Good for you DRD...I've been following your story with my husband, Mr. Wondering....just wanted to personally give you an "atta-boy" for taking this step and let you know that we are thinking of you and keeping you in our prayers...


Best,

Mrs. Wondering

Thanks MrsW, I appreciate it.

I do need support.

I went with my wife to the hospital this afternoon - she had a lump 18 months ago but the tests have demonstrated it was benign and so she's been discharged. Thanks to God - at least that's one thing we don't have to contend with!

We came back to a shopping centre for coffee, and she was open with me, saying that she doesn't feel this will work, but that she doesn't think there's any choice. She says she won't go to choir practices or contact OM, but will not commit to any "lengthy" period of time (such as the 6-months suggested by MrW above) for us to work at the relationship. She says "I will know when to give up and will not commit to a fixed length of time".

As the choir's treasurer, she feels she cannot completely give up on choir and can not resign her post at present - but says that she will not be seeing OM as he is only at the rehearsals. She says she may be able to resign in May (when they have committee changes) but also thinking that by then she "may be over OM and could re-join choir". Clearly this would be a bad thing, but I didn't want to say so and make a disrespectful judgement at this point.

She says that she doesn't feel any connection with me, that there is no chemistry, no spark, and that she is only doing this because it may be the right thing. However, she says that at any time she may chuck it in. She says that I am pure in spirit and that she is not, but that she doesn't care any more.

It's so hard listening to this crap and not responding in kind.

I said that I thought that if we both worked at meeting each other's needs we could recreate love, but she poo-poohed the very idea. Nonetheless, she's agreed to do the EN questionnaire tomorrow morning with me, so perhaps that will help.

Also, we're going out for dinner this evening, which is another positive step.

However, when I suggested that we try to find an evening activity we could do together, she said that she had no emotional capability to start something new at present, and the very thought of something like that made her nauseous.

It's swings and roundabouts, I feel, but there is some progress.

DRD

On a secondary question, how does one go about trying to get the WS to read and sign up to MB policies, such as POJA and PORH?

Or to agree to do things that would assist in recreational companionship when they are in the fog of hating doing things with you.

Has anyone any suggestions for broaching these topics?

David

are you living in UK?

Sometimes it's impossible to understand you Brits...

As a former wayward...I can assure that she is STILL playing you and will continue to do so until you go Texas with exposure and boundaries.

While I'm not an advocate of vindictive exposure, I am an advocate of complete exposure.

The old "I'm the choir treasurer" business is pure crap. She can quit tomorrow and they'll survive.

I suspect your entire marriage has been about her manipulating you to get what she wants...you are going to have to change YOU.

Gird up your loins, buddy boy...you're just getting started...

Low

SIDEBAR:

what does "Gird up your loins " mean exactly?

is it "pull up your pants" ?

I seriously donno

You don't do ANY of this right now. You work to end the affair by following "Surviving An Affair"

The other stuff will come MUCH later in your recovery. You're not there and won't be for a while.

You cannot rebuild your marriage while the affair is in progress. From what you have written, it is clear to me that it is.

It's from the Bible, equivalent to "Put your jock strap on, we're gonna rock n roll."

DRD...

I didn't believe that that "spark" could return either...pretty much the same with all waywards...standard fare, I'm afraid. It does return, but it's not the same, it's about 1 million times better...something about going to he11 and back together, I suppose.

On the subjects of getting her here and getting her to do things with you...one word: W I T H D R A W A L...and that can't happen until there is NC...

Withdrawal is what "pushed" me over the edge, so to speak...the pain of withdrawal was so intense that I was willing to try ANYTHING to make it stop. Once I began to do these things, not only did the pain begin to dissipate, but I began to draw closer to my H...He was brilliant at Plan A, IMO.

My hope is for the Vicar to do what is necessary to get rid of OM, so you guys will be on the road to NC...that is HUGE...

Sorry that I can't offer you more hopeful sounding things, but I am sure that you want honesty...

Best,

Mrs. Wondering

Lady Pep "fancies" Lord Pep, and she's feeling "randy" baby...thinking of "Sir Loins"...tee hee! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I strongly recommend you suggest long walks as an activity. So many reasons. The exercise does you good. You are doing something that allows you to be together. You can talk or be silent. It will give you time to think. If done in the evenings it helps sleep.

It’s becoming a catch phrase in my marriage. When we feel we are not there for each other just saying “Honey, lets start walking” is enough of a wale-up!

Not too long ago I got the “I love you but...” from my wife. Fortunately no affair. I did a quasi Plan A and concentrated fulfilling the needs I could. The thing my wife was most touched by was how kindly and lovingly I talked to others about her. Just a thought...

You will find the following of imense help to you & your wife now:-

1. Print out & share the Infidelity FAQ's on this site linked in my sig below.

2. Purchase surviving an affair on this site

3. Purchase his needs her needs on this site

4. Print out Harley's basic concepts

5. Purchase Love Busters on this site

If indeed you are not in the USA, I also recommend purchasing the Audio CD course on this site (and forget purchasing 3 and 5 as they are included in the course)

Reading these (both of you) and following the principals will restore your love for each other and restore your marriage.

Oh gosh, some people really need to get the big picture. Plan B has a value that just isn't understood. When you demonstrate to your WW that you are done, that you will move forwards and move that direction without her... SHE WILL FINALLY GET IT. But you have to demonstrate that. You have to be not just hard to get, but even harder to predict.

Why is she lying to you if she is so 'unsure' of the future. Give me a break. She is just enjoying her cake. Sure, it's tough, but it sure is fun.

Gird up your loins? Hah, I say pull em up over your head whenever she comes a callin. Think about it, why lie, if you are done? Because, inside, she really does care...and that is what you are after, the insides, bring them out!

RookKev...

I'm confused by your advice...DRD has just begun exposure which is part of plan A-[/b]The BEGINNING[/b] part of Plan A...this is just the tip of the iceberg...without a COMPLETE Plan A there can be NO Plan B and certainly not an effective one...you may as well tell him to go straight to divorce court on dday...I don't get it??? I think that it is you that needs to get the big picture here...the one featured on MB's...

DRD...I stick to my original message which is supported by Marriage Builders Principles...No contact, then withdrawal...try to meet what needs you can until then and the rest will follow...you are doing good, keep it up...

Mrs. Wondering

Thanks all, and especially MrsW.

My WW found out I spoke to the vicar last night and was livid with me. She was shouting how OM would lose his job, how I was awful, how I just wanted revenge, etc.

She phoned OM to tell him (warn him) and then came back in house. After long conversations about how I was doing this because I cared for our marriage and wanted OM to butt-out.

She was talking about legal separation and divorce, etc.

However, eventually something seemed to break inside WW and she started to cry and came over to me and hugged me. Said she knew that I was right and that she should be trying to work on our Marriage.

We ended up having a really good and open conversation for the first time for ages. She agreed again to do the EN questionnaire (which we did this morning together) and even said she was willing to come back to sleep in our bed (she's been downstairs and/or in her separation flat since 1/1/06).

I feel like she really is wanting to try, and that we now have at least a chance at recovery. She has again confirmed that she will not contact OM (which still remains to be backed up by use of a NC letter).

I hope (and will look for proof) that it's real.

Anyway, will keep you posted.

Thanks a lot, again.
DRD

This actually sounds awesome, DRD, and it's the way exposure should work in it's best case scenario!!

Now, I do want to caution you...

Your wife will likely go back and forth on her choice to end the A and work on the marriage...we all call it "the rollercoaster" around here. You get one yourself too once recovery starts...you'll be going through a whole gambit of emotions. Your wife will suffer from withdrawl symptoms when the affair REALLY does start to come to an end...she's addicted to the affair and the feelings she gets from contact with OM. The withdrawl comes from defying that addiction...it takes some time and it will be a very rough bit of time for you to be around her. Just try to support her in whatever small ways you can, but don't give in and allow her to contact OM in anyway.

But...stay vigilant in insisting on NC and verifying that it's intact. Keep working on plan A...making yourself a better person and a better mate for your wife. And as the withdrawl fades, and she sees that you've still been there with her the whole time, and still love her, her heart and feelings will return.

MC with a counselor who understands infidelity would be a good thing to get started ASAP...as long as she's truly working on the marriage. But if she remains involved or in contact with OM at all during this, MC will be useless.

Again, great job on taking the steps you need to in order to start recovering your marriage!

MrsW

I'll respond, even though I usually just end up upsetting more people when I do this sort of thing.

This poor fella is sneaking out of his house, having a friend watch his children so that he can go catch his wife 'getting into bed' after 10 at night, with a man in her church choir, of which she holds a FINANCIAL position... and he chooses to believe her lie that nothing happened. You know what, I wasn't in bed with her, so I can't tell ya what happened. However, based on all the other circumstances, I choose to assume she had sex. Regardless, what she did was a transgression on the marriage vows...

What I see is he is so desperate to believe nothing is going on that he is clouding his common sense judgement of a situation. I do understand MB principles. I've been here a long time, I've seen alot of people make some really positive moves in their marraiges, and seen lots of people struggle to accept the hard truths that hit them in the face. I tend to not beat around the bush... and with the men, I'm usually very direct. I look back at my own recovery, and see some others here, and I think, what could I have done a bit differently to make me be in a better spot now, not just as a man, but as a husband.

You know what, admittedly, Steve H has never suffered the affects of an affair. As much as he has seen and experienced everyone else's, all he can do is advise as and educated person who has personally witnessed people's emotional states. He hasn't actually had to process these emotions himself, from the inside out, amongst it all. On that, I accept a great deal of what he says and advises, but, I still see him go against his own teaching at times... a thread is going right now about that very thing.

I spoke about plan b as a course of action because of his wife's actions towards him. Who is plan a for? Is it for the WS or the BS? As DRD mentioned, he is sneaking out at night spying in a window...at what point is he gonna actually committ a crime that gets him in trouble, and then affects a much larger circle...? His wife postures that she is leaving, and then backs down after DRD I'm quite sure goes the passive route and 'begs' to not go down that road. What kind of person 'threatens' divorice, that is just crap...almost as much as crawling into bed with another man, and then thinking that your threat of divorice is some sort of punishment.

Where do I come from...? I am a BH, whose wife moved into her own apartment, and had the OM move in with her. I let her live her pretend life. However, the VERY DAY I said, that is enough, and stood up to say it's over, it ended. She came home...we've struggled, and OM stopped by my house once even. I stood up again, and warned her, he would only ever come to my house once again, because if he did, I would make sure he wouldn't ever be able to after that. Where am I at today? I believe my wife is truly in love with me again. We have a good time together, we have good sex, we enjoy each other. However, as the BH, there are things that I look back at and say...hmm, I shoulda done this. That's where I advise from.

-hang in there

RookKev,

Don't think anyone wuld disagree with your post. But if you read the WHOLE thread you would see that no one was saying to him that his wife wasn't banging OM that night!

Thanks Owl and others (BigK and RookKev),

I appreciate all your comments. As a brief update, OM texted my wife to tell her that he is now likely to lose his job in the church, and she is very upset as she feels she is responsible. Nonetheless, she is still saying that she is willing to commit to trying to make the marriage work again, and says she has not contacted him back.

RookKev, I am not suggesting that I am simply believing my wife without any demonstration from her. On the other hand I have known her 12 years and have a better idea than most when she is telling me truth as opposed to lies. Her statement about having not had sex the other night appears to be demonstrated to some degree by her actions since - i.e. she is beginning to come back to our marriage. I know her body language enough to know that she is being genuine.

We are due for more MC (individual sessions this week, with joint sessions ongoing). Also, I know that I need to keep a sharp eye on her and try to enforce NC if possible (or at least be checking to see if she is lying to me). I still want to get her to write a NC letter, as I see this as an important step - to focus both her mind and mine on the truth of the NC.

Other than that, I am focussing on Plan A and working with my wife to understand her ENs better, etc.

Thanks Again,
DRD