It sounds better than what I had...

It at least is not begging her to stay. I have mentioned to her the prospect of what the letter says and she and I had a discussion as to the blame she lays squarely on MY shoulders.

Her statement is "You make me laugh by actually telling me you are worried about me and where I am when you would let me go and be with whoever. Not knowing who they are... You make me laugh. Its a little to late for all that crap! I am the one that has been hurt for the last 9 years in this relationship and I am tired of it!" Her words exactly... Oh Yeah AND... "Not to mention you have taken EVERY bit of my security in everything and destroyed it by reading my emails and listening to my voicemail and G knows whatever else you did to find things out about me. I don't feel safe or secure in anything I do."

So the revised edition of the letter will at least serve as a documented attempt to show her I am still for this marriage and that I am owning the mistakes I made. And at least doesnt sound begging...

So what ya think about her tyrate??

Begging carries no respect for the other person. It is asking someone do pretend they don't have a choice. Nor does it carry respect for yourself...you don't know it, but you will be whole, complete and lovable without her.

When she says the old you didn't care about her safety, she's right. Not blame but truth.

When she says you make her laugh, say, "I know now I can't make you do anything. No one can. You choose your actions, including the past ones, as much as I choose mine that didn't protect or cherish you."

"I hear you say you believe differently than I do. You feel that time has run out on being new, knowing what you didn't before, and doing better now that you know, is that correct?"

"I hear you feel you've been hurt for nine years by me and you are not choosing to allow me to hurt you anymore, is that correct?"

"I hear you believe I can take your security away from you and destroy it. That you don't feel safe because of your choices, is that correct?"

She sounds solidly in the fog to me. She is playing victim to herself, with no power, no recognition of her choices..which is causing her the most pain right now. Compassion, AH...Compassion.

How do YOU feel/think about her tirade? Need a little O&H from you, 'cuz you got a code, right?

LA

How do I feel about the tirade?? I am feeling comfortable in who I am becoming to the point of recognizing her pure victimistic "reality" she is living in. I am not so 'up' on the fog as I should be. If you have a minute kinda break it down in short sentences for me.. HAHA

As for my worth and reality... I am becoming whole again and actually looking forward to finding out more.

I own the safety issue from our past. Is she going to realize that I never started the investigating until there was something to find?? Doesn't really matter does it?

What does matter is that my S is going to see me every chance we get and I am making the right choices again.

Compassion is very difficult when you are being completely torn down (or the other person is attempting totear you down) constantly...

Unconditional forgiveness is something I have always strived to have. Alot of times someone will ask me for forgiveness and I have already granted it before they know they did anything. Not saying I am holier than thou.. Just a life choice I made along time ago.

I am so thankful for your help LA... I can't tell you enough!

Breaking down the fog for AH...big DJ from me, but I can take it:

"You make me laugh by actually telling me"

You have total control over me. You make me everything I am. I'm not responsible

"you are worried about me and where I am when you would let me go and be with whoever. Not knowing who they are..."

I refuse to recognize this is no longer you because I'm still the same woman willing to do this. I still don't like myself.

"You make me laugh."

Because I always wanted to be Bette Davis and not give a darn. Or was it Mae West? I forget. But one of those movie stars who aren't me. I like to pretend I am them because then I feel powerful instead of helpless.

"Its a little to late for all that crap!"

I want it to be too late and your fault, because if it isn't, then I'm at fault and I've felt wrong and defective...to blame...my whole life and I'm choosing not to feel that way anymore! That's right...by choosing not to feel fixes it. I don't have to do anything, just not feel this way. Dang, I still do. Why isn't this working? Oh, yeah, gotta make it all your fault.

"I am the one that has been hurt for the last 9 years in this relationship and I am tired of it!"

"Not to mention you have taken EVERY bit of my security in everything and destroyed it by reading my emails and listening to my voicemail and G knows whatever else you did to find things out about me. I don't feel safe or secure in anything I do."

That should definitely show him that I am his slave and he gives me all my emotions and choices in life. There. That'll fix his wagon now!

Purely for entertainment value...do not resell, package or take seriously. Brought to you from DJsRUs, Inc.

"I own the safety issue from our past. Is she going to realize that I never started the investigating until there was something to find?? Doesn't really matter does it?"

You own what your choices were before...but don't see she chose to comply with them? Her part, your part in the past. You both are married. The snooping is covered in law by the spousal right of discovery. You are mutually responsible for debt and the state of the marriage. Investigating is okay.

You're welcome to my presence, AH. It is what I've got I'm sure of...

Loving detachment can give you that compassion in a real way. It will funnel down to your emotions, slow. Not an instant hit.

Did you get your meetings attended this week for SA?

LA

SA yes... Not a big hit with me but part of my owning my part...

"You own what your choices were before...but don't see she chose to comply with them? Her part, your part in the past."
I DO see that she should own the part of complying with my wishes. Her "fog" keeps her saying that she would not have done that if I hadnt made it OK. I am intelligent enough to know that this is just a way for her to feel better about her choice by making me the EVIL one in the whole marriage.

I am ready to be as compassionate as I need to be. I am not sure if that is going to happen as a couple. That isnt as big an issue I thought it may be for me as of recently. As much as I want to fight for my marriage, I am finding myself growing past the pain and her wallowing in hers.

is that the "Fog" part? Wallowing in the pain and looking to blame someone for your lack of logic?

Hey, where's the rave review of breaking the fogspeak?

:::pouting::::

No, fog is running from the pain by shoving it onto everyone else. Pure fantasy. Struggling to find her power and going down blind alleys.

Very hard way to live.

Drop the "she should own the part" no shoulda woulda coulda stuff. You're stronger than that. You know her part is just a part...your part...and your past is your own.

I LOVED 12 steps...what, don't like giving up the control?

Yeah, still pouting that you didn't enjoy my rendition of, "You made me love you," sung by AC/DC.

LA

I did so enjoy your AC/DC rendition!! I did, I did!!

"I LOVED 12 steps...what, don't like giving up the control?"
This is the best part for me as well LA. The part I am struggling with is hearing the bredth of the SA testimonials and having told mine, a counselor visiting that night came to me and said he didn't think that group was where I needed to be. Go Figure... He said I should follow the 12 steps and seek IC and a new SA group.

So you too are attending?

How do you break the FOG? Compassion and good clean living? What if everything you say and do is suspect and distrusted as a game?

Well...Al-Anon, but it is the same in my view. I wanted to do SA, but didn't have the guts. Could be in my future.

Are you saying that a counselor thought that group was more die-hard than your experience or something? Or that you were for that group?

Did you attend a few before settling on this group?

I do understand how SA would be tougher than the others...there's no alcohol at AA meetings...but SA? Well, that would be another story, given the stories are...what they are.

I'm glad you got the relief from the first step...so powerfully beautiful for me...it was my first touch of reality after dangling in my self-created bottomless fantasy.

You just have to be special, doncha? (Just kidding)

LA

HAHA you so funny!

The cousellor suggested the group was alittle too full of hardcore stuff for my situation. It is just htat the next closest is 1.5 hours away. But I am toughing it out so far.
And I can tell you it is going to take guts... Not to disaude you at all but ,, well...

And yes a is special!!

Did you go to recoverynation.com online?

You can't dissuade me...get your DJ outta my face.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

I hear you say that my not wanting to dissuade you is a DJ. Is that true?

Yes I did go to the .com

Learning alot in this journey.

You are a dear friend...

They have a partner program for your wife, too...pretty cool.

Happy you let me be on your thread, AH.

I get so extreme on my DJ trip that dissuade, persuade...we have influence, but they don't step onto another person's choices, right?

I had to go to extremes to get the disrespect concept, and am working my way to moderate, uhm, slowly. It's about me, not you.

For a change.

:::ducking::::

LA

Okay, got a suggestion (like I don't have a regular pocketful)...

Get "Out of the Shadows" (H doesn't remember author and his workbook is in the car, so that's a no for the author)...he has a book and a workbook for SA.

Would be documented stuff to show you're working on it.

Why in his car? Because SA is actually about secrets, not sex. Interesting, huh? I'm okay with it being in the car.

LOL

Cheering you with acceptance, understanding and no judgment. That's easy, 'cuz we're equal and human. Thank God...uhm, literally.

LA

HAr har Not about me for a change... Yuk Yuk you should Duck!!

Have a great week and I will talk to you tomorrow on this lengthy but very fruitful thread!

DAMN this cursed FOG!!!

Well.... She told me last night when she got back to Alabama that her lawyer is advising her against signing anything that gives me joint legan AND physical custody and she is trying to change everything now to follow that advise.

I am trying my best to remain calm and not just rip something off the building!

All I want is equal time and equal opportunity to have my son. Am I being unreasonable?

I think I get what you're saying LA. It's still a difficult concept for me to wrap my mind around at times, but I'm trying. I know that if I try to meet MP's needs with an expectation that she will reciprocate that she'll see right through that in a heartbeat.

Even knowing that it's hard to not have some expectations/hope that she'll start to reciprocate.

AH -

Hang in there. The ride is going to be bumpy for quite some time.

MP and I have had a tough week. NC is in place (the OM broke it off last month, and I sent MP's NC letter last week). She's still struggling with getting him out of her mind, and I found a post on the web from her (I knew it was her because of what was said), and I was more upset over what she said about me than the fact that she posted something to him on the web.

If you follow MB, then I guess this would be part of the fog. It's hard to endure this, make no mistake. I wish that I could point a rosy picture for you, but I can't - I don't know what your future holds anymore than mine.

I can say that you appear to be giving it your absolute best effort, and no matter what happens you can always cling to that. That you honestly tried, and more importantly, learned.

Sorry for not posting more frequently to your thread. I'm going through a real low spot right now, and just haven't had the energy or desire. I'm glad LA is able and willing to keep posting. I do keep abreast of your posts, even when I don't post. Keep fighting the good fight, AH.

AH -

Apologies in advance for the threadjack, but I was hoping you and/or LA might want to contribute to a thread I just started - Changing Counselors?

Thanks.