Either that, or "inquiring minds" can just run their cursor over the text to highlight it, and it will become visible.

Just like in this case: => [color:"white"]God bless! [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, WAT and everyone.
I know it sounds crude, but I think Luke's dopamine level is probably not as high as his level of testosterone. I think that he's ga-ga over the fact that there is a woman who would have sex with him. Not that he's ugly by any means (there are a few women in the church who have buzzed around him during coffee hour), but he's always been very shy, not at all assertive. She came onto him like gang busters. So he won't do anything to jeopardise this affair for anything. He's stuck on her like a fly to fly paper! If anyone was to end it, it would have been her. I'm still baffled over what she saw in him! She's very sophisticated, holds 2 degrees, and has been around! My husband says, "Maybe we can't see what she sees in him!" Good Lord! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I called Janet today around 11 a.m. and she sounded very calm. She said she told Luke what she'd found out. He was kind of indignant, asking her who told her. I nearly dropped the phone when she said, "That's MY secret." She wouldn't tell him!! YESSS!! She said she'd give him a divorce if that's what he wanted. He said that it might be the best thing. Okay, hammer time! Wait 'til I see him! I asked if she was okay, if she needed some company later, and she said no, but thanks. She didn't know what she was going to do because her parents live quite a distance away and she has no relatives in the area to stay with. Plus she didn't want to take Will out of school. She may take him with her during Feb vacation and stay with her folks. Oh, she also told him that a lot of people knew about the affair! She said that it was getting around town! According to her, "he looked surprised! Duh! What a boob!

I'll continue to keep you guys updated. Man, I still don't understand what the allure is! What is keeping this affair going?! I figured after a few months, Kathy would see how far out of his league she is and move on. (she says her husband is "boring" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! Luke is no bon vivante! Oh, I'm just rambling on. I'll pop on later to catch anyone's comments or advice. Thanks so much!
LJ

I am proud of you endures, and thank you
JE

How could you possibly KNOW that they are having sex?

celt,

Me thinks you need to really read about affairs here. You don't have to have sex for it to be an affair. All it really takes is attraction between two people kept a secret from their spouses.

Endures, you did good. Janet knows that she isn't alone in all of this and that gives her some strength to do what she needs to do.

I would consider the possiblity of informing John and letting him know that Janet is now aware of the A. Maybe even ask him what he intends to do now, given the fact that a few others around town are aware of it too. That might just jolt him into taking a step. If he isn't interested in fixing his M, he maybe interested in saving his job (not that he would still be qualified to do his job).

Anyway, just a thought.

Bless you and keep warm.

S&C

Thanks, we are truly trying, at least I know I am and I also see some change in him. He knew I have gone through alot in my life, my first husband passed away in 99, broke my leg in 01, was messed up by a doctor. I met my husband now, and he promised me he would never hurt me in any way, yeah right. I'm doing what is best for my children and MYSELF. If he wants to keep us, he has to fight for us and show me he means everything he says to me for now on. Again thanks for the support, it has helped me so much.

Mebe - uh huh. Spoken like a true unbeliever. The difference that "separates" Christianity from ALL other religions is the person of Jesus Christ. But I don't expect you to understand that, nor do I have the time or inclination to get into a lengthy discussion on that right now.

So just a couple of brief comments will have to suffice for the time being.

Sorry to get a bit offtopic, but this line of thinking can be a bit dangerous.

Yep, I gotta admit it, there have been "tons" of Christians running around cutting off the heads of those who will not "convert" to Christianity and have as a basic tenet of their religion to "kill all the infidels!" Yep, Christianity is NUTS to have as it's foundational principles things like "love the Lord thy God with all thine heart" AND "love thy neighbor as thyself." "On these two things hang ALL the Law and the Prophets (of which Mohammend was NOT a prophet of God .... uh oh, that opinion just garnered me the "Hit List" of radical Islamists).


I think that the problem is that you can't prove that there is a "God's way" anymore than a radical Islamic terrorist can prove that there's an
"Allah's way." Justification of actions based on "God's way" is very dangerous because there is no external validation of God's way.

You see, Mebe, the Christian religion embraces "Christ-likeness;" as in "I came to serve, not to be served," "Greater love hath no man than he lay down his life for his friend." "Forgive AS God has forgiven YOU."


I think that the problem is that you can't prove that there is a "God's way" anymore than a radical Islamic terrorist can prove that there's an "Allah's way."

Yes I can. But let me ask YOU "what constitutes 'proof' to you?" The "proof" of Christianity IS Jesus Christ, NOT some man or some man's ideas. IF Jesus Christ is NOT who he said he was, then the Christian faith is just as false as any other religion in the world and a "mere construct" of human mind.


Justification of actions based on "God's way" is very dangerous because there is no external validation of God's way.

This is where you are incorrect,Mebe. There IS an "external validation of God's way," and that "validation" IS Jesus Christ, his life, his death, and his resurrection.


There's no way for you to prove your dead Christian friend is in heaven and a dead Islamic suicide bomber is not. Maybe you are right. Maybe they are right. Neither of you can prove it.

You are quite right that I cannot "prove" it in the sense of the "scientific method anymore than an atheist could prove all existance ends at death. By the same token, we can't prove that "love" exists, yet most would consider it foolish to deny that love DOES exist.

However, if we are talking about "evidence" that supports a conclusion, then we again have Jesus Christ, who was resurrected from the dead (not a common "everyday" occurence even in today's scientific world). Not only was He resurrected, he appeared to MANY people after his resurrection.

So the "Bottom line," again, is that Christians put their faith and belief in Jesus Christ as the "proven" "firstfruit." His word is truth and his "claims" were "backed up" by the miracles that were NOT performed in "secret," but that were quite public.


Marriages and fidelity have value outside of God.

Okay. Do you expect an "argument" here? Marriage was originated, established, and instituted BY God. BELIEF in God is NOT necessary to BE married. God established marriage between ONE man and ONE woman, for life....PERIOD.

The ROLES of husbands and wives are also established by God, but He does NOT require that they be performed. He allows us "free will" in marriage as in all things. The "establishment" of the rules is the "law," if you will, and humans are free to "break the law" if they so choose. However, that does NOT mean that humans are "free from the consequences" of breaking the "law." We CAN "choose poorly" in many areas, and marriage and the roles in marriage are included.

The question really is NOT that marriage has "value outside of God." The question is WHAT value and WHAT value system? It can be "godly" and it can be "ungodly" and it can be many things "in between." WHAT 'value system' and who determines the 'value' is the underlying question, because God established the institution of marriage to FULFILL Man. But Man IS free to "make up his/her own value system" if they choose to reject the one God put in place.

Whether or not any other "value system" is a "good idea" is open to debate, I would think.

God bless.

ahhhhh....I got it! Celt06, you are just like the folks in Louisiana who saw the hurricane but didn't believe it would lead to devastation.

"Where's there's smoke, there's fire" is another phrase that comes to mind.

Regardless, read up on affairs, both Emotional and Physical, before trying to pull a "Clinton" and argue "it depends upon what the meaning of 'is' is."

That's because YOU are not in the "fog." Please read all you can on this site and get the book Torn Asunder by Dave Carder in addition to Surviving An Affair, & His Needs/Her Needs both by Dr. Harley.

Please direct Janet to this site if she would like to get support from others who have "been where she finds herself."

Also, the Pastor needs to be informed, too, now. This is going to accelerate quickly as the fantasy begins to show cracks....and the ending of secrecy is the first, and most significant, of the cracks. Reality will begin to seep through as surely as water seeping through a cracked dam WILL eventually cause the dam (fantasy) to collapse.

God bless.

Endures posts are sounding more and more like GOSSIP to me.
Re-read them. Like how could 'intelligent Kathy be attracted to plain ole country boy Luke and so on'. Soap Opera talk. What does that have to do with anything whatsover?

I didn't know Christians or seminary students studying to be a Chaplan would drink or get drunk!

As a non drinking Christian man, that is just my opinion.

Celt,
Uhmmm. . .the kiss I witnessed was no "friendship" kiss, trust me! It was too drawn out to be a 'have a nice day' smooch!

Are you going to challenge everything I write here or what? I consider myself intelligent enough to know the difference between a kiss that has passion and one that doesn't. And my reasoning is that if the affair has been going on for some time, and they kiss passionately while in his van, you can bet your bippy they're not playing Tiddly-Winks when they're alone!
LJ

celt....
I agree that her comments come off very soap-operish.....but I think part of the reason could be that she has no stake in this at all. We are use to people who post that are directly involved. I have seen many posts by BW that express how the OW is not at all WH's type and is such and such and how could he be with her, etc....but these posts are also filled with a lot of pain! The BW is trying to understand the situation, and what the OW is like and how he could be with her is part of that....

This woman here is not in pain. She is not dealing with this directly, nor does it sound like this is something she has dealt with herself in her own M. She may very well be a troll or just a gossiper, but she could also be just a woman who is amazed at the fog these 2 are in.......

Daisy

Celt,
The problem with e-mail is that we cannot hear a tone of voice. When I posted last night, I was stressed out!!! So I had some wine as I sat here at the pc. My 'getting loaded' comment was more in jest than anything! I see absolutely nothing wrong with relaxing with some wine (or whatever someone's preference is) when one has had a hard day. I know many other Christians who imbibe as well. If you don't drink, that is good for you. But you should have nothing to say about those who do.

Please don't criticize what I share here. It is very unfair. When I was comparing Kathy & Luke, I was referring to the differences in their personality types. Why WOULD someone such as Kathy be interested in someone such as Luke? It's not soap opera talk at all. You insult my perspective on this issue, and my perspective comes from what I know and observe. What right do you have to insult and criticize that?
LJ

Celt,


That depends on the type of kiss and the intentions behind them.


No but you did say;


This has already been addressed in the other thread. She reported what she saw to Janet. This stuff has been going on for almost a year. The question is do you think Luke would have done any of this in his W's or the Pastor's presence? Chances are they would not. So if there is attraction and they are keeping anything a secret from their spouses, then it qualifies as an A.


As a pastor's W Kathy needs to prevent even the appearance of anything improper. What are they doing in another town together and kissing in a car? It probably wasn't a hello or goodbye kiss do you think?


Based on what was witnessed by Endures it is very reasonable to assume there is an improper relationship going on.


Already been established. Acts were witnessed by more than one party.


Gossip is when someone tells someone else not involved with the issue about what the party of the first part is doing. This directly involves Janet. She is stoping the gossip that has been taking place.


So don't pay any attention to it. There is a lot of information that is given on these forums that really doesn't have anything to do about anything.

The questions were asked to separate what was witnessed from what was second hand info and Endures was told to relate only what she saw and tell what she had heard. Personally, I think she did a pretty good job, given the circumstances she faced.

Endures, you keep posting and keep us informed.

Bless you.

S&C

Endevers,

I personally like a little German white wine or Corona with a lime. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

S&C <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Steadfast, you make some valid points.

However, what I am trying to say is that it is
presumptuous of Endures to tell us that Luke and
the preacher's wife are having sex.
Endures wrote:
"I think that he's ga-ga over the fact that
there is a woman who would have sex with him."

All she witnessed was a kiss in a van while behind
them at a stop light. (I think that is where she saw it.)

Endures, I think you might have missed an earler post
I wrote. It is up a ways. Did you read White Daisy's message just above one of your posts?

Celt,

How many men do you know that don't think or hope an intimate relationship with a woman won't end up in sex?

What do you think? A man and a woman are driving in some town (not even in the town they live in), stop at a stop light and kiss each other intimately; what are the chances of them being more than just friends? Do you think they would do that in the town they live in? I doubt it.

S&C

Yep. I'm sure. Luke's response to his wife was a "Classic Response." He's caught and he thinks he can proceed to a divorce and live "happily ever after" with Kathy. The poor boy has no clue yet.

Keep making those excuses though, it's interesting reading, while we wait for the day when the "lightbulb" goes on in YOUR mind.

God bless.

Yes, Celt, on more than one occasion I "got loaded." Not proud of it, but not a fatal sin either. It was succumbing to my human emotions and "treating the pain" in a "humanistic way."

Christians ARE human, with all the same propensities to sin as their unsaved bretheren. The emotional load of infidelity, and even of watching the pain (and overly empathizing with that pain) of others we care for who ARE being hurt by infidelilty, IS enough to trigger emotional responses in any of us to "escape the pain," if even for just a little while. It doesn't make it "Right," it makes us human and in NEED of God.

God bless.