SC - I don't intend to get into such a discussion. I don't have to point out that this thing appears to have been swept under the rug as group-think conflict avoidance, regardless of what type of organization it is.

I didn't look at this so much as a "church" thing as much as an organization thing. Instead of the minister's wife, it just as easily could have been the local favorite politician's wife and the party faithful didn't want to see their man forced out of office by the rabid "other" party.

Very sad. Nothing I can say can make it look any worse for the church and what it stands for.

WAT

Endures, for the life of me I can't figure out why in the world that you want to know what illicit lovers do when they are together. DO YOU WANT THE GRAPHIC DETAILS?

Watch about any chick flick and you will find the answer!

I still can't help believe that maybe there is more to this.
Like perhaps it is YOU that is having the affair with Luke. I know you say differently but there is this nagging feeling in my mind that won't go away.

Anyone else having any doubts about this story and the one
about telling the preacher. Is this Luke the same guy? Why would she tell the preacher and not Luke's wife? CONFUSED HERE.

Well, Celt, I with her post today I suspected that she could be a troll or involved an the A herself. I would rather that not be the case and since then think that maybe she's on the up and up.

I am just very disappointed that everyone in the 'know' has been keeping Janet in the dark. I feel sorry for her and doubt she is the demon/or worthy for being treated thus as Endure seems to have implied. It sounds too much like an affair partners opinion of the OP's spouse.

Hi WAT--
I don't know if anyone else has gone to Luke's wife. She's not an easy person to talk to at all. She is not friendly with people, has always (as long as I have known her) been a bit of a recluse. Luke's sister, who does not have a good relationship with her, may have finally spoken to her because she's quite disgusted with her brother. But I have not said anything to her. I've thought of anonymously mailing some info to her, but have not done so yet.
LJ

Celt--
I'm sorry you have the impression that I'm the one having the affair. That is not the case here. Yes, Luke is the same person as in the church post. I chose to start a new post because I wanted to understand the mechanics of an affair, thinking it may help me understand Luke's situation. I would have no problem spilling my guts here if I was the 'other woman' because I see this is a safe haven. You certainly can think whatever you wish, but I am speaking truthfully. The only things not authentic in my posts are the names because if anyone from my area was to read this mess, they'd find themselves. I'm just trying to understand a very complex and heartbreaking situation here. Thanks for your honest questions.
LJ

Endures,
You have knowledge of an A. You have read a little on what it does to a family, marriage, and lives. Please tell the Betrayed spouses what is going on. Period. No excuses as to why not to, like not likeable, not friendly, etc. Just tell, put it in the open so that the ones being betrayed and the waywards can move on. Do it anon. or not. But be specific and be true. This site has numerous members, like me a BS that found out too far into the A and many knew about it, except ME! I wish someone had a heart and had told me earlier! Please be a kind person and expose the A to the light of day. That is the only way for people to heal.
Thank you
JE

Hi JE--
Thanks for the encouragement. You are right, and I know that this needs to be purged. I'm sorry if I seem heartless toward Janet; I really do feel badly for her and would not want to be in her shoes. I can't imagine how terrible it must feel to learn that everyone knew but you. I need to drop off a pie dish to them tomorrow. While Luke at the farm, I will ask if we can talk for bit. Perhaps her off-putting demeanor is more about lack of self-confidence. She is very difficult to read, very unapproachable, and that is what makes me uncomfortable. Please advise me as to how to do this! Should I tell her that I have something to tell her that is hard to say? How should I start this conversation? Do you think it's okay to ask that she not disclose that it was me who delivered the bombshell? I appreciate any advice!
Thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> [color:"pink"] [/color]
LJ

Hi endures4ever,

I've been following this thread for awhile now but haven't officially said "hello!" yet.

(Slightly off-topic - the description of Janet reminds me of when someone noted that while a typical outsider response to a situation like this is "of course he's having an affair - she's crazy!" should really be reversed to say "of course she's crazy - he's having an affair!" Even though Janet's "in the dark," she's probably like any other pre-D-day BS who *knows* there's something and is desperately trying to figure out what's wrong with her...)

In terms of advice for tomorrow, if it were me I'd do just as you note - say that you have something that is difficult to say and tell her that you have reason to believe that her husband is having an affair. Tell her what you know for certain and then tell her that you are available if she wants to ask you any questions. It would be good if you could send her here.

I'm wondering if she might be angry with you - after all, you've been complicit in keeping the secret. Just something to be prepared for.

As far as asking her to keep her source secret, I don't know...

Blessings on your conversation tomorrow,

G

Thank you, G!
I will tell her that she can give me a call any hour of the day or night with questions or if she just wants to talk. I'll tell her what I know, not what I've heard.
I think, like most others, I held back because, as much as I know the spouse needs to have this information, I don't want to be the one to deliver such painful news.
I'm sure she must suspect some thing! Perhaps when we talk, she'll give me an indication as to how long she's suspected something.
Thanks!
LJ

endures,

Be her friend. She's going to need one. Even if she gets mad at the news. She's not mad at you, just finally figuring it out that it was true after all.

Be her friend.

S&C

endures,

This one is better.

All the stuff you need to get through the alphabet soup Click here .

S&C

Endures:
(I still wonder why you want to know details of affair meeting places and what CHEATERS do when they are together?
Do you want suggestions of where Luke and Kathy are meeting?) UGH!

Endures, did Luke actually TELL YOU that he was having an affair with Kathy or did you HEAR IT (gossip) from a mutual high school friend that he was meeting secretly with Kathy?

Endures:

Endures, I really hate to be a doubter of your word too but your original question is SO like a WW would ask to make sure they're not being used for sex.

I'm an FWW and I would have asked this during the A of ANYONE just to feel better about myself.

It's just such an odd question. I have no idea why anyone NOT personally affected by the A would want to know this. I can understand a BS asking it but not a FRIEND.

Endure,
I can tell you that she will be very angry, sad, hurt and her vent may be at you but not about you.
Take it and say you are sorry.
As for being the bearer of bad news, it is something that must be done, and if Luke doesnt have the ***** to do it, then you must.
I got a call first from OW's friend. I denied it to her. She called back a month later. I told her I needed at least a name to tear apart a 17 year marriage, and got what I asked for. I then had solid proof. I knew but didnt want to know. I did not lash at her, but she was a stranger, on the phone. She called from a payphone. Just ideas for you. Does she know your voice? You may try that, or be a real friend to her and just tell her. IF Luke is angry, think nothing of it. He is in the fog and will lie, cheat, beg, plead, blame, deny, etc. Ignore him. Concentrate on her.
Please tell her about MB and that we are here for her and for you too. I give you kudos right here and now for asking this here. It takes courage to do just that. SO we will still be here for you too.
I wish you luck and peace of mind once this is out in the open. You will sleep better at night. Look deep inside and hold onto that.

Celt,
no I did not "hear" about the affair, nor was it gossip. I could see an attraction building and I knew she often went to the farm to hang out with Luke because she said so. Last spring, at a fundraiser, a church member saw them embracing when her husband (the minister) went out to bring the car around. I saw them together in his van about 2 months later in a neighboring town. They were stopped in traffic and I was behind them. I saw them kiss. Then another church member said she saw them in the same neighboring town but in a different location, parked and kissing. Look, I'm a seminarian, planning to work in the ministry,and I have a relationship with many of the parishioners who don't feel they can talk to the minister about this matter. It's awkward, yes. So I am bringing this stuff here. I am trying to handle this the only way I know. Teach me what I need to know so I can better handle this, as a friend and fellow parishioner. Whatever you draw from my posts is what you decide. I can only tell you what I've told you already.
LJ

What is the "fog" you are talking about? Does the cheating spouse ever come out of it? Will they ever see that the people that disclosed really cared?

Your words Endure:
"It was I who actually was called upon by the pastor when someone anonymously went to him saying I was "gossiping" about his wife.

my behavior toward her (Kathy) has cooled down considerably to the point of near hostility. I can't help it. She disgusts me."

Endures, this does not sound very CHRIST-LIKE to me.

Did you notice this post by KiwiJ? You didn't reply.

"Endures, I really hate to be a doubter of your word too but your original question is SO like a WW would ask to make sure they're not being used for sex.

I'm an FWW and I would have asked this during the A of ANYONE just to feel better about myself.

It's just such an odd question. I have no idea why anyone NOT personally affected by the A would want to know this. I can understand a BS asking it but not a FRIEND."

Celt06 - Okay, so is what you are saying is that SIN does NOT "disgust" you? That Christ's "disgust" with the sinners in the Temple was wrong and that He should NOT have made a whip and cleared the temple of those sinning against God?

THE rule we, as Christians, are given is to "be angry" (righteous anger over sin against God's commands) BUT to not use that righteous anger as an excuse to commit sin in response. (for example, a "revenge affair)





The "Reason" would seem to be that once someone is made aware of an Adulterous situation, they are "Forced" to have to consider all the ramifications of something that before was just a "concept" but is now a "reality."

Certainly many a WS has asked questions posing as a Third Party, but there is no indication of that in this case. The question HAS legitimately been asked and has been answered with what appears to be honesty and candidness.

I would suggest that if anyone has any "lingering doubts" that they leave it in God's hands. As we all know, the truth does have a tendency to "come out" in time. Until then, let's proceed with trying to offer assistance and guidance for an admittedly difficult situation.

God bless.

Not as long as they remain a true WS. In that case, time is on your (the BS) side because the WS is a facade at best. Can't keep up the charade forever. Well, some do but they are never happy. Always going from one chaotic drama to the next.

The best help you can be is to finish your plan A, if she is still a WS, go to plan B. Keep your distance and be safe.

Her demise will then be at her own doing and even though she wants to blame you, she can't..... 4 u r in plan B.

Listen, I used to work for a WS. He is nuts. Still he. 4 1/2 months after I left his company, 2 more quit. That office only had 4 employees. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Ok, according to his x-clients who left at year end..... he is still blaming me for his troubles. Let's see, his troubles primarily started when he began his A. That started before I got there and continues to this day. My fault?!!? Nope.

Best thing I did was to leave the company. Now as for my H, when he turned into a WS and after I got over the shock of it all, I went to plan B. My plan A was short. I still carry plan B in my back pocket. The WS is gone.....H is back but should that WS show his face, that plan B comes out real quick.

L.

Orchid, I know this entire story is confusing.
You wrote: "The best help you can be is to finish your plan A, if she is still a WS, go to plan B. Keep your distance and be safe."

However, Endures is a woman and she is referring to a male friend that is having an affair. (He didn't tell her about it, she found it out from another friend.) So no PLAN A for Endures.

ForeverHers: If your rule is to SNUB everyone that disgusts you because of their sin then there would be NO ONE left to smile at. Because we ALL sin, whether by acts of commission or acts of omission. (Things we should do that we don't do.)

Another thought. How can Endures KNOW that this is Luke's first affair since he has never admitted to her that he is having an affair or even talked with her about his feelings for Kathy? (hearsay only)

Again, I am confused. I find Endure's story interesting and wonder what will enfold in this drama as new details are revealed. (Endures, I have nothing against you, just trying to UNDERSTAND it all.) Are you telling Janet today about Luke and Kathy's 'affair'? Since you and Luke are close, could your husband talk to him and suggest HE (Luke) tell his wife before YOU do? That would be much better.