So slammed, how is it going?

Any big 180s?

Daisy

Thanks Daisy, Milk, Orchid, Ark- I always appreciate
your support and suggestions.

It was an interesting night.
I hadn't heard from WH all day, and didn't call him either.
After work, I decided to go and run some errands.
WH called, but the reception was terrible, and the call
dropped. He called back shortly and same thing happened.
Finally, he called and we could briefly talk- he said he
was just leaving one of the "home improvement" stores,
and heading to another, as he was looking for some things
for the new house. Since the connection still wasn't too
good we didn't talk long, and just said "see you later
at home".
Finished my errands, then headed home. WH had just gotten
home and was upstairs changing clothes. When I came in, he
commented "you sure are gone alot lately !??" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> , and
then he asked "what is for dinner ??" I said "I already
grabbed something to eat, so you can have whatever you'd
like", smiled, and turned my attention to the dog.
WH grumbled some, but found something to eat, and then just
watched TV for the rest of the evening.

Later, when I came up to get ready for bed, I had a very
unpleasant incident with our dog. She is normally very well
behaved and sweet, but is also "high strung", needs more
exercise, and seems sensitive to WH's moody behavior. As
I sat on the bed with her, she got very tense and decided
to bite my hands several times. WH immediately came running,
scolded her, and made her go to her "bed". I was really
hurting, and initially even felt sort of faint and sick
since it hurt so bad.(she is about 65 pds, and bites HARD)
I went to the hall bathroom and was running my hands under
water when WH came in to see if I was okay. He rubbed my
back in a comforting way, and then hugged me, saying "he
was sorry she had done that". After that we both proceeded
to get ready for bed, and WH fell asleep first, as usual.

This morning was his bi-weekly regional meeting for work
which is his corporate office, about 70 miles away, so he
had to get up earlier than usual. He left as usual, saying
"bye", and was wearing his ring again.

Two things I noticed- one was that WH had no cell calls all
evening. That always makes me wonder "what's up with OW" ?
I did however, wonder about the calls he made to me with
the poor reception, because normally in town, there is no
problem with cell service. Out near where OW lives (in a
very wooded area on the edge of town) I know it is bad,
so it made me wonder if he had been out there and was coming
into town when he called.

Also, I noticed last night that WH had taken the D paperwork
from the desk in our office room ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
As I previously mentioned, WH had gotten the paperwork and been insistent on immediately doing it back in August 05 (right about the time OW moved here, although I didn't know it at the time). I filled out my basic info, signed it and had it notarized after he threatened to "serve" me with it at work. Then, he took it, signed it and had it notarized.
Since then... it's just sat.
I realized a couple of weeks ago that it's going to become
"null and void" as of tomorrrow (it is good for 6 mos since
the date it was notarized). Doesn't have a huge meaning,
since it could be re-done at any time, but it felt like a
big deadline to me. I never said anything to WH and didn't
know if he knew or would remember that, so it's a little
coincidental that just now the paperwork is gone. (???)

If I understand it all correctly, this basic paperwork
as well as "financial disclosures" and a "settlement" plan would have to be filed, and a date for either mediator
(if we don't agree) or a judge (if we do agree) would have
to be set BY tomorrow in order to keep things "going".
If it was done, then the court or mediator appointment would
be the next thing, and once completed, the D could be final
quickly since the 90 day mandatory period (goes from date
the paperwork was signed/notarized) has already past.

If the date passes, everything "starts over", with the
basic paperwork having to be re-done, signed and notarized,
and the whole same process, and a new "90 days" to wait.

Surely WH doesn't think we can get the whole financial
info and a settlement plan worked out by tomorrow !?
(I know I would want to talk to a lawyer, financial advisor,
and have some appraisals before I'd be ready, and I know
that wouldn't happen that quickly !)
Makes me wonder if he is trying to find out if there's a
way to "extend" it somehow (I don't know, but I'd doubt it),
if he's in a panic to appease OW, or if he was just curious
and wanted to look at it ?????
I'm not going to say anything, and will just be trying to
make it through today and tomorrow, like everyday, but
I am bothered by this....

Tonight is WH's IC session. He hasn't said anything about
it since earlier in the week. I won't say anything, but
did decide I would go, if asked. I think it will be kind of
awkward since last time we went was the night WH had just
started back saying "he wanted to be alone, on his own,
didn't think he wanted to be married", and that IC found
out about his A. I guess tonight, I could just say I am
coming for support and help with WH working on HIS issues
but no point in working on any M issues until NC with OW.
Don't want to get back into the A stuff or M stuff again
if it makes things worse or makes WH feel "justified" about
A, which is how I felt last time. Good idea ????
Slammed

Slammed,

No matter how he try to slice it, he cannot "justify" his A. Period. I know all WS's say they "were forced" to have A, b/c they were miserable, etc., but if your WH tries to justify his A after all you have done for him (NOT so many WW's would give OW a ride, that's for sure and WH should feel darn lucky to have a kind wife like you!), that would show how deep the fog is.

I understand how the D papers missing from the desk bothers you. It would bother me tremendously too. But try to stay strong. Don't think too much about it. Remember, even though it would be emotionally very hard for you to see WH go, IF he chooses to get back with OW, but the truth we ALL KNOW is that your WH will be at a great loss, and I bet it would not take too long before he realizes that again. But you just cannot let him walk all over you like he has in the past several months any more. If he thinks OW can be the anchor in his life like you have, let him figure that out himself.

I like that he noticed that you have been out a lot lately, though, by the way. This really shows how much he has taken you for granted. I'm sure OW would not do a half of the wifee duties you do to WH. Yet he cannot break it off b/c it adds excitement to his life..., well he has to realize he cannot just have candies for the rest of his life! He needs real meals, which is you.

Hang in there.
Milk

Slammed,
I wanted to second what milk said. The [color:"red"] AFFAIR [/color] is his choice. He chooses to actively go, talk, see OW! It is his choice. If you could make him have an A, then by the same logic you could make him stop it! SHeesh....the fog is deep!

Was the M perfect before the A? Probably not. However, you both contributed to the problems. So, he needs to own up to the failure in the M as well as you do. But [color:"green"] HE IS THE ONLY ONE [/color] who choose an A. Hence, he needs to own up to that [color:"red"]ALONE[/color]!

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks so much, Milk.

I did end up going to WH's IC session last night, at his
request. I was nervous about going, however, as I sort of
felt like our last session made things worse, and didn't
want to add to that.
Before we went, I wondered if it would be a good idea to
tell the IC that we were there to work on WH's issues, but
not M issues since while his A is on there is no point,
but since it is WH's IC, and I'm just there to be a help
and support with his bipolar, etc. I thought I might be
"overstepping" and thought I'd leave it up to WH.

It ended up going okay. When we first got there, IC said
she was "suprised to see us both there together, since the
last session had been left on a sad note".
(The last session was right after WH had just started back
up with OW again, and he was quoting directly from the WS
"script", saying "he wanted to be alone, wanted to do his
own thing, didn't think he wanted to be married, had been
unhappy and discontent for a long time, etc...)

Then IC asked WH what was now going on. He said "things
were still about the same" as far as how he felt and
repeated most all the same as before. IC asked if he did
not feel that there was some hope. WH said "A large part
of him wanted to be alone and on his own, but there was
a small part of him that was not sure". The rest of what
WH had to say were mostly things I've heard before- such
as him saying he felt "smothered", "liked being at his
own place, so he could do whatever he wanted, whenever
he wanted, be with someone or not, etc".
He kept reiterating how "this was not something that just happened overnight, but was something that he had been feeling/thinking for a long time". Said he had just been
"going through the motions for some time, but didn't think
it was fair and didn't want to keep doing that".

The IC asked asked how I felt or what I thought. I said I did understand and listen to everything WH had to say, but
that I really felt that this had to do with OW much more
than anything else. I said that WH had said and indicated
for some time that he was unhappy and discontent, but that
instead of him ever considering that it might be related
to his mental/emotional issues, he always seemed to insist
that it was because of me and/or the M. Said I felt that
it had led him to look for "diversions" or something that
would make him feel better, and it ended up being an A.
Said I really saw a total difference back in January, when
he was truly making an effort, was trying to be honest,
was really working on us, but that his whole attitude,
manners, and personality changed (for the worse) when he
again resumed contact and involvement with OW.
I said I still believed in H, our M, and that things could
change for the better, but knew I couldn't do it alone,
or do it at all when WH still involved in A.

IC then asked us some questions- like what we thought were
"benefits" of being married vs. "benefits" of not being
married, etc. Surprisingly, both of us brought up most of
the same things- loss of best friend and companion, loss of
past and plans for future, and financial issues.
For next week, IC asked that we both fill out in detail,
a sheet that "weighs" the benefits of each thing to discuss.

Overall, I did feel more support from the IC this week than
before, felt like she had "caught on" to WH's "WS script"
more than I originally thought, and that she was challening
WH to some degree. Of course, I know she is not going to
tell him he has to end the A, or what to do, but at least
she is asking WH to think about things, keep an open mind,
face the way things would be if D, and to not rush into
things.

Two things that WH said surprised me. One was him saying
that part of why he had stayed in the M, and was having
a hard time deciding what to do was "guilt". Said he felt
bad about hurting anyone and bad about me thinking it was due to anything I did or didn't do. Then he said I had
really tried to make him feel guilty, by saying things about
how hard it would be to find a place for me and the dog to
live, how it wasn't fair to the dog for her to lose her
home and yard, how I would have to give up my car because
I couldn't afford it, how I told him "he had ruined my life"
because we didn't have kids and it was now too late".
I felt odd about this, first of all, because WH doesn't act
like he feels the least bit guilty (in fact, I'd begun to
wonder if he even had a conscience). Also, I have not tried
to make WH feel guilt (at least not consciously). The things
he said are true- I would have a very hard time financially
because I don't make much money, would have to move, and
would have to get rid of my car, but I think his guilt is
coming from HIM, not me (and I said that).

Also, WH said to IC that "he had wanted to move into the
new house and had been looking forward to it, but that I
had told him "if he moved without me, it was over".
Now that, I know I never said !! I have never given WH
any ultimatums. I did say that I would consider him moving
out alone a "huge step backwards" and a "giant setback" as
far as he and I making any progress. I did say "I felt like
the only reason he would want to do that was to more easily
pursue OW", and I did say "I would feel very weird and also
uncomfortable if WH moved into the house and I later moved
there, because I'd feel like a "houseguest" and not like it
was my home". (because he bought it, renovated it, picked
all the colors, carpet, decor, etc) but NONE of those was
saying "it was over", so I don't know where he got that !??

Afterwards, we went to get something to eat, then came home.
We didn't talk much, as just an hour session seems to really
overwhelm WH. Got home, played with dog, and got ready for
bed. No calls from OW (although WH could have talked to
her on the way home, as we drove seperately). No mention
of the D paperwork, so I still don't know what's going on
with that !

Don't know what to expect this weekend. I have lots to do
as far as errands, housework and laundry, and am trying to
make some plans with friends too. Don't know if Wh will
have excuses so he can get together with OW, or will be
around home. I'm always nervous if he goes out, for fear
of his possibly drinking, or of getting caught now that
his license is suspended.
I'll do my best to continue to 180's.
Will try to check in later or tomorrow.
Slammed

Good morning all~
Didn't know what to expect last night, but WH got home
shortly after I did, and stayed home for the evening.
He ordered pizza for us for dinner, so ate and watched
some TV together. WH was very quiet and seemed grumpy.

Later, WH went upstairs (like to watch TV in bed) and
I purposely stayed downstairs, doing some things and
calling a friend. Went upstairs to get ready for bed,
and just after I got in the bedroom WH's cell phone rang.
I was close enough to see that it said "restricted caller".
HE answered but no one was there. A few minutes later it
rang again, and this time it was OW (I'm sure the earlier
call was her too). He immediately went downstairs and
outside and had a long conversation with her (45 minutes).
I heard bits and peices, and as usual it sounded like she
was questioning him about things, and wanting reassurances.
Heard him say "she" several times, and I think he was
talking about me- so she must have been fussing about him
still being here in the house with me.
I clearly heard WH saying "no she isn't, no she isn't",
and then say "we don't even get ready at the same time",
which made me think OW was asking or complaining about
us both getting ready for work in the mornings at the
same time, both using the bathroom, etc.
Of course, I'm SURE WH hasn't told her we sleep in the
same room, same bed, eat together, do things together,
etc !!! (I'm sure he's making it sound like he's in
another room, just here like roommates and rarely home
at the same time).
When WH came back in, he immediately got his phone charger
and went downstairs again, so he must have run down his
cell phone while talking. After another 10-15 minutes he
back upstairs. I was watching a movie and playing with the
dog, and didn't comment, and he didn't say anything either,
but obviously he knew that I knew it was OW.

This morning I woke up early, and decided to just get up
and get somet things done around the house. Decided I'd
not ask WH to do anything or about his plans, and after
doing some housework, I'd change, go out to lunch and run
some errands. Predictably, WH got up later, dressed, and
left, saying "he had to go over and check on the new house".
I said I had plans, would see him later, smiled and resumed
what I was doing.

Was interesting that I saw WH had some addresses with prices
and acreage listed on a sheet in his briefcase. I still
wonder if OW is having to move and he's trying to help her
find a place. I didn't recognize the addresses, might even
be in a nearby town, but with acreage listed, sounds more
like vacant land or "horse property" than in town (and that
would fit, since OW has horses). Perhaps they are going out
to look at the properties today ?

It's also interesting that WH has been saying he's moving
out to the new house. To the best of my knowledge it's
finished now (unless some very small details left to do)
but seems like he doesn't want me to know that, or is not
so sure about moving. If he really did think I said "it was
over" if he moved, wonder if that is what keeping him from
doing it ? If OW is pressuring him, wonder why he wouldn't
do it just to appease her ?

Nothing new about the D paperwork, and unless he got some
kind of extension or something, it expired yesterday and
has become "null and void". Maybe he's so grouchy because
OW is going to start asking about he D again !!! ???
Oh, what a web he has "weaved" with all his deceit !!

Don't know if WH plans to be gone all day, or back later,
but I'm going on with plans to finish some housework and
laundry this morning, go to lunch, and do some shopping
and errands. Will do as much "180" as I can.
Have been having a little harder time with making plans as
one of my good friends whom I do things with and get lots
of support is out of town for a few days, and another is
getting ready to be out of town for 2 months !
Slammed

Wow..I was brushing my teeth getting ready for work thinking about your situation and fuming!!!!

and here you are...

SLAMMED..

you are in a FOG of your own...

you go to counseling and sit on your mouth and hands while your husbands plays poor victim to his feels...

he's not sure how he feeeeels
he's not sure how he feeeeels about...

and his counselor hears him..
and you listen with your head cocked to one side looking kindly at him...

when the fact his is that his feeeeeelings are all fed by his continual behaviors and actions which he has total control..

it is ONE thing for contact to be going on
it is a whole new level of disrespect and cruelity when contact occurs IN YOUR FACE...

and scarier than that is YOU don't react..

dear husband...

your contact with your GIRLFRIEND in front of me defines your ability to disrespect and very very accurately hurt me..
you dear husband are a very cruel man..as noted by your own actions....


I want you to go out tonight and NOT GO HOME AT ALL

I want you around 6-7 to get a shower get all dolled up...and go out and not come home.......

let him stay home and chew and ruminate on the reality of his actions
let him pace and call your cell phone...and let the first 6-7 messages go to voice mail...

your tolerance of his blatant in your face contact..

concerns me
worries me
and in my opinion you saying is accepting and condoning...

and I don't mean to power struggle that crap..
I mean you hit him hard and fast between the eyes with the reality..

you realize he will go and be with her...and you will call and he will sneek away from HER to talk to you...

I infact believe that you would make an awesome OW to him..
and that's not a bad thing...
but in his plan to leave you..is also his plan to have access and talk to you ALLLLLL the time...reversing so to speak you and her ...

I really think you should go out tonight....
and not tell him where..
and stay out all night...

find a nice hotel
with an awesome bath...

and rest from the disrespect of such a man..

ARK

AND WHEN YOU COME HOME TOMORROW BRING LOTS OF BOXES FOR HIM TO PACK IN..
AMD
IF HE IS DRIVING WITHOUT A LICENSE...NEXT TIME HE DOES IT..CALL THE POLICE

ark

yikes slammed..

didn't mean for that to come of mean at all..

I am sorry,,,

I was in a rush to get to work..

what I am trying to say is that I can't believe what an awesome plan A you have done....and how he does what he does in your face....

I am trying to wake you up from having such disrespect in your face which you don't deserve..

it is beyond decency to hide and take her calls like you don't know it...

how awful..
and how you don't have to take it.....

it's like he is gaslighting to you....
it is not normal behavior...and all the love and oartnership you have done for him... and his response to do that to you in your face....

My response sounded mean once i got a chance to read it...and i mean no malice to you...
I am just really mad at your husband......

who doesn't know a good thing when it's staring him in the face...
and his drivle and dribble to his counselor reeks of cowardice...

his poor poor me...

time for this one to stand on his feelings...and really feel the reality of his actions....

please accept my apology...
it is not unusual when we live with absurd behavior (his hiding contact in your face...) for abnormalness to become the norm for YOU...

and my whole point of the you being the OW...is based on his thought that he can still have 100000000000% access to you if he and when he is with you....

he believes he can have his cake and you also...
time to pull the rug my friend...

again and again I am sorry that it came off soooo harshly..that is not what I meant and hope you realize that it was in the spirit...

of GIRLFRIEND...time be strong and roar...cause you can do it...

ARK

Ditto Ark. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (wow, that's a short post 4 me). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Ark and Orchid-
Thanks to you both for your support and care.
(and no, no offense taken !)

I am grateful for the thoughts and insight, because it
is so hard to see the situation from an "outside" view,
and to think of new ideas when you feel like you've tried
everything~

As you know, I was hesitant about going to the counseling session. I was afraid WH was going to try to make it into a "forum" for his WS "script" - such as telling the IC how he's been "unhappy for a long time, but stayed in the M out of guilt or not wanting to hurt me", "wanted to be on
his own, alone, and with his own things", and that "OW had
nothing to do with it", etc.
I felt like IC was perceptive though, and not necessarily
falling for it. She seemed to challenge WH on some of his
points, and wasn't just letting "him off" easily on things
he said vs. things he's doing (like OW). I felt like she
was encouraging him to look at things more carefully- like
what he would lose, and to accept that at least part of his being unhappy and discontent are likely due to his mental health issues.
She asked us to each fill out a sheet for next week, which
lists "Benefits of Being Married","Consequences of Being
Married", "Benefits of not being married", "Consequences of
not being married" (some kind of a "model" for "weighing"
each item). We already talked about this some though, so
know what things WH is likely to put down, and that he is
not likely going to find any solution with this, since he's
been "fence sitting" for such a long time.
I almost wonder if part of the reason WH wants me to go and
agreed to talk about these issues with IC, is him hoping
that she will say "we aren't compatible", or that "we
should D" because it would make him feel less guilty if he
isn't " the bad guy" ???? Don't know that a MC would tell
you that anyway, but just a thought because I know that WH
told OW we had previously been in MC (not true) and had
been told those very things, but he had "stuck it out" with
me longer because he "took marriage seriously" and "didn't
want to hurt me".
With this in mind, I wonder if I should go to the session
this coming week, but tell the IC either:
1) That I won't be coming anymore because there is nothing
we can do to work on M while WH is having A, or
2) That I will come to help with his working on HIS issues
but nothing to do with M since nothing we can do to work
on M while WH is having A .
What are your thoughts on this ...?????

I do agree and feel that WH is very disrespectful in regards
to his phone calls with OW while at our house, we well as
his lies about where he is or what he is doing. I am sure he knows I don't believe him, yet he still goes to great detail with his "stories".
Since he knows that I know about OW, I never have understood
why he isn't just honest !!!???
I have straight out told him that he is very disrespectful
to talk to that w*%@e while in our home, which did nothing
but just make him mad and say "well, I won't be here for
much longer", so I really haven't known what else to do -
can't kick him out, and don't have means to go elsewhere
myself.

I know that WH does think he can have me as his "backup"
and ready and waiting for him, and your description of him
sneaking off to call me when he's with OW is exactly true-
I KNOW he has done this. (Just like he has snuck off to
talk to her while with me).
I and have been trying my best with the 180's and plans for Plan B, to show him I'm not going to be the OW !!
It has been hard for me to be "opposite" of my normal self, because I have loved and cared for this man for a long time and especially because of his mental health issues, have some fears for his well being and stability at times, but I realize that "taking away his cake" is about the only chance left to get him out of his comfort zone and off the fence.

The weekend has been tough. WH left yesterday morning to
"check on some things at the new house". He asked what I
had planned, and I said that "after doing some things around
the house, I was going out to lunch, running some errands,
and going shopping".
WH was back in a fairly short time, and asked "did I care
if he took the barstools over to the new house ?"
I said "I didn't care, but surely you aren't going to just take things peice-meal"?, "Figured you'd just take things all at one time ?"
Then asked "When is it you are going to move there" ? and
WH said "I don't know".
I had mixed feelings about him taking the stools. WH bought
them from his bonus commission last year and we've never even used them, but just seeing him start to take things from our house was hurtful. I also feel a little strange
about "dividing up" our things, since we aren't currently
getting divorced and have no agreements on anything like that. I don't care that he has them, as if we get back
together, they will be at the new house anyway, and if we
don't I won't need them, but wasn't sure how to handle it.
I did write it down in my notebook (I keep good notes on
everything !)
I finished the things I wanted to do, cleaned up, went out
to lunch and was shopping when WH called me later. Said he
was going to stay overnight at the new house, so he could
"fill the new hot tub". I asked "why he was going to do that
before even moving in, and on a day when it was expected to
snow?" because, of course, I didn't believe him.
Went about the rest of my shopping, then came home and
decided at the last minute to go to a symphony concert last
night- something I haven't done for a long time.

This morning, I continued working on getting tax paperwork
together and doing things around the house. WH called mid-
morning and said he was going to drive to a nearby town
(where we own some land) to look at some comparable lots
for ideas on price (we are considering an offer to sell).
I'm sure WH knew I would have liked to go, but he didn't
offer, so maybe OW was with him. Sounded like voices in
the background, so I asked where he was and WH said he had
stopped to get something to eat, which further convinced me
he wasn't alone.

So, at least I'm not having to deal with him being home
but it's been a long weekend. I am planning some things
to do later so I won't be home when he gets back, and will
be as 180 as I can the rest of the night/week.

Slammed

When he returns....sniff the air and wonder out loud if he smells the stench. Don't describe it much just say it is a bit nausating. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I actually did that to my then WS. LOL!!! He later admitted his nose wasn't what it used t/b. That helped so now his nose wasn't as acute.....I used that and found out other body parts weren't as acute also (like his brain)....that became a good tool to use to break the A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Gotta love reverse babble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

I got to the point where WH's constant lies were worse than the affair. One day when he started out with one I just laughed in his face. I told him, "WH we both know that this is a lie, so let's not even start. We've been friends too long to go through this". After that, he quit lying.

Of course we are still getting divorced..................

Orchid- I love the reverse babble and will indeed us it when
he gets home.
ME- "gosh, what is that awful smell ?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I definitely know WH's got some serios problems with several
of his parts, of course, with OW, he only has to think with
and worry about ONE part. he, he


Believer-
I agree- the lies are so stupid when we both know what's
going on. Don't think the WS even expect us to believe them
but still feel they have to put something "out there".
In the case of my WH this (lying) seems to be a long standing habit, developed in his disfunctional family,
but he did do much better at trying to be honest when not
involved with the "skank-ho" (my personal name for OW).

Slammed

Slammed....

I think you really need a much stronger plan...

I think you have several options but I am concerned about your participation in and though I hate the term....the dreaded CONFLICT AVOIDANCE syndrome...

I think you need a much much stronger take notice plan...

here's some things to mull over...

1. YOU begin to make plans to move in to the other home... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

YOU start going over THERE...bringing home paint chips talking about doing this or that in this room....
YOU start treating that home as YOURS...

NOT HIS...YOURS as well....
YOU saying...hey I'm going over to our other house...
it's a marital assett...as far as I understand it's HALF yours if you're married....



My concern about your 180's is that they are detaching from in.....
and I they aren't really that drastic at all.....and probably make him feel more comfortable..

you need 180's that get his interest...

you need 180's that make him uncomfortable...

Plan a dinner party at your home with friends that support you..
do it without him and make it like you have no concern whether he is there or not....

part of me thinks YOU should move in to the new house..
certainly go over there and use the new hot tub...

invite people over there....

you gotta turn the heat up on your end....

You also need to tell him that there is NO mystery why he feels nothing for this marriage...he puts NOTHING in to it..

marriages and feelings are not entities...they are actions which then affect our feelings....

this game that he is victim to feelings while he does nothing to act differently is not rocket science...

is it a joint cell phone plan...change plans and phones and tell him you aren't PAYING for him to contact his girlfriend nor do you want your name on part of a contract...

slammed you gotta turn this up and turn his head...

can you NOT go home tonight..
why not rock his world...

what are the fear holding you back...

ark

Slammed, no offense, but it is starting to get irritating reading your posts.

You keep reporting events and asking, "What should I do? What do you think?" but you don't do anything that anyone suggests or make any kind of change.

"Since he knows that I know about OW, I never have understood why he isn't just honest !!!???"

Uh, I think you have him confused with someone who knows the meaning of honesty.

Here, I'll help you get started on your MC assignment:

Benefits of being married to Cake-eater -

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... can't think of anything

Consequences of being married to Cake-eater -

1. dishonesty
2. lies
3. no trust
4. no security
5. no love
6. no respect
7. no self-esteem
8. being treated like dirt
9. etc, etc

Consequences of not being married to Cake-eater -

1. freedom
2. happiness
3. self-respect
4. control of Slammed's life


I could go on and on.

Why aren't you standing up for yourself?

Em

Thanks, Ark~
I am interested in hearing more of your thoughts on my
options ! Not sure I understand what you mean about the
180's "detaching"from him ???
I do like the ideas for stronger 180's and appreciate all
the help I can get !

After WH's call (about 430pm) to say he was on his way
back into town and would stop at new house to "check on"
things yesterday, he didn't get home until 930pm.
He didn't make anything to eat, so I assumed he had
either eaten out with OW, or spent the evening at her
house or his (although there's no furniture at his).
IT was a cold, windy, and snowy evening, so I don't
think they were in the hot tub !

When I got into bed, I smelled the faint scent of Wh's
cologne, and commented on it. He said "you must be nuts
if you think you smell that". I just smiled to myself
about what an idiot he is !!! Then, WH said "well,
it must be my shower gel". I said "Oh, didn't know you
had "Cool Water" shower gel" (he doesn't).
Went on to sleep, and woke up to a very cold, blustery
and icy day. Most all the schools are closed today,
but both WH and I still had to go to work.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I'm just feeling
out of ideas, and a lack of direction since nothing I
try seems to make any difference. Maybe it really will
be a good thing for him to move so I can jump to Plan
B, maybe I'm just giving up, or maybe it's the dreary
day, but I'm down and tired....

WH bought the new house back in August with the intention
of fixing it up and then selling it to make some profit.
As he's worked on it, he decided he liked it so much that
he wanted to keep it, so added more things to it, and it's
now just about complete. If divorcing, I think it would be
considered a "marital asset" and we'd have to address how
to "split it", but at the moment, everything about it is
in WH's name only, and I don't have a key.
He currently has a "rehab" loan on it, which required small
"interest only" payments while it was being worked on.
It's a one year loan, so when the time is up (August) he has
to either sell it, or "roll the loan over" into a new
mortgage.
It's actually a very nice house, in a nice part of town
and WH did a good job on it. It's been completely renovated
with freshly textured walls, fresh paint, new carpet and
tile, all new appliances, new bathrooms, sound system
installed, new patio, the hot tub, etc....

During our (false) "recovery" in January/February, I was
at the new house several times, and helped with choosing
some of the fixtures, outside lights, gave my opinion on
some things, etc. We discussed where we would put some of
our current furniture and what new things we might want.
The plan was that we would sell our current house and BOTH
move to the new house.
Now that the A has resumed and Wh's apparent plan is to move
to the new house himself, I feel very sad about having been
there and seeing it, and totally sick at the thought of OW
being there !

I have told WH "that if he put half the effort into the M
that he puts into pursuing the A and keeping his stories
straight, we'd not have any problems at all", and have told
him many times that "he isn't getting anything out of M
because he's not putting anything in to it". Doesn't seem
like anything I say really ever sinks in however....

We are not currently on a joint cell phone plan- we did
previously but he had to change providers due to his work.

I guess my biggest fear with WH is his cutting off the
finances, since he has the much higher income and pays the
bulk of our expenses and bills.
I know this is an issue which has caused some resentment for the past year or so, even before the A, as I lost my higher paying job due to a change of contract (I was a contractor to the Govt) and got a new job that pays less, so he has had to contribute more. I don't like it either, and have been checking into options, school, changing career fields, etc. while I do continue to work full time
in my current job. I am also careful with money- don't
"splurge" on a lot, use coupons, buy things on sale, etc.
but feel somewhat confined as far as being able to go out
to eat, buy things, stay out somewhere, etc. because I
don't have much money of my own .

Another issue that complicates things a bit is my dog.
She is left alone all day, so I feel bad leaving her all
evening too, and if going away overnight or for long
lengths of time, I'd need to bring her with me.
(Especially since never know if WH will even be home and
don't trust him to take care of her).
Since selling our older vehicle last year, we do not have
a car in which to take her anywhere, so when I've had to
take her somewhere (such as the vet), I've had to borrow
my parent's truck.

My other fear is harder to describe, but I guess it's just
the feeling that I have so little change left.
I am feeling like the little bit of "leverage" (for lack of better word) that me or our M might have had with WH is
"fading away".
By this I mean, I had felt like WH still remembered the
fun, good times, memories, and plans we had together, and
that they might have meant enough to help bring him back
to the M. While having our brief "false recovery" in the
past couple months, WH even mentioned a few things he had
missed, and a few things I had said (and not realized he
had heard or remembered), but apparently none of it meant
enough to keep him from getting back with OW, so I don't
think they must hold much "power" anymore.
Also, the longer this goes on, the less hope I am feeling
that things can turn around. I know that compared to some
others here, our seperations and the A have been relatively
short, but realizing that he's now been involved with OW for
7-8 months, I am getting very discouraged. Feel like if
all the crap with OW hasn't "killed" the attraction and
interest, what will ???????????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Just to "recap" the "highlights" of the A, just from when
OW and WH "met" on the internet in July or August:
* WH helped OW move here into rented house WH helped her find and moved in with her immediately
* OW got pregnant less than 1 month after moving here
* OW was suspicious of WH within a month of him moving in
with her, and called me trying to get info but chickened out
* OW called me mid-Oct, exposed the whole A, told me all
about it in more detail than I needed, and wanted "dirt"
on WH. WH, however, was furious at me for talking to her
and not even upset with her for calling ME.
* OW also got into Wh's phone to listen and/or erase his
messages and called his XGF to ask "who she was and why
she was talking to WH". (they have daughter). As a result
WH's daughter now knows about A, and word also got back to
his Mother. Yet, he wasn't even upset with OW.
* OW kicked WH out of house after finding out he lied
about almost everything.
* WH moved into a rented room- end of October
* While "broken up" for about 10 days, WH wanted to get
together and discusssed reconciliation with me.
* WH and OW got back together, and dated Oct- Dec
although WH stayed in frequent contact with me, remembered
my birthday and gave me flowers, came over once a week for
mail, exchange clothes, visit dog, gave me Christmas gift,
etc.
* WH got DUI on Christmas Eve while with OW, and called me
for help since he has no friends or family to help him.
* WH fell into worst depression and anxiety he'd had since
I've known him due to legal issues with DUI. Wanted my help,
comfort and support. Got lawyer, medical help, and started
counseling. Spent lots of time together. WH seemed to have
quick "clearing of the fog" and back to reality.
* WH moved home about a month later, committing to ending
all contact with OW, work on M, continue counseling, etc.
OW NOT happy- called our house many times, blasted me with
insults and "how pathetic I am", left nasty messages, sent
package with all of the letters, cards and photos from A.
* WH planned trip for us- great 3 days together in Las Vegas
* Got back, and WH immediately changed attitude, mood, and
personality. Found out he was promising OW he would "prove
himself to her", "be an open book- no secrets", "get right
on getting divorce done", although he denied change had
anything to do with A.
* WH back to making excuses, lying, and stringing me along
while making excuses, lying, and stringing along OW.
Still at home, but planning to move out soon.
Nothing done on D, in fact, paperwork should now be "null
and void" and would have to be started all over.

Instead of all the "drama" seeming to put a wedge between
them and break the "addiction", it just seems like they
keep coming back again and again for more, and I don't see
what is going to ever end this permanently. ????

I am trying to tread cautiously, feeling like there is so
little holding our M together and not wanting to make any
big mistakes that push it past the point of no return...
if that makes any sense ?

Slammed

{{{Slammed}}}

Your WH had a previous R before you where he had two daughters, right? Then he married you but now he has OW. It seems he just cannot keep ANY R stable. Nothing is good enough? Is he looking for a wonder woman who makes him complete?

Obviously, the R he has with OW is not very solid either. OW is complaining so much and he had to "prove" himself to her? Well if he could not prove himself to a woman he had kids with or to his wife, what does OW expect?

To me, he is never going to "get" it - he keeps changing surrounding circumstances but he remains the same person. Have you ever spoken to SH? Would he agree to speak to him?

Milk

Em-
Sorry, I know my posts get long, and I have sometimes
repeated same things over- that's just me "talking to
myself" and venting !!
I do value and appreciate all the suggestions, ideas, and
support I get here- especially knowing we don't fit the
true MB "mold" due to Wh's mental/emotional/addiction
issues, but WH has so often followed the same "WS script"
as many others here, so I have still found the info helpful.

I am trying to do what people here have suggested, as well
as following the suggestions I got while counseling with
Jennifer at MB, which was to do "Plan A", until WH moves
out, then going to a dark Plan B.
What to do in the meantime, while WH is still at home and
carrying on the A, has been the dilemna- as I was trying
to do whatever I could both for my sanity and to help
(or at least not make worse) the situation.
I also have not had to deal with this before, as WH moved
out the day OW moved to town, so I don't have experience
with having the A "in my face".

I know WH is a major "cake-eater", and there are no benefits
to that at all. If we had not had years of a good marriage
and me have known H to have been an honest, fun, loving H
in the past, I wouldn't even have the energy to try to
recover our M. Don't know if I do even with the hope of
seeing my real H again !? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What can you suggest for standing up for myself ?
Thanks,
Slammed

This would be wild, but what do you gals think about her moving in a big hurry to the new house, and plunging straight into Plan B?