I dropped the boys off earlier at her home, Wednesday, my night with boys. I was foolish enough to get into a conversation with her. It was not long until the conversation turned against me.

It went from how I keep hurting her by mailing her best friend today to how i keep going against her wishes and talking with her family and hurting her that way.

Was there about an hour or so and her cell rings half a dozen times, she will look see who it is then silence it. I was getting tired of the BS and getting ready to leave and finally told her just answer the phone, OM wont stop calling untill you do.

'Its not OM. I broke up with him for you'. Ok, its not OM, who is it. 'Its AnotherMaleNameHere'. Geez, great. She was up in a town north of here earlier this evening letting off steam (as she put it) about what i did today, now the cell is ringing off the hook. Ok, I got a bit upset said goodbye and was trying to leave and she stops me.

Whats wrong now? He is just a friend. Where have I heard this before. For all I know it could of been the OM and she's toying with me. Heck I dont know.

I edited what I originally wrote here. I am now wondering if some of this was her own little way of playing a game with me? And if she did break it off with the OM, she seems to be trying to play the field, or maybe she wants it to appear that way. I don't know. How to proceed....

--

MrLocked-

I apologize for not posting to you in a few days, I've been sorta down in the dumps.

Just assume it was OM on the phone......

Send her the flowers, just say something short and sweet. Maybe a line from your wedding vows like: For Better Or Worse, Love MrLocked.

I think that would be sufficient and continue to drive your point home.

I'm sorry I can't think straight to be of more assistance.

Keep up the good work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren--

I have been reading your thread and understand. I hope things get better for you soon. I can certainly understand how thinking straight is hard for you now. Is for me most of the time anymore.

I did have flowers delivered today with a short note. She liked them.

Take care caren

--

Sooooooooooooo what'd the *short note* say??? C'mon don't be shy!! LOL

Don't worry about her being mad that you're exposing. They get that way. I would suggest that if you have other people that you are thinking of exposing to, that you save them up, and don't expose a little at a time. You want to maximize impact. Also, I think I would be doing some more research to see if she is indeed still in contact with OM....I think that you need to know what's going on with that. (I figure she still is and is just trying to snow you).

My counselor (a year ago) told me that I should just keep repeating the same thing over and over to Mark. She called it "The broken record", that everytime he said something about the things I was doing (i.e. exposure) that I should say "None of this would be happening if you ended it with OW". I think there's some logic in that.

I see a whole lot of promise in your situation. I think this could work out very well.

I would like to know how you're doing though. You have to be careful with this Plan A stuff, that your love bank isn't getting too low. That the things she's doing aren't bothering you TOO much. Keep checking in with yourself about how you feel, because if you feel like this is all getting to be too much, that's when it's time to start considering Plan B. (I'm not implying you should do that yet, just make sure that you keep an eyeball on that Love Bank balance).

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren--

I will save them up, more exposure targets.

I have not driven by her home much lately to see if OM is around, the few times I have he has not been there. I used to drive by often and OM was there most of the time, this bothered me so i stopped. She still maintains that she has broken it off with OM. But I have no proof to confirm anything. Just her word, which I do not trust. I will have to find a way to snoop and confirm. I could just ask the boys, but that's questionable if i should or not.

I did something similar to what your counselor suggested, her response was 'nothing is going on anymore so its a waste of time and makes you look like a crazed maniac'. I laughed at this one. It makes me look crazy because im telling friends and family about MY WIFES infidelity. Gotcha!

How am I doing. Well, the Ad's are actually helping me more then I anticipated, but this week. bad bad bad bad. Monday was good, dinner with family, no talk but good. Wednesday, bad. Most of the day was the emotional rollercoaster for me. Thats when i contacted her best friend. What she does, and i let it bother me, is she will give me the 'do you really want me to hate you', 'and you want me to be to believe you want to work on the marriage', 'i was thinking about getting back together, but now', 'your making me hate you.' crap, stuff i been hearing for along time now. But when we talked Wednesday evening i took some of the stuff she was saying as she is not with OM, but is trying to date around with other OM's. That screwed me up. I was lucky to get 2, maybe 3 hours sleep. Yesterday was a lot of the same crap. Was down the entire day. Went to my bowling league first time in 3 weeks, hated every minute of it. Just not fun anymore...I slept last night, but as i normally do wake up all hours of the night.

Today has been a better day. But now its my mind playing with me. Its my weekend with the boys (and im picking up my daughter tonight from reynoldsburg) and every time I have the boys it takes all i have to not think about what she may be doing, who its with, etc etc. And then her little games. "When you come get the boys i may be in shower or getting ready, i have plans tonight", etc etc. Ok, so what. I say "Great, im glad you have plans. So do we, actually, company as well". Then of course comes the "May I ask what and with whom". She makes it a habit to advertise bits and peaces of what she is doing... i try not to ask questions.. not many anyway.. of course she was on phone 15 minutes later wondering if i was going to answer her.. Geez..

So yeah, up till this week I have been doing fine. The last few days have been very rough. Having a really hard time functioning, working, sleeping, eating, etc. But making it.

Anyway, talk more later.

--

Oh I want to add. My exposure to one person Wednesday. She was trying to make me feel bad because it made her cry for hours to the point she was throwing up because of it. This is probably good outcome of exposure right? I did not feel bad...

Hi, MrLU,

When you act from your code, you won't feel bad. You're letting her own her feelings and reactions. Excellent. In your marriage, you both bore the responsibility for each other's feelings...which creates a mess. Getting this straight is terrific.

Now, for the sleeplessness due to believing she's out to find other OMs...is it the fear that she won't stop with this? Is it the fear that this really does mean she doesn't want you? It's important.

This speaks of your fear of being replaced. Can you know you are not replaceable? Really know it? Then her actions, if this proves true, seem silly, don't they? I mean, you know this about you...about everyone. She doesn't. How much does it hurt from that perspective? If you can't be replaced (and you cannot be)...she can't succeed. No matter what she believes, it won't be true.

I do not believe going from one OM, breaking up and saying it is to keep the kids, then onto other OMs makes any sense. Didn't for me. I did that. That's how manipulative I was in my marriage. Didn't get the result I wanted out of poor DH with grinding pain into him (because he was the problem, I wasn't); nope, I had to act single and go on dates. My guilt grew bigger and bigger and it felt like anger and justification. One night, he's in the living room and I'm on match.com and I turn to him and say shrilly...

Why are you throwing me away?

Yup.

I did that. Turns my stomach even now. Telling truth for your sake, MrLU. I did that. Two months later, I'm sobbing in my bedroom, telling him how much I hate him because I can't replace him. That it sucks and it is unfair and wrong that no one can replace him. I'm totally lost and saying how much I hate that I love him. He kindly holds me because he's successfully replaced me in a week but doesn't mention that part.

So...your wife might be in a guilt/shame spiral...fill that void mania...it makes no sense. It is fog babble...and you know what the fog is really made of? Pain. Blinding kind. Running from pain gets you more pain, until you're surrounded.

You know this already.

LA

MrLocked-

I can identify with the sleeplessness.....AD's didn't help me in that respect either. I stayed up all night with flashes of my husband and the OW. I had this feeling like electric was running through my body....like every nerve was overloading on it. I couldn't stop myself from doing this....believe me I wanted to.

It's driving ME crazy not knowing what's going on with your WW and the OM....so I can imagine how you feel.

I think you should just go on the assumption that she is, until she provides evidence to the contrary. In fact, I think that is what you should tell her the next time she mentions that she's not seeing him anymore. Say "WW, I know that you keep saying that you are no longer seeing him, but until you can prove that to me and write an NC letter I will operate on the assumption that you are."

God Bless,

-Caren

Hi there, just checking in on you, I assume that you're busy with the boys.

I hope that you have a good weekend.

God Bless,

-Caren

Hi La!, Hi Caren!

I do not believe my sleep issues were only over her with OM or a new OM. She toys with me, I know this…I let it get to me those few days. She will speak of how she WAS thinking about working on things, then take it away because of something I done. Nothing new about this, she has been doing this for some time now. On OM’s, I think I fear mostly that she will not stop at this. She is so unpredictable lately. Typical I suppose. Maybe new OM’s talk and typical babble I got was to much at one time for me, dunno.

I have had sleep issues since this entire thing started. It began with not being able to sleep at all (few months back). Now, I can sleep…but I wake up many times a night. If I take something to help me sleep, I normally do not wake. At first thoughts of her with OM did keep me up, and on occasion still do. Most of the time though, I do not think about the OM. I wake up looking for her, sometimes wake up missing her and crying…a lot of times I just wake up and don’t know why and go back to sleep just to do it again in a few hours. I was a heavy sleeper, could sleep all day if left alone. Not anymore.

I used to look forward to naps. I took one most every day, normally around 5 or 6. Weekends, loved em. This talk, making me feel old. I can not nap anymore, cant do it, nope.

Caren, yes I told her that without proof of no-contact that I will presume the affair is still on (or another).

This is something that I have been battling with since d-day, speaking with her family and friends. I’m not talking about exposure. Before this started I did not really associate with many people, including family, my coping habits, hiding. Now…Well, this all shocked me back to life. I speak regularly with WW’s sister, sometimes her brother, and others. WW’s sister comes over every once in awhile and I keep her children over night sometimes when I have my boys. To me, her family is my family too, regardless of us being together or not. WW’s thoughts, they are no longer my family; I should have zero contact with her family, none.

When contact is discovered, I pay.. ‘why are you hurting me’, ‘I can never trust you’, ‘you know this hurts me and you do it anyway’….

Last night WW’s sister brought her boys over to stay with me and DS10 (DS12 was at friends overnight). They had fun. I had to take DS10 over to school for bball thing at 9, WW’s sister had not show up yet so I had to ask mother to come over and watch them while I ran DS10 to school.

WW was at school waiting for me and DS10. I was worried because I could not get a hold of WW’s sister. WW found out that her nephews stayed with me last night, she was po’d big time. Was talking of revenge on me. I made it through the game and came home.

WW dropped off DS12 and was still upset, got to talking outside and she started in the issue of trusting me, cant believe im doing this, threatening sleeping with someone to get me back, other threats, etc. I said something she did not like, about her family, she beats the crap outta me for a few seconds (kicks, punch, slap). I should have had her thrown in jail for assault, maybe it would of done her good. But did nothing.

Her sister showed up, she stormed out of there. So I ask, am I doing something wrong by keeping contact with WW’s family, letting nephews stay over, etc. I do not feel like im doing anything wrong, but she sure lays it on me thick trying to convince me otherwise.

Before we were talking she brought up that us getting back together would be hard, because she hates my daughter, my sister, my mother, etc.. and will not have anything to do with them. She has grown over the years angry at them all for some reason or another, but im wondering how this effects our chances of recovery. I told her, how she feels about them will have to be something we work out later. She said she refuses to.

anyway....

--

((((MrLU))))

I'm asking the Lord to get you out of your own way. I think it's a DJ, but I'm willing to take the wrath.

"I can not nap anymore" Try this, "I love napping. I am not able to do it right now." Tiny tinkering with your beliefs, 'k? Self comfort. You're in a really big "right now" but not never, ever, anymore or ever again thing. Feels like it. You're not. Know that you'll be able to again sleep well, refresh and nap sometime. Just not right now.

I like that when you wake in the night you accept you woke up and go back to sleep. Self acceptance.

"She will speak of how she WAS thinking about working on things, then take it away because of something I done." This is what her manipulation looks like. Raw. Not fog, not babble...before A, she was manipulative, also. Now raw, covert. She operates from this belief that she can control others in her life...cut them out, add them in, make them dance and respond to her expectations.

Her belief can change. You're aiding in it right now by each response you choose. "I hear you believed you could work on things until I did/said X. Then you choose not to work on our marriage." Listen and repeat. A blessing to your wife and to you. No judgment, no pain...you're an intelligent parrot, graciously handing her truth back to her. It's not yours. You don't allow yourself to take it on as yours. It's yucky. Hand it back.

"I think I fear mostly that she will not stop at this." You fear her choices. That fear is about you, not her.

"Before this started I did not really associate with many people, including family, my coping habits, hiding. Now…Well, this all shocked me back to life." We know where the lockedup came from...least I took it like this. Simplifying your life meant narrowing into pinhole size to you. Found out, that's not what the statement meant, huh? You are blessed to see and be seen now. To connect. To bless others with your words and presence. Big positive in my book...it took a walk through fire, but you're here, blessing others. Thank you.

Clarifying your life would be a better statement.

Seems ironic now that your wife wants to cut so many people out of hers to stop her fear of rejection? Sound familiar? Sounds like she feels unworthy and is angry, vengeful and believes she'll be protected from her own feelings by eliminating people. Hmmm.

Your change changed your dance with your WW. She doesn't know who you are now. She's not open to it. Doesn't trust changes. Is fighting changing herself really hard. Why, you're unpredictable to her. You share that, both of you, in your view of the other.

Find the payoff you had in not connecting to her family before, and the payoff she had in you not connecting.

You've upset that payoff. You are connecting. Involving. You found a bigger payoff for you and your children. You faced your fear; she hasn't.

Please listen and repeat..."Was talking of revenge on me." This was a critical time to do that.

"I said something she did not like," this can be listening and repeating.

Here is the biggest crime against yourself and your family you committed...

"But did nothing."

You stood in the way of her consequences and then expect her to learn from them. How disrespectful and arrogant. Why would you do that? You loved this woman...why manipulate her by not calling the police? She's attacking you on your property (demised premises) and your children are aware of it from inside...no doubt. You showed them that she is absolved from consequences. That you're not worth being human. That there is no law.

Do the hard thing. Step aside from your own self and take the scary step of saying, "This is abuse. Stop." Then call the police. Not as manipulation...but you would if she was doing it to your sons, your daughter, her sister....WHY NOT YOU?????

"maybe it would of done her good" That's why. Because you saw it as manipulation on your part. Then don't expect her to change, know, grow or anything else. You get in her way. You protect her from reality. You are the criminal.

Can you tell I'm mad? Two of you posters whom I care so much for and want to support, on the same day, were attacked by their friggin' wives AND did NOTHING.

Sorry. No bonfire today. My 2x4's are wet from tears.

When evil people act, and good people stand by and do nothing, then they choose evil.

"So I ask, am I doing something wrong" Of course not. You did something wrong before WW stormed off. This is a diversionary question. Distracting you from the enormity of your choices.

Your children's family is your family. Her issue is hers. Seperate from your manipulative, reactive, she made me perspective and get back to your code.

"but im wondering how this effects our chances of recovery. I told her, how she feels about them will have to be something we work out later. She said she refuses to."

You are wondering about a future with a woman who will kick, punch and slap you. Why?

Why?

LA

oh yeah, geez. I keep forgetting stuff. We did talk about NC letter briefly..."I have not had time!".... Been over a week...

--

That response is WS babble for: 'I ain't ready to do NC..... I still want t/b a 'WS'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

L.

LA,


This is a very good question. I really do not think I can answer it at the moment.

Had it been me kicking, slapping and punching I would be in jail, have a restraining order slapped against me and would probably not see my kids for a long time. I am not afraid to do something about it. I did not even think of doing something till after she left. Crazy I know.

Listen and repeat, yes I get that. I am doing so more and more. But… sometimes I do get to a point I DO feel like a parrot, and don’t know where to go next. Know what I mean? Im getting better at this stuff, but feel like I get stuck sometimes.

When she spoke of revenge, getting me back, I did listen and repeat (may not of mentioned this, was still fired up) and she after a few moments said no, she is not going to do that. That was at the school. I did not do such a great job of listening and repeating during our second confrontation….which a lot of the same things were said.

This woman, she has so many rules, manipulation strategies. This week I have broke a lot of them. Tonight, yet another will be broken. A threat, if I ever have someone over to watch my kids on my night so I can go out, I will pay. (as if I haven’t paid already eh).

A male friend, WW’s x-boss from years ago called me this afternoon. His wife is out of town on business and he asked if I wanted to grab a bite to eat, talk for a bit. I am taking him up on it. WW’s sister is coming over to watch the boys for a few hours, she owes me.

So tonight may still prove interesting. I see nothing wrong with this. If she catches wind, it could turn into a fun occasion.

Thanks LA for your post. I can tell you were upset. I really do not know what to say about all of this, you are right.

I have to get ready for dinner. Thanks again for the post.

--

While driving to dinner last night the brakes on my truck went out. Broke brake line, third time in three years a line went on this POS. I was still able to get to dinner and make it home. Spent some time in AM working on fixing the brakes, mission successful. Banged up a bit but I have breaks again. Kids, they were not happy. No fun stuff today.

WW calls me on the cell this afternoon, right after I dropped off my DD16 at her grandmothers in Columbus. She seemed to be in a very good mood. We talked of the boys, their weekend and some other various things. She wanted to know if when it was time for me to drop off the boys if I wanted to join them for dinner up north at one of our favorite restaurants and then do the meijers thing. Of course. She ended up picking us up at my place.

Dinner was OK. Hardly any talking, unless it was between us and the boys. Not that I was not trying, I was. The somewhat happy sounding woman i talked to earlier in the day now seemed distant, somewhat agitated or upset over something. Dunno, hard to figure out. I paid for dinner. We went to the store after dinner, was there awhile, she dropped me off and they went to their home.

Two family dinners within one week. I guess that's some improvement over the last several months.

--

MrLocked-

All this venom she is spewing is HER guilt.....she feels guilty about what she's doing to her family, and that guilt is pissing her off. She feels like "Why shouldn't I be able to be happy in fantasy land? Reality keeps coming along and screwing it up!!!!" <----------Disregard

My husband did the same thing during the stage that your talking about. He actually sat my VERY UPSET DD11 (DD10) at the time and told her "Mommy and Daddy are NEVER getting back together..." Yeah....I'm sure that made her feel MUCH better.

I asked him how he could be so sure? How could he be so definite about things......he couldn't answer. (But I think it made him think).

It's all normal....the venom is normal, it's WS defense mechanism. To shield them from all the pain they're causing.

If you think of it like that, it's little easier to take.

Do you feel like Plan A is wearing you down??? Because this woman is a PRIME candidate for Plan B. It'll confuse her, she won't understand 'I thought he loved me and wanted to be with me, now he won't talk to me....'

It would put the filling of her EN's firmly on OM's shoulders....and he's not going to like it. (Because she is DEFINITELY still in contact with him).

Your finances are already separated.....you're already living in 2 separate places.

Wait for other, wiser people to come along, but I feel like you're getting fed up, and that each venomous thing she says is hitting your love bank hard.

I don't think she's gonna wake up and smell the coffee until you do.

God Bless,

-Caren

MrLU,

Thanks for the listening to me and hearing I was upset. You are doing a great job at this.

However...I believe you lied to yourself here.

If it had been you doing the kicking, slap and punch stuff...you would have been in jail. Nope. Not if your wife didn't call the police.

You don't have to do it at the time, either...when you walk in the house, dazed, stunned...you can still call.

So, no...being a man wouldn't have ended you up in jail, either, if it wasn't reported. Tell me real truth now, MrLU...did she do this in the last 10 years?

Was this the first time?

Her moods are going to be all over the board, switching from one to the next, rapidly. When you have internal conflict, it is like that. When you don't, seems very foreign and unsettling.

Caren's right on about this stage. Irrational, whimsical and unpredictable. Explosive and implosive.

Determine what your boundaries are...if she were to give you a repeat from the other night's performance, what would you do this time?

As for the brakes...I just did a quick survey about brake lines...in 15 years (what I asked) I had no one say their brakelines broke. No attack, but since you're doing your own repair, is it possible something is off? Or could it be something else?

Concerned for you...and not just your mechanical skills, either.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Caren-

Yes Caren I understand, I have read enough here to see how WS's behave. But for me anyway, reading about it and actually seeing it, well, ya know.. difficult at times.

I do not know if WW told my boys anything like your WH did. My boys don't talk much, do not really say anything about any of this. She told them that mommy and daddy don't get along, mommy does not love daddy like a wife should and is why all of this is going on. When NC letter first came up I remember her asking me what are we teaching our kids if we try to work things out and try to rebuild the marriage after her explanation to the boys of why this is happening. Hmm, I can think of at least a dozen wonderful lessons this will teach our children when we do rebuild the marriage, especially when we have succeeded. That's all I needed to hear to know her head is not screwed on very tight...

We are going on 3 months now. I know from others stories this is not a very long time. I have been plan-a'ing for a good deal of that 3 months. Maybe not the best plan-a in the beginning, but after I started posting here and listing to certain posters (LA, Caren) i think I am doing pretty good job with what I have to work with.

Yes, it is wearing me down some. Its stuff like what she did to me Saturday, all the fog speak, the negativity, the manipulation she tries and sometimes succeeds. She preaches to her sons about being positive, not being negative (yeah, like she is qualified to teach someone that now). Yes, I know, venom. Up till a week or so ago I was starting to get a kick out of her reactions and responses to my plan-a.

Contact now, it is getting harder. I can still do a decent plan-a during contact. Once done with contact some times (a lot more lately) I get very angry... or very upset... I know LA, expectations. I try not to set them, sometimes without realizing it I do. I know, this is me, not her. Im working on that. I can keep doing plan-a. Yes I am starting to get fed-up with some of this but i can keep the show going if need be.

LA-

Truth. No LA this was not the first time. There have been other times she has done this. I do not know, i guess being a man and the fact that she really never hurt hurt me I let it go. I never thought about it like the way you expressed it, me disrespecting her, shielding her from the reality/consequences of her actions. If this were to happen again what would I do? Now, call the police.

On the brakes. This is a unique situation with my truck. I purchased a bass boat 5 or 6 years ago. I purchased my truck with the only purpose in mind of towing the boat or hauling stuff. So 99.9% of the time the truck sat unused. First time I had brake issues was the rear breaks, the lines from the front to the back were completely rusted through and broke. Second time, same thing, front brakes. Before d-day I drove our car... A week or so before d-day she sold the car to her father, did not even consult with me, just did it, it was in her name only (we have an idea of why now). So we were left with her van and my truck. I had to get the truck registered and start driving it, have been since a week before d-day. This time, the brake line in the front drivers side had a pin-hole in it, the line was rusted. I can only attribute the issues with the truck partly due to it just sitting there, not being used, or so i have been told.

--

Re-reading some of the posts from the last few days has me sitting here thinking.

I remember growing up how my real father was very physical with me. He was into Karate and other contact activities. I remember a lot of times feeling like his personal punching bag. He was always hitting, punching, wrestling with me... his way of playing? It often got out of control to the point of hurting. I always thought I was just being a wimp. He was very abusive, physically and verbally. Me and my sister were always somewhat scared of him, trying to live up to his expectations and afraid of what would happen if we did not. I accepted how things were as normal, to me.

I have not seen the man in over 20 years. He left us when mother could no longer take his drinking ,cheating (yes, he was a WH) and abuse so she divorced him. I was 17 or 18 at the time.

Thinking of WW brought back that old memory....

--

I just think that your wife is in a perfect place for Plan B to do it's impact.

Make an all out, over the top Plan A push.

And then send her the Plan B letter.

She won't be able to handle it....you will.

Wait for other, wiser, posters, but I think she's primed and ready, and I think these things are taking a toll on you.

God Bless,

-Caren