Yes he wants an expenses list. I really don't want to dothat because I feel he will just see what I would like and not give it to me. I want him to give what he wants to give. I don't want to be a taker andI know he wants to give something.

Well WH is still not taking any blame for what he has done and still thinks that I am out to get him. I just really done listen anymore.

Do other batrayed spouses that have learned the outline of the so called textbook reactions feel that when talking to someone about what you are doing ie. WH boss or friends that you have to teach them how WS is thinking or doing and that is why you are acting the way you are?

I got to talk to the commander and his 1stSGT today and I feel much better. I went in proffesionally and I came out with an understanding that my husband is trying to make me say or tell him things by lieing to me. I am more than willing to tell him but if he doesn't want to listen why should I? He wanted to talk this afternoon and I said sure and I went for a walk with him. He just wanted to talk about the weekend it got exposed. He feels I betrayed him because I did not call him first. HA! He won't even admit that I did try and call him. He also thinks I want to stand trial against him. Why would a wife do that against her husband. I said that three differant times. He didn't hear me. I know he is going to call again this evening and sad to say I really don't want to talk to him if this is going to go round and round again. Do you think I should I don't want to LB but I am tired of him an his childish ways.

I'm with you. I wouldn't give him an expense list. That's a control technique. He needs to give what he feels is going to be necessary and if it's not enough, you let him know it in no uncertain terms. Plan A does not require you become a doormat.

Glad you got to talk to the Commander and 1/Sgt. Going to them with a good attitude makes all the difference in the world. It seems to me to be good that hubby wants to spend time with you. He's talking to you, even if the alien is speaking. He's not to a point where anything can be believed--I guess you got some background from the commander on certain discrepancies between what he says and what is actually happening. That's good.

He's talking babble and any reverse babble you come up with is acceptable that meets Plan A requirements. You couldn't get him on the phone, though you tried, because you didn't know where he'd be. Gee, honey, let's work on that huh? You didn't do it AGAINST your husband. You did it to fight FOR your husband and your marriage...etc., etc.

It's going to go around and around like this for a long time, lady. Your husband an alien and aliens can't hear or understand. They are, in many way, petulant two-year-old children who can't get their way but can't stop trying. I've seen other BS's who make a little game of anticipating the babble and having reverse babble planned out and ready. Maybe that would work for you. Alternately, find distractions that will take your mind off of the problem for a break. Personally, I read a Tom Clancy novel takes me away from this world for hours at a time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok well this is new turn. WH came to the door to deliver some mail and a very little trinket that he found going though his stuff. He wanted to talk but I told him I would like to but not in front of the girls. So he agreed to go out in the 27 degree weather to talk. It seems the talk I had with his command made them think I want him back. I am not saying I don't but they put the ball in our park so to speak. If he wants to come back he must go to a IC meeting next week. I just don't know if I am ready for him to come back. We talked about MY side of the weekend that happened and he listen with no comments. I am very open right now and am scared and told him that. He wanted to know why and I really couldn't put it into words but he did not pressure me. In the end he asked if we could go out to eat or something. I said give me a call when. He said I could call him I told him I am not sure I feel comfortable about that yet. He can't look me in the eyes. I have know idea what to think about going to eat with him. I don't want to hear him say bad news in public again. I want to welcome him home but am I ready?

I feel that I have forgiven him for the A but the other stuff I don't know. I know I sound like a broken record with other that have been in this same perdicument. But as said before you don't know till you walk in the shoes.

It sounds like he is calming down some, so that is good. Hopefully, he will not be having contact with the OW, and will start being more himself.

I would meet him for dinner, and just try to enjoy it.

mhwag, sounds like good news to me. Like believer, it's great that he has calmed down and isn't ranting and raving about everything. Contrast that with a couple of weeks ago huh? Very good.

If the Army wants him to go to IC, I think it's also appropriate to ask him to go to couples counseling too.

You're scared because your trust in him has been broken completely. The adultery did that. All the other lying and deceit is a product of the adultery...they go hand in hand. Were I you, I'd consider them all as one bundled "thing." Label it "The A." If you obsese over each lie he told, I can't see it as being beneficial for you and the details could overwhelm you. I know it will be very hard for you to set aside the (smaller?) lies for a time, but I think you have the bigger task of putting your marriage back together that you need to concentrate on now.

As far as the date. Heck yes. Go for it, but do NOT have expectations that are too high. It's another baby step. (But baby steps add up, right?)

Thank you so very much for your advice. I must admit that I was not thinking high expectations of the date more like I was worried that it would be like the last time we went out and I don't think I could handle another fog indunce WH comment while trying to eat. I think I will still go with WH IF he calls me. I know I should call him because he has asked me to and this is part of his EN but I don't really know what to say to him. I feel that detachment very heavy now and I am scared that I might not say or do the right things. On a posative note with this thinking I am not having the physical strain anymore. I can eat again. But I will watch what I eat.

I thank you all again for your kindness and support though all of this.

WH just messaged me he wants to take me out on Feb 5th to dinner. The thing is that is my B-Day. I am a little apprehensive to say yes for the worry that I want my birthday to be a happy one. I am not sure if I can enjoy it if I am worry what is going to come out of his mouth. Any thought from you?

I messaged him back saying "but that's my birthday"
He messaged back"So that's a yes"
I mess. "No I said "but that is my birthday""
His mess. "So is that a yes or no"
I said" It is a yes if we keep it happy for my happy birthday"

Last thing he wrote"I belive the last conversation helped me alot. I want to see you. Think of it as a date, so we can get to know each other."

I wrote " That sounds nice."

Even with all this I feel a little scared. I am still learning me. I feel that I have forgotten to date. I know this was something we should have done even after we were married but well you know. I guess I will make the best of it. I have so many emotions right now. WOW!

Sounds good. Remember that he will probably come out of the fog one of these days. You just need to be yourself, and the woman he fell in love with. That should be easy, right?

Plan A is about you. You SHOULD be finding out new things about yourself and finding things you like about yourself. That makes you a more attractive companion, I guarantee.

I think this is very hopeful. Look at his language, mhwag. He's asking, not demanding--coaxing, not showing anger. Would he have been this way a few weeks ago? I think it's a very good sign.

That having been said, it's ONE item that's improving among many. Are you ready with EN's questionnaire and other things to start the ball really rolling in Plan A? Hang in there. The fog may be thinning out a little in the alien’s mind.

Well WH asked to come over to show us somethings he found. One of the items was a very emotional letter I wrote 4 years ago that was not very nice. But when I read it it did not even seem to be from me. It was like from some very depressed person that need to work on themselves but was blame their husband. I am ashamed of that part of my life.

We sat an talked for hours it was lite subject in the begining. His one comment was" I can't belive you want to forgive me?" I said "I have forgiven you." In the conversation it seems he is still on the fence and I understand that. He was honest to me saying he still thinks of OW. I just said thank you for telling me.

I mentioned some books that have been helping me and he picked up SAA and when he left he took it. I am still waiting for HNHN. But we both agreed that we have not met each others emotional need in a long time.

I think I have been journalling here and I think that has helped me also. I know many have givin advice but that is just advice. Me, myself and I are the only ones that really can make the finally decision but your advice in the long run did help alot. I had times where I would just sit and wait to hear from any of you. But as I see it now in 1 month I have grown and that is from friends like you showing your support.

I know I am not out of the woods yet but I felt for the first time in a LONG time I can "breath" so to speak. I await the new day with a smile and positive attitude. Thank You

The strange thing about this place is that it changes you. When I first came, I was completely miserable, walking around like a zombie, couldn't eat or sleep. I wanted my WH back, and couldn't see a good life without him.

That didn't happen for me, but my life is good again.

I'm happy that you are seeing changes in yourself. In the end, that is all you can do. I'm hopeful for your marriage, because your husband seems to be coming out of the fog more quickly than usual. So don't get upset if there are setbacks.

Excellent, mhwag. You've reopened the lines of communication and are making enormous strides toward reviving your marriage. Keep up the great work.

Quick side question. I know thatWH if he does return he will want SF. I don't want to tell him no. I go back and forth on this issue. I was in some ways lucky that I knew the OW because she was a good friend of mine. She just had a baby 9 months ago so I know that she has been tested for STD. I just really want to belive they never went physical but I feel that I have to belive the worst because I don't have the truth. SF how would you approach this without BIG LBing? He has told me without me asking he hasn't had SF in over 2 months.

Mhwag, that's in intensely personal thing you have to decide, and I don't know how others will feel about this. For me, nine months ago is 270 days since the birth of that child and, let's be blunt, every day (for talking purposes) in that period is a day she could have crossed the lines of marriage with someone besides your husband. I don't know where you are in Germany, but I'm sure there are prostitutes downtown, or in the next town down the autobahn, and who knows where a previous sex partner of the OW has been and what he was exposed to.

Right now, I...and I'm speaking only for myself...I would not feel comfortable having sex with a WS without the WS having been first tested. The other person was vile enough to enter into an adulterous situation with my WS...there's no way I could trust that individual any farther than I could throw them. I would insist on tests first, myself. It will be 12 weeks, roughly 3 months, before a reasonable assurance could be established there was no exposure to HIV.

If it's been two months for your husband, assuming the EA didn't go PA, then it's also been two months for you. I would remind my spouse of that and also say that it will be an eternity for the tests to come back for me also. No, I don't think that's a LB. It's just a medical necessity.