Slammed, I have been reading your posts everyday and I can't stand it anymore. WHY, WHY, WHY are you enabling this A..Yes, I said it. I just don't understand why you are doing this to yourself..OW is not letting go quietly because he has not told her to go. H is not giving up OW and as long as he thinks you will be there for him, he is going to keep this up. Then, to add insult to injury, he want's to sell the land that belongs to both of you and not give you half because he contributed more $ to the household? Unbelievable!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Please go to plan B now..Are you serious that it might not be the right time to go to plan B because your H is depressed,facing jail time for his DUI, on meds and guilt ridden? Come On <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />..He is the one that caused all of this and he needs to deal with the consequences. Maybe while he is sitting in his jail cell, away from OW and alone to face himself, the fog will begin to lift. He needs to hit rock bottom, he needs to believe that you are not going to take his or this OW's S*** anymore. Is this all worth it? You can't save your marriage unless he wants to. The A needs to end first. All this seems like such a waste of time. I'm sorry if I sound harsh. I just know that if it was me, I could not just sit around waiting for my H to decide. I know it would be hard to do, but so is what your doing now, right?

Amen Beauty...AMEN!!!!!

ark

Hi Eyeseeem,
I'm not yet in Plan B, and wasn't trying to be by my phone
message to WH, just meant it was heading in that same
general direction as far as "I can't be involved with you
as long as you are involved with OW".
Also, same with my talking to WH about the A and OW being
an "addiction" last night-

I am preparing to go into Plan B- just holding off until
some land sale and tax business is complete, after advise
here that I should finish anything requiring "face to face"
meeting before going dark.
For myself, I'm continuing with my IC, and doing my best to
keep working on changes I'd like to make strengthening
myself and my independence, and adjusting to living alone
(again). I also stay busy with work, keeping up the house,
yard and dog, do things with friends/family, am looking for
other job options (need to make more money), and am working
on "self care" (more sleep, water, vitamins, exercise, etc.)
Slammed

Me- BS, 42 WH- 38 Married 8 years, together 11 years
H has D13, with college GF and D11 from ONS (no contact)
8/05- WH "meets" OW on internet. Several weeks of phone, TM,
email before they both fly to Vegas to meet. Two weeks later
WH flies to her state and helps her move here(she was moving
here for job already) then immediately moves in with her,
but denies A.
10/05-OW calls me, exposes A, wants "truth" about WH, M and
me. WH furious I talked to her. OW kicked WH out. He rented
room. "Breakup" lasts about 10 days.
12/05- WH gets DUI on Christmas eve, calls me for help.
Has major panic attacks and goes into severe depression,
seeks lawyer, counselor and psychiatrist. Is diagnosed with
bipolar disorder, put on meds and starts counseling.
Seems to come "out of the fog" quickly- wants to reconcile.
2/06- WH moves home. Is trying to end all contact with OW,
apologizes, commits to working on M. OW calls our house
constantly, leaves nasty messages, send me package with all
their correspondence, graphic photos. We have great trip
together, but contact begins as soon as we return. WH back
in the "fog".
4/06- WH moves out to newly renovated investment house.
A is back on, WH back to "WS talk".

You are not divorced yet Slammed. Why are you selling your land? These things should be handled by a divorce lawyer. It seems that H is lining up his ducks before a divorce and then you will have nothing left to bargain with. But, if you do not get a divorce and rebuild your marriage, you have sold part of your land. Nothing should be divided up until you have both decided where you are going in your marriage. I would not sign those land sale papers. He even got you to bargain it down to the price of a car and a cc. Not right.....But because you did bargain with him, I am inclined to believe that you are also lining up your ducks to have things paid off so you are financially stable incase of divorce. Do not do anymore of these legal things unless he is filing for divorce and you are being instructed by a good divorce lawyer. Plan A is not going to work anymore if the both of you are expressing divorce like behavior.

Thanks Mimi, Beauty, Ark ~

Agreed Mimi, WH's behavior is hurtful, sad and just plain disgusting. Even "out of the loop" and seeing or knowing very little of what's going on with he and OW, I'm still amazed that anyone can talk "out of both sides of their mouth" so well and even keep their "stories straight" while living lies with two different people.

I don't think it will be to too difficult for me to stay
"dark", as I basically leave WH alone now, and am used to
taking care of things on my own. I was just waiting to go
to the "Plan B" until the land sale and now taxes were done
since that will require "face to face" contact. Do you
think I should go ahead anyway...?

Beauty-
It's not my desire to "enable" the A in any way, but I do
realize that WH is taking advantage of my caring and being
a patient person in order to continue his "cake eating".

You are right about OW. She has not "let go", because WH
has never ended it with her or "let go" himself, even when
they "broke up". I think he has been sincere about wanting
to end it at times, but he apparently hasn't had enough
courage, "gumption" or incentive to really make free of
the addiction. My guess is that her awful behavior (the
constant calls to our house, nasty messages, package she
sent me) happened when she felt like WH might be pulling
away from her and she felt desperate.

I do feel sad and sorry for H and the difficulties he has
dealt with due to his mental illness, but the "path of
destruction" he's been on now have been all the doing of
WH and the A, including the DUI which he got while WITH OW !
She just wants to "play", and he's the one who will "pay"
which seems to be the whole basis of their relationship !

I do have concern over H's mental state, because regardless
of what he's done, I care about his safety and about him as
a person. My concern about the timing of Plan B, was worry
that it will be viewed as a "punishment" or "deserting him"
rather than as a move to "save my love for him and our M"
which I thought was supposed to be the "basis" for Plan B
(is that wrong ??)

Ark~
You've been priceless in giving me practical ideas and
plans, and I would love to have more of your thoughts on
going to Plan B now, vs. waiting to finish our financial
business , and things to do between then and now ?
I was planning to use your idea of looking great and having
WH meet me for a nice dinner, then handing him the letter
with a nice smile <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Slammed

Please do not think that I am trying to hurt you in anyway, it just seems that because your H is the kind of person that doesn't have "enough courage, "gumption" or incentive" that he may be waiting for you to ask for a divorce and because you are doing plan A, he is confused why you haven't. H bought a new house, took furniture, want's to sell land and won't end the A. He is telling you without really telling you. I am sorry and I know you love him. I hope that he wakes up from this daydream and realizes what he is doing. But for now, you should not be making such big decisions regarding your property. You need to focus on getting H to end A so you can move past this limbo and rebuild your M..

I am not a veteran to MB. I am just a BS as well, so I might not be the best person to give advice, I just thought I would point out what others haven't. I am here as well to rebuild my marriage.

If I'd had come home to a man sitting at a table doing his community project making blankets...when he should be on his knees daily thanking GOD he didn't KILL anyone....

I would have stopped for a second...
said.
HUH...didn't expect that...."

I'd a breezed by him gone upstairs playing AC-DC as loud as it would go....

gotten dressed up....

looking fabulous..
smelling even better and headed right back out the door...

saying please lock up I'm gonna be a while...

I swear to God wild horses wouldn't have gotten me to HELP him with his community service ...

slammed I am becoming concerned..
is your plan B letter
written and the ink is dry

is it good
is it dead on

ARK

Beauty~
The land we are wanting to sell is a piece we bought a few
year ago as an investment. (it's in a nearby town)
We never planned to use it ourselves, but thought someday
it might go up in value and would get a good return on it,
or H had mentioned that possibly we could build on it (to
sell, not live).
Recently, that area has become "hot" and we've been getting
calls from realtors asking if we're interested in selling.
We got a really good offer, and because WH has big credit
card bills, he became interested in selling.

When we discussed, I was agreeable because it would benefit
me to pay off my car and credit card and him to pay off his
credit cards whether we end up together or divorced.

I'm not thinking of it as a "step" towards divorce, just
thought it good to take advantage of a great offer when it
was available, and do like that I can pay off my car and
credit card. Also, without those monthly bills, I will be
able to contribute my "half" towards our joint monthly
bills, like the house mortage, utilities, phone, groceries,
and etc ~ which made me feel a little less "dependent" on
WH.
Were our circumstances different, us "together" and no A
going on and the opportunity to sell the land came up, I
believe I'd think of it the same way, and we would have
likely done the same thing with the money- paid off the
car and credit cards (but it wouldn't have been "yours and
mine".)

I did talk to a lawyer in regards to this, as wanted to
make sure I could "stipulate" that WH could not go out and
run up more credit card bills and if we D, try to claim
they are "marital debt" and me responsible for any part of
them, and also wanted to make sure he couldn't come back
and try to claim "marital asset" on the car. I hated to
call and hate to even having to think of these things, but
know that WH is not clear thinking or thinking of our or
MY interests while in the fog !

Slammed

Beauty ~
I dont think you are trying to hurt me and am in no way
offended by your posts. I know all of us are "in the same
boat" , trying to do our best to save our M, and it does help to get ideas and thoughts from others as well as the moral support.

Perhaps WH has hoped I will get tired of waiting, run
out of patience, and go fo D myself, but I think he knows
that's not going to happen. I have tried to be very clear
all along about my position- "I do marriage, not divorce",
"I believe in our M, believe people and things can change,
and believe we could turn our marriage into a happy and
satistying thing for us both", and "I believe his thoughts,
outlooks, and feelings would change totally if he'd get
out of the fog/addiction".
Besides the typical A fog and addiction, WH and OW both
seem to have obsessive type personalities, which doesn't
help either. (WH has obsessive-compulsive disorder).

WH hasn't been so incapable that he couldn't discuss and
make moves towards D however- he got the paperwork, filled
out his basic information section, brought it home and
"demanded" I fill it out, sign it, and get it notarized
back in August (didn't know at time, but OW had just moved
here and the A was "hot and heavy"). Well, I talked to a
lawyer, my counselor, and found out I couldn't keep it from
happening, so signed and had it notarized, brought it home
and there is sat... for months gathering dust until it
expired in March.

Seems like the things WH is doing, such as "moving on",
having his "own place", taking some furniture and some of
his belongings (much of his things still at our house),
and doing nothing to get off the fence either way are very
typical of the WS I've known of here. I realize I can't
do anything myself to change or end the A, but can change
my behavior, and the dynamics which might lead WH to do so-
and that's really the only hope I have.

I'll try to catch up on your situation as well.
Slammed

Ark~
That was a great idea, and I'm sorry I didn't think of it !
(guess I'm just too "programmed" in some of my behaviors)

I didn't know WH was at the house until I'd run up the
garage door, and did have a fleeting thought of leaving
and making him wonder where I'd gone after work, but he
already knew I was there (due to garage door) so I just
went on in the house.

You are right about WH needing to be VERY grateful that
he was not in an accident that damanged anything, hurt
anyone, or killed anyone when he got the DUI. I sure hope
that the scare, "alcohol awareness" class, treatment he
is undergoing now, and legal consequences will make it
the last incident he ever has.

I have the rough draft of my PBL written and sent to Jennifer (she suggested sending it to her when we talked
in Feb) and will post here as soon as I get a chance -
Hope I can have input from yourself and others here as well
as Jennifer's suggestions before it's "final".
I've been waiting, as suggested, to give it to him and go
to the plan B until this pending land sale is done, since
I will have to see him in person for that.(WH is trying to
get this done before his court date next week). Then, I'd
like to "deliver" it using your great suggestion (look
good, out to dinner, nice as can be).
Thanks all,
Slammed

My situation is alot different then yours. My H told me he had an A for three years and that he ended it. OW will not let go and is now trying to get H put in jail. We had to file an RO on her in Jan and now in April, she filed an RO on H with all kinds of false accusations. She is crazy, and at least H see's this and I do not think I will ever have to worry about him going back to her. So, I am not in your shoes but, I am not out of the woods. OW makes it hard for us to rebuild M because she keeps injecting herself into our lives. Every time she does something, H and I get paranoid and we get scared of what threat she is going to carry out next and sends us a couple of steps backwards.

When H and I reconciled, we took out a home equity loan to pay off cc debt. I did this because the majority of cc's were just in my name and H only one in his name. I wanted to have these cc's cleared just incase our M did not work out. So, I guess I was thinking that I wasn't sure about rebuilding our marriage. Now that we are, I am still glad that I did it. Now we pay less each month and we only have 1 cc that we have together.

Now that you have explained your reasons about the land sale, I am not so opposed to it, but I still believe that it is to pay for H's NEW debt from the A and it would not of been an issue if there had been no affair. Still be careful. If your car and cc are not half the amount of the sale, then can you at least make him give you the difference of half in cash. I truly believe that you should get half and no less. Your M is 50/50 no matter who makes more $. You contribute to a M in more ways then just $, so don't let him snow you with that cr**. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> You deserve that half. The OW does not deserve H to spend any of your money on her. Ok??? Will you think about it?? Seriously think about it?

My Age:41
M-8 yrs
Stay at home Mom
2-kids girl 6 first grade, boy 5 Kindergarten
H-age-40
Medical Profession
D-day-10/05
OW-age-30

Sorry, but I don't believe you are going to do Plan B.

First you said you would Plan B after he moved out. He moved out and you haven't done it. Now you say you're going to Plan B after this financial business is taken care of. What is going to be the next excuse?

If you want to hang in limbo forever, that's your choice.

Em

I believe you'll do Plan B, Slammed..

It's a real hard decision for some of us...

Very hard to do INDEED but I believe that you can and you will do it...

WORK ON IT!!! BUILD UP YOUR COURAGE!!!

Talk to you next week....

I kept falling (off of Plan B- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but kept getting right back up on the horse..and look where I am today...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well guys I think I've gone to "Plan B" tonight, and the way
I feel right now, would just as soon go to D.

After things that have happened tonight, I feel like it's
been the "last straw" and don't know that I have the energy,
courage, or even desire to keep trying to save this.
It's very hard for me to say this because I've SO believed
that the H I knew, married, and have loved so much was still there and would be able to return one of these days,
but now I feel like maybe he's just too far gone, too many
"issues", too much mental illness, and beyond the reach of
even my loving him, believing in him and constant prayers.

Last night when I spoke to WH, I told him his car insurance
bill was here and needed to be mailed in order to be on
time. He asked that I go ahead and send it, and let him
know the amount so he could put that money in the checking
account. (His pay goes into his business account, then he
transfers money over to our joint checking, as needed, for
bills). We did not talk today, so about 930pm I decided
to call him to tell him the amount so he could transfer the
money. Well, I called his cell phone, and just as I thought
it was going over to voicemail, it was answered...BY OW !
I was so surprised that I looked at the phone to see if I
had dialed the wrong number, but then realized it was her.
After quickly saying "hello" a couple of times, she hung up.

I sat there for a moment stunned, and then it just seemed
to all hit me at once- everything from all the lies WH has
told all this time, to the disrespect he has shown to me
and our marriage, to him choosing to be with a trashy, low
class person like OW, and I just suddenly felt nothing but
emptiness and sadness, like there's nothing left to save.

Called a girlfriend a few minutes later (she has been my
lifesaver through all this mess !) and while talking got
three calls from WH's number. Wasn't from his cell phone
though, it was from the phone right at the house, and I'm
sure it was OW.

I don't think that WH would ever have OW answer his cell phone, so my bet is that WH had fallen asleep with his cell
still on, and OW answered it to see who was calling.
(due to the bipolar meds he takes before bedtime, he does
sleep quite heavily and I have seen him sleep right thru
a ringing phone)
As OW has always been very paranoid, I'm sure she wanted
to see who was calling, so answered his phone, and then
called back to see who it was too.

Know it doesn't necessarily mean that OW has moved in the
house, but just knowing she's there, in the house that just
two months ago WH and I talked about being our new home, and
knowing she's there with OUR furniture and maybe even in
OUR bed makes me feel sick.

Calls stopped about an hour ago, but I'm sure there must
have been some "fireworks" at their end. Of course, I'm
sure WH probably quickly "smoothed it over" by saying I
was just calling to talk about finances or something like
that- certainly wouldn't want her to know that he normally
calls me daily, have been meeting for dinner, go to IC
together, went on a trip in Feb, I'd been at the house,
etc. ! Don't really care though- just feel right now like
they both are lying, cheating CREEPS who deserve each other.

I'm sure WH will be calling tomorrow, probably mad AT ME
for calling and causing "drama" at their end. I'd like to
tell him how it made me feel but know it probably would just bounce off the "fog" and make no difference anyway.

As you know I have been working on the PBL and am waiting
for a reply and suggestions back from Jennifer at MB.
Also, had been suggested to me that I wait until we do the
closing on our land sale next week, so I wouldn't have any
reason to have to see WH. However, with this happening
tonight, I'd like to just go straight to PB now, unless
you all think it would be a bad idea.
Should I basically say the "PBL" over the phone, then follow
up with the letter ? Try to avoid all contact with WH until
letter is ready and then give it to him ?? or, any other
ideas ?

Please pray for me, I'm really at end of my rope.
Thanks,
Slammed

Oh Boy, ok first take a deep breath. We all see that you cannot go on like this. OW is acting like she is his W and you are the OW. This has to stop now. Tell your H right now that this is the last straw and that you just cannot deal with them right now. Do plan B now, I implore you, just for your own sanity. What H is doing is awful and I can understand your feelings of wanting to give up. I think H needs this wake up call and I think you need a break from him as well. Can you and will you be able to have NC with H?? I hope they get into a fight, but he has no right to blame you for it. You didn't even talk to OW. He is going to be left with her and he is not going to like it. He will try to talk you out of it, but stay strong. Hang in there. Tomorrow will be better.

Thanks, Beauty
Was so exhausted and upset after writing last night that I
just went on to bed and just saw your message this morning.
At least there were no more calls so I was able to get some
sleep, but I'm exhausted this morning and it'll be a long
day.
My thought as I woke up was pretty much what you said- when
ready today I will talk to WH and just tell him her being
there and his apparently continued lies are "the last straw", that OW is the "OW", not ME and that I won't deal
with him anymore. Then, I'll finish up the PBL and can
mail it to him. Other than the land sale closing which
is supposed to be next week, I shouldn't need to see WH
and I think I can do that with just being there, signing
and leaving quickly and very little interaction.

Must get ready for work now, but will try to figure out
what I'd like to say to WH today so I'll have it ready
"in my head". Today when I think of WH I just see a very
empty "shell" of a person, so addicted that he's like a
puppet on a string to OW, and it's all very pathetic.

Thanks for the support. Will post as soon as I can later.
Slammed

Why not just go a whole 24 hours without talking...
or 36

Get a big bouqet of flowers for yourself today and have a friend write on a card
It was nice talking with you
and leave them next to his mail.....

if you come home and he's there...
go in and change and leave....

make sure your home computer is safe and clear...change or set up passwords

what the heck would he be MAD at YOU for for calling him..
don't even think about discussing that..
if he calls today..take his call and say..

oh I am too busy right now...can you call back later...

and do it each time he calls and after work go to voice mail.....

let him stew

ARK

Thanks, Ark~
I'm not in any hurry to talk to WH, just wanted to be ready
"in my head" with what to say/do in case he called first
thing today to try to lie his way "out of trouble".
He's not called so far, however, and I realized awhile ago
that he may not even know that anything happened, unless
OW made a big fuss about who was calling/why I would call,
etc.
It's possible, that since I assume he was asleep when she
answered his phone, that she called back from the house
phone and he might not even know about it. Hard to imagine
though, that she wouldn't have caused a big uproar since
she's always been so paranoid and questioning.

What I meant about him being mad at me was that everytime
anything has happened with OW they have all been initiated
by her, yet she's managed to "turn it around" to make WH
mad at me and herself the "poor victim". For example, the
first time OW called me back in October, I knew nothing
about her or the A, and she proceeded to tell me all the
details, ask questions about WH, try to get his social so
she could have a "background check" on him, and more, yet
his anger was all at ME, because I had talked to her.
Also, back in Feb when she called our house 13 times in an
hour , cussed me out, and left nasty messages for me, he
still "defended" her saying, "well, why did you even answer
the phone or talk to her at all ?"
So, I'm sure if she wanted to, she'd do the same thing about
my calling last night, saying I had said some horrible or
mean thing to her (even though we never spoke at all) and
that I was constantly calling there or something...
You'd think he "catch on" to her game, but doesn't seem to
"get it" in the FOG. Even while he was back at home and they
were semi "broken up" briefly, she told him that I had
answered his cell when she called and hung up on her. I
have NEVER, EVER answered his cell and wouldn't, but he sure
proceeded to get all over my case, until I pointed out that
his phone had been shut off and on the charger in another
room at the time I supposedly answered it, and then he had
apologized.

I doubt he'll come by the house today, but I won't be home
much because after work I have an oil change and a haircut.
I will get myself some flower though, even if they just
serve to perk me up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Tonight is normally his weekly
volleyball game (work team) so he should be busy too.

Hope to get home in time to post my draft of the PBL, and
maybe I'll hear back from Jennifer today too, so can add
her comments.
Thanks
Slammed

Hi Slammed,

Just chimed in to say hi. I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. When a WS is in his fling he's not living right... therefore not thinking right. No amount of pills, talking, therapy (especially secular therapy) etc...will change that, it will only frustrate and anger you trying to get through to him....seriously!! What I have seen of his therapist is of no help at all, a waste of time and money. But your WH is only there to get out of his DWI situation anyways, to make it look better for him in court, he really isn't seeking help. Plan B is a must, but probably would be good to wait until next week after the land sale is done and you have your half in your hand...don't let him sabatoge that too.

Please read Psalm 35

Commit him into God's hands daily...Trust the Lord to take care of you.


I know what your going through Slammed...sometimes it looks hopeless. Remember you don't deserve the treatment you are getting from WH, it's not your fault and don't let anyone brainwash you to think it is.

And may the wisdom and Peace of God be with you and stay with you Slammed. You will need His peace to sustain you through this.

Blessings,
Lady

Thanks so much Ladysheep,
You are so right that the WS has elected a mode of living
that effects everything they say and do in a negative way.
My WH has certainly gone down a "path of destruction"
since day one of the getting involved with OW, and even
acknowledge this himself during one of his brief periods
of clarity ! (said he didn't even know what he was doing
out on Christmas Eve, gambling and drinking...)

I believe he started IC with the intentions of really
working on his issues and getting help, but as soon as the
A resumed, I believe his focus has changed to using the IC
to try to enable and justify the A, and to try to getting
himself out of legal trouble. I've decided not to go with
him anymore as it just has become too frustrating, seems
pointless, and makes makes me feel worse than before.

I will read the verse you suggested (thanks)and do continue
to pray for and commit WH to God. I have been re-reading the
"Power of a Praying Wife" (Stormie Omartian) and especially
like her reminder that it's "our job to pray for what we
want/need and God's job to figure out how to do it". (not
an exact quote) I'm glad, since I have NO idea how to fix
such a big mess !

Thanks for your continued support and prayers-
Slammed