Added note-
After I posted last night, WH called back-
WH- " I just wanted to tell you that I am not trying to hurt
you".
ME- "Well, you are hurting me, WH, and hurting any chance
we might have at working things out, having a fresh start
and getting our life and family back".
WH- "Well, I just wanted to tell you that".
ME- "Instead of telling me that, but continuing to hurt me,
I wish you'd do something about it, like end it with OW."
WH- "I'll give you a call tomorrow morning".
ME- "You aren't going to call tonight, from her house ?"
WH- "I didn't know I was supposed to".
ME- "Just thought you might want to".
WH- "Well, I'll see (getting annoyed) "Bye".

Hung up and just a couple minutes later, another call from
WH-
WH- "I wanted to tell you I'm sorry that I yelled"
ME- "I didn't notice that you did yell.
WH- "What are you doing now ?"
ME- "Just leaving work, getting something to eat, and going
home to rest since I'm not feeling well".
WH- "When are you going to the Dr ?"
ME- "Tomorrow afternoon"
WH- "Well, I hope they get you on the right medicine-
seems like you've been sick a long time".
ME- "Yes, it'd be nice to feel better"
WH- "Well, talk to you later."

Now what was all that about- guilt ??? Just trying to make
sure I'm not TOO mad, in case he needs/wants to be with me
again ?? I did go eat a nice dinner, talked to a girlfriend, and just went home to rest and get ready for bed early.
WH did not call. That definitely leads me to believe he was
not doing what he told me, as if he was really at OW's house alone, he could have and would likely have called.
Thought later that he might have either met OW where she
was at her "out of town" meeting (Denver, about 70 miles
away), or could have spent the night at the new house with
her. (although there is no furniture there ?) Who knows ?
My thought was to go very "180"- be courteous, but show little interest, don't ask any questions, don't try to get
him to talk, stay busy, give short answers, etc. so he
really gets the message that his behavior is NOT okay.

Thanks Lady-
It was very tough to know what to say. I feel like I've
tried everything I can think of, from every "angle", and
none of it gets through the fog, of course. Even though
I know that, it's hard for me to not try to appeal to
logic or reality. Too bad he has no logic or reality !

KaylaAndy-
Thank you- I did take your email and will keep in touch with
you for info about the "anon" recovery and dealing with BPD.
(Have to admit, I'm not sure what "anon" recovery is)
WH has definitely been his own worst enemy for years now and
it has been difficult and sad to see the self destruction.
Was so glad when he finally decided to seek help, got the
diagnosis, got on the right type of meds and started therapy
but it's apparent that it's not going to be a "quick" fix
or process by any means. How much the A has to do with the
BPD, I'm not sure, but if part of BPD is lack of "impulse
control", WH certainly demonstrates that with not only the
A but other issues as well (such as recent DUI, possible
addictions,etc.)

LadyJane- Yes, lots of cake-eating going on with WH (no
wonder he has gained weight lately !) Has amazed me that
WH can be having an A, but still call home and say "what's
for dinner ?", or "can you help with my community service
project ?", or "we'll go shopping for a new phone this
weekend" (like his doing something with me is a consolation
for his night spent at OW's) ! The thinking process needed
to act/justify like that must really be something !

ARK- Thanks for your continued support and suggestions.
Can you explain more about how it might not be good to go
to Plan B at the point when WH moves out, or how to do "B"
sooner with him still in the same house ?
Don't know how the situation with the new house will play
into things. He had always wanted to buy a "fixer upper"
house and renovate it, with the intention of then selling
it and making some profit. He found this house, purchased
it on a "rehab" loan (in his name only), and has been doing
the work on it since summer. Once the A got started, he
started saying he'd keep it instead, and move there himself
when it was done. Then, in the past couple months, while
were in supposed "recovery" we talked about us selling our
current house and both moving there. Now, with the A back
"on", he's back to the idea just him moving there.
With the Rehab loan, he's not had to make but small interest
payments, but will have to convert it to a mortgage before
August (one year term).
As far as the rest of the finances, WH has been good about
paying the bulk of our bills and expenses, even during the
A, while he lived with OW, and while he was renting a room
elsewhere. I work full time and contribute my whole pay
to our expenses and bills, but make considerably less than
he does. He makes good salary and commissions, but is not
"made of money (like OW thinks ! He's run up big credit card bills, has an expensive car payment, two child supports to pay, upcoming legal expenses, fines, etc. on
the DUI, and recurring medical expense for his Dr and
therapist, so is tightly strapped for sure.
I had been making more after 18 years in the same job, but
lost my job about 14 months ago due to change in a govt.
contract. I got a new job just 5 weeks later, but it does
make less pay because it is commission related. I didn't
know exactly what to expect as have never worked commission
sales before, but am finding I am not making enough, just
don't know what else to do. I guess one thing I do need to
do is to start researching some options, getting a new
resume together and putting out some "feelers", because
whether we get back together or not, I need to make more
money~

Slammed

slammed ..

I don't want you to do 180's in a detaching way...
I want you to do 180's in an in your face ACTION way...

I want you to come home from work tonight...
singing a happy tune..
I want to get a shower...
get BEAUTIFUL...and I want you heading out the DOOR!!!!!!!

your mantra...some friends are going clubbing or whatever...and I am going along...tooodddly loooodly dear..peck on the head...and out the door....
hair flippen....and smelling wonderful...

I want you to fill tomorrow afternoon with activities...
and be a little too busy to slow down...

I want you to come home with a handful of real-estate papers...

flyers on apartments...and drop them there and SAY nothing...

oh I was just looking at some things....

I want you to pull up some vacation sites...and leave them out somewhere as well..
OR
right on your computer.....

I want you to ask him questions about some place you once visited...

and had a good time and tell him you were talking to some people about it...
and you may be heading back there....

I want you in his face from the sidelines.....

ACTING...

and for everyone that says it smacks of game playing..I say at this point too bad..

this guys grotesque disrespect as he moved out once already and kept in contact with you daily speaks VOLUMES of his need of you...

YOUR participation speaks volumes of your inability NOT to participate in his game playing....

I am always wary of plan B with a spouse moving out..
they will read it and say....ahhh she's just 'mad" cause I moved out...she doesn't really mean it..

plan b letters that follow an evening of calm, kind, and friviloty have a much much greater impact and seriousness with them.....

seek legal counsel on the issue about the house ...if marital assets are 50/50...suggest he buy you out...hee hee that will shock him eh..

ARK

Slammed I think Kayla was right on here...I pretty sure she was meaning "alanon" help. It's about getting help for you do to the destruction and devastion WH is causing you and what you can do not to enable his addictions (kind of like plan B stuff). Helping him hit bottom so that there is a possiblity of him seeking "real" help for himself. He's not there yet, he's waddling, and cake-eating. His DUI scared him, but not enough!!!

I attend what is called and "Overcomers Outreach" group, for problems dealing with my families addictions. I love it, and look forward to it each week. It has helped me alot!!! The meetings are all held all over the USA. If you would be interested...I'll leave a few links here for you.

http://www.tgsrm.org/GRACE.html

http://www.tgsrm.org/Co-DependencySupport.html

Here are the meeting directory....just click on your state.

http://www.overcomersoutreach.org/page3.html


Slammed, if there is a meeting near you, I would really like to encourage you to go. Please go...It will help you so much!!

Blessings,
Lady

I have to agree with ark^^. It could be called acting, but in actuality those are not bad things to be doing anyway. I have seen time and again people tell BS's to start living for themselves. Most all that do say it helped them tremendously. Check out this thread by believer http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=1#2952797

She was told to start living life regardless of her H's behaviour. Although he didn't come back around until it was too late, believer benefited greatly from the advice given to her to live for herself.

It sucks that your H is being such a self absorbed A-hole, but don't let it define you. You are a great person who doesn't deserve to have to wait around for him to decide get off the fence. Apply for those new jobs, what could it hurt? You never know, you might just find something even better.

I know that a lot of this can be easier said than done, but try to take it one day at a time, take baby steps if you have to. We know you can do it!

slammed,
Do what ARK says.

This is not a game, but the fact is that YOU are tired and YOUR H does not see that he will loose you!

He needs to get it and what ARK says is one way for him to see it.

GET out! GET dressed tonight, go out, even if you have to sit at Starbucks by yourself, all the way across town!

Let him see you walk out, and do not for one minute get into where you are going and what you are doing. Just be happy and say, I'll am going out with friends, I'll see you toning, there is a pizza in the freazer!

Same tomorrow. Do something anything that you do different. He needs to notice you, he really thinks you will wait forever and he can do whatever he pleases. He needs to see that your life is about you. This is not a gaime because whether he is in your life or not, YOUR life is aobut you!

Please follow ark's advice. GEt him out of the comfort zone......

Good luck <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

And if you go to an Overcomers meeting...and if the H asks "where you are going?", you can say, "oh just somewhere to help me." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lady

hhhmmmmm says the wS...

wonder where slammed is...??


hhhmmmmm

where did she say she was going....??

hhhmmmmmmm

wonder where she went....??


hhhmmmmmmmmmmm

where is she....??

OW who ????
I'm busy right now..
I don't KNOW....WHERE my WIFE is ??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARK

LMAO!

I think you are dead on ARK. HE is in such a comfort zone it is unreal!

Slammed, get him of that "comfort zone"!

Daisy

WOW, you guys are fast ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, ARK, for the ideas on "180's".
I've read the Weiner-Davis books and the thoughts on them,
but it's been hard to think of ways to actually implement
them, so your specific suggestions are great. (I'm writing
them down to remember later). I do find it is tougher than
I'd expect to change my habits and patterns, and go against
my "nature" by doing the opposite. (I am a big "Seinfeld"
fan, so try to remember an episode where one of the regular
characters thought they always did the wrong thing, so had
decided doing the opposite must be right !)
Your thoughts on having things upbeat and positive, THEN
going to the Plan B make sense. Since it sounds like it will
only be another 1-2 weeks until WH plans to move, I think
I can keep Plan A/180 going until then, give it a short
time to settle, and then go to the new Plan.

Lady- Thanks for the details about "Alanon" and the support
groups- I will check on them in my area. My IC and I have
talked alot about the difference between being caring and
supportive, and being "enabling" or "mothering", and it is
a fine line to tread.
It is hard for me not to care what happens to WH, since we've been together a long time, I knew him before the emotional/mental problems crippled him to the extent they have now, and I do feel for the many problems and crisis he
has created for himself, but I also have tried to realize
that he was the only one who could seek help, make changes,
and turn himself around. I've tried to think of this with
a "detach with love" kind of attitude~
If all this hasn't gotten him to "rock bottom", I can't
imagine (and am scared to think) what it might take !

FamilyComesFirst- Thanks for your support and thoughts.
I have read much of Believer's thread, as well as others
who have had to start working on and strengthening themself
as well as reading "Love Must Be Tough", which advocates the
same thing. I feel like I made a lot of progress after WH's
initial move out, subsequent break up and reconciliation w/
OW, and moving to his own place, but have definitely been
dealt a big setback with this recent situation and am really
feeling "knocked down". Hasn't helped that I've been sick
with sinus/respiratory stuff for the past 6 weeks, and that
my FIL has been hospitalized and critical, so my immune
system is really down and my stress really up !

WDaisy- Thanks for your thoughts- I know your WH and mine
have had many similarities so you can well relate.
I definitely do agree that WH feels I am going to "be there"
for him- regardless of what he does, says, how he acts, or
how outrageous it gets. (and some of it already has been
right out of a "soap opera" already).
I think he really does believe he would be able to "win me back" (much like he is trying to do with OW now) even if I'm mad, upset, hurt, etc. because he knows I love him, want our M to work, and have been there for him in the past.
He hasn't often acknowledged this, but I know he is aware
of it as he has mentioned this in his counseling sessions,
and wrote in my anniversary card(just three short weeks ago)
"Thanks for being there for me and believing in our M" .
Too bad he doesn't, huh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Somehow, I really don't think he believes it is going to
work out or go anywhere with OW. He constantly "touts" his
"speel" that he just "wants to be on his own, wants to be
alone, wants to have his own things", "doesn't want to be
married" (which I have always dismissed as "babble" ( since he's never been alone or on his own during it all, he's been with OW), but even if he does really think or believe this is his "issue" and is planning to live alone while he just "sees" OW without committment or obligation, I'm sure this is not her plan-
She has told me "he loves her and is going to marry her",
and I've heard her say to WH "If you love me and want to
be with me/marry me you will do such and such", so seems this is her goal, anyway.
OW and WH seem to have nothing in common, and both have told
me they constantly fought and disagreed with living together. They've broken up and reconciled about half dozen
times. They have both said nasty things about the other.
When not "on" with her, my WH found her behavior (sending me the packet of photos and letters) to be "over the top",
and when I was upset she kept calling our house and leaving
nasty message, he said "consider the source".
Yet he keeps going back with her. I just don't get that and
guess I never will~

I'm surprised that I've heard nothing from WH today.
He originally was to have Part 2 of a hair transplant (long
story) today, but cancelled it Wed. saying he was too busy
which I thought was odd. Wonder if it had anything to do
with whatever he did last night, or OW ? When he does
either call, or shows up at home (if he does) today, I'm
sure, as usual, that he'll just act friendly and as though
nothing has happened. Give me some ideas on my reaction ?
Slammed

This really does work....even when we BS don't even know we are doing it. In my sitch, during my FWH's A, I didn't even really consciously know he was having it. But I did know that we didn't seem to have much of a relationship and that he was having some sort of emotional crisis.

I guess that I instinctively started to move on with my life and do things without him. Nothing inappropriate mind you, just lots of dinners and after work drinks with friends and coworkers.

He started to realize that he was losing me more and more each day and that my life was moving on without him. It scared the ****** out of him. I think the final draw for him came on Thanksgiving. We spent it with a friend and her fiance. Also joining them for dinner was a man around 55 who was at least twice divorced. In talking to him, he sadly mentioned what a wonderful woman his first wife had been and that he had really blown it with her and would always regret it. He was terribly sad and I think now that my FWH saw his own future if he didn't end his affair. Up until then, although he regretted his involvement with the OW, he didn't quite understand what the probably outcome of his actions would bring.

Who

Slammed, your H is a WH. You cannot trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

MY H said all the same things, "I want freedom, space to figure things out, I just want to be alone, it is not about finding someone, having someone else would be too confusing right now, I don't want a serious R or a M."....blah blah..........

And the fact is that H has someone, and has been looking for a while. So, him saying what he is saying IS just to keep you at a distance. YOu don't know what he is saying to OW.

He is stringing you both along. Their A will not last, we all know that. It is based on lies.

What OW wants is not an issue slammed. Don't think about it. Remember that your R started out based on trust and respect, and grew into love, and more. Theirs is build on lies, and deceipt and manipulation. It does not stand a chance!

So, what are you doing tonight!?

You see slammed, your H is not the only one in his comfort zone, YOU are as well. You need to get out of that as well.

Go get some coffee or tea or whatever! Do it for you! Do it for your M! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Daisy-
It's easy to forget that the WH is not my "H", and that
I can't put much weight on anything that he says or does.
I certainly don't have any reason to trust anything the
OW says or does either...

The behavior of both WH and OW prove that WH is telling me
different things than he is telling me- and he's not told
the truth to either of us.
I've told WH that he is "burning the candle at each end"
and reminded him this always results in getting BURNT !!

Although little that WH does can shock me anymore, I am
a bit surprised I've not heard from him today, especially
after all his calls to "appease" his guilt last night and
him knowing I was not happy about his plans.
Don't know if he's so "enamored" with OW now that he didn't
"think" to call, if he's been especially busy at work, or
if he was waiting for me to call~

I went to the Dr this afternoon (3rd time in 6 weeks) and
am back on antibiotics and other meds again- still trying
to get over the sinus/respiratory problem that's been
dragging on. Guess I'll just head to the grocery store to
fill the prescriptions, get a few groceries and then go
home. I'd like to do something more exciting, but really
don't feel very good, so may just cook something for myself
and watch a movie or something.
Don't know what to expect with WH as unpredictable as he is.
He may be home saying "what's for dinner "?, may have been
home to pack a back for the weekend with OW, or may not even
hear from him...???

I plan to stay busy this weekend and to really put on the
"180s". Will get online if I get a chance.
Hope your weekend is good.
Slammed

Slammed,

You got to go out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! Seriously. Your plan is to watch a movie.....well, you can then easily go out to the nearest coffee shop and enjoy a LATE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />!

Do you see how his unpredictable behaivour makes you anxious still? Don't you think it is time you gave him a piece of his medicine, so to speak! Make him anxious, yes, go out! Don't be there when he gets home. And if he doen't come home today (if he is with OW) then tomorrow you go out and again don't be there.....on and on until he TAKES NOTICE!

Take Ark's advice!

Enjoy your weekend......be a misterious <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />!

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WHOME-
Thanks for your comments. It is encouraging to hear
that there might be hope for WH to come around.

I agree that we sometimes start doing things differently
out of "instinct". After WH moved out in August to live
with OW, the hardest part for me was filling my time,
as H and I had done almost everything together. Took
some getting used to, but I got pretty good after awhile
and was doing more with friends, went to some concerts,
kept the house nicely, did the yardwork, walked the dog
daily, and did more with family.
Once WH had the DUI, went into crisis, and was suddenly
needing and wanting to be with me, we slowly started to
do some things again, but still lived apart. I was able
to maintain my "seperate life" but enjoyed going to eat,
hot tub, or spend the evening with H.
I felt that the shock of him getting the DUI and the
subsequent extreme depression and anxiety it caused had
really brought WH out of the fog and back to reality,
so was glad when he moved back home about a month later.

WH was wearing his wedding ring again, was accounting
for his time, seemed to be making real effort at being
honest, was telling his Dr and therapist that we were
working on things and making progress, etc... which gave
me hope. He suggested we take a short trip, and we went
and had a great time-
Then- one day after we get back, he's "closed down",
won't talk, is back to spouting all the same "babble",
and I hear him telling OW he'll "prove himself to her",
"will be an open book, no secrets, all honesty", will
"get going on divorce the next day", etc...
We went to his counseling a few days later and he had
conveniently "forgotten" everything he said about his
loving me, appreciating me, being sorry he'd hurt me,
wanted to committ to me and our marriage, work things
out, etc. Told his counselor that the DUI had made
him decide to re-evaluate and re-think things about
us and our marriage, but that it just wasn't working
out and he regretted coming home. (Of course, he didn't
want to mention that this big "change of tune" exactly
corresponded with him trying to get back with OW again).

Since then, he's still at home, acts "normal",friendly,
jokes, and carries on as though everything is fine.
He goes outside to talk when OW calls his cell (no more
calls to our house phone). Last weekend, he told me he
was going on a ski weekend with her, and "needed" to do
it to be able to move forward, have a clean slate, make
a decision on how to proceed. Yesterday, he said he had
to stay overnight at OW's house to feed her horses and
dogs while she was out of town.
All of this "back and forth", excuses and babble are just
like at the beginning of the A, so obviously they have
or are working on reconciliation. I am trying to jump
back into working on myself, keeping busy, going "180"
and plan to go to Plan B when WH moves out of the house
in a couple weeks, but- it's sure felt like a huge setback
and almost as bad as back to the original D-Day.

WH has said that part of his difficulty in deciding what
to do has been that he's scared of making a wrong decision
and of realizing later that he's made a horrible mistake
and lost what was important (so at least there's a few
moments of clear thinking going on), but obviously it hasn't
changed his behavior so far. Wish he'd talk to even his own
brother who has not recovered yet from a divorce, and it's
been five years ago. Unfortunately, the discussion with WH's
IC made me feel like it almost made WH feel more justified
in what he was doing that helping.
I just don't know if he'll ever see the light, and if it
will be in time to help anything, but guess I'll continue
to do what I can.
Slammed

Slammed,

My dear Slammed, I have read all of Arks wonderful advice to you and I am here to tell you do it.....

She gave me the same wonderful advice during my planA. I did a lot of it and it di cause him to take notice. Nope it didn't stop the affair but he sure didn't like it.

But by the time i had gotten to planB some things happened when he moved out after the 2nd false recovery that made planb a nesscity before I could really planA much more. I was getting angry and was afraid of LB'ing all over the place. So thats why my planb has been a relieve for him I think, besides the fact OW is making him planb me in her own sick way.

But anyhow I know these things work, don't hestitate..... Plus it will make you feel good know matter what.....


Take Care ,

Hurting

Thanks Hurting, White Daisy, ARK~
I really appreciate the support and ideas.

The weekend was interesting.
I did really think about every action and comment, thinking
of what I'd "usually do", and trying to 180 it. Funny how
set we get in our patterns and habits, isn't it !?

Hadn't heard anything from WH Friday afternoon, so didn't
know if he was planning to come home, was doing something
with OW, or what and I didn't call him.
Wasn't feeling very good (had just been to the Dr for the
third time that day)but thought I'd try to reach a friend
and at least go out to eat, so as to be out of the house.
Left a message for my friend, and hopped in the shower to
see if it would help me feel better.
Was surprised when I got out, as WH was home ! (It was
7pm, about an hour later than he "usually" gets home).
Instead of asking anything about why he hadn't called, why he was late, or asking if he wanted to do something, I just turned on the radio, said "hi", and continued with getting dressed. He looked down, was quiet, but seemed surprised.
My plan to go out was a little sabotaged at this point, as
I suddenly got sick. Came out of the bathroom and WH asked
if I was okay, because I looked "really white". I said "I
guessed I was".
WH was changing and "tinkering" around upstairs, so I went
downstairs and layed on the couch for awhile. Went up a
little while later and saw he was just sitting in our
office, reading a little "inspirational" type book that WH
bought some time back (It's called "Live Like You Were Dying"- inspired by the song). Made me a little scared for
a moment that something might have happened with his Dad,
as he's been sick and in the hospital for several weeks now. I didn't say anything though, just went back down and
was very surprised when WH came down later and asked if I
wanted something to eat !? He proceeded to make some soup
for himself, offered me some, and sat downstairs to eat
and watch a TV show.
He sure did seem either upset, mad or down, and with his
bipolar disorder, it's impossible to know the cause-
whether it's that, something at work, something with OW,
or other. I did later ask if he'd heard anything new from
his Mom in regards to his Dad, and he is now apparently
making a slow recovery, so don't think there was any issue
with that.
My friend didn't call back and I felt really cruddy for the
rest of the evening, so didn't end up going anywhere, but
thought I saw at least a tiny change in WH just in my
changing my patterns of that one evening-

Saturday, I got up before WH, showered, and started working
on a stack of paperwork that needed sorted, filed, and set
aside for taxes. I didn't ask WH a thing about his plans
or doing anything together, just worked on my project.
He got up, told me he was going to run an errand and run
by the new house he is renovating, then would be back.
I was pleasant, didn't ask any questions, just said "see
ya later".
WH called about 2 hours later, said he was on his way back
and asked if I wanted to run errands together when he got
back. I said, "I might if I'm done working on my project".
WH was so surprised he didn't know what to say-
He got home later, and asked if I'd like to go look for a
new phone (one of ours was shot) and to run a couple other
errands. We did go, and it was pleasant. I didn't ask any
thing about us, M or the OW, didn't talk about future plans,
just tried to act pleasant, calm and content.
When we got home, WH asked if I wanted to watch a new DVD
downstairs and asked if I'd make some of my "famous" popcorn. Ended up doing that, and it was also nice.
Also nice (and interesting) was that I noticed WH had NO
calls from OW on Friday night, or while in my presence on
Saturday. She hasn't called our home phone for the past
couple weeks, but had been calling WH at least once in
the evening, so it made me curious. (??)

Sunday, I got up, read the paper and made some breakfast
(somewhat uncommon). Wh came down later, looked curious at
what I was doing, and read the paper himself. He asked if
I was feeling better, and I said "somewhat". I went on to
do laundry and a little housework, then showered and got
dressed. WH asked if I was busy, and I said "why do you
ask ?" He said, "He'd thought of going to look for outside
lights for the new house, and thought I might want to go".
I said "I had a few things to do, but could go later".
That really surprised him, as we've normally worked our
schedule around him !
Later, went to the house, the to look at light fixtures.
I have to say that he's done a nice job on the house- the
painting is mostly done, some of the carpet in, most of
the interior fixtures and new appliances installed, and
a new hot tub outside ! (not filled). I didn't ask anything
about what "we" were doing to do, if he still planned to
move or anything else about our situation.
Came home later and I "got busy" doing my things around the
house. Later I left, and just said "be back in a bit".
He looked very surprised but didn't ask anything. (What I
actually did was go get gas and run through the carwash,
then called a friend to take up more time !) Didn't say
anything when I got back either !
I always enjoy watching the "Oscars", so planned to just
watch it myself Sun. night (WH usually won't watch any kind
of award shows) and was really surprised that WH came up,
and stayed in the room with me the ENTIRE time ! Only thing
I could think was that my little 180 behavior had made him
curious !??
Also noticed, that he again had NO calls from OW the whole
time I was around him. This is very unusual !

Last night, WH came home about "usual" time, ate with me,
watched a couple of TV shows, and got ready for bed.
I did some things with him, and just did things myself.
I didn't ask anything or bring up any talk, and again, NO
calls from OW !

The last couple of nights, I've had some dreams and have
also been trying to figure out what might be going on with
WH and OW. Some of it gets all mixed together and it's
hard to know if it was "real" or "dream", but it's given
me a few thoughts and questions-
1) I saw that WH had one of the magazines on the local homes
for sale or rent. He had folded down the corner on a page
showing the area where OW lives. He later threw the magazine
out, but it made me wonder if OW's lease is up (she was
renting), if the owner was now selling, or she was otherwise
looking for a different place to live ?
I also saw, a couple weeks ago, that WH had an appt with a
realtor in his datebook. Could have been work-related, could
have to do with getting an appraisal for the newly renovated
house, but made me wonder if he was possibly trying to help
OW find another place ?
Makes me a little anxious and uncomfortable to think that
this might "time out" that she needs a place to stay right
about the time WH's renovated house is ready and he may plan
to move there, but no way to know if there is any plan that
she would move there too. She has horses, and they could not
be at his place, so if she did move there would have to have
them boarded.

2) I could be wrong, but think that the clothes WH took when he stayed overnight at OW's house last week (to "feed the horses and dogs while OW was supposedly out of town")
were dress clothes. Made me wonder if he might have gone to
some kind of dinner, or event with OW and made the excuse
about her being gone as a "cover" to be out for the evening.

3) The combination of WH being in a down, grouchy, "moody"
mood, and the lack of calls from OW all weekend make me
wonder if she possibly is moving away (maybe Thurs night was
a "goodbye" dinner ?), or if they had some kind of fight or
falling out ? I know that they could have talked at some
time during the day, while WH was not around me, but with
him mostly home and me within "earshot", it seems curious.
Last night, I did notice that WH's phone rang a couple times
but both were business related (I could see the number calling) and not OW. He seemed jumpy or anxious though, as
though he was waiting/hoping for her to call (or maybe it's
just me, being anxious about his phone ringing). He always
keeps his cell near him, until he shuts it off and puts in
on the charger at bedtime.

Guess I'll just make no comment and continue to "observe"
on this, and time will probably tell.
In the meantime, I'll continue with more 180's and realize
there are more "in your face" actions I can add.
Slammed

Just an update-
After all the stress of trying to figure out what caused
WH's sudden "change of tune", what was going on with OW,
what was going on with him possibly moving to the newly
renovated house, and more... and being physically sick
now for over 6 weeks, I decided that just backing off,
not trying to figure out and worry about everything, and
practicing as many "180s", while still being pleasant
and courteous would give me a break... and it's really
helped.
As noted in my earlier update, WH seemed to notice and
react some to the change in my patterns and behavior
over the weekend, so I've tried to continue doing some
different things.
I've not brought up or ask anything about us, the M, the OW, "what we are going to do", or anything about the house all week. I've become a quiet observer, not commenting on
the things I notice.

Several things I have been noticing have been very interesting-
Other than some regularly scheduled activities (alcohol class and volleyball game), WH has been at home or work.

There have been no calls to our house from OW for the past
two weeks, and no more "restricted", "blocked call", or
"private number" calls on the Caller ID.

While home in the evenings, WH has had NO calls from OW
for the past week. (Very curious about this, since she
had been calling constantly !) Makes me wonder if they
either really didn't get back together, did, but broke
up again (by her doing), if she wont' see him until he
moves out of our house, won't see him unless divorced,
etc. Any thoughts !!???

Wh has been wearing his wedding ring.

WH asked me to go to his psychiatrist appt yesterday
(still trying to adjust the meds for his bipolar disorder
as his mood is still fluctuating and he's still down).

WH has said nothing further about moving or not to the new
house. I was there with him on the weekend and it is quite
close to being completed, so will be interesting to see
what happens with this...

I had an appt with my IC last night which went well.
She agreed that WH still seems very confused and unsure of
what he wants to do. Part of this, is attributed to the
bipolar disorder, and I'm sure of it is the A "fog".
A new thought IC had was that WH seems to be very driven
by guilt. This made sense when I thought about the times
he's called me seeming to "feel me out" to see if I am mad
or upset, the times he's called to say "I'm not trying to
hurt you" (like he must try to "soothe" things), and his
telling me himself that part of his difficulty in breaking
it off with OW was his feeling guilty.
She also commented that he seems to have to a big "issue" with nobody thinking he's the "bad guy", and this causing him difficulties in saying "no", making a clean break with OW, him being honest about things.. which made sense also
especially when thinking about his family dynamics, and his
always being the "golden boy" of the family (so can't let
anyone think he's not).
She thought removing myself, letting him figure things out
for himself, concentrating on me and my needs, and trying
not to figure out and understand everything was a very good
idea and a way to relieve a lot of my stress, at least for
awhile, so I'm trying to continue with that.

Yesterday, his Dr told him to continue with the bipolar
medication he is on (which is a "mood stabilizer"), but
also put him on an A-D since his mood has still been down.
Hopefully- this will help overall.

Added note-
WH just called and said he is going to take his friend over
to see the renovated house, then will eat dinner with him.
This is a friend whom I know, and could be true, but of
course, I immediately felt anxious, wondering if he's really
meeting OW. I didn't say much, didn't complain, didn't
question- just said "see you later then". (180 for me !)
Guess there won't be any way to know for sue what he's doing
and I'm going to have to let it "be". Will continue to
"observe".
Slammed

While it could be good about the phone calls and wearing his wedding ring, don't get your hopes up about it, as this could be only a temporary lull.

Where it should make you hopeful is in the long term. He is showing that he is still attatched to you, and that when you go to Plan B it will likely have a big impact. What you see is promising overall, that at some point in the future you will have the chance to recover your marriage.

Take advantage of this little respite to rest up and prepare for the next round of drama. You're doing good!

Yes, does make me hesitant to take things- positive or
negative as meaning much, because they change so often !

Was very unsettled yesterday, after WH called and said he was going to meet a friend, take him to see the new house, and eat dinner with him. It is a friend of his whom I know,
and it is possible that he did what he told me, but I sure
immediately felt anxious and suspicious since I don't know
what's going on with OW, and since WH has certainly lied
before.
I kept busy for the evening, and was soaking in the tub
when WH got home about 930pm. While still in the bathroom,
I heard WH go into the spare bedroom and heard the closet
door open and close, which made me wonder what he was doing
in that room. Spoke a little later, as both of us were
getting ready for bed, but didn't ask or say anything about
his evening. Once he was asleep (sleeps heavy due to meds)
I looked in the closet of the spare bedroom and found a
bag with porn movies in it !
Made me think back and I remembered a time, almost a year ago, when I saw a charge on WH's credit card at an adult "bookstore", and he later did tell me he had bought some movies and had left them with his friend, so it may be that he really did see the friend and got his movies back, but know way to know for sure. Didn't see any receipt for
a restaurant, so don't know about the dinner either.

This morning we just both got ready for work, and didn't
say much (which is usual). As WH just started new meds
a couple days ago, I called this afternoon to see if he
was feeling okay. I asked WH if he wanted to run a couple
of errands tonight and get something for dinner while out.
He then said he "might" have plans. I asked "like what"?
and this launched us into a long conversation, with WH
talking about feeling "smothered", feeling more and more
strongly that he wants to be "alone, have his own space,
do his own thing, have his own things", how "he's not
trying to hurt me or misleed me", "how he just doesn't
think there was any way to change our marriage that would
work".
The conversation wasn't heated or angry- we actually both
talked calmly and quietly, and I was thinking carefully
about what I said, and how I reacted, trying hard not to
be judgemental, argue with him about how he says he feels,
or convince him of anything. I said "he was the only one
who knew how he felt, and the one who had to live with the
decision and the consequences", to which he said "he knew
that, but there was no way to ever be 100 percent sure about
any decision, and you had to live with the results".
He also talked about how much he enjoyed being by himself
and "doing his own thing" when he had his rented room
and how much he had been looking forward to moving into the
new house (alone). WH said it "had nothing to do with me",
"it's him", and that while he knew I was taking in personal,
it wasn't, because "it wouldn't matter who it was"- he just
didn't think he wanted to be married.

I've heard all of this before from WH, but I've always
considered it to be an excuse or "cover" for him either pursuing other women, or the OW, and have never taken it seriously because while WH was saying it, he never did do it - he went straight from our house to living with OW, and was with me anytime he wasn't with OW, never alone.
Now, I'm not sure what to think because it appears that
things may be over or at least have changed with OW.
If this is the case, and WH is still staying this, could
it mean this is really the case and he just doesn't want
to be married ?
If it's really over with OW, could it be withdrawal ?

If it's really over with OW, why would he not want to at
least try to work things out and get back together ?

I did ask WH what was going on with OW now (as I've not
asked or said a thing about her for over a week) and he
said "nothing", and that he "hadn't even talked to her for
a week". Whether it means they really have "broken up" for good, or if it's just another argument and temporary break up, don't know !? If he's still hoping to get back together, I guess this could still be a cover "just in case"- ?

I also wonder if part of what brought this on is whatever
he did last night ? If he really wasn't with OW, and did
see his friend and or/watch porn- could the desire to
be free to do that, get back on the internet to pursue more
OW, or the "addiction" to SF be fueling this ?
Or, even him wanting to do something tonight/this weekend,
so has to have some excuse or "cover" ?

A couple more thoughts-
WH's newly renovated house is to be done at the end of next
week. He's talked, throughout the last few months, about him
moving there. While things were going better and we were
"supposedly" working on getting back together in the past
couple months he talked about us both moving there. I even
helped pick out fixtures and we talked about where we put
our furniture, etc. Perhaps he is feeling guilty as he
is preparing to move there so this is all a big "smoke
screen" and excuse for "why" he needs to move there alone ?

The only other thing I can think of, is that the divorce
paperwork we filled out back in August "expires" next
Friday. (WH had gotten the paperwork right at the beginning
of his A, filled it out, and after his ranting and raving
almost hysterically and threatening to have me "served" at
work, I had filled out my basic info, signed, and had it
notarized, then nothing happened with it, but the paperwork
becomes "null and void" after 6 months, which is March 17)
Could it be that he remembers this and fills panicked to
make a decision ?

As far as OW, I have seen no sign of contact, there's been
no calls to our house, and WH has been getting no phone
calls at night on his cell (in contrast to her previously
calling him constantly). Don't know though, if she might
have put down at ultimatum that she wouldn't see him until
he was out of our house. Maybe she's even planning to move
in with him-

I'm very confused and just don't know what to think.
I'm already dreading the weekend, as I don't know what to
expect. Sounds like he might have plans, in which case I'll
be worried about him being out and possible drinking, or
about him getting stopped (he is driving on a suspended
license due to DUI he got in December) so my anxiety will
be great. (not knowing when he was out, or what he was
doing was a good thing about living apart for this reason).

Suggestions, thoughts and ideas- please !!
Slammed

Updated-
Went home last night not knowing what to expect, but just
planning to do my own thing and keep the "180's" plan going
since it's as least given me a little stress relief, as well
as seeming to get a little attention from WH.

Well, WH got home, changed, and came downstairs, where we
ate and watched some TV. We didn't really say much, but
were pleasant and getting along. Got ready to go upstairs
to get ready for bed, and saw WH go outside on the deck
with his phone. He made a big "show" of going out as though
he was playing with the dog and looking around, but I saw
him using his phone, and figured he was calling OW.
He was very quick,so I assumed he didn't reach her and just
probably left a message. I didn't comment- just went on to
bed.
This morning, our house phone rang at 745am, and it was OW.
I didn't answer, and she left a message saying "WH, it's
me. I was hoping to wake you up because I want to go up to
XXXX (nearby town) to look at that "stuff" (don't know what
this was) and wanted you to go with me. I can wait a little
while, so give me a call back". WH got the phone, went
downstairs, and called her back, out of earshot from me
then came back and got back in bed. I got up and started
getting ready for work, but said:
ME- "Funny how everytime you say you two are broken up, you
never are"
WH- "Yes, we are. It's just your twisted way of thinking,
that people can never be friends, just like you saying that
married people can never go on vacations or do anything
seperately". (This comes from something I said ages ago,
but he always takes it out of context).
Me- "No, that's not what I said or what I think, but if you
and OW were broken up, you wouldn't have been calling her
last night, and she wouldn't be asking you to go somewhere
with her today".

WH then continued to lay in bed which surprised me, as I'd
have thought he'd have jumped up and started getting ready
to go with OW (after all, he acts like a puppet on a string
on anything to do with her !) I continued getting ready for
work, and a little while later heard the phone ring again.
WH had already answered and went right downstairs, so
obviously it was her again. Heard him say "he was up and
getting ready", so apparently she was asking what he was
doing, and sounded like he did plan to go with her.
I didn't comment further- just got ready and came to work.

So, obviously a lot of my confusion and questions of last
night are answered, in that nothing has changed- and WH
is still involved, at least some, with OW.
Still don't understand exactly what's happening since he's
been spending all his time at home, and there's been no
calls in the last week until last night and this morning,
unless they had another "temporary break up" and are now
getting back together, or she has put some type of ultimatum
on him that she won't see him until he moves out of our house.
I'm very discouraged, mad, and frustrated about the contact
continuing, but at least know I'm not nuts, and that all
WH's "hearfelt" speech about him "not knowing if he wants
to be married", "wanting to be alone", "wanting to be on his
own", "him looking forward to moving to the new house alone"
etc. were all a bunch of the same old fog, babble , talk
and just a smokescreen for the continued A.

Guess this means I'll continue my Plan A/180 until he moves
out, which sounds like will be next weekend.
Just can't, for my life, understand what keeps luring WH
back to OW, and why she would keep it up too !!!!!?????

Will try to check in later, so please- ideas and thoughts!!
Slammed