What I was more concerned about is the control freak you say you have in you. The anger is a result of that control freak, which contains many hidden beliefs. You say in your previous posts that your wife doesn't feel listened to (her side) and that you've heard this from her many times over the course of your marriage. Now you say, no, everything was happy until her illness. That your temper hasn't been issue except at work.

I need to know which is more accurate, or if I'm just missing your point. I'm confused.

I understand you're questioning whether or not snooping is permissable in marriage...rather, in YOUR marriage. Sounds like your wife is really upset about it. I understand you're attempting to figure out if she is in an affair/affairs or not. That's a tough time. Have you suspected her before of cheating?

"If this were the problem, our outlook for any type of recovery would be very dim."

This is where I see your prejudgment determining your life. There have been cases here where a spouse has had a same sex A and they do recover their marriages. I don't see the odds as being any different. Maybe I'm too optimistic?

"how do I even start to get past it with her?" What does get past it with her mean? Does it mean get her to stop feeling violated, spied on, distrusted? Does it mean getting her to respect that this is what you believe in doing to protect your marriage? Or does it mean, how do I get her to stop being angry at me and forget about it?

LA

LA,

I guess that my temper only shows when I am REALLY stressed out and feeling totally helpless like last friday. It is not a part of everyday life. Does that help? I am a "lead, follow or get out of my way" sort of person. I am somewhat adverse to conflict as I do not enjoy it. I do not typically shy away from someone who disagrees with my logic. This I would normally have persued very hard.

However, I have to get over my logical side if this is to work. We are talking but everytime my spying comes up, she gets so mad she blocks me out. I feel like I had to do this (find out what she was doing) to save my marriage.

As for the dim prospects, my comment was meant that if she truly in her heart had decided that she was homosexual, then I would have walked away. I love her too much to let her lie to herself everyday. I am not mean to her and care about how she feels even if I do not always show it.

I have had issues with the term EA. However, I spoke at length with a counselor today. Just the first interview of course and I have several more to talk to tomorrow. The first one said that I need a professional present in order to deal fully with our problem. Small steps we can and have made on our own. But in order to get past the spying and the affair (yes, this person validated that she did indeed have a internet based EA) we need an impartial third party. As I am not her favorite person right now, anything can inflame the situation. The exact words used was this incident needs to be "reframed" into saving our marriage.


This counselor was also adamant that this visit to her VBLF is dangerous and he reccomends against it. However, there is too little time to do anything about it. I will be looking for "Surviving an Affair" this weekend. I still have a lot of reading to do.


I acknowledge that I have made many mistakes. I also love my wife just about more than anything in the world. As Tom Cruise said "You complete me." Nothing else comes close.

C-

C,

Thank you for anwering my post. I am not attempting to attack you or put you down for who you are and what you believe. I fully realize you love your wife very much. Mistakes are human learning steps.

Again, I'm not concerned about your temper. Your stress management is your own. Some people have said they have a temper...and that means that they shut up for days when angry. I tremble and shake, blather and am pretty incoherent when angry. I don't know about you, just that you said you have a temper and have been working on it.

It is the control freak I was addressing...CF to CF here. No attack there since I was one, right?

"lead, follow or get out of my way" Okay. Good to know. How about not move...stand still...just be? Where does that allowance come in? Does that feel helpless? Inactive? Negative? Obstinate? Lazy?

As a reformed CF, I hated feeling helpless in any given situation. In fact, I hardly could see where I wasn't at fault, didn't own the blame and twice the credit. CF is a demanding master. Active, full of constant effort and plotting. Being wasn't an option. Human doing was the only way.

How human is that? When I found out that I was living in a delusion, I stopped. Al-Anon did it. I was so relieved that I wasn't alone, wasn't defective or broken or all-powerful (which meant all responsible to me). My anger levels dropped along with a lot of pain because I finally figured out where my human responsibility ended and others' began. What a load off. Though I do miss all that credit for saving other people's worlds. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And the false strength and stamina I required to do all that. That was a bummer to lose...the delusion. As a CF, disrespectful judgments abounded. Guess that's what I'm picking up on in all of your posts. Don't get me wrong here, please...these DJs sound noble, saintly and the way we're taught to be good. They are difficult to pick up.

"I love her too much to let her lie to herself everyday."
DJ
"but I am not sure that she is being honest with herself."
DJ
"I care about who she is. Is she a good person?"
DJ
"I have gotten the W to agree to read"
DJ
"I seem to have misread her again."
DJ
"If not for that, I would chalk it up to double speak!"

(Please note that getting this lesson while your wife may be in the fog is the most difficult time to understand it...but it is when I figured out, so there may be medicinal reasons I can't figure out that makes it the right time)

"It the W sees this book, she will freak."
DJ
"I am chalking this on up to the odd crap that is going on."
(Just thought of your chalk lines of a two human forms on the pavement)


Owning your DJ here: "I have always made the mistake of trying to convince everyone to move over to my beliefs."

Examining your DJ: "Okay, what does it mean to understand her side if you do not agree with it?"

DJs involve manipulation and disrespect, frustration, anger over inappropriate boundaries, resentments and wishful thinking.

Results from DJing..."Are you staying up to make me go to bed?" Partners feel so manipulated that they believe you have the power to make them go to bed. Make them feel stuff, do stuff, be stuff they are not. Remember, CF is a two-edged sword...takes the credit and all the blame.

"We are talking but everytime my spying comes up, she gets so mad she blocks me out." Partners of CFs have messed up boundaries because CFs make theirs so big, they crowd out the partner's. There is no protection from judgment, no acceptance...which can be confused with privacy. Partners feel unsafe, more than appropriately vulnerable, attacked, invaded and engulfed by CFs. They take stands erratically, alternating between passive and aggressive. Their defense mechanisms are always on high.

"her extreme attitude towards my spying on her." A DJ, but can you see anything here?

I feel now I've overstepped my bounds. Like I'm pressuring you in your vulnerable time. There are differences between us that are immense...you sound sure of who you are, comfortable that until six months ago, you had a happy marriage, no major problems. That wasn't me. I have been insecure, inferior, a bully, a martyr and a victim. I didn't have the perspective or the tools to see myself as just me, capable of being whole.

I do know that what I couldn't see (the LBs) were killing me and my relationships. They affected my work, children, husband, friends...everyone I came into contact with. And I couldn't tell you why...

LA

Okay, I give. What is a DJ? I am having a real hard time understanding without this and it is not in the abbreviations???????????????

Okay, I see it now. Gotta re-read all this again

DJ = Disrespectful Judgement

You got it. Sorry. That should have occurred to me. I typed out the words, but didn't show you the abbreviation.

Whaddaya want from lengthy, hard-to-read amateurs?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA,

I do not feel angry all the time. I guess you would have to say that I am struggling a bit trying to comprehend all that you have written. Is it possible that some of the quotes are taken out of context? They do sound pretty bad when shown in isolation. I do agree with some of what you have written. It is something that I will need to think about over the next few days. But I really do not feel the way you described.

I do not like to stand around while something needs to be done. We need to recreate a new relationship. LET'S GET BUSY.....Well, this really is a problem and I am struggling with it. I am constantly apologizing to her for pushing her (as she has repeatedly said).


"I love her too much to let her lie to herself everyday."
This was made in context that "if she decided that she was gay....." This is a basic tenant that honesty and openness is required. If this cannot be maintained, then I think that the relationship is doomed to fail. This, of course, if just my opinion and may not be worth much.

"but I am not sure that she is being honest with herself."
This is a question not a real statement. I say that I am not sure so I could easily be mistaken. I do not see how a question to myself could be a judgement. I am looking for answers here, not making judgements.


"I care about who she is. Is she a good person?"
DJ - Absolutely, I agree....


"I have gotten the W to agree to read"
DJ? Any chance that maybe this is just poor wordsmithing? I talked to her in detail about the wonderful amount of good common sense HNHN made about communication. I then asked her to read it with me as a relationship building session. I am not sure that I see how this is disrespectful unless it looks like I forced a decision on her. I guess a more appropriate statement would be "she agreed to read this with me".


"I seem to have misread her again."
This is really more questioning myself on my communication skills than a judgement. In short, I attempted to talk to her as a typical woman would like to be talked to. My wife reminded me that she has never been like this (the typical woman). She is right....


"If not for that, I would chalk it up to double speak!"
DJ - Yes, I agree.....


"It the W sees this book, she will freak."
DJ - Yes, I agree.... I assumed that she will not accept what has happened. I am afraid that if I use the term Emotional Affair, that she will not accept it. It is interesting to show how wrong I was. She accepts this as it is (per her words tonight...this could be a really good night!!!!).


"I am chalking this on up to the odd crap that is going on.
DJ - No, just callous and something an jacka$$ would say - I am sorry that I ever wrote it.

In short, I am re-evaluating every feeling that I have. Nothing is sacred at this point. However, W said that "you are trying to change the person that you are overnight". I think that change is needed, but I will need to be more flexible, with no absolutes on anything.

I do not normally have feelings of inferiority, but I do this week. It is a humbling experience during this time. I also am not a bully. I seek to honestly convince someone that I am right (not just shove it down their throats as a bully would do). I do feel that I am almost whole, but I
do lack the tools for relationships. I am still reading, learning and doing my best to listen.

C-

Taken out of context is usually the only way to see where your judgment is controlling of someone else.

" let her lie to herself everyday" You don't let someone lie, truly. They do it. They choose. You can either accept or reject a lie, but not let. Therein is the disrespect. If you believe that you give permission so that she has no choice but to lie everyday (about what isn't the point) then you negate her power, which is hers.

Wordsmithing is important when you get down to what you truly believe...I believed I "could get" my H to love me, be honest, meet my needs, etc. I couldn't get my H to read a book because it was HIS CHOICE. Manipulation negates choice. You have the choice and I have the choice. No one get us, make us, do stuff without our choices. There are exceptions...lack of information. You can withhold information from another person so that limits their choice. Other than that, respect that humans choose. Now, because I took it out of context, you saw that and said a better wording would have been "She agreed to read..." Yes, that's true. I'm not harping on you, nitpicking for fun (honestly), I'm giving you the code words to listen for, both from you and others.

Not attacking, discovering, I promise:

""I seem to have misread her again."
This is really more questioning myself on my communication skills than a judgement. In short, I attempted to talk to her as a typical woman would like to be talked to. My wife reminded me that she has never been like this (the typical woman). She is right...."

You can listen and accept what another person says, see what they do and ask. To read, interpret, guess, assume, look for a reaction, feel the lay of the land...expect a reaction because you talked to her like a typical woman (HUGE DJ there)...well, can you see you are looking for best possible outcomes and not her truth? Respect is knowing she is a seperate individual, her beliefs do not threaten your own, her feelings are not your responsibility...and she is longing to be accepted and respected. She feels judged a lot. You have absolutely no intent of doing this--not at all! You have been diligent to be the best person you could possibly be. Honestly, I know this. Do you think I knew I was a monster of disrespect? Heck no!

You may have a belief that disrespect is for the unaware and the cavalier who don't give a darn. Well-intentioned disrespect feels the same to the disrespected...does that make since?

For your wife:

""you are trying to change the person that you are overnight." In my effort to show that language matters and that it comes more easily as you change your beliefs, see that she is telling you what you're trying to do. Her saying, "I believe you are trying to change the person that you are overnight," is her belief. Telling you what you're doing isn't. Still an opinion. And I have to say, a soft, loving, caring DJ if I ever heard one. She recognizes your efforts and feels you'll be frustrated (Let's get busy with this rebuilding!) and sees how diligent you are in fixing things. Compassion, empathy...still a DJ (you can slap me around on screen, if you like, I know this is very personal, sensitive stuff).

"with no absolutes on anything." You are a fast learner. When you feel an absolute, it is your child within fighting fear...notice and understand that fear.

"I do not normally have feelings of inferiority, but I do this week." Do you normally have feelings of superiority? Just that you're earnest, you get it, you strive to improve where you see others not caring enough? Both are symptoms of insecurity, inadequacy...until you realize equality is not a concept but a fact, and you feel comfortable with it, then DJs are your way of trying to balance imbalance.

I was a bully. I sought to passionately, earnestly and honestly convince someone I'm right...and that's disrespectful. You can believe you're right and equally, another person can believe they are right, and you can respect each other's differences. That's how I was a bully. I have no right to convince, connive, cajole, manipulate, entreat, persuade or demand agreement. I have opinions and my personal reality. You have yours. Truth doesn't lay somewhere in the middle...most of the time, you have your truth and I have mine. They made coincide or clash. My belief in what disrespect is may not be yours. I only got to mine after a lot of soul searching, monitoring feelings and understanding that feeling safe from my own fear pushed me to be right and agreed with.

What feeling does agreement give you? Acceptance. Funniest part of it, when you demonstrate respect, you are easily accepted because there is no arm-bending to agree; just respect and acceptance for differences.

Ever hear "Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?"

There's truth in there. Partners accept each other, part and parcel for who they are; it is their actions where decisions come into play.

I don't think "chalking this on up to the odd crap that is going on" is what a jacka$$ would say--but a man in pain whose very judgments come back to hurt him, inside and out.

Standards are what you decide on for your code--what you won't do to others. Boundaries are what you won't let others do to you...they have to be the same...and the kicker is...they also have to be what you won't do to yourself. That third part is really important.

When you're respectful, a lot of the feelings of self-respect (which comes from acting from your code consistently) is also from knowing you aren't disrespectfully judging yourself...no put downs, shoulds, musts, have to's or oughts. You being you, by your code, is enough. Then you'll feel love pour in because your love is pouring out in healthy ways.

That's what I'm going for here...knowing that without a single action, act of kindness, effort to help, or intent to make happy, you are and you are whole.

Worthy and valued...without a word or deed. You are.

LA

LA,

I will keep this short and to the point. I am not sure if I agree with you on everything. There are definitely points that need to be worked on. I am currently talking with several LPCs that are on my plan.

I think that the W sees me as you say above. I saw one comment where she said some of her turnoffs were power trips and sarcasm. I am not sure that this is as deep as you might think but there is definitely work to be done and I will speak with our LPC (as soon as I can get one) about this.

This does present a problem as it relates to talking to my W about the spying. She does not equate this being equally dishonest to her EA. This is all I can see now and a lot more needs to be done.


Thanks,
C-

Well,

This has been a horrible week. W went to her sisters as planned. Turns out, she has not been watching her blood sugar or taking her insulin like she should. So, Sat night, she got really sick and Sunday morning, she was taken to the ER by her sister. 36 minutes later, I was on a plane to get to her.

This is our second time around with DKA (loosely known as a diabetic coma). This time, under the circumstances, it has been really hard. She was still in ICU on Valentines Day (this means no flowers allowed). I spent maybe 4 hours over two days trying to create a sugar free, flowerless valentine that looked good. I surprised even myself. A small teddy bear, a good V-day balloon, some valentine confetti and a few other touches looked really nice. She was up and awake when I gave it to her. The "Thanks" I got totally blew me away. I can get a "Thanks" for picking up dinner on my way home. This has just added to the devastation that I feel.


I am getting to the end of my rope. I am depressed more than anything. If I try to to do anything to pull myself up and out, then I am accused again of pushing. We talked in depth since the valentines mess. She gave me the equal to "I love you but I am not In Love with you...it happens" speech. Well, I do not agree that it just happens. She finally read chapter 1 of HNHN last night. I explained my feelings about the book especially the part about "it" not just happening. She sounds very positive so I guess we will keep going. Due to the events, we still have not been able to find a counselor. This could still be weeks away. I am very concerned as I finally got my emotional needs survey done. As for me, my top three needs are not being met at all. I feel like her balance in my LB may not survive this. As I look to fill hers, I am getting absolutely nothing in return. What good is it to fight for something only to find out in the end that I do not want it anymore?


Today I have to move. We had to delay the movers and everything for 2 days while she was in the hospital.


Sorry to keep babbling like this but I am so screwed up right now I do not know what to do. My worst nightmare is to be placed in a completely helpless situation and I feel like that is where I am. My worst nightmare.......

Hang in there. This stuff takes time. Whether you realize it or not, you are making deposits in her love bank. She will remember them. Someone here said it is like planting seeds in a garden. You have to water them, weed the garden, and nothing seems to happen for awhile.

Are you proud of your Valentine's present? Your actions in regards to her DKA? Handling all the stress that is happening all at once in your life?

I am. I'm blown away.

You're living your worst expectation. Emphasis on living it. Great to see your update.

LA

believer,

I have kept your post in my mind a lot over the past week. W and I are talking now but it is typically not happy talks. I mentioned to her that 15 hours a week of undivided attention may be needed to help fix our problems. Of course, with the moving and the hospital, this has been all but impossible. To make matters worse, she is really happy with her new friend. Our last three talks have been about how she spends more time with this friend than she does with me. I have tried to explain that sitting around watching TV does not count. Just in the past 3 days, she has had 1+ hour phone calls each day with her friend and this does not count the text messaging/emails/IM going on all the time.

She did admit to spending more time with her friend than us (DS included!) and says that she will work on us more. She feels that we have made some progress because we can sit down and have a conversation without any yelling or screaming <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. Maybe the seeds are trying to grow. However, these are all relationship discussions (no fun at all...). This is not what I wanted to do; it just ends up that way. I try to find things to talk about but it seems that the whole direction of these discussions is left up to me. She does not initiate any of the conversation. I told her this last night at about 1:30 in the morning. I also told her how I felt about her new friend. I am very jealous of the time that they spend having their "girl talks." I do not begrudge her having a friend at all , just the huge amount of time she spend with her is hampering our progress. Currently, I cannot compete with this. She was sick on Sunday so we accomplished very little. Then, her friend called and you would have thought that a different, happy person emerged.

To be honest, my depression is getting worse. I cannot focus on anything. The only thing that I can do is work in the new house. I can lose myself in manual labor. When I am not doing this, things get pretty bad. My thoughts have even drifted to the suicidal for short periods <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. This is not me and I am not really sure that I know who me is anymore.

I am not giving up; I am just having a real hard time adjusting. LA, thank you for your encouragement also. W promised me that I could grill our dinner tonight and that she would sit on the back porch with me so we could really talk tonight. We have lived in a small apartment for a while and we both missed my grill. Maybe things will be better tonight.


I am babbling again...let me get to my question of the day: What the heck to we try and talk about? We have been together so long, that I just do not know what to do, especially when I am expected to drive the conversation! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

C-

If you are getting depressed, might be time to get some anti-D's. I got them from my family doctor, took them for 9 months, and am fine without them now.

Let's see, things to talk about...... I'm a talker and can talk and talk about anything. But seeing as how you have been married so long, you might have to think up new things.

It helps if you had some new things you do together, a new project - like a garden..... You could go to a play or movie. I don't know.... what does she like to talk about?

With my W, this is a really hard question. Simply ask her what she is interested in and the standard answer is "I don't know...." said in a very odd tone of voice. It is really strange sometimes. I do know that she likes food (for a diabetic, this is a terrible thing!) and she likes to travel. We try and talk about trips to take but we end up talking about stuff that we could never afford (this just creates more stress).

There is a local wine shop that has wine tastings several times each month. I am getting their schedule today. This is something that we can both have fun doing, but I am not sure how much conversation can be generated from it. I am hopeful that we can meet some new local friends here. I do believe that she is very interested in this.

It is very clear to me that I have taken our relationship for granted. Otherwise, what we are doing now would be simple. In fact, I have to think that our relationship has never been as strong as I thought it was.

I really hope that things are going to change. I am a planner by nature. I am seeking to become more spontaneous (my wife is a self professed now person). She has also been very dependant on me for many things (which I would lying if I said that I did not like it). She is now seeking to become more independent. She is very interested in returning to college and getting a degree in psychology. I am all for this and will figure out how to pay for it (she thinks that we cannot handle this right now). I have gone so far as to request her old college transcripts for her. At this point, this is a far as thing has gone. I cannot do this for her.

Things to talk about

• Food: New gourmet items that will fit with her diet?
  
• School?: I thing that she does not know enough about the program yet to carry a conversation
  
• Travel: See comments above
  
• Work: This is something that she has NEVER talked about at home. The simple “how was your day” is met with a shrug or a very simple “Okay” type answer.
  
• Sports: She used to very interested in sports. Now, I am not so sure. I cannot seem to get her feelings on this.

I am open to any suggestions that anyone may have. When we met in college, this was never a problem as something was always going on. After 19 years, this is really like starting over.

Things are getting better. I can gasp her hand and get little positive squeezes in return. We are talking, just not about happy things. I am doing what I can to make things easier for her. At this point, I do not know what else to do.

C-

In "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" there are exercises that we found fun to do. The first is a Love Map one with 20 questions. I'm not suggesting you guys have to sit down and do them, but if you read some of them, there are things to talk about.

Naming your spouse's two closest friends, favorite musical group, composer or instrumental, what she was wearing when you first met, her hobbies, where she was born, what stresses she is facing right now...and the list goes on and on. What do you fear most, secret ambitions, what was favorite vacation, what ways do we soothe ourselves...

Works you into a place of knowing each other now and not what you have believed all these years, or not considered. We felt fresh again, rather new, after doing this exercise.

Seeing new stuff...even on a drive...helped us, also, to remember we really like experiencing "new" together, like believer said.

I feel for the "I don't know" response you get, C. If I hadn't switched from questions to "I" statements a majority of the time, I would have been done in, I think.

LA

Well,

Last night was pretty odd. W came home very depressed and refused to talk about it at first. She kept checking her IM and email every 20 minutes like she was looking for something. It is pretty easy to surmize that she was looking for a friend to talk to and she would not confide in me.

She said that she thought that it was a positive night but I do not feel the same way. We do seem to getting a bit closer. I sent her a special text message ealier in the day.

Wanting u is easy
Missing u is hard
Wishing u w/me when we r apart
I've got the padlock
U have the key to my heart

This is a modified version of something I found online but it really represents me. She said that it made her feel good. I do now want to do too much right now. I try something every 2-3 days.

I really hope that she will open up soon. I have proposed that we play a relationship game that I am calling 20 Questions. Simply sit and answer truthfully each others questions without emotions. I am relating this to a high colonic where all the $hit is purged from our relationship. This is the part I need to establish the honesty and openess that I need. She actually said okay. I guess we will see later if Okay means "yes" or Okay means "I am saying this so you will leave me alone."

C-

**Please note that I changed my screen name as I thought that it was time to be more a real person that some stranger**

Well,

Okay clearly means "I am saying to so you will leave me alone." Go figure.

Thoughout this mess, I have looked deeply into what happened trying to determine what went wrong. W is no help at all. I am doing the small things and trying to make her happy. As I see it, we are still in major trouble. I cannot replace her friends in our old town for her. In fact, it troubles me that she had such "good" friends that will not even call her back. This sounds a heck of a lot more like "fair weather" friends to me.

She hates this boring town. Well, we do not make enough to let her take trips to see her friends (6 hours away). It would costs a lot less if see went alone but I think, given the circumstances, that this is a VERY bad idea.

Everything that has happened seems to stem from her deep unhappiness in this town. We made the decision to move here using POJA (just did not know what to call it at that time). She is now very unhappy with that decision. Just so you know, I have found the job of a lifetime! A company that cares about who you are as a person and how you are doing more than profits (and they are VERY profitable!). If not for our sitch, this would be the company I could retire with. Alas, I guess that is not to be.

This is where things get sticky. I am sure that moving would help the situation. However, I am in a extremely narrow field of engineering. To take 10+ years experience and move to a different field would typically require a massive cut in pay. We are already stretched to the limit due to all our medical bills. All this being said, I am going to start looking for a new job although it pains me greatly (but my marriage is more important). I am not sure that this will really solve the problem as W wants to move back to the old town. The job there was almost like one of a kind. The company has no equal in the area and returning is really out of the question.

I guess that I am venting today. W will not open up. I do not know what she feels. She will barely talk to me (we do not seem to have the same idea of what talking is!). Any conversation we do have is squarely on my shoulders to keep it moving (I AM REALLY TRYING TOO!)

My investigation of her secret activities was very eye opening. It was clear that our relationship was missing something. She started looking for friends online and found a few. Then, her unhappiness led to her love for me being greatly reduced. She even posed a question to one of her message boards about asking me for an open marriage. This was "just in case someone comes along, I do not want to feel guilty" were the exact words. This thread went so far along as to set up a lie to me about her wanting to be with women to "make it easier on me" as it was something that "I cannot compete with." I really need her to open up to me and talk to me about this and she refuses.

I guess that I am really messed up this morning. Sorry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

C-

Okay,

Now things seem to betting worse. W spends almost all her time talking to her new friend, IM, email checking or pursing a couple of her favorite messages boards. I am beginning to think that the EA we referred to earlier is with the Internet itself. She checks her email and IM as soon as she wakes up (before the coffee is made!). I walked in the house tonight and she wanted my laptop before I could even get in the door good. She will check her email and IM at least 15 times tonight. If I go to bed before her (which lately has been very common) she will stay on the computer for hours. Then, she gets only 4 hours of sleep a night. Right now, she is taking a nap. I am beginning to think that she is priming herself for a long night of chatting! I cannot compete with this anymore. I think that I am getting to the end of my rope. She will do nothing to work on our relationship at all.

We are supposed to go out tonight. Right now, I could really care less as she does not seem to think that it is important.

This is going to destroy our marriage. I cannot stop it. I think that this is obcessive behavior. Am I missing something?

C-

Wow, new look, G2KT...(I don't pun well with anon's...Good Got! Now that can work.)

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Good self talk in it.

You're here and yes, it is on your broad, capable shoulders. Times in marriage call for shifting that weight back and forth, but a lot of time, it is shared.

Did you go out tonight? As much time away from her alone and climbing the walls would be good. How about a job for her? That gets her out and meeting new people (vulnerable state of mind) but yes, you're looking, IMO. at depression. Messed up sleeing times, intimacy avoidance...lots of stuff that you aren't creating or have control over.

Seeing a doctor would be helpful. Not adding to her state by demonstrating anything that would indicate she's not working on the relationship...because "You're not doing enough" is easily heard as "You're not enough."

Depression is about her rejecting herself...true self...and putting another image onto the internet is a shortcut, not a cure. Same with her new friend.

Plan A...take her out often...let your creative side flow with imagination. Instead of talking, you can go quiet, seeing new stuff together. Lots of walks (physical exercise, even bits of it, aids depression), care and presence are key.

"This is going to destroy our marriage." You do not have to go quietly into that good night. Your choice. Any third person will destroy a marriage...if one does not fight for it.

Your pain, frustration, feelings of rejection and blame are real and felt. I would challenge you on not what you're saying to your W, but to yourself. You do care about going out because you do love your W. Saying you don't to yourself is trying to fend off feeling rejection, discarded, last place in her life. She isn't herself right now. I guarantee that what she is experiencing is foreign to her as it is to you. I don't believe this is about you, but her. Feels very much your fault--the job, new town, her unhappiness.

Understood. Plan A isn't to make her happy, but to be the best person you can be for yourself and for her. Meeting needs, learning about your own and how marriage can work.

Tell us what you need for you while time is working for you.

LA