wow! what a weekend. Im going to try notbe so excited but I am. We went out together sat night for her b-day. We had a great time. I tried ecspeacially hard not to be "attached" her like she said I was last time. So I kind of in a way ignored her but not really ya know?! I did my own thing I danced with her co-worker played pool with some people I didn't even know and even started conversation with people I didn't know. I think it kind of worked. Whenever I was dancing with her co-worker she came out and danced with us. Don't get me wrong I gave her attention! I just let her do her thing and I did my own as hard as it was! I took your suggestion with the love song to her from me. You should have seen OM's face!! Priceless! I whispered in her ear happy birthday and I love you. She squeezed me in tight and said I love you to baby..

Later on I seen her on her phone texting so I just went over by her and said who ya textin all your friends are here? She said " the dumb*&# behind the bar." I said why
She said " B/c he texted me and said your getting pretty close to your husband don't you think?" I said really?!
She said yeah so I'm telling him for the third time that me and him are done and that I can be as close to my husband as I want b/c he is my husband! I told you we were in counseling and I cant work on my marriage if you keep bothering me!"

Now you know why Im kind of excited. I think she had a real moment of clear thinkin! I know I still have to take it day by day but just let me take today like im a champion! It feels so good I can actually breath without my heart feeling like its working overtime!

Who knows maybe by the time she gets home from work she'll have changed her mind about things. Well then i guess its back to the beginning.

Im going to see how tonight and tomorrow goes then Im going to ask her to write a no contact letter to him. Im still not sure if she wants to work on our marriage b/c she hasn't said it directly to me. Hopefully that will come. I really think she does inside but she is still undesided what she wants ya know?

I talked to her foggy friend too sat. night. I just said to her that I realize you and my w have alot of fun together but I would appreciate it if she would not call her every night and ask her to come to the bar. She said "well I can promise you that if she says shes with me at the bar that she really is." I said "I believe she is at the bar with you I never said she wasn't, thats not the problem. Its the other GUY thats with youguys here and its what happens after the bar that really is the problem!" She just kinda looked at me with a dumb founded look on her face. Then I said "I would really appreciate this b/c not only do I love my wife and I want her to be at home and spending time with me but she also has a daughter that really needs her at home. W is a married mother being at the bar till 2 or 3 oclock in marning is no place for a married mom!. So please if you two do go out maybe you could say you are leaving early and maybe say something like maybe you should go home to your husband and little girl to my W. Even if you just get in car and go around the block and come back to the bar, I don't care I just want my wife at home with us. She was just speechless. I maybe went overboard but I had a little liquid courage in my system and quit frankly I don't really care for this chick in the first place. But after standing there for a couple minutes of silence she said "ya know WA, You are a bigger man than I realized a man could ever be. Personally I don't know anyman that would have every put up with what you are going through and I commend you for that. I also want you to know that I think it is ending very fast between WW and OM. I think WW is realizing what a mistake she made. I hope you guys can get through this. I said "I think we can but there will be some definete changes if she decides to work on our marriage and this bar is one of them. She said what do you mean? I said I feel it will be very hard to work on our marriage as long as she comes here. Everytime she does and she sees him it like starting the A all over and I cant have that. So maybe you guys will have to consider a different place when you want to be with her.

Well we talked alot more and that was about all I said aboutme and my WW. Sun when me and the girls got home from church we put candles on the cake we baked earlier and went into the bedroom and sang happy birthday to the W and woke her up. I think she was kinda tickled. I don't think she expected anything. We all gave her cards and kisses. My card had an hour massage gift certificate from yours truely in it and she cashed it in already last night. My hands are sore today. I told her last night that theres alot more of those in store if she wants them. She just smiled and gave me a kiss.

It really feels good to write this today. I hope the rest of my post are like this one but I know I have alot of road to cover yet and there will definitly be some bumps but today Im greatful for the last couple of days.

We'll see what happens.

Thanks for the sharing your good days as well as the rough ones. That's what counts as being truthful and intimate. Good job on all counts. I'm so glad you stomached the pain to go and acquitted yourself so well.

Yes, you are being what many women never believe a male could be...a real man. Don't forget--many of their fathers, uncles, brothers, grandfathers only showed them intolerance and said love was conditional. You're showing that love means learning, growing, forgiving and knowing you don't just have to cut and run.

Thanks for warming my heart on a chilly day,

LA

well last night was sort of a something different. She didn't get home from work till around 7. I could tell she was pretty tired. I made her supper and we just sat on the couch and watched tv.

When we went to bed she said "how am I going to love you like I used to?" I said "Im not sure honey" She said "how are you going to make me love you again like you said in your letters?" I said "I think you maybe misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying that I've realized that I wasn't being the husband you needed me to be at times and Im willing to change those things and that I think will help you to open up to me again."
she "why would you want to change who you are thats who you are!"
me "Im not changing who I am Im changing how I do things"
she "I don't thin Ill ever be able to have sex with you again. Im not sexually attracted to you."
me "Is there something with the way I act or maybe im not physically attractive to you anymore?"
she "no, I love your body and there is nothing wrong with you Im just not sexually attracted to you. Couldn't you tell something was wrong when we would only do it like once a month?"
me "I asked you if there was something I could do back then and you just said theres nothing wrong with you its me Im just to tierd or something I just don't feel like doing it."

Me "W I love you. lets just take this one day at a time and we'll work things out ok."

she "I love you to I just wish I could feel the way I used to about you. I want to cuddle with you and do the things we used to do but I just don't want to now."

as she said that she started crying. I reached over and tried to give her a hug and she just said no.
so I just rolled over.

I want so bad to say everything will be fine and we definetly have some tough times ahead of us but we can get through them. i don't know though. I don't know if she talked to om at all yesterday and if that why she was the way she was or what.

This morning I gave her a card and she told me she had one for me in her glove compartment. I grabbed it and it was really nice. I said somthing like for my husband. we are together forever, a challange yes but well worth the effort.
Then she wrote I love you and signed it.

I really hope it is really how she feels. I just want her to open up to me again b/c now Im a way better listener than I've ever been and I want to show her that I am.

I don't know Im still hangin by a thread.

Thanks everyone and Happy Valentines day!

Well i've been thrown off of cloud 9. So back to my face in the dirt. Im so broken now. Its like it starting all over.

Last night WW went to bar after work. Not the bar OM works at. On my way home from picking up the little one from daycare I went past where she said she was. She was there but his car was ther too! NICE!! I just cant believe she can tell him one thing then two days later she back to talkin and spending time with him! AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!
I texted her and asked her what he thought of the necklace I bought for her for V-day? LB i know I'm sorry but I couldn't help it. Instantly she said what are you talking about? me I know he is there with you. She said "he is at the other side of the bar talking to someone else I don't even know. I haven't talked to him.
me" oh yeah okay i guess I should know that since you told him it was over the other night. what was I thinkin.
she yes
Well she came home to "freshin" up before her and her foggy friend went out. I loked at her phone. Full of text messages to him!! she caught me. What the blank are you doing. I said "W please stop lieing to everyone!" you talked to him and know your going to go to his bar b/c he is workin?
She left pist off.

Whatever. She said she didn't know if she was going to come home or not. I said do what you feel is right.

She came home about 2:30am. Stood in the gargage and talked to him on the phone for about 10 min.

I was up all night. I wrote her a 6 page letter telling her that I still love her and that I want to work on our marriage still and that she is tearing us and our family apart. I also asked her to honestly give our marriage a chance.

she texted me this morning after she read it.
WA I dont know what to tell you. I read your letter and though about what you said. I dont want to get a divorce but thats the direction we're headed. im not happy with you and havent been for a long time. you know that. I dont have even close to the same feelings I had for you when we met. I tried to get them back but they are gone. Im sorry because this isgoing to hurt you even more even when you sy that I cant hurt you anymore. I dont know whats in store for me in the future-right now i dont see us being together for the ride. im sorry. This is truely how i feel. you dont listen to me when i tell you what I want. maybe you dont like what you hear i dont know. im sorry is all i can say.


I replied
WW i know you don't have those feelings about me you used to have. I felt I to was losing feelings for you. So I took along look at me and us. I decided to find some help from the internet. I to have no idea what the future holds be we can do something now to help our future. I dont want a divorce either. this may be a misjudgement so dont take it the wrong way. You cant honestly say you've tried. Think about what you did to try? what where the things you did to try to make our relationship better? Just something to think about. W i want you to be a part of my future as my HAPPY wife. It will take time. W you wouldn't be so sorry if you really wanted your future to not include me. I could be wrong though I guess. Your right I would be totally devastated if you decide D. not only that but our child and our families would be too. If we honestly try and things don't work out then yes D is best for everyone. 5 years married is worth some fixin time. Thank you for taking the time to read the letter. I ask you to think about it some more. W I love you.


she
Though about it. probably going to think about it some more. for now i really want to live by myself:)

me
no reply

she
Any comments?

Me
Please stay. If not your choice. I wish I had an easy button.

she there are no easy buttons!

me I know. That sucks.


Someone please help me! Do I stay and make her leave if she wants to be by herself. She has no place to go. maybe her friends or OM house. I don't want that. I could take the little one and go live with my dad and she can worry about the house and everything. Why is this so hard? How can someone keep changing there mind so much. Im honestly scared I am loseing my family. I don't want that. I just don't want it. I feel so sad today i cant think! What do I do? I feel like she has already made up her mind. and it not me! What did I ever do to make her want to hurt me so bad!!!

NEED HELP!

WA,

Let's do this first...move your post to Infidelity General Questions. Put a link to this thread in it, so people can catch up.

I don't get that you are listening to your wife and acknowledging her thoughts and feelings. Not agreeing, just acknowledging. I don't get where you understand that your wife if fogged out and you are upset at her lying? Totally confusing. Your wife is lying in every way...WS do that. They have to, for the most part. The whole affair is to run away from reality. I don't know how else to get you to understand that.

Right now, she has no concept of love, devotion, commitment and integrity. She just doesn't. And you can't make her.

You are in charge of your own emotions, thoughts and beliefs. You are. No one else. If you choose Plan A, then you expose. You haven't been able to make yourself do that--if you can't do that, then how do you expect yourself to be able to acknowledge but not be devastated to her words?

What do you want, WA? You want the affair to end? Tell everyone. Show everyone. Use the cell phone records...copy them, show all the contact all the time.

Show yourself how much you care about you and the marriage. Educate yourself really well what disrespectful judgments are (DJs) and where you give yourself permission to live in that statement of mind.

her email, one DJ: "Im sorry because this isgoing to hurt you even more even when you sy that I cant hurt you anymore." She's telling you what and how much you're going to feel, and not honoring that you have said you can't be hurt anymore, that you're full.

your email, I lost count: "I dont want a divorce either. this may be a misjudgement so dont take it the wrong way. You cant honestly say you've tried. Think about what you did to try? what where the things you did to try to make our relationship better? Just something to think about. W i want you to be a part of my future as my HAPPY wife. It will take time. W you wouldn't be so sorry if you really wanted your future to not include me. I could be wrong though I guess. Your right I would be totally devastated if you decide D. not only that but our child and our families would be too. If we honestly try and things don't work out then yes D is best for everyone. 5 years married is worth some fixin time. Thank you for taking the time to read the letter. I ask you to think about it some more. W I love you."

You began very well, with "I" statements. Then you slipped into telling her about her feelings, expectations, and what she should think about more...

"I don't want you to take it the wrong way."

Blow it out of your selection of words...

"I fear you are not hearing me, either. I fear being misunderstood, just as you believe I have misunderstood you."

"I've learned communication is a skill that takes practice. I believe I can learn to great communication which includes listening and respecting your opinons."

Yes, WA...you stay if someone has to leave to be by themselves. You fight for your baby because she's been abandoning her daugther and that is a consequence. She may feel her DD is too young to remember, but I must tell you, this affects your daughter and will for the rest of her life. She'll have a lot of issues, including abandonment, to work through. Yes, the adulterer has to leave if there is leaving to be done.

Plan B letter needs to be composed and posted, in preparation. Why does it matter your wife believes she has no where else to go? She is choosing her life...every step of the way. She can sleep in her car, go to a shelter...hey, anything for love, right? There are a lot places she can be by herself to think (but that is a lie, you understand...she's not even wanting to leave...just that you stop loving her and leave her to her A in peace!!!)

Work out how you can stay in the house without her. Did you find out about filing for legal seperation and primary caregiver status? Your wife will have to pay child support. Let her figure that out. You get your facts from a legal standpoint, 'k?

"Why is this so hard? How can someone keep changing there mind so much." Drugs are tough on brains and emotions. Your WW is on the fantasy drug. Up and down, one emotion combating another, combating another.

She said she really doesn't want a divorce...but she doesn't want to be vulnerable to your pain. What's your part in that?

You are experiencing the most difficult life event possible, in my experience. More than death of loved ones, disownment or homelessness. I've had all three, so I'm not making stuff up here.

How is it going with counseling?

What are you doing for yourself in your hours at home with pumpkin?

What did you do that was so wrong to warrant this depth of rejection?

Nothing.

We can make others in our minds into giant problems...that doesn't mean they are. We do it to justify our actions, which usually means, we are acting contrary to our adult beliefs of ourselves. We act childish because we feel childish...pain can regress us.

That's why I emphasize listening and repeating. Children feel rejected when they are not heard. When they are, they feel more adult, validated, real. Doesn't take agreement to let someone know they are heard. Takes restraint within yourself from reacting in your old pattern.

"I hear you want to change your life. That you don't want to divorce but feel that is where you are headed. I hear you saying that you do not want to intentionally hurt me. You are not happy with your life and you believe that I know that. I hear you saying you do not have feelings for me and do not believe they can come back. I hear you saying that you believe the future will be more of the what you are experiencing today. Is that correct?"

Your choice to believe her version of the future. You didn't believe it before. You believed that love banks can be refilled, needs met, lovebusters eliminated. What do you believe now?

What are your thoughts on exposure, no contact letter, transparency and Plan B?

Stay centered. You are fighting your moods because you buy into her current words and forget your goal. You are expecting her to do or say or react differently. Your expectation. Change that, 'k?

You can do this. What book are you reading now that will help you?

LA

Im not sure how to move this post. Or do I start another one and tell them about this thread?

I honestly let the the text she wrote me this morning get to me way to much and now I don't know what the he11 Im doing. Im so confused right now. All I've done all morning is cry. I feel like such a dumba** for thinking she was actually going to work on our marriage like she said a couple days ago. She lifted me up like she did so many times before and then just threw me down. I seen it coming I just was telling myself it cant happen again! well it did so here I am.

I dont want a divorce. I want my marriage and my family! I want us all to be happy. I've tried to tell her that pumkin with have withdrawl problems even if we do split now. Someday she'll ask questions why her mommy and daddy don't live together. She seems to think that as long as we both love her she'll be fine. She will be b/c she won't be with WW! Im sorry Im so pist right now I just want to go do the paper work and take her to the f-ing cleaners before she tries to do it with me!!

I know I wasn't there for here when she needed me most. I've changed that. whenever and if ever she is home im there on the couch in the next room with her. I try so hard not bring up our R. B/c I know what she say. She'll say the same things she said this morning! I know I shouldn't have wrote some of those things. I just thought that damn it don't you know what your thinkin women! I guess I should have just backed off and said it you desicions that you have to make and the consequences are something you will have to deal with.

how come it seems like she is seeing clearly one day and the next She cant even see. Maybe its just b/c she is saying things I want to hear. I really have to regroup my thoughts and decesions here. I wanted to give her a chance to end the A herself without exposure besides the friends that know. Maybe its time to help her out! Your right what the he11 have I got to lose now for sure sounds like shes out the door anyway!

Counseling, I have an appt. set up for saturday. For boh of us but it will probably be just me now. Who knows. I haven't even told her yet.

I still believe love banks can be refilled and love busters can be eliminated. I still want my precious wife. I just wish I knew where she was! This crazy women has taken over my kind, passionate, thoughtful wife and I cant get rid of her!!!

I have to look at plan B. I don't know about it. I haven't even given plan A a run for its money. My own fault. maybe its to late to run plan A and I'll have to jump to plan B.
Transparency?? You mean don't talk to her or basically acknowledge her and her actions?

No contact letter. Thats kinda funny. I think she might do it BUT it will never happen!! I just now in my gut that she still wants the A to bad to even try with me.

Still need help.

Thanks LA

On moving your post...you create a new thread and then, in your signature line, post the link to this thread...and the others you had/have going. More input is needed. I feel like I'm failing.

"I feel like such a dumba** for thinking she was actually going to work on our marriage like she said a couple days ago. She lifted me up like she did so many times before and then just threw me down. I seen it coming I just was telling myself it cant happen again! well it did so here I am."

Please own your part, WA. Please. She didn't lift you up or throw you down. You did that. With your expectations...and it is good you own that you lie to yourself, that is part of the expectations game you play.

She may tell you tomorrow she wants to recover and the next she doesn't. She's not in recovery yet. She's in contact, in an A, and foggy. You know this.

Did you expose the weekend you saw your family and hers?

You give yourself permission to DJ all over the place when you're hurt. Please revoke that permission. It is adding heaps to your own pain. You might otherwise be feeling a little disappointed, maybe confused, but not so raw and bleeding.

You do that to yourself. Please stop it. You're worth more than this self-destruction.

You can bleed here, but no DJing, 'k?

How long did you mess up in your marriage?

Could that be the length of being new that it will take to amend and gain your marriage back?

Exposure will help you not to lie to yourself.

You can't make your wife believe that her actions are hurting your daughter right now or in the future. You believe this, statistics prove it. Don't throw it at her. Keep it within your belief statements and repeat hers back to her.

"how come it seems like she is seeing clearly one day and the next She cant even see." Because there is your wife and your WW doing battle inside of her. You really want your wife to win. Patience, fortitude, forgiveness for her and yourself for each miscommunication, following Plan A, detaching with love...all these things you must be willing to do every day for your wife to win.

Prayer.

Meditation for you. Exploring more changes within yourself and finding out why you react and feel what you do.

Do you want truth or love? Or do you want truthful love? Exposure is a loving thing, not a threat or act of revenge. It is revealing a dangerous secret to save someone's life, in a way. Your fear of how you will be seen could let your WW drown. Your choice.

"Transparency?? You mean don't talk to her or basically acknowledge her and her actions?" Transparency is what comes after NC. It is her being an open book to you about her whereabouts, communications, and choices to earn your trust back.

"I just now in my gut that she still wants the A to bad to even try with me." This is the most lethal DJ in the hundred within your post. This one will kill your marriage.

You feel in your gut that she wants the A more than you. That's a stab to yourself based on nothing but conjecture, assumptions and mindreading. Stop stabbing yourself!

Not telling her about the counseling appt is another stab to your own gut. You are creating huge resentments. That's like taking poison and waiting for her to die.

Stop.

Write yourself a love letter. Tell yourself who you are, warts and all, and that you are whole, complete, lovable and valuable. You are. Get there before you bleed to death. Pleae. Work on that. Then reread Plan A, a hero's journey. You have to choose to be one.

LA

I realized yesterday Im being way to hard on myself. Like you said Im stabbing myself. I stopped Im not goiing to do it anymore! Aleast try my very hardest not to.

No I haven't exposed her A to our families yet. I have thought about writing "Im cheating on my husband" across the back of her car. you know how little kids always write wash me. HEEHEE wouldn't that be kinda funny.

Last night I went and picked up my little pumkin b/c W was home by noon but went home and slept all afternoon. Wonder why? spose cause she was out till 230 the night before. I dont really care anymore if she wants to disrespect me because I know who I am and she cant hurt me anymore. It still really bothers me she does this to her daughter. To disrespectful to go get her from daycare b/c she not responsible enough to come home at a decent time the night before! I don't get it. Her choice I guess.

I got home and then WW went to get some groceries. I wanted to go with but I just stayed home. Didn't ask. thought if she wants me with she'll ask. She got back and I had to go to my oldest daughters parent teacher confrence. I asked the W if she wanted to go with. "not my kid not my problem!"
W has never missed anything weather it be a confrence program, bible camp program whatever it was she always went with me. And now she makes a comment like that. I just said "well thats your choice I'll see you after while then"
good bye. I went to conferences and then I called her and told her that I was done with conferences but I was going to a friends house for awhile. She asked me like a 101 questions about how my daughter is doing in this and that.
I just wanted to say "my kid my problem" but I just answers as short and considerate as I could.

so I spent a long time at my friends house and she called later on and told me she was going to bed and I just said ok good night honey ill be home by 12 for sure ok. She just mad a grunting sound and say just stay out once! I said well i would like to be home by then so I was just letting you know when I planned on being home kay. She alright good night. After of course she asked me again where I was who else is there, where does he live all the questions a WS will ask. I just gave her short nondiscriptive answers. in way to make her keep wondering ya know.

Well I texted her this morning "hey I was thinkin about going to the comedy club once tonight. I know you have a big day but maybe you would like to go with. Just see how your day goes and think about it. Have a wonderful day!"
she didn't reply right of way but when she did "What would we do with pumkin? And Im not going to be home til late!"
I said "well I'll take care of finding a sitter and we can go to the late show. I think its at 10. just an idea."

I haven't heard anything back from her so I guess we'll see.

I've told my self that if she doesn't want to go don't take it hard. I know Im not her friends and she probably wont want to go out until 230 with me. I'm not getting down on my self about this im just preparing myself for the thoughts that Ill have if she doesnt go. Im preparing myself so I cant stab myself.

I know I should go anyway but I really want to be with her. Maybe if we don't go to the comedy show we can get a couple movies. I just want to spend all my time with her. Thats where my biggest LB was I believe. You see we built a new house a year ago and I did almost all the work on it so you can imagine how much I was gone. She was pregnant when I started the house then she haad the baby about half way through. I stayed home with her for a week after she had the little pumkin. I didn't realize how much it bothered her and now that I've been hit with a 2x4 on the back of the head my eyes are peeled wide open. In my defense I was doing it all for her/us. I was fine where we were at but we both agreed that the oppertunity to build so much equity into a huge investment like this would help put us were we want to be in 10 years. The home of our dreams. I know its not her fault wellnot all of it. Maybe she did tell me your not home much and I wasnt hearing that. But I did hear her say all the time I want that house done! so I was pullin all nighters for her b/c I knew she wanted it to be done so bad. I wish I could've seen the sign then I would've hired someone to do the house. I'm tring to make up for that now by being for there for her now it just feels like Im in a place I shouldn't be. ya now the DJs she makes and then i try to defend myself with Djs right back. Wrong I know Im workin on it.

I told her about counseling last night to. She just said Oh thats a 100 then. hmm

So if she goes or not its up to her. I am going this time. I promise.

You asked me in a post earlier what book am I reading? Im going to pick up the book His Needs/Her Needs this weekend. Im kinda excited about getting it. I've heard alot of good things about it. Thats wierd b/c I hate to read. im a hands on kinda guy. But Ive read more in the last month than I did in all my years of school!

I think talking to my friend last night really helped. He just keep saying WA how long you going to put yourself through this. You don't deserve to be treated like this. I said I know but my marriage doesnt deserve me to just through in the towel yet. I'm working on our marriage right now. I know who she really is and Im going to try to wait for the real her to come back. He just said you have hung on alot longer than I would. I just don't know what to tell ya. I just said I know you don't know what to say and thats fine I just need someone to talk to sometimes. He said Im hear when ever you need me buddy. Its so nice to have a good friend that stands behind you no matter what.

Thanks again LA