You get a payoff in beating yourself up. You tell yourself you're not a blamer...you don't blame others...but you are a Blamer...you blame yourself.

Not a balanced code, huh? And just because we tell ourselves we are not something, we easily do it anyway, just under our radar. You give yourself permission to do it to you, then you will do it to others. Whether you recognize it or not, you will. Can you trust me?

Btw...WELCOME HOME!!!! (MB as home...)

(((((((((((((())))))))))))))))

You were missed, prayed for, worried about and are much cared for here. Know that, toots. A truth.

(((((((((((((())))))))))))))))

Now back to your regularly scheduled beating...

Responsibility just is...not blame, fault or reward, like results of it. Responsibility just is. You are inherently responsible for you...you make your choices...no beating yourself up required. Your payoff is false (like most are within us)...if you beat yourself up hard enough, you won't make bad choices, painful ones, again. The payoff isn't that great because it isn't realistic, is it?

We make our choices, not our consequences. Those who try to do that...choose by outcome...end up eating their tail. This is why choosing from our code is essential.

There is no never, always, forever, ever...those words come out when we are closest to the child within us. They are wishful. You may make choices in situations exactly like the one with Tabi, because they won't look anything like the situation with Tabi...and you may choose differently, own your part, be aware...and still have a sucky outcome...not what you desired. However, you will have the knowledge you did your part, which mitigates the suckiness until God can show us the greatness we haven't yet seen. Stuff only looks like recurring stuff in retrospect. Smoke and mirrors of humankind.

When you truly know you can't change the past (not just in your head, but in your belief system), then you will not allow yourself to beat yourself anymore. You will respect yourself, accept yourself and love yourself more...not depending on outcome. You will grow to choose your results and be at peace.

Nice segue to...

Banishing the Tabi card, as promised...

I intentionally got pregnant with my firstborn so that I would have someone who would love me and "never" leave me. He was my cure for rejection. I picked out a man, a noncommitted boyfriend and politely asked...when he said NO WAY, we proceeded to a get drunk and I got my wish. My son's father was an alcoholic. My son is one also.

They have never met. No support or contact for 17 years. I married my H when my firstborn was five, in his life since 3. My firstborn alternately hates his biodad, loves him, longs for him, and ignores him. Mostly ignores him. He can ignore him for long stretches because he has not been in his life. My son can choose what he wishes, use scraps of information he coaxes from me, to twist his beliefs around to suit what he feels he needs right then.

All the mixed in stuff is normal...he craves his father's (my H) approval and acceptance. He shines more brightly in his attempt to dazzle and connect with him. He does not feel loved, revered or accepted by his father. He alternately hates, loves, longs for and ignores him.

My son wrestles his anger like an angel come to earth...probes, pokes, stretches, eyes and examines it to no end...he does nto yet approve of nor accept himself. He alternately hates, loves, longs for and ignores himself.

He is much like his father. He looks like his biodad. He is finding his place in the world without realizing yet, fully, he already has a place in his world.

The unreal biodad is where he keeps his wishes...he believes of him terrible things, doesn't accept he is human and does not allow me my part, my choice. I can do no evil. LOL. Not an evil laugh, more like a snort. My time will come, along with the reality, that I'm as human, not better nor worse than his biodad.

Tabi's life is much the same...she probably hides her wishful child (now nearly grown) in you...the image of you. She knows her father isn't her "real" father, but loves him like she loves you...alternately, given her shifting beliefs and feelings, her struggles, her blame center (which they spread all over...everyone gets their share); she feels unique, not understood, at times whole and at times defective; she sometimes believes she wasn't enough for you to stay for and times when she knows she had no part...only her mother's and yours. She most likely looks at her mother the way my son does his father...might even love you as blameless, torn from her against either of your wills...or not at all.

From her mother's choices, though, she may have had several Dads, several step brothers and sisters and a lot to be protected from that she wasn't. Or maybe not. She is as much God's child as yours...more created and protected by him than any other father possible.

She is who she is exactly as she was meant to be right now...make your prayer that she would know this one thing (always in God's will)...she has all the choices and options we all do...her journey is meant to be this way for a purpose, as is yours, with her in your heart...a daughter not here...a comparison I would advise you not to make with the passion you have for your son.

There are no what-ifs and if-onlys, AH...just what is...was...will be. Bring that to your WW and how she played the card...pushed the button you have created in yourself...and remove that button. There isn't one.

Stop going to Tabi's pain...which is hers...and stay where you have domain. You did not reject or abandon. You are where you are now, with an open heart for her, which is your choice, and enough for anyone.

I found my son's biodad when my son began to stop breathing, that prophylactic shock stuff...and they couldn't track it down to cause...it was hereditary, but not from him. Later, I found his email, and they emailed once. He had married, divorced, and now was remarried, reborn and my son has two half brothers. His biodad, through his marvelous wife, wrote a heart opened letter when my son was 17...and my son rejected him by not responding. He still wrestles with that, and I don't think his future will hold that rejection. My son has married, fought in two wars, changed, sorted his own devils...may be a trip to see biodad in his future, if biodad allows it.

For my part, I blamed myself, my selfishness, for years. I was responsible for my son's rage, his torment, his alternating beliefs...guess you know that I don't any longer. I made my choice and after that, each day, biodad made his. You didn't have that choice. Pure manipulation is withholding choice that is rightfully yours.

I blamed myself for not urging my H to adopt them sooner. He waited nine years. I don't blame myself anymore because it wasn't within my control. His choice. His fear. As is his relationship with his sons. And for my second son, his story is different...though he's seen his biodad, he has never admitted parentage. And he still owes me $17. However, we gained his mother, added to our family 20 years ago when I got the guts to approach her and show her her first grandchild. Different story, different person, no involvement...but he has biodad's family in his life.

And I see now where that rage feeds my son...polishes him in way; he is stunningly funny, passionately compassionate, thoughtlessly thoughtful; desperate, yearning, fulfilled and very much alive. In the end, that is what counts.

He left me at 18. That's a short "never." He loves me with all his heart. God made it that way, you know. Love really is a choice...birth doesn't make that boundary. Can't make that boundary. There is no dominion given.

You will not make your son anything...he is as created by God as Tabi...with his own journey. You will cherish, and are already cherishing, that you are privileged to be part of that journey...maybe moreso, because of the one denied you. May be in your future, though. You never know.

Now...why did you sign the seperation/divorce stuff?

I still don't get that part. You sound in pain from it...what are you doing today to save your marriage?

No attack...concerned for you and pleased to be on your journey. Thank you for having me.

LA

Welcome back, AH. Glad to see you're still around.

I want to echo LA's question about signing the papers so soon. Not a judgement or a critique, just a question.

Would it have been possible for you to let her do all the footwork for the divorce? By that, I mean if she wanted out so bad, let her get it all drawn up. By all means, state your case and wants, but don't just give in readily.

Ultimately, it's your choice, and you know what is best for you (and your son). I'm not going to condemn you or call you wrong for agreeing to the divorce. Maybe you can get her to agree to put it off for a few months to reevaluate things while you're separated?

OK... Lets address this signing the agreement deal...

LA, I am in pain over it.. I struggled with this for a good while and it blew up in my brain. I saw this starting to go awry in the process and was looking like it was going to get REAL nasty. As amatter of fact there was SO much slinging of mud and nastiness that I couldnt recognize her. And I told her that.

Bird, I can tell you both that I was in a very bad place and we had to move out of the house by the lake by the end of the month and the house in Alabama was going fast and then my computer crashed and I lost ALL my work documents and to top off all that ... My mother is on her deathbed and may not make it another week. SHe is in liver failure or so the doctors feel at 80 yo... Which means she will not be a candidate for a transplant.

Why did I sign the papers... I did not recognize her and did not feel like she was in ANY way the person I was in love with.

Main thing I wanted to make for sure was that S did not have to go through a nasty moving backa nd forth and getting in the middle of all those arguments and have her hold him in Alabama. Although my lawyer assured me that I was able to stop any moving and make her stay and most likely get custody.

I have made my choice to agree to joint legal custody with spelled out equal time. She agreed to arbitration in case we could not make a decision. That was my cticking point because I did not want her to be able to make the final choice. (control issue I am sure) I just don't want to be the SECONDARY parent and if she has power to make the final decision then I am the secondary parent.. Although in my sons eyes I am equal if not primary.

In my eyes I have not backed down... I have Stepped up to the plate to make the transition as easy for my son as possible. My feelings for my wife are as strong as ever. I have all hope and prayers that we will be able to get things back together.

I do not expect nor feel she is ready to get back. She has been very evasive and quiet about that happening. her statements are ... "I don't see how you didnt see this coming" "I am done and don't want to be in this palce in ten years"

My choices are made for S and his future. She and I have a chance to make things smooth for him and this is the path I chose to go.

I have no clear cut reason nor expect I will... My mind has been pulled in 6 different directions lately.

Help....

Okay, so I hear you had a brain blowout. I get that. I can forget you're just a mortal, since you did, too.

Lots of stress at one time...feeling overwhelmed; spiking the pain meter which makes the signing look like a way out of it.

'Til you found out it wasn't.

I get that. No judgment.

You know there's no smooth for DS...just your desire made manifest, right?

I thought your mind was my responsibility.

Then you quit coming.

Guess that showed me, huh?

Be good to yourself, AH...come here, get grounded. Know you can handle it all...no flooding, overwhelming.

Place of truth and growth.

Yours, for the asking.

Right here.

Just a question...you're in Alabama but no residency established, so you did have to file in Georgia, correct? Any rescinding, signing under duress stuff in divorce?

Just wondering. Options are important. Not expectations or wishes. Knowledge as power.

How is your mother doing now? Is DS close to her? I know you love her tremendously...what is your skill at grieving at right now? Did the computer crash harm your employment?

We care, we're here. I'm trying hard not to believe I was abandoned...you better hope I succeed!!!

::insert really evil, threatening laughter here:::

(((((((((((((AH))))))))))))))))

LA

You were not abandoned here my friend!!

I have been so occupied with my mothers illness that I had no real time to think of here.

My mother is going to be fine as long as she eats right and gets help around the house.

As for my grieving capabilities??? I have NO idea...

As for my computer... No I got another and managed to save my soul!

I am back in Alabama now at my 2nd residence and will have my son for the next 3 weekends cause of Easter.

Easter is a time of resurrection... MAybe , Just Maybe!!

I will continue more later... Hopw all is well with you guys!!

Love ya

Thanks for the update and remembering us.

You are loved and cared for...God's in your life.

LA

Good to here from you AH!

Stay Strong!

LA,, I sense a distance from me as of the last couple of post... I do sincerely apologize for the lack of posts.

I did remember to come back and hope to continue the path you have been helping me stay on.

I have continued the SA meetings and seem to be winning the battle as of late.

It is a hard thing to do being so alone and all, but I feel the more I have the urge to look and seek that instant gratification, the more I am looking to friends for counsel and comfort.

I am still in want of your friendship and counsel. I cherish your words and wisdom and wit...

Thank you so much for the help!!

"I thought your mind was my responsibility.

Then you quit coming.

Guess that showed me, huh?"

LA, Is this a harsh thought from you?
No judgement here either just concerned I may have insulted you somehow.

Naw, AH...I was being funny. You know, even in stand up, there are times it is only funny to YOU. LOL

And no, I'm not a fiend, I swear. My humor can be fiendish, I think. I'm your friend, toots.

Busy as all get out.

Great to hear about SA progressing and you choosing the comfort and counsel of friends over destructive choices.
Have a question for you, though:

"It is a hard thing to do being so alone and all,"

What you are doing is a solo act because your life is yours. Yet, you're not alone. Ever. God is with you every breath, unless you forget and slide into not seeing him, feeling his comfort and hearing his counsel. That happens. Then you choose to slide back.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you knew this but weren't saying because you were really telling me how much you hurt, feel lonely, and are slogging through...well, then say that!

Remember..O&H isn't just for kids anymore. Adults like it, too.

See WTF there? WalkingTheField is a friend God sent. Apparently, he felt the tug and knows this is where he needs to be.

I'm gone for a week on vacation, AH...no abandonment, judgment or rejection. Look at it like a vacation from bad jokes, if you will.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((((((((((((huggin' the stuffin' out of AH)))))))))))))))

LA

I was wondering who WTF was and felt a sense of friendliness in his post. I definitely welcome a friend sent by GOD!!

I AM hurting and feel lonely, and am slogging through...
There I said it.

So you know.... Not only friends are sent by GOD. I feel GODs design is so over the top that the Devil himself thinks he is in control of certain situations. Don't you be fooled Satan!!

Any who... There are times when I feel completely at ease with this new situation, then there are times that I feel completely out of touch and control of my life.

Those times ARE the times I look to the Lord for guidance. Actually I am looking to the Lord for guidance everyday. But you get the jest!!

Thanks fo rhte encouragement and welcome to my thread WTF!!

My STBXW is avoiding contact and is talking to her friends (my friends as well) about me now being "in love" and flirting with her and trying to date. Which in her words is only making her mad.

But at least she is talking to her friends about me...

Our best friend expounded on the October conversation she had with her. She told me that B told her the guy giving her everything she needed emotionally was married with kids and older. It hadn't gotten physical. "mybilly" remember?? Pretty sure....

Doesn't matter at this point. I have told her I know. I don't have solid proof, neither do I have the means to get it now. I could use some help in this if you think I should try to continue this vein.

I don't want to play head games or anything. I still have no idea what she is doing or where she is personally.

I know that she is NOT spending much MORE time with our son than she was in Georgia. As a matter of fact, her mother is picking DS up and keeping him when it is her week to do that.

I am in Georgia one week and Alabama the next to be with my son and I cherish EVERY second I hear his voice and see his face. It is a hard thing to deal with not seeing him EVERY day.
I am having a hard time with it. There I said it!

Any ideas or suggestions on how to behave or communicate with my W?

So tell me...are you still in Plan A? Where is your intention?

Why haven't you exposed to mybilly's wife? I forgot.

Need to document her time with your DS. As an act of love, for yourself and her, to see reality. Don't get sucked into her fog the way you did at the beginning of your post.

Get to this separate and equal design by God...not over the top. But yes, I'm with you on Satan being a control freak, which is delusion and that is his weakness and his jealousy of us...

We have real choice. He has given his away. Traded it in his own mind for other powers that pale in comparison to our choices.

Exposure is up to you...private investigators, friends, etc. Getting your proof is up to you. You know all this. You are in the place where emotions sweep you back and forth, and their absence does the same.

Tough place. Choose differently.

All my same advice stands, AH...listen and repeat (if she believes you are trying to date her, that's her perspective, not your truth--you are committed to saving your marriage, reconnecting, and have to go through yourself first) stay O&H with any contact; be safe for her to be O&H...eliminate your LBs from their origins of permissions.

You know all this on your journey. What has changed? New locations...filing...what has changed in you? God reaches for you as hard as he's reaching for her. You only control you.

I think I already told WTF that I can't not laugh when I type his aconrym...he's giving me a whole new perspective on that one.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA... I know what you mean with the WTF... It fits though!

My intentions are to live a life that is an excellent example to my Son as to how a Father is to be. I have no control nor expect to over how she shows the Mothering side. My SON is going to be a father one day and it is imperative to me that he knows how to be one. I am the only one that can show him.

My intentions are that I live a satisfying life from this point forward in order that he sees how to live a good life despite hardship. I am NOT letting this wear me down any longer. I have backed off the "flirting" and trying to get her to date. Simply because you don't have to beat me about the head and shoulders to give me a clue any longer.

If she says she gets mad about it then she gets mad and pulls further away.

I will just fix my little red wagon and load it with my memories, old and new, till she sees fit to join in the pulling.

I can't fix her wagon if mine is still up on blocks right?

Anyway, you ask what has changed... I can say that I am more confident that I have made the right choice in order to be with my son at least 50% of the time. I have gained a new drive and am no longer self bastardizing...

It is a far cry from where I started and I know it is an accelerated situation. It has only been 3 weeks.

It really is a blessing to have my Son tell me at 4 yo that he is glad that I am home. He is sooo bright! GOD is in that child!!

I took him to see ICE AGE 2 today and we had an amazing time.

I don't know what kind of time she is spending with him when it is her week. I only notice the times I DO get a report of "grammy picked me up again" stuff. It is just so hard to understand what is gooing through her brain.
I know it is not my place to figure it out.

I do know that I realized that she has such a hard time forgiving anyone. She is constantly telling me how she wants to be more involved with the lord and yet she can't seem to do the one thing the Lord says we should all do ... Forgive. That also comes from her Father.

Her father and I saw each other for the first time since all this today. It was like seeing my own father again.

I don't know if I told yall how close her father and I got. He was like my own dad that past 12 years ago. It tore me apart when he wouldn't even talk to me...

That seems to be healing in his heart and mine! GOD is sooo good. We are brother Masons and he made me a Mason. We have a special bond beyond just his daughter...

LA, you asked what my intentions are, I hope I have answered you.

Seperate and equal yes... But for the most part in our minds it SEEMS over the top.

Did not expose to mybillys wife cause I did not feel I had sufficient proof. And yes I am still in Plan A, and adhering as tightly as possible to my Code.

I love Ya'll!!

AH

Good to know, AH...

I saw your focus slip over to your WW a few times.

I know your choices are yours.

I love your analogy of the red wagon.

Teach your son love is a choice you make...doesn't depend on reactions.

God is working on many levels in your life...your fear of abandonment is yours and he wants you to get to it, know it, learn about it and find out if those beliefs are still valid after four decades.

Knowing your reality is important...giving your mind the assignment of obtaining proof (not to destroy or be proven right...but proof of reality) is an important choice for you to make. Answers come when we decide what we want. You know that.

Why does separate and equal seem over the top?

I did get about FIL...I felt your devastation and knew your fear and felt your rejection. Again, you rely on others to tell you who you are, sometimes...like a father would. Don't be that father to your boy and stop being that son to a man who is separate and equal to you, with his own lessons. You are quick to gratitude, which is awesome. Be quick to gratitude in yourself.

Know your emotions and trace them back to your beliefs...I gave stillcrazy a homework assignment...might be good for you, too?

(((((AH))))

Without an image, you are loved. Without an action, you are cherished. Without a word, you exist.

In your corner,

LA

"Why does separate and equal seem over the top?"
Not the seperate and equal being over the top... GODS design seems over the top at times... to me at least...

LA, Darlin... You are so right about all of this stuff and I know you are.... Even though that is so, I have a lifetime of beliefs to evaluate and redirect if needed. I feel that I have come a long way in my journey.

I also beg to differ with you on the FIL situation. A little anyway... I have said here what hurt me or the pain I felt without saying the rest of my feelings... I knew his choice to NOT speak to me was his own choice and loss if he chose to continue that path. It is human nature to love someone and feel loss when that person is less than approachable all of a sudden.

I don't know if that is a point that needs to be equal and seperate. Nothing is equal or seperate in Love. No matter if it is love of yourself or one another. in your life I am sure there is understanding that LOVE is not seperate or equal... I may be wrong, but it is how I see it.

Let's talk about God's design...

How do you see it?

Does it sound like I'm saying you haven't come a long way in your journey? Are you asking for some admiration and appreciation? If so, please ask for it.

I have been where you are in realizing the enormity of changing my beliefs. When you begin with just one, you alert yourself that this is your desire. Self helps.

You don't have to beg to differ...you can just say you hurt, that part of your pain is from the initial rejection (and how that felt) and the other was for your fear of it continuing on forever.

No, not human nature...human choice. We get the obligation to dig out what hurts, where and why...that's part of grieving changes, losses, seeming losses, and loving ourselves. There are humans who do not see loss when someone chooses to not speak. There is a place where knowing who owns what allows you to love without loss, anyway.

Nothing is equal and separate in love. If you believe that to love is to be loved, then, no, I see that. Is that what you mean?

Hey, I'm just using up your brain cells here, enjoying your presence...all that you are feeling I'm doing, I'd appreciate you spelling it out, putting it where I can see it clearly, and risk disagreement. None of that has a thing to being here for who you are. Privilege and choice remains mine.

LA

Are you asking for some admiration and appreciation? If so, please ask for it.
No Maam, silly.. Just wanted to say it out loud so I can believe it more...

love without loss.... ??? Is it possible?

"If you believe that to love is to be loved, then, no, I see that. Is that what you mean?" Sorta... When you love you have no gaurantees that that love is to be returned equally nor can you feel seperate from what you love. In my eyes anyway. Love to me is the least logical of all things. There is NO rhyme nor reason to be found. Therefore equal and seperate do not apply to it.

((((((LA))))))

I know that the choice to be here for me is your choice and privelege. I am priveleged to have you as a dear friend.

I will remember to extend my explanations of what happens in order to cut down on the misunderstanding. Of course that is the most wonderful thing about friendship... It is neither equal nor seperate either.

Gods Design is so Over the top for us meer Mortals that it is grossly misunderstood by people of high intelect. And I know that the most simple of us have the best understanding of the plan. Or shall we say the "meek shall inherit the earth." I don't have a clue what I am talking about but it sounded good!! LOL

What's wrong with asking for admiration and appreciation?

You are admirable...and appreciated. I was going for why you won't allow yourself to ask for it.

You are not the person who first posted here. You are more aware and informed, choosing your priorities and facing yourself each day. If you are hearing me say you haven't, then use that as a signal to self that you're not letting stuff in as you promised yourself you would. Maybe you had the belief that if you changed enough, she would be with you and your family would be intact right now...challenge that belief, because it is causing you pain and doubt.

What are you doing daily to show love and appreciation for yourself...admiration, attention?

How are you practicing O&H?

I brought up the separate and equal again because I saw you slipping into your WW. I'll lay that down for now, by mutual agreement, for later. We can't get to where we are all one until we really get the separate and equal parts.

Back to asking for it...when I bump your thread when not hearing from you...I am asking for your attention, right? Asking is a sign of respect, honesty. Darn, I'm weaving back to it again, aren't I?

LOL

Can anyone say OCD? LOL

((((AH))))

Faith in yourself is faith in God. It is praising his creation, because you are his. Made for him when you choose to love him...and I know you do.

Will you get to be with DS on Easter? Did you know I'll be gone all week on vacation? Just occurred to me to ask. I know I ask a lot...and I'm okay with that. LOL

LA

Lookie, lookie what I stumbled across...from 2/26/06...

"Ok I have a situation where my W is evidently involved with her boss. If I expose to his wife, my wife loses her career. If I don't it possibly continues with even more lies. If I confront the OM it can be a major LB.

I have read this post and havent found an answer to the possible LB situation.

Does the "if you stop seeing him I won't tell" approach ever work?? Personally I don't agree with that. I want to tell the OMs W. I want to tell the whole damn family and all her company!! I am a much smarter and loving husband.

Just need some heavy advice please "

Tell me, AH, how far did you get to a decision about this?

What do you see exposure as now?

LA