Thank You TT!!!

I feel a lot better today....even better than yesterday. I think maybe it may have been a panic attack/withdrawls because I've been on Xanax for quite a long time, but was unable to afford to go to the doctor for my refill.

I felt like I got hit by a mack truck yesterday, but feel much better today.

Believer-

I know that Xanax is highly addictive.....but it works really well for my panic attacks (I still had them even on AD's...and we tried a TON of them). So the physical symptoms that manifested that day were part panic attack, part withdrawls. I am pretty knowledgeable about this stuff because of my medical background....but for some reason it didn't occur to me that this could be the problem. (Duhhhh!)

I think I am going to have the doctor put me back on AD's...but can't do that until after my insurance kicks in....which should be around April 27th.

God Bless,

-Caren

Okay, so there is no OW. So what? The way you were living was unacceptable, right? Mark knows what he needs to do. But he still wants to maintain control and have things his way. But he isnt interested yet in giving you what you need. You had enough and needed the peace and quiet of not being caught up in that mess. Thus you decided on Plan B. It was a good decision at the time, and I just wish (as I told Mimi in the middle of her mess) that you would stay dark and let him work this thru.

Mark thinks you are trying to control him. Everytime you educate him, or write to him or tell him what he needs to do, then he will perceive that what you are doing is trying to manipulate him. And he would be correct!!

Instead, Plan B is NOT supposed to be about the WS! I keep telling everyone this. You are a prime example of why Plan B is not to be used to change the WS. If it is, then it is perceived by the WS as manipulation.

Plan B is about you getting out of the mess. Period. You knew that things were going nowhere as they were. So, it was time to exit the mess and leave Mark in it. But you havent fully exited...and you keep allowing him to perceive you as trying to take control and manipulate him. And that will NEVER work!


I say again Caren...you need this time alone. You dont need your husband right now. Not the way he is.

And one more thing...where's your faith? In your Plan B? In you? In your daughter? In your husband?

Or is it in Jesus? And if it is in Jesus, then why worry? Isnt He on the throne? Isnt He in control? Doesnt He work all things for the good of those that love Him?

This Plan B time should be you resting in the Lord. Satan contineus these attacks because he knows they work on you. When you stop reacting to them, and trust in the Lord...they will stop.

Believe me...I know!!

In His arms.

AMEN!! I know, too. Thank-you, Lord Jesus!!

Hiya Caren...I've never responded to you before, however I'm not new to MB. I used to post ages ago and was, like you, immersed in the drama that only a failed Plan B can create. Veteran MB'ers such as Star*Fish, Tak, and Le nearly ripped their hair out trying to get me to do a proper Plan B....I understood all that they said, but me, being the know it all, thought that I could fudge with the contact just a bit....uh uh. It just didn't work. However, there came a time when I realized even the most simple contact had the most detrimental effects on me...not to mention my children. I wanted to share this quote with you. I have it taped on my pc screen and referred to it each and every day when I finally managed to do a good Plan B. It was my lifeline...it kept me focussed and made me recognize that the contact, no matter how simple, was just not good.

The happiness of most people we know is not ruined by great catastrophes or fatal errors, but by the repetition of slowly destructive little things......Ernest Dimnet

I finally managed, after several failed attempts to cut myself off from the madness of my husband's cake eating. My DDay was 3+ years ago and I will be honest, I'm still not divorced. I had hoped that my husband would finally come to his senses, but he didn't. He had his mind made up and unfortunately chose the OW. However, Plan B is not about saving your marriage per se...it is about saving yourself and if the marriage is saved, you have a double bonus.

At this time you are all over the place. Mark's attendance at the hospital, while it made you feel good, did not mean anything other than he cares. Of course he cares, he has a history, a child, etc. Does that mean that he will return to you a repetent and remorseful H? Right now, it doesn't seem so. I recall something similar happening to me. My WS showed all the concern and husbandly affection that I was waiting for...it didn't last too long before the OW crooked her finger and he was back there. It was then that I recognized that I wasn't worthy of crumbs...I was worthy of the entire cake and if he wasn't willing to give it to me...well, he wasn't having any part of me. I finally got it....and then my recovery...personal recover was to begin.

No one will discount your feelings Caren. I loved my WS like no other, but you know what...I love my children more...I needed to gain my self-respect and self-confidence back..they did not deserve to be abandoned by both parents. My WS chose another woman...I was going to choose myself. You are nearly there...you made the move to move out...now, you must move forward. Stop making Mark your priority...he abandoned that position in your life a very long time ago. Your children feel your unhappiness; I know my children suffered silently. It is up to you to save yourself and your family from the madness driven by the contact.

First you must cut him out of your life for now. No discussion of him whatsoever with your children. His loss is acute enough; any mention just reinforces the pain. Focus on positive things...plan something with them and YOU. You and the children are the family now and that when and if their father decides to rejoin your circle that you will tackle it when it comes. Create new memories and do not rely on him. You are addicted to Mark and the drama...just like I was with my WS.....each day away from it, is a day that you will become stronger. Trust me...it happens.

Do not answer the phone and if you happen to get caught off guard...be civil and SHORT!!!!! No talk about anything. Do not accept any praise from him nor should you accept him calling you cutesy names. He knows how to push your buttons I'm afraid and he has little respect for you. He needs to understand that his power his useless over you anymore; you are strong...you just need to find it within you.

Find as many people as possible that can help you keep away. Try not to be there at all when he comes to pick up your daughter...even if you have to sit at a neighbor's house. You must instruct your daughter that no information about you is to be shared with him; sit your daughter down and explain why. You need to remove yourself from this and taking the appropriate steps will make it easier. You can do it Caren....and when you do, you will think to yourself..."Why did I wait so long?"

At 3+ years out with WH living with OW do we speak to each other? Yes, about the children only. Does he try to sneak in some other subject matter? Of course, but I'm too smart and way beyond caring to reciprocate. Do I hate him? I'm angry that he didn't find "us" worthy enough to try and save our marriage, but I don't hate him...feel sorry is more like it. He's going to feel the pain in the end, just as I felt the pain of his betrayal. But the best part Caren is that I've moved forward. I'm planning a trip to take my kids to London....we sat down the kids and I and made a plan on how much to save and how to do it...we've made it a family project and are going to have fun! We do things each and every weekend and if their father calls then he does, if not...it's his loss. Life does move forward a bit slower than usual, but it is a much healthier and safer "move" as everyone is much happier.

Remove yourself and your children from the drama Caren...I beg you to only see your children being hurt by this. You cannot change Mark...he is the only one who can do that and until he is ready and committed, you are spinning your wheels. Gather your courage, strength and your faith in God....lay the burden at his cross and he will get you through this....

Good Luck and I'm always available to talk.

Kim

SW - I'm a Londoner living far from home. If you want any info or help with your trip, I'm happy to help. Let me know. TT

Hiya TT...how sweet! Thanks sooo much. I could use all the help I could get in planning this trip. The agenda thus far only includes the Tower...I think a Ripper Tour would be a blast, but we are looking to keep it historical. I've been to England 4 times, but mainly did the siteseeing up north as my outlaws lived closer to Manchester. I feel I was cheated of the experience, so I want my children to get the chance; I know we'll have a blast!!! Where do you live now? Here in the States?

Your offer is so kind and I couldn't be more appreciative....thanks...kimmie

I know you're right....both Mortar and Silent(I'm not forgetting you Mimi), I know I haven't released this. It hurts so much. He's the love of my life, and I am so scared to let him go.......I can't bare the thought of living without him, and I know I'm only making it worse. But I miss him SO much.

I'm not a solitary person, I need someone to hold me, I need someone to make me feel safe. I don't feel safe here alone.

I'm not in a bad neighborhood or anything....but I feel exposed and unsafe without him.

He said he just doesn't know if he can get his "In Love" feelings back, that I was his whole life, and he wanted nothing else, but that I'd hurt him too many times, and that's true....was that justification for what he did? NO!

The love is in there....I know it is. I am so weak. I used to be so strong.....this has shattered me, I don't know which was is up.

I have grown in different ways, in example, I am having trouble paying the rent, so this time, I didn't go to him, I went to my church and I went and finally got on assistance. The last time, I just said "You need to step up to the plate, take care of your family, and basically forced him back with me......this time I took care of things, with God's help, But I still NEED him.

TELL ME HOW TO STOP NEEDING MY HUSBAND....I don't know how to stop needing him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

-Caren

Sorry Caren

SW - my email address is [email]alidadolata@hotmail.com.[/email] If you drop me a line sometime soon, I'll give you some ideas. Once I hear from you, this message will self-destruct so as to protect the innocent! TT

Caren,

Let me ask you a few questions. And as I do, please understand that I am not being flippant.

Who do you need more...your husband or Jesus? If it is Jesus, then didnt He say that He has everything you need, that He will provide everything you need?

Look. I thought I "needed" my wife. And in a way, I did. But what I have learned thru this that if I trust in Him, then He will make sure my needs were met.

This time alone should be used to see that you arent alone. You should be drawing nearer to Him. He will never let you down...never abandon you.

You see, this isnt just about your marriage or about Mark. It also is Jesus trying to get you to draw nearere to Him. If Mark is more important or more needed by you than Jesus, then you have placed Mark over God. You NEED Jesus...

I know how you feel. I know you miss him. I know you miss SF. As much as I love SF and thought I could never go more tha a few days without it, it was Jesus that showed me that I could.

So, I think this is a test for you Caren. I think Jesus is trying to get you to get YOUR priorities straight.

In His arms.

Mortar-

I think you're right. I thought I had taken Mark off of that pedestal, but I apparently have not.

I do need to put ALL my trust in Jesus. I need to make him the most important thing in my life.

He has gained great importance to me over the last year and a half, and I could have never made it through it this far without him.

I have been trying VERY HARD to get right with the Lord, perhaps I'm not doing the right things.

When I said I felt alone.....it's not just that Mark isn't here, my DD14 is going to be moving with her father and Brooklyn, of course, wants to do things with her friends.

Instead of being sad and down that I am by myself in this apartment, I should use that time to learn more in the Bible, and to foster my relationship with God. Although, admittedly sometimes I don't understand the meanings of some of the things. (Are there study guides that can be purchased?)

My church has a men's bible study, but none for women. I am eager to learn, and go to Sunday School every week, not just the church service. Although I absolutely enjoy the worship, I feel the desire to LEARN.

Your words always help me Mortar. Everyone's words do, but for some reason, I don't know if it's the wording, or that I know that Jesus is number 1 in your life. It shows with every word you type.

Thank you and God Bless You,

-Caren

P.S. TT.......I will e-mail you right now.

TT-

You have mail.

God Bless,

-Caren

Thanks Caren.

Want a little hint??? I dont always know what to do either.

You said "perhaps I am not doing the right things." Caren, maybe this is where you fall short. You see, it isnt the doing. Sure, more Bible study is needed (yes, there are many online places...I can give you links if you want).

But you know what He really wants? He wants you to just sit down and be with Him. Talk to Him. Laugh and cry with Him. He is not some distant grandfather you barely know.

I have typed this story on here before, but I will do so again so that you might see thru this story...what Jesus is really after.

There was a guy once who one day, prayed and said that He wanted to spend an hour every morning with Jesus. So, he set it up where every morning at 5am, he would meet Jesus in his living room next to the fireplace. Every morning, this guy would sit there and pray and converse with Jesus. He would talk about his day, about his dreams, about his problems. He would end his conversation with Jesus by thanking Him for meeting with him and he would see Jesus tomorrow.

This went on for many months. But one day, he got a promotion at work. This required more hours out of this guy (we will call him John). Because of the longer hours, John was more tired at night and began getting less sleep. He would still get up in the morning and meet with Jesus, but John was more tired and more hurried during their time together. Eventually, the time got shorter and shorter until one day, John missed a morning with Jesus.

That night he realized what he had done and prayed, saying he was sorry. He redoubled his efforts at meeting with Jesus. But over time, John would miss times with Jesus here and there. And then a week at a time. Eventually, he stopped meeting at all.

Several months later, John woke up early on a Saturday morning and headed downstairs to go out and get the morning paper. As he passed by the living room, he had a vision of Jesus sitting next to the fireplace alone.

John walked in the room and fell to his knees crying. He asked Jesus "Have you been here this whole time...everyday?" Jesus replied "John, I told you that I would meet with you. I enjoy our talks. I enjoy hanging out with you. It is why I created you."

John began to cry and ask Jesus for forgiveness. But Jesus said "It's okay, John. Why dont we begin again. Tell me about your day."

-----------

Caren, He doesnt want you to do anything. Sure, it is important to have Bible study and the rest. You should do those things. But that isnt what makes your relationship with Him. That is only a part of it.

He wants to meet with you. He wants you to trust Him. He wants you to lay your head on His shoulder at night and fall asleep, knowing that He is protecting you.

Do you understand? This isnt a God somewhere up there. This isnt a list of rules to follow. This is a relationship with a real person. And all of the relationship rules that we all subscribe to here also apply to your relationship with Him.

We can help with the understanding. We can give you some links so that you can begin a Bible study (who knows...maybe you could get a home study women's group together and use these studies I give you to get other ladies together and study the Word).

But you need to get back to the central part of being a Christian. You are one because you have a direct, intimate, loving relationship with Jesus Christ. He is a real person, a real man...who loves you more than ANY man on this Earth could ever love you. And He wants to spend every minute of everyday with you. Going thru your life with you.

In His arms.

How to stop needing him? Read about co-dependency. That is what did it for me. I was holding on so tight and the thought of not being together was devastating me. I was taking whatever crumbs I could get. Not anymore. I do not need him to make me feel valued or happy. I do that for myself now. You need to get to a place where you are OK being alone, otherwise, your M will never be healthy.

Oops Caren - the email was to help SW (Silent Witness) plan her trip to London. How typical that you would imagine on your thread that this was all about you!!! Sorry. But you have mail anyway <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Caren sweetie...you love the husband from the past...not the person he is at this moment. Unfortunately, the word addiction can be used for a WS as it is. I too was "addicted" to my WS....after doing a Proper Plan B, I was able to see that I was addicted to the person that he was, not the person he became. We tend to take good memories and superimposed them onto the person that we really no longer know. Unfortunately, the hard work is two-fold for the WS because they have to return to baseline [the person they were], they take recovery from there. You do see glimpses of the old Mark, but is a glimpse all you are worthy of.

Just like it is extremely difficult for a WS to break their addiction to the OP, it is equally as distressing for the BS to break their addiction from the WS. It sounds awfully strange, but true. We hate to be alone, but eventually, not having him there will become the norm.

You need to establish a new life. Love never really dies Caren, but it can go dormant until it is re-ignited. In the meantime, create a new life, establish new goals, and work towards a better life. You and only you have to admit this to yourself and believe it. Plan your life without Mark....if it is meant to be, you will return to each other. But you cannot live in the continud storm of madness and expect that you will recapture. Talk is just that....words. At this stage of the game, you need to get healthy, and then when you feel good about Caren, your situation can you then entertain Mark and his wanting to act upon the talk.

Good Luck sweetie!

{{{Caren}}}}

thinking about you!

Kim

Mortar-

Thank you....you have given me a lot to think about. I would like the links you were talking about if you wouldn't mind posting them to me.

TT-
Don't worry about it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Silent-

I know that I am addicted to my husband, and it's very hard for me to let go. But I know I have to.

God Bless You All, for all your help.

-Caren

Okay....going back to bed. (Went to be at 11:30 pm but woke up because I thought I heard the phone ring).

Gotta get up in 3 1/2 hours to go to work.

God Bless,

-Caren

Thinking of you Caren........

Caren,

You aren't alone in being addicted to a person. I didn't know that was possible until all the A stuff happened.

There's a book, "Facing Love Addiction" that really helped me to get a handle on this...and it has the spouse-of-choice in it as an Avoidance Addict.

I think you might really benefit from it.

That's all I got. Of course, my standard...

Get your focus off your H and onto you and stop starving yourself!

LA