I knew it was Chris!!! I backspaced over to the C over and over again....you're so not a G2 guy. Not that I know who would be.

:::dancing while you're crying::: I'm happy with myself. It really doesn't take much.

Oh, the joy that flows up in me to hear you break your self image and know you're truth...You're HUMAN. Utterly, magnificently, unrelentingly human. What a marvel you are, to be this man, drunk and crying. I thought Michaelangelo's David would look perfect if he were drunk, and crying.

Your very weakness will be your salvation, Chris. Guaranteed. You own that you believed you were in control of your marriage. A slight self-comforting fantasy. Now you have reality and that you're only one third of it...there's your part, her part and The Marriage part.

You own you can be lost without being bad. You just are. Hey, you're lost! You couldn't have imagined being right where you are this minute, no matter how much planning, calculation and pro/con lists you made!

That's marvelous, Chris. Think about it...when you're where you haven't been, that is God giving you the ground for a new way to live. You're free. It's like a vacation and you DON'T have to come back to the old grind.

Your spirit is sparkling, Chris. Know this. It has longed, craved and desired to just be...exist without the burden of image, have-tos and shoulds you covered it over in. Break the geek image with it...your beauty runs deeper, flies higher than you have ever allowed yourself to imagine.

But you let your wife. She knows it. You have been as handsome as a movie star, as funny as a comic, and as precious as blood to her. She can see you that way again.

This is the time for you to get to see yourself without all the layers of judgments, harsh and untrue, you pile on yourself by comparing and tearing.

Admit that you find safety and pleasure in the way she viewed you...and that part of the betrayal is what is the MOST pain for you. She loves you. Then she says she doesn't...part of that incredible pain is you hear her saying you are a geek, undesirable, not precious or handsome or funny. Like erasing you.

Okay, am I really projecting my own experience or what? I felt erased...rubbed out of existence. Found out that was a place I'd been many times before growing up.

How 'bout you?

When you only give yourself the truth run through another person, calling it love, then you are at the mercy of their truth.

You know this...need to know it in your heart, gut and spirit. Heck, you need to know it in your left knee!

You are a brilliant example of why God made humans at all...not a sad excuse for a man. The way you define a man, yourself and who God is...well, that is sad. And untrue. No wonder you can't trust...you don't trust yourself. You keep defining yourself with sharp edges, narrow confines and no room to breathe...

Breathe, Chris. Even drunk...oxygenate.

I'm a geek, too. I love my geekness. I'm beautiful, funny and am me, through and through. Couldn't get there until after I was erased by my best friend, my ocean, my H.

I'd rather be here, on this side of my slicing, dicing judgment than where I was before, any day.

Don't throw up on the keyboard, 'k? Spit-takes are okay. Just keep a towel handy to wipe the monitor.

You're not alone. You're sharing your journey..which can halve your pain and double your joy. You're doing that. Your choice.

LA

I refuse to throw up... I have not been that drunk in 12 years. Me being drunk makes you happy...maybe YOU need a counselor! Beware, I think my wife is about to read all this....

Chris

PS My wife read this tonight and seemed to have wanted to post on my log-in right here. She decided not to at the last minute but I still have hope.

Chris

Hello, Wife of Chris...

I don't drink. I just write like I do.

You didn't chicken out...you chose not to post. Chris is still learning. My 2x4's hitting his backside are slowly working their way inward.

I'm wondering what you're thinking...your DH is posting and women are posting back to him. I'm wondering what you thought of his pain, feeling absolutely lost, and how you feel.

How much both of you have gotten away from that raw intimacy, of being safe with one another, best friends, each other's expression of living love.

I welcome you to post. No judgment. No defining. No more me guessing for him to understand. That's my DJ to you. You weren't here. I was desperate.

Respectfully yours,

LA

LA,

I will show her this in a few minutes. I do want you to understand that she has voiced her pain for the pain that she is causing me. This is one of the reasons she is still here. BTW, I have edited out the huge DJ. This really made her mad. My only excuse is alcohol...

Chris

I got a counselor today and she seems to be very nice. Waiting to see if WW wants to go or not. Our company has a little publized Employee Assistance Program that pays for a few sessions. We will see how these go.

Chris

She just told me that she is not ready to post here yet. I am trying to be an open book for her so I will hide nothing from her. I still have hope....

Chris

Good to know, Chris...

Okay...got some questions for you. "Lesbian EA 6 months" in your sigline...

What would that be? Having your ENs met by a member of the same sex, including SF in fantasy?

Because friendships meet a lot of our ENs, also. Difficult line to discern. How much of the fantasy part matters. As I said, severe rejection felt from others, total unacceptance, can lead to a desire for total acceptance, mostly from self...more emotional validation and respect, maybe?

Intimacy, being an open book of fears, reasonable and unreasonable, beliefs...childish or adult...is the way I became intimate with my H again. Removing judgment was key.

So I see that as a possible barrier for you.

As far as SF...breaking down its components into what it represents was important, also.

Just thoughts...would like yours.

LA

Well,

It is funny that you would ask these questions. These are the very questions that I had just asked her. She was very uncomfortable at my prying.

The rough story is that she has had a few fantasy episodes about one person that she is no longer in contact with. She is correcting me as I type.

I needed to know how deep this has been considered. This is very hard to me to talk about.

Chris

DJ to self..."prying."

You are her husband. There isn't prying, snooping or privacy in marriage. Only when there is something to hide.

Okay, rant over.

Few...how often...what are episodes (no DJ, just don't know)...how long...

What do the fantasies represent? Mine were acceptance, admiration, significance, power (adoration) and attention (big on the attention).

You're talking about it. Know that you're that strong, facing your fears and not acting from them. You've had practice, Chris. How 'bout a trade off here? You share one fear, she shares one fear?

LA

Well, even that may be too much now. I really freaked her out with my questions. You see, I was interested to know if this was a fad or an experiment. I believe that I have learned my answer. That answer must be "I love my beautiful lesbian wife." I hope that I can stay with her until the end but I have no guarantees. We are going to couseling next week. We will have to see what the future holds.

Chris

How did you freak her out with your questions? She shared herself with you. She might not have believed you ever wanted to know her, all of her...you weren't interested, she wasn't safe...you wouldn't love her if you really knew her.

Freaked?

You're a powerful H, Chris.

Sorry...you choose your beliefs. You know that. Be careful what you choose.

LA

I freaked her out because she has never been this open before. She thinks that there is a lot that I do not need to know. I now see this as a very large stumbling block to repairing our relationship.

BTW, I started to work in her car yesterday while she was getting ready for her trip. I ran her car into the back of another truck about two houses down. Air bags, burned face, police, ambulance and all was very rough. She took this VERY hard by her actions. It seems that she tought that I did this on purpose to get attention....

So, I ended up coming with her on this trip. What a big mistake that was. Every time I get the least little bit emotional she gets really mad and says something like "this is my weekend to get away from all this heavy $hit...I can't take this anymore." It seems odd to me that she cannot take the heavy stuff that she is the source of. I am really having a hard time with this.

LA, I met some old friends last night. Chris and Nancy are getting married in a couple of months. I met them for bowling and pool while W took DS to met W's friend and children. When Nancy saw me, I got the deepest most affectionate hug I have seen in years. I wanted to cry so hard and so deep.

So, here I am, in the way. The getaway weekend for my W is becoming a nightmare.

C-

bump for cinderella

Chris, I just wanted to tell you I am reading here. I think this weekend get away was a bad idea. This is with one of her lesbian friends, correct? So if this was a male EA she would not have dragged you along is that correct?

Tell me what plan you are in? Plan A? What about the 180 I posted to you? You mentioned MC. Is she willing to go?

I saw you mention polyamory. Please, Chris don't let desperation guide you through this painful time.

FF,

The getaway is purely platonic and is mostly family with her sister and nephews. She is going out with her friend tonight. I still monitor all emails, IM chats between the two. This friend has a serious relationship with another woman out of town. In fact, I met W's friend's husband online in a support group the other day. He and I are talking alot.

I have been in Plan A since Feb 5. However, I would consider my true D-Day to be March 22 when W said "I think I am a lesbian." W has stated that everything done from Feb 5 until this point was not seen as positive. The FOG blocked it all out. She and I have discussed this in detail on March 22. I am attempting to get the W to talk but she does not want to deal with the "heavy @hit" (her words) all the time. I understand this but I also cannot turn my emotions off and on at her will. Bad moments often occur at bad times and I can do nothing about it.

I have not seen the 180 info yet, but I will tonight as I am babysitting 4 teenagers! Thank you for posting. BTW, I met another lesbians husband (his name is Chris too) through MMTL Group(Men Married to Lesbians). I spent two hours IMing him this morning. It REALLY did a lot of good. His experiences and input have helped a lot. I do not feel quite as emotional after that session.

I want to save my marriage as I love my wife very much. Any options other than a monogumous relationship will be a stretch for me. Even if it were to happen, it would simply be the true beginning of the end.

FF, my life has taken a drastic turn. If I remain immovable, then the force of this will crush me into a fine dust. I am learning to be flexiable like a reed in the wind. A house will not stand up to a hurricane but the reed will as it gives based on the circumstances. Had you talked with me as little as 6 months ago, all this would be totally different.

Thanks for your input. Everyone here at MB is needed to help save my marriage. I hope that W embraces the MB concepts to rebuild it. However, the information from other sources are helping me cope. Does this make sense?

BTW, MC starts this Wed.

Chris

If there is one thing that women do not like, it is desparate, clingy, weak men. Fear is one thing. But, you are close to becoming the type of man she will not be likely to see as desirable. It appears that you need a pro-marriage counselor. And that you each need individual counseling.

If you are both broken, you can not form a healthy couple.

We are working on that...I am much better tonight, you have no idea. A great hug from my wife this morning and some new friends to talk to.

Thanks Cinderella

Chris

Also, you might try different name for your thread. You can change it by editing your first post. sometimes something specific to what you need helps.

ok---the question i was gonna ask has to do with how you treated her during the marriage. now dont get me wrong...but sometimes in women where severe emotional neglect comes into the picture....this has happened. you do however state she has stated it isnt a fad....are you sure she has always felt this way? and why?

if it is a true sexual preference i dont kow what to say....i dont believe sexual preferences can just change at will. i believe we are all born to be wired a certain way...i do believe sometimes people experiment but a true sexual preference is just in there. KWIM?

i agree, plan a, be a support for her as long as she is being open and exploring this with you and as long as she is trying. it may not save your marriage, however it will definately save years of pain with your son's MOM. whom she will always be even if you are divorced.