Morning, G2,

Sounds like you got hurt this morning. A surprising hurt in a new way.

Something you didn't expect.

And so your expectations brought you down, drained your lovebank, and you don't feel secure...measuring wife's commitment, progress at reconnection.

When you Plan A...you do realize you don't need your spouse. You get to the part where love is a choice. You aren't together from need, but choice (both ways).

You've got two different people with two very different perspectives. And you're one of them.

Yup, you aren't enjoying your wife right now. Got that.

You can't say why on a public website. Somehow your expectations not being met by her have you really angry.

I saw your other post to Eagle. You said you made a mistake last night. Today you feel distanced from her, from what she might have said or done this morning...how much anger is turned inward...can that be the implosion?

I looked for someone new posting but didn't find her.

You know, a person can fall down with exhaustion in trying to keep their guard up. JMO.

LA

My post to Eagle are for the night of the 28th, not last night. Last night was not so bad, just nothing positive. This AM, I started to put little things together that make me doubt her.

The whole Plan A thing when there really is no OP is confusing and dang frustrating. I really am lost now. I have never felt this way ever. I do believe had her new friend been a man or the W a lesbian/bi-sexual, a true PA would be in full swing. Dealing with this wierd sitch is killing me.

C-

I have asked her not to post for now. Given the reponses that my new post generated, I am not sure that it is a good idea anymore. She needs friends. Her new friend's husband has exposed her affair. Most of the people she talks to regularly are in bad marriages. The support that she is getting is not healthy for our relationship IMHO. Just do not know what to do now.

C-

G2,

I'm so confused here.

You were disheartened when Mel advised you not to have your wife post here?

Okay.

You are saying what your wife needs...is this what she has stated in your talks recently? I know new town, new events, difficulty adjusting, job downgrade...but talking to her friend's H behind her back? Was she trying to tell him to stop having an A?

Bad marriages aren't contaminating. You fear others' influence because you doubt you are the primary influence any more? Weren't before?

I shouldn't have slept since I last posted. Yeah, that's the ticket.

LA

G2,

Hang in there you are just entering the dark before the dawn. My FWW has come up with some pretty weird and hurtful things. Please read Arks post BS be still, it has helped me. You are not alone here, I have had plenty of thoughts about being able to move on without FWW, h3ll the kids and I have been doing just that for almost 4 years. I and we have chosen to have FWW in our lives and to love her with everything we have. Keep in mind that "This too shall pass!" Also read last couple of posts from Owl on my thread.

Take care

Eagle

LA,

My last post seems to be lost in cyber space so I will try it again.

It seems that my confusion has entered you mind due to some strange and alien method. I will attempt to fix my confusion (& hopefully yours as well).

Yes, Mel’s post has discouraged me greatly. I think that some good can be had if the participants follow the rules. I had hoped to get everything together so others can have a good place to go if they have similar thoughts. Maybe, maybe not…

My W is lurking already. She seems to be ready to talk/post on her own. I am (on purpose) not trying to push her. I want this to be for her, not me. We had lunch today and I kept this same stance. I really want her to be true to her feelings and herself. She verified that she tought things were a whole lot better. I really do not think so. There are still so many secrets that I cringe sometimes. I am worried that if she does posts, that the responses may be too much for her to handle. She does not think that she has done anything wrong (once again, there is no OP). I will let her decide this. BTW, if she post, she will probably use the user name tidegirlntx. Notice I left myself wiggle room just in case.

Clarification: My W was IM’ing with someone masquerading as her friend. It was her friend’s husband exposing his W’s affair. I watched this happen. My W started forwarding all the emails that she had receive from her friend. My alarm bells in my head went off. W just kept all this to herself (I could sort of see what she was doing). She never told me anything until after it was over. Then, I told her that I really already knew who she was talking with. She was amazed as I showed her my post about it to prove the point.

Yes, I am worried that talking with a dozen or so women who are in bad marriages will contaminate her. Sorry, but that is how I feel and feelings at not always logical (really hard for me to say because logic is how I make my living!) I am very worried that I am so far down on her priority list right now. We have a small running joke (that is not very funny) that I rate behind a fast food dinner (W loves food!). 15 hours?? Heck, we will be lucky to get 5 this week.

Yes, I am confused, angry, embarrassed, mad, sickened and frustrated. I agree that she is having some type of an EA or at least a MLC. But with no OP, this sure is dang hard. I wonder would it not be easier to have a flesh & blood target. No 2x4s I would use a 6x6 of hard maple…just joking. I just still do not trust her and she has done nothing so far to earn my trust back. The months and months of hiding lies is almost more than I can handle. I do feel certain that if her new friend was male or that the W turned out to be a lesbian, that a PA would be in full bloom right now.

Thanks for talking with me, I sure do need it right now.

C-

Eagle, I saw both of these posts earlier. I spend way too much time here as it is. I just do not trust myself. Does that sound weird? This situation is so far outside of my realm of experience that I just do not know what to do. This is not me. For my entire life up to this point, I known exactly what I am doing and exactly where I am going. Boy, things can change...

Thanks for the support.
C-

G2KT,

Yup I know exactly how you feel. I have found that this problem is all consuming. It eats up my whole being. It's like getting swallowed by Moby [censored], and the only thing you can do is try to find a way out alive.

I could have written your statement above. I feel like I'm foundering and the shoals are getting ever closer, soon I will have my hull ripped completely open and sink into the dark waters of despair.

I was an Air Traffic Controller in the AF for 6 years until my hearing went south, worked at Edwards AFB, high stress very busy and unique mission. Loved it, very confident, always in control, always knew what to do. The veritable go to guy when the sky was dark with A/C. When no one else could handle it I would step in and go to town. With this I am powerless and frustrated.

I recognize your wife's emotional state as not a completely solid one at this time from the words you've quoted. I have my old issue back with your first post on this page. I am highlighting it again because I believe it takes practice to get this down into your core beliefs...this enmeshment and DJing causes you more pain, more mess inside and within your communication and marriage. Your intent matters. Even silence is communication. Why you do what you do matters. You're a human being and you ripple through us all.

...you're gonna hit me upside my confused brain...but...

"I want this to be for her, not me." Such disrespect. It is her choice to lurk, post or do backward cartwheels with any motivation of her choice...for her or for you, or because she thinks the stars will speak more loudly if she does. Not you, C. You can say you'd like, but it sounds to me like it is something you push. "Don't do this for me" is still a DJ...a command...
"I am (on purpose) not trying to push her."

You're not pushing her because that would violate your standards, wouldn't it? You do not believe you can control others, and do not allow yourself to manipulate others or yourself, is that correct? You are respecting her choices at all times. That doesn't mean approve or deny how you feel. It means seperate acknowledgement, to your code.

What am I missing?

"I really want her to be true to her feelings and herself."

This is not a want, need or desire, C. This is a how you would prefer the world to work...that people be true to themselves and others. You can be that way for you and state that as your wish. Is it a dealbreaker if she isn't that way, or that way for right now or a year?

"She verified that she tought things were a whole lot better. I really do not think so." What if she said, "I feel better, a whole lot better and our marriage looks better to me now." Would you judge that or accept that's her personal truth?

Yours is that you're still hurting, uncertain, distrusting and maybe feeling some back dues to all your changes? I dunno. You want to make MB safe for her, protected in case she gets bashed, mauled or disrespected and that finishes off your marriage? Where's her choice? Her brilliance, resilience...she can choose what words matter, whose posts to listen to or what parts, and what doesn't. She is a completely whole, valuable human being, also. Fully capable. She may hurt, be angry or perplexed...those are hers, not yours to tamper, protect or enforce. You are. She is...you guys are coming to another new place, an emotional one, like the physical move, and this place is uncharted and scary. Either you two learn and get through together or you choose not to do that.

Time to breathe (me)...logical living man...being logical about emotions and intangibles is a difficult proposition for anyone...all have logical parts and esoteric parts...sometimes you gotta accept without proof...because that is respect. "I hear how you feel and what you believe...It feels so different from my experience that I'm fascinated and so grateful. It feels like my mind's door opened wider." No judgment. You are accepting, not approving or disapproving.


Thanks for the clarification...your wife gave her (ex)friend's hubby emails to aid him in understanding or exposure? So she is against affairs? Or just this friend?

You are keenly tuned into the destructive effects of lies and lack of openness and honesty. That's excellent. Stop allowing yourself to wish for a target. Your relief would be brief. The hardcore betrayal would make it a blink in the following emotional hailstorm. I get it. Nobody likes to battle invisible beings...Yet, you're invisible to me, right? And here I am, battling again...to do what you haven't done before emotionally, to focus on what you haven't studied like a degree, well, that's reasonable, but scary. Uncharted? Well...I'm trying to get you there with pointing out the DJs...not that they are written accidentally...they are how you think and feel. You may not want to change them. I'll respect that.

I'm beginning to believe that what you and your wife are experiencing is not a battle to be fought, but something to be understood...and accepted.

I really do.

You can't POJA with someone who lies by omission. You can't POJA when you don't respect your partner's motives or actions. And without POJA, you can't get to 15 hours a week, connect with or feel safe with your wife.

Tough spot (O'Brother Where Art Thou?)...

That could feel confusing, infuriating, embarrassing, maddening, sickening and frustrating. Where's your part?

You make a boundary...and you enforce it. No jokes about her putting you as a low priority. That's a DJ from her to you. Jokes..."Remember how close we came to losing our marriage?" "Like car keys, hon! I remember."

Now, shared beliefs that are essential...

That the marriage involves three parties...

You, her and "The Marriage." We are to honor one another (stick to our codes) and when we do not feel our partner deserves us, when we feel resentment or anger, we hold to honoring "The Marriage" for that time. We don't do that which will harm this third party. We have nothing to resent in the marriage....just our partner.

Then we work through those issues, POJA and get back to directly honoring each other, which is considering, accepting, appreciating the other...and being HONEST, radically honest, about our thoughts and feelings, and being safe for this information, at all times.

You have to agree to stop the blame game, the Ima Right syndrome and listen to each other intently.

For you two specifically, it might take you both agreeing to notice and mention what you see the other doing that honors the marriage. "I heard that repair attempt when we were discussing stuff last night, and I'm sorry I didn't tell you I appreciate your humor when my emotions flood me."

Tiny bits are huge; what looks huge might be based in tiny bits.

As you told Eagle. you're used to doing battle, fixing, solving, redesigning and reprioritizing? Well, guess what...you're expecting your wife to be you--and if she was, well, you wouldn't have loved her in the first place. She would have annoyed the heckfire out of you!!!

You guys don't have to believe the same things...only the important ones.

Celebrate her different view...the more you accept her, the better you can change your life.

LA

This is too much to absorb at one time. I need to read this one again tonight. But, I think that I agree in general.



I think that you may have misread this. My W did not do this to mess up her friend. She thought she wasy talking to her friend (but it was her husband!). They are still friends. W does not approve of snooping in any way shape or form for any reason (as these are her words). She still has major issues with my snooping.

I am going to try and read this novel one more time....
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
C-

I got that she didn't know it wasn't her friend...but why would she forward emails the friend had sent to her about the affair? I lost that one.

She can have major issues with you snooping...they're her issues. You don't, right? That's what matters, I think, to me.

Ack. He said novel.

::::

going off to feel ashamed of myself...

LA

Her husband was on IM chatting with the W. W thought it was her friend telling her that she had lost all her emails and wanted the W's copies.

Well, I cannot snoop anymore as I promised not to. I have probably put myself in a bind as I still do not trust her. I did get a glimpse of a IM screen where she said something pretty bad about me. I guess that I will just have to get over it. There is nothing that I can do about.

Tonight was better as was lunch. We are making small steps and I am working on LB. I got through a couple of pages today. But, I finished SAA this afternoon and the final few chapters were quite interesting.

The more I read, the more I understand what you are trying to say. I have even discussed your posts with her and she has noticed changes already.

Novel, well no. Maybe novel like is more accurate... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
C-

I guess that I cannot leave things alone. I took the family out to eat on Sat and then to a movie. W had claimed that I did not notice the little steps she was trying to make. I did notice the little things that she does that literally make me feel less than human.

We walked into the restaurant, and she walked as far away from me as possible. Once in the restaurant while waiting for a table, she goes out of her way to make sure that DS is between us. As we walk towards the theaters, I notice the huge distance (physically) between us. It does not matter whether it is forward of me, behind me, to the side. When we went into the theater, DS ran ahead and sat down. She had no choice and simply took the next seat. I sat down beside her and watched her move towards DS as far as she could get (away from me). She stayed this way the whole movie. After the movie we went for a walk in the mall. Same thing.

Well, I kept my mouth shut the whole time. I was hurting but I was trying to overcome it. I had a sinus problem and took a prescription decongestant. I forgot that I had taken when W asked me to open a bottle of wine. Two glasses later, I was messed up. The interaction of the drug and alcohol was terrible. Hurting all day + being wasted = crappy night. I held nothing back. I asked her about the IM session that I had seen where one of her friends asked if I was still there and her reply was “unfortunately.” Of course, she does not address the comment, only that I “spied” on her. It was something I noticed in passing. I asked her why her body language is so different from what she tells me. The little hand squeezes that I had gotten when I reached out to her had gotten shorter and shorter and began to look like an irritation. This makes me feel like I disgust her. I got angry and things dissolved from there. One moment, I am telling her that I am leaving to move in with my parents (abandoning EVERYTHING) and the next I am asking what we have to do to get past this (crying the whole @#$% time.)

In short, I almost left last night. I may have permanently damaged what is left of our R last night. I spend way too much time here at MB as I have no one else to talk to. I have become a very sad person. I do not like myself at all anymore.

I am making a Dr.s appointment tomorrow to see if I can get some ADs. This needs to be my last post for a while as I have become obsessed with MB. Last night I asked God to take me home permanently. I am really messed up and I do not know what to do. Sorry to bother you all with this but I am truly lost.

C-

Continuation after W woke up this am.

I am in real trouble. She has told me that nothing in this town is fun. The only thing that we can do that she like is go out to eat (that is starting to costs a fortune). If I cannot do fun things with her, then I have no chance of rebuilding our M. She has stated fully that she has no romantic love for me.

She will not post here and we cannot afford counseling (medical plan does not cover it). I feel like all hope is lost. W wants to just take things one day at a time. Well, I cannot do anything about a new job until next year but I cannot go on living like this. It is clear to me, that with no improvements, I will be filing for divorce within a month. She won't read any of the books that I have bought. She won't post here. All she wants to do is talk to her friend and cruise the net.

I really hate to sound desperate but that is exactly where I am now.

C-

((((((G2)))))))))

You keep saying you messed up. You aren't seeing where your expectations are doing the stabbing. I understand. You're in a most unique situation.

You didn't deal your marriage a blow. There are two of you in this together. Counseling looks like what you've got to do, asap.

For both, or if she won't go, just you.

Break the computer. You are feeling desperate for acceptance and admiration from her. Give that to yourself, right now, that you're human, wholly loved and cherished by God and your DS.

An I statement to use, "I felt stabbed when you typed "unfortunately" because you feel that way. I believe it is your honesty that is at issue here. I'm attempting to be as honest with my thoughts and feelings as possible."

Why not check out legal seperation in your state and find out if you can get custody? Not divorce, but protection. You almost left. You're not the one to leave--your son needs you.

She's unhappy. She has to make herself happy. You can't do that and it isn't your job--its hers.

Praying for you and the strength and answers you already have...

LA

Thanks, LA...We live in Texas so no dice on the legal separation bit.

I am checking into counseling with my HR Benefits people tomorrow.

Thanks and God Bless
C-

G2KT,

Man I've been there and still am somewhat. I know just how you feel dude. Get the counseling, my company paid for 3 free, then my insurance kicked in at 8 + my co-pay. You can't afford not to. ADs may or may not work for you, I was taking effexor, it made me easier to anger and made me feel like my emotions were in control. I quit taking them and am better at controling my anger, W probably wouldn't tell you that but that's what I feel.

Hang in there keep posting! Put a CMOS password on the PC and no one gets in without it. Only way to change it if you forget it is to take the battery out reset some jumpers and reboot.

Let me know if you need help.

Boy, the rest of Sunday was NOTHING like the beginning of the day. It started by me apologizing for being drunk and spouting off a lot of crap (which was very sincere). I tried to hug her and was really suprized when she actually participated and hugged back. I took her to breakfast and we had a quite time with some conversation. Then we went shopping. It was not a chatterbox day, but it was good.

I grilled steaks for dinner (we just moved out of an apartment and my grill had been in storage for two years!). She seemed to really enjoy that. We watched her favorite show Sunday night and even had a few laughs during it (I am getting her to laugh every once in a while). She cuddled me as we went to sleep (major LB deposits there!).

As we move forward, I am still trying to figure things out. Previously, I posted that I was worried that she would not work on the relationship until we moved. That was a major miscommunication.

For the future, we have to start meeting each others needs. How can I do this if she will not read the books? She has only read about 1 1/2 chapters of HNHN. My W is not typical. I believe that her needs will be vastly different from the typical wife.

She saw something in LB that she wanted to read about but never did anything about it. How can I encourage her to read this (instead of cruising the net) each night? I am not asking for her to read for hours each night. Just 15-20 minutes after dinner or before bed. Is this too much to ask if it will save our relationship? I don't want to DJ her but I want to encourage her to to this.

Thanks for listening again. At least here I can talk about things. You see, my W has always been my best friend. I do not have anyone else to talk to like this. I really appreciate everyone here.

C-

G2KT,

Last night was terrible, I asked where are we? Are we making progress? All went to H after that. She won't tell me anything, I'm constantly in hte dark. Very depressed today. Hope it gets better.

Glad your evening went well. Maybe mine will get better today.

Well, last night was not really negative but was not good. I started by taking the W to dinner. She was in another world and got upset when I tried to find out what was wrong. She keeps blaming it on PSMing.

Last night, she came home, got on the laptop WHILE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE WATCHING A MOVIE. Finally, I told her the movie sucked and I went to play games with DS. The movie was not great but it wasn't as bad as I said. She thinks that she can sit with the computer in her lap and "watch" TV with us (She ended up staying on it until she went to bed at well past 1AM = 5 hours?).

Even DS notices that mommy has sort of checked out. We feel pretty darn unimportant in this house. Message boards (not like this one) and the friends she has found there are literally her life now. I cannot seem to get through to her.

So today, I have a new boundary (please correct me if this is wrong but I have to make a stand somewhere). If she gets on the computer for more than 5 minutes, I am going to leave the room and doing something else like games with DS. This is really rude on her part but she will not stop. I cannot break the computer as 1) there are two and 2) one belongs to the company.

She is still hiding something. During my investigating, I changed her IM settings so that it records each and every chat session and saves them with a time and date stamp. I do not read these anymore but I do look from time to time to see if the archives still exists. Two days ago, I saw her looking at the archives. Since then, all the archives are gone. She is going to them each night and manualy erasing them. Just more secrets? How do I address this without LBs and creating more problems that I solve. She is still being very secretive about her chatting and her emails. She told me that the business of the person that she is chatting with is none of my business. But what about her side of the chat?

Just lost and can't find my way.

C-