the sheets.

--

LA,

Yes! I have been doing just that. My youngest (almost 10)does not seem to be phased to much by any of this, my older son (12) is. He really will not open up to me much but he is starting to a little bit at a time. One of his friends dad's is the OM. This makes things for him that much harder.

On OM's XW, i called once and got no answer but I did mail out an exposure letter. I have not heard anything about this yet. Included was all of my contact info.

Our conversations were not one solid 2-3 hour talks. They were split into two longer calls and several short ones.

On Financial Support. I give her child support now that she asked for, plus monies to cover other expenses I agreed to help with. I am not paying her bills but I am doing what she expects. I am supposed to be doing this regardless thats why i feel i still have this need covered. Does that make more sense?

When WW brought up that crazy summertime let the kids decide where they stay idea, she told me thats what OM and OM's XW do. She also told me that neither one of the pay child support, which i believe to be a lie he told her. In Ohio, isnt it required someone does pay regardless of your arangements.

I have to finish some Monday morning work crap and then im going to respond concerning your previous post.

Thanks

--

MrLocked-

Hey, I have to jump in the shower and run and get my license plates (I sorta forgot to get them on my birthday, so I've been running around on expired tags..LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />)then head to work.

I will be on this evening. Hope your day is going well.

God Bless,

-Caren

WW calls me earlier this morning about our oldest boy. He called her twice this morning from school not feeling well. She thinks there is something else going on. He waited two more hours and asked to come home so i picked him up.

I tried talking with him during the drive back and when i got home and he insists nothing is wrong, his stomach aches. He does seem down. He has been acting this way for awhile.

WW thinks something else is bothering him. She cant figure out what it could possibly be. Is she brain dead? I know exactly what is wrong with him. He misses his family being together, way to much change way to quick (the injection of OM into their lives instantly). He has talked to me before, during XMas, a few times in January. Lately though he does not want to talk but i know alot about what is on his mind.

sorry.. wanted to vent a sec. Got to try to finish my day at work.

LA,

I read your post at least a dozen times. I agree with kds. A lot of your post has got me really thinking.

I do not know why I think the way I am. I know that anything is possible. I used to say that if I was ever betrayed by my wife that would be it, done, goodbye. And here I am willing to do anything to get her back. What she is doing now really does not change how I feel. I really do know that she did not throw away the possibility of a happy marriage. I believe it can happen. It just seems so impossible at times.

I just get so confused on what to do. I have really been working hard on ‘plan a’ but damn I feel like I keep screwing that up too.

Our oldest son has had a rough few weeks. He has always had problems with anger, controlling himself. He can be really mean to people and he does not even realize it. He has really been acting out lately. She believes that a lot of his problems are that mom and dad are split up, moving to a new home, etc. is probably why he is acting this way. She includes all details of the changes except the part where mommy was sneaking around with the kids having an affair on their father and now this OM is a full-time part of their life.

Tonight she calls me and tells me they had some breakthrough with my son. Keeping in mind I was supposed to stop by her place tonight but was blown off. Their breakthrough was that our son had another episode while they were at OM’s home. They are there or OM is at her place all the time. I guess older son got into it with WW, then got into it with OM. OM supposedly talked some sense into him where as me and WW never could. OM made him realize that he treats people pretty crappy. WW came home with kids and older son went into bedroom crying and talking how he owes so many people an apology for how he has treated them.

If OM actually did help him realize his mistakes that’s wonderful. But it still upsets me. And she knew it. She tried to guilt me for being upset over this and that just made me more upset. It was just really hard. I may have said a few things I shouldn’t have but I couldn’t help it. I just do not understand any of this. She does not try to hide, I get to hear all the details of her and OM and my children and when I get upset about it, im the bad guy. I try my hardest not to.

Sometimes I just wish she would go back to lying to me. Crazy isn’t it.

--

Well, isn't that great? OM first assaults the family, and now counsels your son. What a bunch of CR*P!!!!!

Sounds like your wife is still very, very foggy. You need to take care of yourself for now. Do the best that you can for your sons. It's not going to be easy with their crazy mom and the OM in the picture.

MrLU,

So your oldest got counseled by the guy breaking up his family and came to see the light of his ways. Now, he not only is betraying you by being around OM and his sons, but he's the bad guy, too.

This is so messed up...listen to believer. Your son is acting out and he has reason to--he is lost as to what is happening, changing. You leaving. Her having the affair. And himself looking around for an adult to stop the madness. He was probably crying from the futility, feeling at fault. OM pointed out his faults with no fingers pointing at himself. Confusion brings tears, too. Frustration. You know that. You got all this from a foggy spectator who has to make you not only suffer for imagined transgressions, but to make you like it. Accept it. Buy into the pretend with her.

During our messed up time, my youngest was 14 and shoplifted a couple of times and then got caught. Know what his Dad did a week later? Took him on a date with his girlfriend and her two kids. My son was so lost and confused. I had no idea. I was in Houston visiting my parents. When I got home, my son had to ask me who this woman was. I was horrified. I know many know what you're feeling. It is part of the pretending of the affair, with both partners buying into the fantasy and dragging their children into a not real world.

Horrible. My youngest then went on to act out at school, get drunk for the first time, arrested, suspended. Anger issues? No, reality issues. He saw adults not defending their boundaries, not dealing in reality. It is maddening to be told by your parent, the one who taught you to tie your shoes, do math, play ball, that what you see, hear and feel isn't really happening. Everything is hunkey dorry. Maddening. Displacing.

You can't fight fantasy and make others not try their darnedest to make you into the bad guy. If you weren't, who would be? Can't be them! Your part is not to buy it. Talk with him on the phone, find out his thoughts and feelings, reassure him, listen and validate his reality.

It is his. He's not a mess.

How he treats people is his business. He will learn. He is loved by you even when he doesn't do the right thing.

What is crappier in treating people than to be in an affair?

I don't care what your son has done, it can't be as horrible as that?

LA

At the later part of last week she wanted to see about getting him some conseling but was worried about the expense. She told me she could have an outsider talk with him (can you guess who she wanted to talk with him, the OM). Oh man...! I flipped, no way i would agree to that. I said dont worry about money i will go without food and electric to pay for it before i am willing to agree to let the OM be the 'outsider to talk to'. That worked out wonderfully i would say. Guess I get to eat this week.


"You need to take care of yourself for now."... What exactly do you mean. Sorry, late, tired.. etc...

LA,

Thanks. I wish i had the ability to get stuff out like you do.

--

Practice, MrLU...practice. Stay here and spill. Spill it all over and get used to saying your thoughts and feelings. Gets easier in real life, too.

You flipped out. What were your emotions? I flip out over a heating bill. Maybe your flip out is different than mine?

You are the most important ear your son can have. You are his father figure. What you have to refrain from is dumping your feelings on him. I don't see that as being something you do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We got YS into counseling last March. Big waste. Again, all counselors are not good. They're human. They can slide through and let your kid slide through, too. Family counseling is what I would recommend, with a counselor who specializes in children and marriage. Heckuva idea, eh?

Taking care of yourself...writing in a journal all your emotions and being starkly honest. Seperating what is being done to you and what your part may have been. Not attempting to solve but examine. No plotting but a real "Come to Jesus" getdown with yourself. Making sure you have enough sleep, breaking your obsessvie thought patterns (if you have them), exercising, limiting distractions, reading all these books recommended. Practicing deep breathing, meditation, darning your socks...whatever you need to do for you that you haven't even thought of.

That's easy, huh?

Give yourself hugs, massage your feet. Heck, I'm a woman, so I don't know what is off limits to men. Still, meeting some of your own needs...journaling is like conversation, has that attention component. Hugs and massages are similar to affection. Write fifty things you are proud of in your life, might help with admiration and appreciation.

Lots of stuff. And no, we didn't think you could figure it all out for yourself. You're a human in pain. And you're here. And we're here.

LA

My emotions, hmm.. very upset. I couldnt believe she was even considering letting OM consel my son let alone expect me to be ok with it. Thats just nuts. I had a brief moment of raising my voice but my feelings were let known.

No dumping on the kids. They have enough to deal with as it is.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Will definitly try to work on some of those.

nite

--

"Thanks. I wish i had the ability to get stuff out like you do."

You really want to, or are you just saying that?

I ask because your expression of emotion is saying your truth, that your emotions are very upset. Which emotions are you feeling?

Some more of that self care stuff that isn't as fun as rubbing your own feet.

LA

Got call at 7.30am from WW, said my DS9 was sick can she drop him off. He got here about 7.40am, said he had a headache and he looked very tired. He layed on the couch for several hours sleeping and watching TV and then he seemed fine for rest of the day. I worked all day so did not get to do much with him. Its my day with boys anyway.

Got my DS12 about 5.30 and had them till 9. We just hung out, had pizza, worked on one of their school projects. Normally we do something.

Took them home and said my good-bye's. Was getting ready to leave and WW says 'You do not have to leave yet if you dont want to'. Ok, I will hang out till boys go to bed, i miss telling them goodnight. Ended up staying till just about 10.15 then got up to go.

I gave her a hug goodbye which lasted a good deal of time, pulled back to say something and we ended up kissing. I stopped after a few minutes went back to hugging said goodnight and came home.

Should I even be doing stuff like that? I wanted to. I am still in Plan A.

LA, I will get back to you shortly. Got to finsh some work quick but wanted to post that just in case i do not get back.

--

Yet another question. Spoke with WW today trying to work out details with the boy's games this weekend. Both have a game on Saturday and DD12's last game is Sunday. I will be at both games Saturday with her, OM will not be around. Sunday, OM will probably be going to DD12's game with my WW.

I HAVE to go to my boys last game, but she's gonna be dragging that beast along with her. A friend of mine said she would go with me to the game to keep my mind ocupied and off of wanting to start trouble. Im not going to start trouble but it would be nice to have someone to talk with.

Im guessing since this is a female friend im kinda iffy if i should let her go. Thoughts?

Thanks

--

"Im guessing since this is a female friend im kinda iffy if i should let her go. Thoughts?"

You have good instincts. Going with a female friend (who knows of your problems and is being supportive...hey,hey,hey)...very iffy. No, Mr. Really not a good idea.

Male friend...more than one? Oh, yeahhhhh.

Did you tell WW while working out the details, "You're bringing OM to the game Sunday? I feel torn. I want to be their for DD, and I feel the pain of seeing you and your affair partner together already. Feels like I am swallowing glass."

Just wondered.

LA

P.S. Then again, if they are there and you're there with your buddies, then you can all casually walk over on your way out and instead of giving him a certain finger, you can say, "Honey? Loved kissing you the other night. Can we do it again, soon?"

LA,

Not those exact words but yes the WW knows it hurts me. Her response "I can not control who shows up at the boys games". Shes a total nutbag right now.

She is feeling some of the effects of exposure. How do i know. I got chewed out today. Not for any new exposure, but from awhile ago. Her family is turning against her and its 'all your fault' (meaning, mine). Imagine that. You make certain f'ed up decisions and its my fault nobody likes it.

Oh well.

Yeah, love your idea. Im sure he would like that. My luck that would backfire on me.

Take care...

--

Forgot to mention. She's fence sitting on the disolution paperwork. She couldnt wait to get that done and has had the paperwork in her hands for 10 days now. I know, not very long.. But she just couldnt wait. I can tell.

--

You might hear me nagging you about saying what you feel to your WW. I repeat it a lot. I'm hoping if I'm repeating it then you are...see, just like your response to the dissolution papers, "I don't do divorce, I do marriage. I would love to rebuild our marriage" over and over again each time it arises, so does, "Contact feels like..." and get creative. Describe your pain in different ways but same truth. Repeat it often pertaining to plans and contact.

You know, a light isn't singular when it shines through fog...it is a collection of thousands of nearly identical light beams...assaulting moist air. I wonder if that would answer why WS's are all wet?

She doesn't want to dissolve your marriage, Mr. You meet needs and are in her heart. You can't feel it or see it. Don't DJ and think, "She couldn't wait to get that done" because her anger said "My pain will stop with the stroke of a pen!" which isn't true and somewhere in there, her fear knows that.

Rejoice that she's fence sitting a bit, sorrow for the necessity at all, and continue saying your truth, giving yourself the love and care you've neglected to do for a long time, get closer to your boys and daughter, and know that this hero's journey isn't over in a day. You're one of the good guys. You can do this!

LA